PreetamSingh

In Defense of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur

65 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

 

No doubt he had access to the info that was available to him. But who is to say all the info that he received is 100% accurate? Panth Prakash it is not Bani that we should take it to be 100% correct, at least I don't consider it to be 100% especially in regards to Baba Banda Singh Bahadur or the reason he gave for Bhai Mani Singh Jee's Shaheedi or even saying that Shaheed Baba Gurbaksh Singh jee first drank Bhang as soon as he woke up in the morning even before Ishnan or Nitnem which even goes against Nihang Maryada that is to do Ishnan then do Nitnem and only after that they eat or drink anything.

 

Some information that Bhangu received is 3rd or 4rd generation hand information especially in regards to Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. How can we take that as 100% accurate? on the other hand one should look at all the information(especially contemporary) from that time period, read it with proper perspective and then come to a conclusion.

Just look at the times of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. How much lies have been spread on him by Hindus and even by Sikhs like claiming he wanted to declare himself as a Guru. We have access to info like we never had in history. So we didn't repeat the mistake with Sant Jee that we made with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in believing the misinformation.

I can't see your analogy with sant ji. In reality I don't see anything truly negative written about Singhs or Banda Singh in PP. I know it isn't 'gospel' but then it also is highly likely to contain truths that aren't available anywhere else. So at worse, it shows how certain sections of the panth at the time had differences with Banda Singh (that's hardly shocking is it). It at least echoes what Bhangu's own family passed down to him about the man, and these perceptions would have probably been shared by others too (obviously not everyone). It plainly describes a certain level of fear towards him (Banda Singh), mostly because of his reputed supernatural powers and perhaps what some contemporary Singhs perceived as a haughty demeanor and independent streak. The former reputation of supernatural abilities is supported by external Moghul sources...

The fear from this force of rebels and the sorceries of that rebellious manikin had so deeply struck the hearts of the commanders of this army that all the time they raised their hands in prayer begging of God that he [banda] come out of his fort (garhi) and take to flight, as on previous occasions, so that the need for employment and the credit and prestige of the [imperial] servants might continue to be on the increase. Ibratnama – Muhammad Qasim (1723 AD). From Sikh History From Persian Sources. Eds. J.S.Grewal & Irfan Habib.

It was repeatedly represented to the Emperor, by both young and old that the ill fated wretch was so expert in magic and sorcery as to exceed in skill the Samaritan sorcerers. Flames of fire would come out of his banners and rockets, and his followers seldom received wounds from swords and spears. From such baseless talk the Emperor, nobles and soldiery were much worried and perplexed. Tazkiratu Salatin Chaghata by Muhammad Hadi Kamwar Khan (1724 AD). From Sikh History From Persian Sources. Eds. J.S.Grewal & Irfan Habib.

....and our own traditions (via Dhadhi Nathmal) plainly tell us that he already had a reputation for harshness when he was heading his dera (hence dasmesh pita being told not to visit  - which we know he did anyway). According to Bhangu, some Singhs were already peeved that Guru ji gave him authority (which led them to snatch away a khanda given to Banda Singh as a symbol of this authority). Bhangu alludes to a conscious attempt at divide and conquer by the moghuls too:

As Banda Singh was alleged to be a very dangerous person,

 

They [the Mughals] should be wary of getting their forces annihilated.

 

Since the Mughals could not afford to break negotiations with Singhs as well,

 

They must keep Singhs in good humour through means fair or foul.

 

Even if Singhs behaved defiantly with them,

 

They should not react angrily to snap their ties with the Singhs.

 

They should keep the Singhs alienated from Banda Singh by offering money,

 

So that the Singhs never get reunited with Banda Singh. (Panth Prakash, page 359)

 

Like I said, certain conservatives are making a mountain out of a molehill in my opinion (and they are free to do so). I don't see anything negative in PP. And if there are certain practices alluded to within, that don't sit well with us today (after a century of anglocentric colonialist brainwashing and dumbing down), it might well be that it is us who are being narrow minded.

I'm not saying it is 100% correct, but some of us have had enough of Sikhs jettisoning or covering up parts of our history and literary legacy that isn't in line with their own perceptions of how SIkhs should be (with that image too, being heavily influenced by British sponsored/patronised interpretations of our faith).  

This is history. It's okay to disagree with each other over a few things. It's not the end of the world. And unless you're stuck in the wonderful fairytale that is canuck land, (i.e. in the US or UK), you'd better recognise that we've got more serious things to deal with around us, that than getting bogged down in historical details with a strange vehemence like we were actually witness to the events we are discussing. 

 

Some of you are major drama queens. Making out like discussing historical texts is some form of vicious malicious nindya. People need to grow up. 

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16 minutes ago, Jonny101 said:

Mata Ji's letter was forged by the Mughals to pacify the Sikh warriors so they would stop following Baba ji. That is why the Sikhs did not stop following Baba ji and continued on waging war against the Mughals.  The only time some Sikhs made the mistake of abandoning Baba ji was in Gurdas Nangal due to binod singh's treachery. So stop putting my Mata ji down to the level of your binod singh. Same with Baba Deep Singh ji. He has given divine Darshan to Sant Gurbachan Singh bhindranwale along with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and other Brahmgiani Shaheeds which further proves his exaulted position among Shaheeds.

 

Baba ji was personally chosen by Guru Sahib to lead the Khalsa. I have much more faith in Guru Sahib's choice than you. 

 

Still it is not too late. You are still alive and I advise you to repent for your sinful Karms on this forum of doing Nindia of a Brahmgiani Mahapurkh. Or else you will regret this dusht Karms in Jamlok but then it will be too late to repent.

Mata jis letter was forged?!! You really are a besharam. I take it Panth Prakash was written by the Mughals... Sant Jarnail Singhs katha was edited by the Mughals...  Bhai Mani Singh was influenced by the Mughals....Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh & others were all tricked by the Mughals but you Jonny & followers of a man made cult are correct.

No one man has ever been chosen to lead the Khalsa.... the Khalsa is lead by Panj Pyare.... Banda Singh was put under the command of Panj Singh. 

Anything I have said is inline with the above named gursikhs.... your nindiya of Baba Binod Singh cannot be backed up by any historical granth or opinion of any mahapurekh. 

You sound like a fanatical Muslim.... when they have nowhere else to run or any answers of credibility they respond with threats of hell & punishment in the afterworld. 

 

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On 7/19/2017 at 11:10 AM, Mahakaal96 said:

Mata jis letter was forged?!! You really are a besharam. I take it Panth Prakash was written by the Mughals... Sant Jarnail Singhs katha was edited by the Mughals...  Bhai Mani Singh was influenced by the Mughals....Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh & others were all tricked by the Mughals but you Jonny & followers of a man made cult are correct.

No one man has ever been chosen to lead the Khalsa.... the Khalsa is lead by Panj Pyare.... Banda Singh was put under the command of Panj Singh. 

Anything I have said is inline with the above named gursikhs.... your nindiya of Baba Binod Singh cannot be backed up by any historical granth or opinion of any mahapurekh. 

You sound like a fanatical Muslim.... when they have nowhere else to run or any answers of credibility they respond with threats of hell & punishment in the afterworld. 

 

If you think Mata ji is a collaborator with the Mughals who were waging a deadly war on the Khalsa then I feel sorry for you. You are just as illogical as the missionaries. Your shamelessness on this thread has inspired me to dedicate this poem to you in regards to doing Nindia of a Gurmukhi Pyara, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur

ਗ਼ਾਫ਼ਲ ਹੋਇਆ ਕਰਦਾ ਨਿੰਦਾ, ਤੂੰ ਹੋਕੇ ਪੂਰਾ ਬੇਸ਼ਰਮ।
ਬੰਦਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਦਾ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਬਣਕੇ, ਨਾ ਕਮਾ ਇਹ ਕੁਕਰਮ।

ਹਠੀ ਹੋਕੇ ਜ਼ਿਦ ਵਿਚ ਖੋਕੇ, ਕਰਦੈਂ ਬੜੀ ਤੂੰ ਗੱਲ ਕੋਝੀ।
ਬੰਦਾ ਸੀ ਬੇਦਾਗ ਹਸਤੀ, ਜ਼ਿਹਨ ਵਿਚ ਲਿਆ ਇਹ ਸੋਝੀ।

ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਤਸੀਹੇ ਝੱਲੇ, ਪਰ 'ਸੀ' ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਇਨ ਕੀਤੀ।
ਐਸੀ ਸ਼ਹਾਦਤ ਕਰੇ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ, ਜੋ ਬੰਦੇ ਤੇ ਹੜਬੀਤੀ।

ਬੇਤਾਜ ਅਮੀਰ ਸੀ ਇਹ ਬੰਦਾ, ਫਿਰ ਭੀ ਰਹੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾਸ ਹੀ।
ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰੇ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤੀ, ਸਿਮਰ ਕਰੇ ਸਾਸ ਗਰਾਸ ਜੀ।

ਕੁਫਰ ਤੋਲਣ ਬਥੇਰੇ ਨਿੰਦਕ, ਪਰ ਸੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਪਾਸ।
ਬੇਮਿਸਾਲ ਸ਼ਹਾਦਤ ਬੰਦੇ ਦੀ, ਜੋ ਇਲਜ਼ਾਮ ਕਰੇ ਸਭ ਨਾਸ।

ਸਵੇਰ ਦਾ ਭੁਲਾ ਸ਼ਾਮੀ ਆਏ, ਨਾ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਉਸਨੂੰ ਭੁੱਲਣਹਾਰਾ।
ਹੁਣ ਤ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਛੱਡਦੇ ਸਿੰਘਾਂ, ਬੰਦੇ ਦਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਕਸ਼ਨਹਾਰਾ।

 

Edited by Jonny101
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1 hour ago, Jonny101 said:

If you think Mata ji is a collaborator with the Mughals who were waging a deadly war on the Khalsa then I feel sorry for you. You are just as illogical as the missionaries. Your shamelessness on this thread has inspired me to dedicate this poem to you in regards to doing Nindia of a Gurmukhi Pyara, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur

ਗ਼ਾਫ਼ਲ ਹੋਇਆ ਕਰਦਾ ਨਿੰਦਾ, ਤੂੰ ਹੋਕੇ ਪੂਰਾ ਬੇਸ਼ਰਮ।
ਬੰਦਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਦਾ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਬਣਕੇ, ਨਾ ਕਮਾ ਇਹ ਕੁਕਰਮ।

ਹਠੀ ਹੋਕੇ ਜ਼ਿਦ ਵਿਚ ਖੋਕੇ, ਕਰਦੇਂ ਬੜੀ ਤੂੰ ਗੱਲ ਕੋਝੀ।
ਬੰਦਾ ਸੀ ਬੇਦਾਗ ਹਸਤੀ, ਜ਼ਿਹਨ ਵਿਚ ਲਿਆ ਇਹ ਸੋਝੀ।

ਤੁਰਕਾਂ ਪਾਸੋਂ ਤਸੀਹੇ ਝੱਲੇ, ਪਰ 'ਸੀ' ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਇਨ ਕੀਤੀ।
ਐਸੀ ਸ਼ਹਾਦਤ ਕਰੇ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ, ਜੋ ਬੰਦੇ ਨੇ ਹੜਬੀਤੀ।

ਬੇਤਾਜ ਅਮੀਰ ਸੀ ਇਹ ਬੰਦਾ, ਫਿਰ ਭੀ ਰਹੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਾਸ ਹੀ।
ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰੇ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤੀ, ਸਿਮਰ ਕਰੇ ਸਾਸ ਗਰਾਸ ਜੀ।

ਕੁਫਰ ਤੋਲਣ ਬਥੇਰੇ ਨਿੰਦਕ, ਪਰ ਸੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਪਾਸ।
ਬੇਮਿਸਾਲ ਸ਼ਹਾਦਤ ਬੰਦੇ ਦੀ, ਜੋ ਇਲਜ਼ਾਮ ਕਰੇ ਸਭ ਨਾਸ।

ਸਵੇਰ ਦਾ ਭੁਲਾ ਸ਼ਾਮੀ ਆਏ, ਨਾ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਉਸਨੂੰ ਭੁੱਲਣਹਾਰਾ।
ਹੁਣ ਤ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਛੱਡਦੇ ਸਿੰਘਾਂ, ਬੰਦੇ ਦਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਬਕਸ਼ਨਹਾਰਾ।

 

Once again, you show your lack of knowledge when it comes to raj neeti.... I take Guru Gobind Singh Ji was a collaborator with Mughals as well when they helped Bahadur Shah.... you really have no understanding of even the basics of raj neeti.

Do you consider Sant Jarnail Singh a nindak of Banda Bahadur? He done katha, links to which can be found on this thread. In that katha he says Banda wanted to be revered as Guru.... so is Sant Jarnail Singh a nindak? 

Giani Gian Singh wrote about matas hukamnama..... is he a nindak too?

Rattan Singh Bhangu, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Mani Singh & Nawab Kapur Singh must all be nindaks according to your logic.

Its a shame your parents named you 'Jonny',... but didn't use a 'jonny' on the night they copulated leading to your conception.

Edited by Mahakaal96
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3 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Once again, you show your lack of knowledge when it comes to raj neeti.... I take Guru Gobind Singh Ji was a collaborator with Mughals as well when they helped Bahadur Shah.... you really have no understanding of even the basics of raj neeti.

Do you consider Sant Jarnail Singh a nindak of Banda Bahadur? He done katha, links to which can be found on this thread. In that katha he says Banda wanted to be revered as Guru.... so is Sant Jarnail Singh a nindak? 

Giani Gian Singh wrote about matas hukamnama..... is he a nindak too?

Rattan Singh Bhangu, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Mani Singh & Nawab Kapur Singh must all be nindaks according to your logic.

Its a shame your parents named you 'Jonny,... but didn't use a jonny on the night they copulated leading to your conception.

Bimbo, was bahadur shah waging a war with Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji when bahadur shah made an alliance with Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji?  Guru Sahib didn't go to him for an alliance. 

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27 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

.Its a shame your parents named you 'Jonny',... but didn't use a 'jonny' on the night they copulated leading to your conception.

It is one thing to have a discussion with light jokes but it would be appreciated if you don't mention my parents in this discussion in such a vulgar manner. Anyway, I'm done with this.

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32 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Bimbo, was bahadur shah waging a war with Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji when bahadur shah made an alliance with Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji?  Guru Sahib didn't go to him for an alliance. 

Where did I say mahraj went to him for an alliance.... wannabe 'akali' fauj doing his usual of making things up out of thin air again.

The point was made to show how raj neeti works... something most of you know absolutely nothing about. 

Bahadur Shah came to Guru Sahib for help... just as the Mughals came to Mata Sundri Ji wanting to establish a truce, this does not make them collaborators with the Mughals.

Edited by Mahakaal96
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5 minutes ago, Jonny101 said:

It is one thing to have a discussion with light jokes but it would be appreciated if you don't mention my parents in this discussion in such a vulgar manner. Anyway, I'm done with this.

I'd appreciate it if discussions could be had with respect... especially when those discussions & opinions are based on our historical granths & opinions of great mahapurekhs.... instead of words like 'nindak' being flung around so loosely. 

 

Edited by Mahakaal96
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2 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Where did I say mahraj went to him for an alliance.... wannabe 'akali' fauj doing his usual of making things up out of thin air again.

The point was made to show how raj neeti works... something most of you know absolutely nothing about. 

Bahadur Shah came to Guru Sahib for help... just as the Mughals came to Mata Sundri Ji wanting to establish a truce, this does not make them collaborators with the Mughals.

You must have been dropped on your head several times.  Learn how to bring up comparable situations.  The difference between bahadur shah approaching Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji is that Guru Sahib was not in war with bahadur shah.  Bahadur shah was kicked out of mughals army by his brother for the seat of the king as their father had died.  Yet in the case of Banda Singh Bahadur, he was waging war with the mughals.  Hence they are not comparable.  Blondes even know how to compare and contrast.  In your case, you don't wear a dastar as a Sikh but as a bandage for being dropped on your head too many times.

Edited by Akalifauj
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2 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

I'd appreciate it if discussions could be had with respect... especially when those discussions & opinions are based on our historical granths & opinions of great mahapurekhs.... instead of words like 'nindak' being flung around so loosely. 

 

Stfu.....you have been trying to intimidate poster jonny for the past several days.  You are a nindak.  He's not like your uncle friend, moni, barking like a wild dog all day everyday on this forum.

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i just love threads like this.

 

tumblr_om2pcdjdXS1w0433po1_400.gif

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1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

You must have been dropped on your head several times.  Learn how to bring up comparable situations.  The difference between bahadur shah approaching Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji is that Guru Sahib was not in war with bahadur shah.  Bahadur shah was kicked out of mughals army by his brother for the seat of the king as their father had died.  Yet in the case of Banda Singh Bahadur, he was waging war with the mughals.  Hence they are not comparable.  Blondes even know how to compare and contrast.  In your case, you don't wear a dastar as a Sikh but as a bandage for being dropped on your head too many times.

I take it Mata Sundri Ji was at war directly with Mughals then?..... stupid clown.

Bahadur Shah may not have been in a direct war with Guru Sahib but he was still a Mughal... the son of Aurangzeb no less. Mata Sundri Ji was not in direct war with the Mughals but she was still the mehal of Guru Sahib.

The bottom line is you know nothing about raj neeti.

In your case, you wear a dastar because mummy & daddy told you to. Your attempting to grow a beard... for the soul purpose of wanting to cover up that mess you have to call your face.

Edited by Mahakaal96
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47 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Stfu.....you have been trying to intimidate poster jonny for the past several days.  You are a nindak.  He's not like your uncle friend, moni, barking like a wild dog all day everyday on this forum.

If relying on granth of Rattan Singh Bhangu, katha of Sant Jarnail Singh, hukamnama of Mata Sundri Ji, commentary by Gian Singh, historical figures like Baba Deep Singh, Nawab Kapur Singh & Baba Mani Singh amounts to intimidation then so be it.... I suppose threatening people with hell & punishments in the afterworld for relying on the above named gursikhs must be a more gurmat approach then?!

I don't mind debating/arguing with people like Jonny... his opinions may be different to mine but I still know his opinion comes from somewhere genuine...... you on the other hand are a different story..... your just an infant who unfortunately only has 2 brain cells.... 1 of which you urinate through. No more replies to you

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1 hour ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Your attempting to grow a beard... for the soul purpose of wanting to cover up that mess you have to call your face.

I'm not getting involved or taking sides but on this statement I'd like to add this to the conversation.

tumblr_oa1qclq9N61tuwbfjo1_1280.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Mahakaal96 said:

I take it Mata Sundri Ji was at war directly with Mughals then?..... stupid clown.

Who else was the khalsa panth in war with at this time.  It was mughals dumb *ss.  Members put up your hand if you believe the khalsa Panth as a whole was in war with the Chinese......only one full retard put up his hand...

Bahadur Shah may not have been in a direct war with Guru Sahib but he was still a Mughal... the son of Aurangzeb no less.

Such a retard.  Full retard.  He was betrayed by the mughals forces at command of his brother.  This made him an enemy of the mughals. Aurangzeb was his father.  Oooooo look the full retard knows how to read.  Do you want a lollipop.  Don't raise your hand this time airhead.....

Mata Sundri Ji was not in direct war with the Mughals but she was still the mehal of Guru Sahib.

The whole khalsa Panth was in war with the mughals.  Any full retard can see this clearly.  Loosen up your bandage and maybe you will get two lollipops.

The bottom line is you know nothing about raj neeti.

You can't even read correctly or compare or contrast.  A full retard like you can never make the assessment of any history let alone say who knows what.

In your case, you wear a dastar because mummy & daddy told you to. Your attempting to grow a beard... for the soul purpose of wanting to cover up that mess you have to call your face.

Even your insults suck.  Damn.  Pick up a book and start reading.  Maybe you will learn how to form sentences.

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