PreetamSingh

In Defense of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur

65 posts in this topic

On ‎13‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 3:33 AM, PreetamSingh said:

ਬਾਬਾ ਬੰਦਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਸਿਖ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਸੁਪਰੀਮ ਲੀਡਰ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਖੁਦ ਆਪ ਇਸ ਅਹੁਦੇ ਤੇ ਸਥਾਪਤ ਕੀਤਾ ਸੀ। ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਵਾਰ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਰਾਜ ਕਾਇਮ ਕੀਤਾ ਸੀ ਅਤੇ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਜਾਚ ਸਿਖਾਈ। ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਹੀਦੀ ਵੀ ਬੇਮਿਸਾਲ ਸੀ ਪਰ ਅਫਸੋਸ ਦੀ ਗਲ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਹਸਤੀ ਉਤੇ ਕਈ ਅਣਜਾਣ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਵਲੋਂ ਗਲਤ ਇਲਜ਼ਾਮ ਲਾ ਕੇ ਚਿਕੜ ਸੁਟਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਅਸੀਂ ਇਸ ਵੀਡੀਓ ਵਿਚ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਤੇ ਲਾਏ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਤਮਾਮ ਇਲਜ਼ਾਮਾਂ ਦਾ ਖੰਡਨ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਇਹ ਸਾਬਤ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਉਹ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਅਤੇ ਉਚਕੋਟੀ ਦੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭਗਤ ਸਨ। ਸਾਡੀ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਵੀਡੀਓ ਨੂੰ ਧਿਆਨ ਨਾਲ ਸੁਣੋ ਅਤੇ ਹੋਰਨਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਸ਼ੇਅਰ ਕਰੋ ਤਾਂ ਕੇ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਬਣਦਾ ਸਥਾਨ ਸਿਖ ਜਗਤ ਵਿਚ ਨਸੀਬ ਹੋਵੇ। 
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Baba Banda Singh jee Bahadur was the first supreme leader of the Sikhs and he was appointed to this position by Guru Sahib jee Himself.  Baba jee uprooted the 800 year old foreign rule from Punjab and established the Khalsa empire for the first time.  He was the greatest leader that Sikhs ever had but unfortunately, falling prey to the wrong propaganda by the government of that time, some Sikhs place wrong allegations on him.  In this video, we refute all the baseless allegations against Baba jee and prove that Baba jee was the greatest leader the Sikhs ever had.  Please watch this video carefully and also share it with others so that they too can benefit from it.  
 If you have any questions or if you have any suggestions, kindly contact us at +1-647-771-5359.  

If you like the videos, please share them liberally and also don’t forget to subscribe to our youtube channel.
 

 

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Thank you so much for this video. Very nicely presented. Many thanks for proving the innocence of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur ji.

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6 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

It's the same with Baba Deep Singh ji. Unfortunately I can't ask Mr. Bhangu about his omissions, but I appreciate what he did leave us. 

Here is another example.  On sikhawareness forum moni fanatically tried to force other to accept goats story around punj pyare.  Even after moni was told of Bhai jeevan singhs written account of what actually happened on 1699.  He tried very hard to dismiss Bhai jeevan singhs account.  The other poster said the samething I am saying today.  The other poster called him out.  How can your account be accepted?  On what merit and authencity.  This extremist could not answer the question and he ran away with his tail between his legs.

 

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9 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

If reading what another Singh historian wrote about 200 years ago is enough to 'hurt' a Sikh, they must be really weak minded. 

Stop crying at every little thing for your own sake. 

This shows you are very stupid to accept everything that is written down 200 years ago.  200 years from now dolly aka moni will be your name because your grand child will learn from Mr. Stupid to accept everything written.   On the other hand Gurmukhs have done the hard work of cross checking and going with a more accurate account.  

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Moni has been whining on these forums for more than 20 years.  Its always the same argument that has been shown to be proven wrong that he will bring up.  Always attacking the poster and never providing authentic accurate writings.  He's a internet warrior and a troll for last 20 odd years.  The very labels he is, he tries to put on others.  UK sangat need to meet this guy in person and have a face to face debate and record it.  Expose the troll for all to see.

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18 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Baba Binod Singh didn't disobey anyone, he was never under the command of Banda, rather, as per the wishes of Guru Mahraj Banda was under the command of Panj Singh, one of whom was Baba Binod Singh. If anyone disobeyed, it was Banda when he considered himself above the Khalsa.

Nawab Kapur Singh and the panth accepted jageer from the Mughals to, I suppose you consider him as a 'baba Santa singh of his time'. 

The bottom line is, you know nothing about raj neeti.

Answer @13Mirch, do you want him to put up the audio clip in which Sant Jarnail Singh agrees with the perception of Banda as depicted by Rattan Singh Bhangu? 

Why is there a hukamnama from Mata Sundri Ji commanding all sikhs to abandon Banda because he had abandoned gurmat? 

According to you, Baba Binod Singh was wrong, Mata Sundri Ji was wrong, Rattan Singh Bhangu was wrong & Sant Jarnail Singh was wrong..... but you and your modern historians are right..... clown!!

What are you talking about? Binod Singh was the only one of the Panj Pyaras who left the councel of the Punj Pyaras and abandoned the Singhs. All the other 4 of the 5 Pyaras remained with Baba Ji including Binod SIngh's OWN SON!

Binod Singh had contacts with the Mughals. He then recieved a Jagir from them for his treachery. This treacherous person then uses his influence with his Mughals friends to free his son from death. So this traiter not only broke ranks and disobeyed his leader, he left the councel of the Panj Pyaras, he saves his own son while letting all the other Singh die.

On the other hand, Baba Jee was a Bedaagh Shaksee`at (a blot less personality). He was personally handpicked by Gurus Sahib. He lived and for his Guru's commands. He killed the killers of the Sahibzade, he created the first Sikh state and uprooted 800 years of Muslim rule. He gave land to the peasants who were living like serfs. And if that isn't enough, he died such a unimaginable torturous death but did not waver one bit. He had his own son's beating heart shoved into her mouth  How can you compare this to the traitor who saved his son and accepted Jagir from the Mughals!

I will defend Baba Jee as long as I have swaas in my body. You are doing Nindya of this Brahmgiani Mahapursh. You have no idea how much Paap you are putting on your head by doing this.

Edited by Jonny101
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16 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think it is very wrong to think that people somehow diminish or disrespect Banda Singh Bahadhur ji because of the contents of PP. I certainly don't. 

What PP gives us is one warts and all perspective of events. It's invaluable as a Sikh source and instead of of white-washing everything, shows us that even respected and awesome leaders like Banda Singh faced their own complex issues during their leadership. 

I respect Panth Prakash but I don't hold it's writing as infallible. I don't agree with Bhangu on some points besides Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. I don't agree with him that Bhai Mani Singh Jee got Shaheed due to his "sin" against Gurbani.

 

But disagreement doesn't mean PP doesn't hold a special place in Sikh history. PP gives us great info about our Bazurgs even if sometimes it is not accurate on some points but still it should be studied by all Sikhs along with Sooraj Prakash Granth.

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1 hour ago, Jonny101 said:

I respect Panth Prakash but I don't hold it's writing as infallible. I don't agree with Bhangu on some points besides Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. I don't agree with him that Bhai Mani Singh Jee got Shaheed due to his "sin" against Gurbani.

 

But disagreement doesn't mean PP doesn't hold a special place in Sikh history. PP gives us great info about our Bazurgs even if sometimes it is not accurate on some points but still it should be studied by all Sikhs along with Sooraj Prakash Granth.

Its the same old post with this dolly character.  He's been a broken record for 20 odd years.  He has not expanded his ability to think since 3rd grade.  Always grasping at broken straws to insult the Khalsa Panth.  Look at one of his post here where he is trying to imply Baba Deep Singh ji was wrong.  It never ends with moni.  

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3 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

What are you talking about? Binod Singh was the only one of the Panj Pyaras who left the councel of the Punj Pyaras and abandoned the Singhs. All the other 4 of the 5 Pyaras remained with Baba Ji including Binod SIngh's OWN SON!

Binod Singh had contacts with the Mughals. He then recieved a Jagir from them for his treachery. This treacherous person then uses his influence with his Mughals friends to free his son from death. So this traiter not only broke ranks and disobeyed his leader, he left the councel of the Panj Pyaras, he saves his own son while letting all the other Singh die.

On the other hand, Baba Jee was a Bedaagh Shaksee`at (a blot less personality). He was personally handpicked by Gurus Sahib. He lived and for his Guru's commands. He killed the killers of the Sahibzade, he created the first Sikh state and uprooted 800 years of Muslim rule. He gave land to the peasants who were living like serfs. And if that isn't enough, he died such a unimaginable torturous death but did not waver one bit. He had his own son's beating heart shoved into her mouth  How can you compare this to the traitor who saved his son and accepted Jagir from the Mughals!

I will defend Baba Jee as long as I have swaas in my body. You are doing Nindya of this Brahmgiani Mahapursh. You have no idea how much Paap you are putting on your head by doing this.

It was actually Mata Sundri Ji who negotiated peace with the Mughals. It was Mata who secured the release of Baba Binod Singhs son... Baba Binod Singh was from the family of Guru Amar Das.

If Bandai Khalsa were the ones in the right then when Baba Mani Singh placed two pieces of paper in the sarovar at Harimandir Sahib, one for Tat Khalsa & the other for Bandai Khalsa & did ardas to mahraj to show which side were the true sons of Guru Sahib & the upholders of gurmat, mahraj chose Tat Khalsa which was being led by Baba Binod Singh.... Mahrajs hukam went in favour of Tat Khalsa & Baba Binod Singh!

You just can't accept you are out of your depth on this one, have made a massive error in judgement & are too spineless to apologise..... at the moment you stand on one side with your opinion.... anything I have said is based on Rattan Singh Bhangu, Hukamnama of Mata Sundri Ji, katha of Sant Jarnail Singh, Baba Mani Singh decision at Harminder Sahib. Anything I have said or implied about Banda Singh is based on the writings/opinions of the above maha gursikhs so how I've done nindiya eludes me. You on the other hand have made accusations about Baba Binod Singh that no mahapursh or any historical granth would validate.... carry on....

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Someone should post pages from panth Parkash regarding Banda Bahadur on this topic for all to see.

 

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1 hour ago, Destruction said:

Someone should post pages from panth Parkash regarding Banda Bahadur on this topic for all to see.

 

Yeah and some should post pages of Dr Ganda Singh's book disproving them

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4 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

It was actually Mata Sundri Ji who negotiated peace with the Mughals. It was Mata who secured the release of Baba Binod Singhs son... Baba Binod Singh was from the family of Guru Amar Das.

If Bandai Khalsa were the ones in the right then when Baba Mani Singh placed two pieces of paper in the sarovar at Harimandir Sahib, one for Tat Khalsa & the other for Bandai Khalsa & did ardas to mahraj to show which side were the true sons of Guru Sahib & the upholders of gurmat, mahraj chose Tat Khalsa which was being led by Baba Binod Singh.... Mahrajs hukam went in favour of Tat Khalsa & Baba Binod Singh!

You just can't accept you are out of your depth on this one, have made a massive error in judgement & are too spineless to apologise..... at the moment you stand on one side with your opinion.... anything I have said is based on Rattan Singh Bhangu, Hukamnama of Mata Sundri Ji, katha of Sant Jarnail Singh, Baba Mani Singh decision at Harminder Sahib. Anything I have said or implied about Banda Singh is based on the writings/opinions of the above maha gursikhs so how I've done nindiya eludes me. You on the other hand have made accusations about Baba Binod Singh that no mahapursh or any historical granth would validate.... carry on....

Mata ji had nothing to do with Binod Singh's son being released. That was all Binod Singh doing. The traiters had no real reason for doing what they did so they are tarnishing the name of Mata ji by trying to connect her to their treachery to Baba ji. Unlike Puratan times, today we have a lot of info regarding what happened back then and the lies are finally being exposed. 

 

And the so called difference between the two groups has also been disproved  by historians and even in the video by the OP.

 

Baba ji was, is and always will be held in high regard by Guru Sahib.  No amount of slander will be able to change that. Only thing is, I am concerned for your spirit and how much punishment it will go through for the Paaps it is currently adding up for the slander against a Brahmgiani.

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31 minutes ago, Jonny101 said:

Mata ji had nothing to do with Binod Singh's son being released. That was all Binod Singh doing. The traiters had no real reason for doing what they did so they are tarnishing the name of Mata ji by trying to connect her to their treachery to Baba ji. Unlike Puratan times, today we have a lot of info regarding what happened back then and the lies are finally being exposed. 

 

And the so called difference between the two groups has also been disproved  by historians and even in the video by the OP.

 

Baba ji was, is and always will be held in high regard by Guru Sahib.  No amount of slander will be able to change that. Only thing is, I am concerned for your spirit and how much punishment it will go through for the Paaps it is currently adding up for the slander against a Brahmgiani.

I think you need to understand what slander is... then apply that understanding to what you are saying about Baba Binod Singh.

I take it Mata Sundri Ji was committing slander when she issued a hukamnama against Banda Singh?

I take it Sant Jarnail Singh was committing slander when he did katha on Banda Singh inline with Panth Prakash.

I take it Rattan Singh Bhangu, the grandson of Mehtab Singh who killed Massa Rangar was committing slander when he wrote Panth Prakash.

 

P.S Thank you for your concern towards my 'spirit'.... it's appreciated but I'd rather focus on my 'soul' 

 

Edited by Mahakaal96

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On 15/07/2017 at 9:23 AM, Mahakaal96 said:

 There's hukamname from Mata Sundar Ji telling the sangat to not follow Banda anymore as he went of the path of gurmat.

 

Is this hukumnama or a translation of it available to read online anywhere? If not a book where it is written?

Thanks

 

On 15/07/2017 at 9:55 AM, 13Mirch said:

 I put up an audio clip in which Sant Jarnail Singh Ji concurs with Bhangu's perception of Baba Banda Singh. Want me to put it up one more time?

 

Yes please. Thanks. I heard it a long time ago (poss 10 years) but would rather not have to trawl through all my tapes to find it.

 

On 15/07/2017 at 11:25 AM, Jonny101 said:

Why would I respect the person who disobeyed his leader at a critical time, got Jageer from the Mughals and then used his power and influence to get his son freed from Mughal captivity while letting hundreds of Singh's get Shaheed in Delhi. He was a Santa Singh of his time period. 

 

I never knew that Baaj Singh survived Delhi. Had always thought he was shaheed. If you consider the sakhi of the Sikh boy who was shaheed (even though his mother protested that he wasn't a Sikh) it seems a little weird that Baaj Singh would prefer to survival rather than shaheedi with his comrades.

 

 

16 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

What are you talking about? Binod Singh was the only one of the Panj Pyaras who left the councel of the Punj Pyaras and abandoned the Singhs. All the other 4 of the 5 Pyaras remained with Baba Ji including Binod SIngh's OWN SON!

 

Where are you reading/hearing that 4 of the 5 Pyaras remained with Baba Ji?

 

16 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

 So this traiter not only broke ranks and disobeyed his leader, he left the councel of the Panj Pyaras,

 

From what I have been told. at Gurdas Nangal, there was a difference of opinion over tactics. The same scenario at Anandpur Sahib when some Sikhs were of the opinion to leave the Qilla and fight the enemy/escape. Baba Binod Singh Ji was of the opinion to face the enemy and fight whereas Baba Banda Singh wanted to hold out against their seige. Those that wanted to try and escape the seige/fight the turks left with Baba Binod Singh but they were not held back by Baba Banda Bahadur either. He gave all the Sikhs there the choice to remain or chance their luck.

 

16 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

I respect Panth Prakash but I don't hold it's writing as infallible. I don't agree with Bhangu on some points besides Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. I don't agree with him that Bhai Mani Singh Jee got Shaheed due to his "sin" against Gurbani.

 

Bhai Rattan Singh Bhangu is not the only writer to have written this. BHai Kesar Singh Chibber has written the same in "Bansawalinama".

 

8 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

Yeah and some should post pages of Dr Ganda Singh's book disproving them

 

It would be great if someone could. I would like to read them as well. Thanks.

 

If anyone wishes to listen to ongoing katha of Panth Parkash here is the link:

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Nihang_Giani_Sher_Singh_(Ambala_wale)/Pracheen_Panth_Parkash_Katha/Nihang.Giani.Sher.Singh.(Ambala.wale)--Pracheen.Panth.Parkash.Katha.-.Part.01.-.2014-10-01.-.Sri.Guru.Panth.Prakash.01.mp3

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18 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

Yeah and some should post pages of Dr Ganda Singh's book disproving them

Ganda Singh had nothing substantial. Prof. Puran Singh, Dr. Trilochan Singh and S. Kapur Singh often criticized his shallow reasoning. He attempts to argue, in A Short History of the Sikhs vol. i, that Guru Gobind Singh Ji perceived the Khalsa and Mughals to be parallel in the socio-political field given that both were creations of Sri Akal Purakh Vaheguru. S. Kapur Singh and Dr. Trilochan Singh, both, disprove this nation by analyzing the original verse in the Bachittra-Natak which postulates that those who discard truth and morality often become prey for politico-religious state tyranny. 

Edited by 13Mirch

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9 hours ago, chatanga said:

 

Is this hukumnama or a translation of it available to read online anywhere? If not a book where it is written?

Thanks

 

 

Yes please. Thanks. I heard it a long time ago (poss 10 years) but would rather not have to trawl through all my tapes to find it.

 

 

I never knew that Baaj Singh survived Delhi. Had always thought he was shaheed. If you consider the sakhi of the Sikh boy who was shaheed (even though his mother protested that he wasn't a Sikh) it seems a little weird that Baaj Singh would prefer to survival rather than shaheedi with his comrades.

 

 

 

Where are you reading/hearing that 4 of the 5 Pyaras remained with Baba Ji?

 

 

From what I have been told. at Gurdas Nangal, there was a difference of opinion over tactics. The same scenario at Anandpur Sahib when some Sikhs were of the opinion to leave the Qilla and fight the enemy/escape. Baba Binod Singh Ji was of the opinion to face the enemy and fight whereas Baba Banda Singh wanted to hold out against their seige. Those that wanted to try and escape the seige/fight the turks left with Baba Binod Singh but they were not held back by Baba Banda Bahadur either. He gave all the Sikhs there the choice to remain or chance their luck.

 

 

Bhai Rattan Singh Bhangu is not the only writer to have written this. BHai Kesar Singh Chibber has written the same in "Bansawalinama".

 

 

It would be great if someone could. I would like to read them as well. Thanks.

 

If anyone wishes to listen to ongoing katha of Panth Parkash here is the link:

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Nihang_Giani_Sher_Singh_(Ambala_wale)/Pracheen_Panth_Parkash_Katha/Nihang.Giani.Sher.Singh.(Ambala.wale)--Pracheen.Panth.Parkash.Katha.-.Part.01.-.2014-10-01.-.Sri.Guru.Panth.Prakash.01.mp3

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Jarnail_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/41_Questions_with_Sant_Jarnail_Singh_Ji_Bhindrawalae/Sant.Jarnail.Singh.(Bhindra.wale)--41.Questions.with.Sant.Jarnail.Singh.Ji.Bhindrawalae.Part.01.mp3

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On 7/16/2017 at 6:42 AM, Jonny101 said:

I respect Panth Prakash but I don't hold it's writing as infallible. I don't agree with Bhangu on some points besides Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. I don't agree with him that Bhai Mani Singh Jee got Shaheed due to his "sin" against Gurbani.

 

But disagreement doesn't mean PP doesn't hold a special place in Sikh history. PP gives us great info about our Bazurgs even if sometimes it is not accurate on some points but still it should be studied by all Sikhs along with Sooraj Prakash Granth.

It's unique and we are very lucky to have it. Imagine all those people who don't have such literature like certain tribes in Africa, native Americans etc., various aborigines.

To me the work is a classic. That doesn't mean everything in it will be correct, but it's invaluable as a document that captures contemporary beliefs from an insider perspective.  

I don't get this impulse too many apnay have that results in their getting their knickers in a twist over the contents of historical granths? If it's the idea that our ancestors lived very different lives to us and thought very differently to us today that is unpalatable to modern readers living in relative comfort, that is the height of stupidity. 

I think it's ego too. Certain people take so much pride in certain practices of theirs which they consider very Sikhlike, that when they read about behaviour that goes contrary to this by our own ancestors during a definitive, heroic period of our history - the dissonance is too much for them. 

What if those people are wrong, and Bhangu has put down realities of that time as preserved through oral traditions, including direct family contact. 

Edited by dallysingh101
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On 2017-07-16 at 9:33 AM, Mahakaal96 said:

I think you need to understand what slander is... then apply that understanding to what you are saying about Baba Binod Singh.

I take it Mata Sundri Ji was committing slander when she issued a hukamnama against Banda Singh?

I take it Sant Jarnail Singh was committing slander when he did katha on Banda Singh inline with Panth Prakash.

I take it Rattan Singh Bhangu, the grandson of Mehtab Singh who killed Massa Rangar was committing slander when he wrote Panth Prakash.

 

P.S Thank you for your concern towards my 'spirit'.... it's appreciated but I'd rather focus on my 'soul' 

 

It is just semantics. Forget spirit or soul.

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਫਰਮਾਉਂਦੇ ਨੇ "ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਦੋਖ ਮਹਿ ਦੋਖ" ਸੋ ਤੇਰੀ ਜਿਹੜੀ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਇਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਹੈ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਇਸਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਣਾ ਕਿਓਂਕਿ  "ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਦਾ ਨਿਰਲਪ"

ਪਰ ਹਾਂ , ਜੇ ਫਰਕ ਪੈਣਾ ਤਾ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਪਊ ਜਦ ਤੇਰਾ ਵਾਹ ਜਮਦੂਤਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਪਿਆ|| ਪਰ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਵਖਤ ਸਮਝ ਆਊਗੀ ਜਦ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਵਰਗੇ ਸੰਤ ਮਹਾਪੁਰਸ਼ ਦੀ  ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਦੇ ਜੁਰਮ ਵਿਚ ਤਸੀਹੇ ਝੱਲਣੇ ਪੈਣੇ.

it is one thing if a person innocently does Nindia of a Brahmgiani like Babaji after reading Panth Prakash. But when a person is made aware of the slander against Baba Jee in Panth Prakash and still insists upon continuing his Nindia then he is responsible for his own torture he will endure in Yamlok from Jamdoots.

Edited by Jonny101

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On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎16 at 5:59 PM, chatanga said:

 

I never knew that Baaj Singh survived Delhi. Had always thought he was shaheed. If you consider the sakhi of the Sikh boy who was shaheed (even though his mother protested that he wasn't a Sikh) it seems a little weird that Baaj Singh would prefer to survival rather than shaheedi with his comrades.

 

 Bhai Baaj Singh ji was not the son of Binod Singh. binod singh's son's name was Kahn Singh Ji. But both Baaj Singh Jee and Bhai Kahn Singh Jee were part of the Panj Pyaras and remained with Baba Jee and did not break ranks and abandon Baba Jee in Gurdas Nangal as binod singh did. The fact that his own son Kahn Singh ji stayed with Baba jee shows how wrong binod singh was in this matter. Later when all the Singhs were caught by the Mughals and being taken to Delhi binod singh used his influence with his Mughal buddies to free his son from captivity. Just look at the difference here. Baba Jee had a chance to save his infant son from a cruel death but didn't out of khalsa principle and he became a Shaheed along with his son. While that binod singh saves his son. The other other remaining three of the Panj Pyaras including Bhai Baaj Singh Ji became Shaheed with Baba Ji and no doubt are in Sach Khand. I will much rather listen to those Shaheeds than binod singh who spread these lies against Baba Jee in order to justify his treachery

Edited by Jonny101

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On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎17 at 3:17 AM, 13Mirch said:

Ganda Singh had nothing substantial. Prof. Puran Singh, Dr. Trilochan Singh and S. Kapur Singh often criticized his shallow reasoning. He attempts to argue, in A Short History of the Sikhs vol. i, that Guru Gobind Singh Ji perceived the Khalsa and Mughals to be parallel in the socio-political field given that both were creations of Sri Akal Purakh Vaheguru. S. Kapur Singh and Dr. Trilochan Singh, both, disprove this nation by analyzing the original verse in the Bachittra-Natak which postulates that those who discard truth and morality often become prey for politico-religious state tyranny. 

On the contrary, Dr Ganda Singh's book is all substantial with references from Persian and Mughal sources which are contemporary and did not make the mistake of only relying on Panth Prakash (written during the times of M Ranjit SIngh) for all his info like some members here on this forum

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2 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

On the contrary, Dr Ganda Singh's book is all substantial with references from Persian and Mughal sources which are contemporary and did not make the mistake of only relying on Panth Prakash (written during the times of M Ranjit SIngh) for all his info like some members here on this forum

Moghul sources are invaluable, but the writers didn't have insider information like Bhangu did. Don't forget that. 

Edited by dallysingh101

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5 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

 Bhai Baaj Singh ji was not the son of Binod Singh. binod singh's son's name was Kahn Singh Ji. But both Baaj Singh Jee and Bhai Kahn Singh Jee were part of the Panj Pyaras and remained with Baba Jee and did not break ranks and abandon Baba Jee in Gurdas Nangal as binod singh did. The fact that his own son Kahn Singh ji stayed with Baba jee shows how wrong binod singh was in this matter. Later when all the Singhs were caught by the Mughals and being taken to Delhi binod singh used his influence with his Mughal buddies to free his son from captivity. Just look at the difference here. Baba Jee had a chance to save his infant son from a cruel death but didn't out of khalsa principle and he became a Shaheed along with his son. While that binod singh saves his son. The other other remaining three of the Panj Pyaras including Bhai Baaj Singh Ji became Shaheed with Baba Ji and no doubt are in Sach Khand. I will much rather listen to those Shaheeds than binod singh who spread these lies against Baba Jee in order to justify his treachery

Please shut the <banned word filter activated> up. 

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I think this Youtube channel has a narrow viewpoint in sikhi, ie they only think within their sect and even praise their own sect members are gursikhs.

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3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Moghul sources are invaluable, but the writers didn't have insider information like Bhangu did. Don't forget that. 

 

No doubt he had access to the info that was available to him. But who is to say all the info that he received is 100% accurate? Panth Prakash it is not Bani that we should take it to be 100% correct, at least I don't consider it to be 100% especially in regards to Baba Banda Singh Bahadur or the reason he gave for Bhai Mani Singh Jee's Shaheedi or even saying that Shaheed Baba Gurbaksh Singh jee first drank Bhang as soon as he woke up in the morning even before Ishnan or Nitnem which even goes against Nihang Maryada that is to do Ishnan then do Nitnem and only after that they eat or drink anything.

 

Some information that Bhangu received is 3rd or 4rd generation hand information especially in regards to Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. How can we take that as 100% accurate? on the other hand one should look at all the information(especially contemporary) from that time period, read it with proper perspective and then come to a conclusion.

Just look at the times of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. How much lies have been spread on him by Hindus and even by Sikhs like claiming he wanted to declare himself as a Guru. We have access to info like we never had in history. So we didn't repeat the mistake with Sant Jee that we made with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in believing the misinformation.

Edited by Jonny101

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9 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

It is just semantics. Forget spirit or soul.

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਫਰਮਾਉਂਦੇ ਨੇ "ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਦੋਖ ਮਹਿ ਦੋਖ" ਸੋ ਤੇਰੀ ਜਿਹੜੀ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਇਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਹੈ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਇਸਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਣਾ ਕਿਓਂਕਿ  "ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਦਾ ਨਿਰਲਪ"

ਪਰ ਹਾਂ , ਜੇ ਫਰਕ ਪੈਣਾ ਤਾ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਪਊ ਜਦ ਤੇਰਾ ਵਾਹ ਜਮਦੂਤਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਪਿਆ|| ਪਰ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਵਖਤ ਸਮਝ ਆਊਗੀ ਜਦ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਵਰਗੇ ਸੰਤ ਮਹਾਪੁਰਸ਼ ਦੀ  ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਦੇ ਜੁਰਮ ਵਿਚ ਤਸੀਹੇ ਝੱਲਣੇ ਪੈਣੇ.

it is one thing if a person innocently does Nindia of a Brahmgiani like Babaji after reading Panth Prakash. But when a person is made aware of the slander against Baba Jee in Panth Prakash and still insists upon continuing his Nindia then he is responsible for his own torture he will endure in Yamlok from Jamdoots.

Again, apply what you are saying to yourself & your nindiya of Baba Binod Singh..... nindiya that no written source or opinion from any mahapurekh would back up.

Baba Binod Singh was CHOSEN to be the first jathedar of Budda Dal after Banda Singh had been shaheed for some time.... Baba Binod Singh being chosen to lead Budda Dal was approved by Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Mani Singh Ji not to mention other prominent gursikhs of that time.

All of the above names were wrong in their opinion of Baba Binod Singh but you are right.....

Rattan Singh Bhangu, Mata Sundri Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh & Bhai Mani Singh were all wrong about Banda Singh but you are right.....

The people who made the video posted by OP belong to a man made cult..... personality worship is a part of who they are.... but they and you are right.... all the above named gursikhs are all wrong.

 

P.S. spirit or soul is not just semantics, there's a huge difference.

Edited by Mahakaal96

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12 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Again, apply what you are saying to yourself & your nindiya of Baba Binod Singh..... nindiya that no written source or opinion from any mahapurekh would back up.

Baba Binod Singh was CHOSEN to be the first jathedar of Budda Dal after Banda Singh had been shaheed for some time.... Baba Binod Singh being chosen to lead Budda Dal was approved by Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Mani Singh Ji not to mention other prominent gursikhs of that time.

All of the above names were wrong in their opinion of Baba Binod Singh but you are right.....

Rattan Singh Bhangu, Mata Sundri Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh & Bhai Mani Singh were all wrong about Banda Singh but you are right.....

The people who made the video posted by OP belong to a man made cult..... personality worship is a part of who they are.... but they and you are right.... all the above named gursikhs are all wrong.

 

P.S. spirit or soul is not just semantics, there's a huge difference.

Mata Ji's letter was forged by the Mughals to pacify the Sikh warriors so they would stop following Baba ji. That is why the Sikhs did not stop following Baba ji and continued on waging war against the Mughals.  The only time some Sikhs made the mistake of abandoning Baba ji was in Gurdas Nangal due to binod singh's treachery. So stop putting my Mata ji down to the level of your binod singh. Same with Baba Deep Singh ji. He has given divine Darshan to Sant Gurbachan Singh bhindranwale along with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and other Brahmgiani Shaheeds which further proves his exaulted position among Shaheeds.

 

Baba ji was personally chosen by Guru Sahib to lead the Khalsa. I have much more faith in Guru Sahib's choice than you. 

 

Still it is not too late. You are still alive and I advise you to repent for your sinful Karms on this forum of doing Nindia of a Brahmgiani Mahapurkh. Or else you will regret this dusht Karms in Jamlok but then it will be too late to repent.

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