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In Defense of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur


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On 7/16/2017 at 6:42 AM, Jonny101 said:

I respect Panth Prakash but I don't hold it's writing as infallible. I don't agree with Bhangu on some points besides Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. I don't agree with him that Bhai Mani Singh Jee got Shaheed due to his "sin" against Gurbani.

 

But disagreement doesn't mean PP doesn't hold a special place in Sikh history. PP gives us great info about our Bazurgs even if sometimes it is not accurate on some points but still it should be studied by all Sikhs along with Sooraj Prakash Granth.

It's unique and we are very lucky to have it. Imagine all those people who don't have such literature like certain tribes in Africa, native Americans etc., various aborigines.

To me the work is a classic. That doesn't mean everything in it will be correct, but it's invaluable as a document that captures contemporary beliefs from an insider perspective.  

I don't get this impulse too many apnay have that results in their getting their knickers in a twist over the contents of historical granths? If it's the idea that our ancestors lived very different lives to us and thought very differently to us today that is unpalatable to modern readers living in relative comfort, that is the height of stupidity. 

I think it's ego too. Certain people take so much pride in certain practices of theirs which they consider very Sikhlike, that when they read about behaviour that goes contrary to this by our own ancestors during a definitive, heroic period of our history - the dissonance is too much for them. 

What if those people are wrong, and Bhangu has put down realities of that time as preserved through oral traditions, including direct family contact. 

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On 2017-07-16 at 9:33 AM, Mahakaal96 said:

I think you need to understand what slander is... then apply that understanding to what you are saying about Baba Binod Singh.

I take it Mata Sundri Ji was committing slander when she issued a hukamnama against Banda Singh?

I take it Sant Jarnail Singh was committing slander when he did katha on Banda Singh inline with Panth Prakash.

I take it Rattan Singh Bhangu, the grandson of Mehtab Singh who killed Massa Rangar was committing slander when he wrote Panth Prakash.

 

P.S Thank you for your concern towards my 'spirit'.... it's appreciated but I'd rather focus on my 'soul' 

 

It is just semantics. Forget spirit or soul.

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਫਰਮਾਉਂਦੇ ਨੇ "ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਦੋਖ ਮਹਿ ਦੋਖ" ਸੋ ਤੇਰੀ ਜਿਹੜੀ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਇਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਹੈ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਇਸਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਣਾ ਕਿਓਂਕਿ  "ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਦਾ ਨਿਰਲਪ"

ਪਰ ਹਾਂ , ਜੇ ਫਰਕ ਪੈਣਾ ਤਾ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਪਊ ਜਦ ਤੇਰਾ ਵਾਹ ਜਮਦੂਤਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਪਿਆ|| ਪਰ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਵਖਤ ਸਮਝ ਆਊਗੀ ਜਦ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਵਰਗੇ ਸੰਤ ਮਹਾਪੁਰਸ਼ ਦੀ  ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਦੇ ਜੁਰਮ ਵਿਚ ਤਸੀਹੇ ਝੱਲਣੇ ਪੈਣੇ.

it is one thing if a person innocently does Nindia of a Brahmgiani like Babaji after reading Panth Prakash. But when a person is made aware of the slander against Baba Jee in Panth Prakash and still insists upon continuing his Nindia then he is responsible for his own torture he will endure in Yamlok from Jamdoots.

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On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎16 at 5:59 PM, chatanga said:

 

I never knew that Baaj Singh survived Delhi. Had always thought he was shaheed. If you consider the sakhi of the Sikh boy who was shaheed (even though his mother protested that he wasn't a Sikh) it seems a little weird that Baaj Singh would prefer to survival rather than shaheedi with his comrades.

 

 Bhai Baaj Singh ji was not the son of Binod Singh. binod singh's son's name was Kahn Singh Ji. But both Baaj Singh Jee and Bhai Kahn Singh Jee were part of the Panj Pyaras and remained with Baba Jee and did not break ranks and abandon Baba Jee in Gurdas Nangal as binod singh did. The fact that his own son Kahn Singh ji stayed with Baba jee shows how wrong binod singh was in this matter. Later when all the Singhs were caught by the Mughals and being taken to Delhi binod singh used his influence with his Mughal buddies to free his son from captivity. Just look at the difference here. Baba Jee had a chance to save his infant son from a cruel death but didn't out of khalsa principle and he became a Shaheed along with his son. While that binod singh saves his son. The other other remaining three of the Panj Pyaras including Bhai Baaj Singh Ji became Shaheed with Baba Ji and no doubt are in Sach Khand. I will much rather listen to those Shaheeds than binod singh who spread these lies against Baba Jee in order to justify his treachery

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On ‎2017‎-‎07‎-‎17 at 3:17 AM, 13Mirch said:

Ganda Singh had nothing substantial. Prof. Puran Singh, Dr. Trilochan Singh and S. Kapur Singh often criticized his shallow reasoning. He attempts to argue, in A Short History of the Sikhs vol. i, that Guru Gobind Singh Ji perceived the Khalsa and Mughals to be parallel in the socio-political field given that both were creations of Sri Akal Purakh Vaheguru. S. Kapur Singh and Dr. Trilochan Singh, both, disprove this nation by analyzing the original verse in the Bachittra-Natak which postulates that those who discard truth and morality often become prey for politico-religious state tyranny. 

On the contrary, Dr Ganda Singh's book is all substantial with references from Persian and Mughal sources which are contemporary and did not make the mistake of only relying on Panth Prakash (written during the times of M Ranjit SIngh) for all his info like some members here on this forum

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2 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

On the contrary, Dr Ganda Singh's book is all substantial with references from Persian and Mughal sources which are contemporary and did not make the mistake of only relying on Panth Prakash (written during the times of M Ranjit SIngh) for all his info like some members here on this forum

Moghul sources are invaluable, but the writers didn't have insider information like Bhangu did. Don't forget that. 

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5 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

 Bhai Baaj Singh ji was not the son of Binod Singh. binod singh's son's name was Kahn Singh Ji. But both Baaj Singh Jee and Bhai Kahn Singh Jee were part of the Panj Pyaras and remained with Baba Jee and did not break ranks and abandon Baba Jee in Gurdas Nangal as binod singh did. The fact that his own son Kahn Singh ji stayed with Baba jee shows how wrong binod singh was in this matter. Later when all the Singhs were caught by the Mughals and being taken to Delhi binod singh used his influence with his Mughal buddies to free his son from captivity. Just look at the difference here. Baba Jee had a chance to save his infant son from a cruel death but didn't out of khalsa principle and he became a Shaheed along with his son. While that binod singh saves his son. The other other remaining three of the Panj Pyaras including Bhai Baaj Singh Ji became Shaheed with Baba Ji and no doubt are in Sach Khand. I will much rather listen to those Shaheeds than binod singh who spread these lies against Baba Jee in order to justify his treachery

Please shut the <banned word filter activated> up. 

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3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Moghul sources are invaluable, but the writers didn't have insider information like Bhangu did. Don't forget that. 

 

No doubt he had access to the info that was available to him. But who is to say all the info that he received is 100% accurate? Panth Prakash it is not Bani that we should take it to be 100% correct, at least I don't consider it to be 100% especially in regards to Baba Banda Singh Bahadur or the reason he gave for Bhai Mani Singh Jee's Shaheedi or even saying that Shaheed Baba Gurbaksh Singh jee first drank Bhang as soon as he woke up in the morning even before Ishnan or Nitnem which even goes against Nihang Maryada that is to do Ishnan then do Nitnem and only after that they eat or drink anything.

 

Some information that Bhangu received is 3rd or 4rd generation hand information especially in regards to Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. How can we take that as 100% accurate? on the other hand one should look at all the information(especially contemporary) from that time period, read it with proper perspective and then come to a conclusion.

Just look at the times of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale. How much lies have been spread on him by Hindus and even by Sikhs like claiming he wanted to declare himself as a Guru. We have access to info like we never had in history. So we didn't repeat the mistake with Sant Jee that we made with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur in believing the misinformation.

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9 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

It is just semantics. Forget spirit or soul.

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਫਰਮਾਉਂਦੇ ਨੇ "ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਦੋਖ ਮਹਿ ਦੋਖ" ਸੋ ਤੇਰੀ ਜਿਹੜੀ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਪ੍ਰਤਿ ਇਹ ਨਿੰਦਿਆ ਹੈ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਇਸਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਣਾ ਕਿਓਂਕਿ  "ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਦਾ ਨਿਰਲਪ"

ਪਰ ਹਾਂ , ਜੇ ਫਰਕ ਪੈਣਾ ਤਾ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਪਊ ਜਦ ਤੇਰਾ ਵਾਹ ਜਮਦੂਤਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਪਿਆ|| ਪਰ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਵਖਤ ਸਮਝ ਆਊਗੀ ਜਦ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਵਰਗੇ ਸੰਤ ਮਹਾਪੁਰਸ਼ ਦੀ  ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਦੇ ਜੁਰਮ ਵਿਚ ਤਸੀਹੇ ਝੱਲਣੇ ਪੈਣੇ.

it is one thing if a person innocently does Nindia of a Brahmgiani like Babaji after reading Panth Prakash. But when a person is made aware of the slander against Baba Jee in Panth Prakash and still insists upon continuing his Nindia then he is responsible for his own torture he will endure in Yamlok from Jamdoots.

Again, apply what you are saying to yourself & your nindiya of Baba Binod Singh..... nindiya that no written source or opinion from any mahapurekh would back up.

Baba Binod Singh was CHOSEN to be the first jathedar of Budda Dal after Banda Singh had been shaheed for some time.... Baba Binod Singh being chosen to lead Budda Dal was approved by Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Mani Singh Ji not to mention other prominent gursikhs of that time.

All of the above names were wrong in their opinion of Baba Binod Singh but you are right.....

Rattan Singh Bhangu, Mata Sundri Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh & Bhai Mani Singh were all wrong about Banda Singh but you are right.....

The people who made the video posted by OP belong to a man made cult..... personality worship is a part of who they are.... but they and you are right.... all the above named gursikhs are all wrong.

 

P.S. spirit or soul is not just semantics, there's a huge difference.

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12 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Again, apply what you are saying to yourself & your nindiya of Baba Binod Singh..... nindiya that no written source or opinion from any mahapurekh would back up.

Baba Binod Singh was CHOSEN to be the first jathedar of Budda Dal after Banda Singh had been shaheed for some time.... Baba Binod Singh being chosen to lead Budda Dal was approved by Nawab Kapur Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Mani Singh Ji not to mention other prominent gursikhs of that time.

All of the above names were wrong in their opinion of Baba Binod Singh but you are right.....

Rattan Singh Bhangu, Mata Sundri Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh & Bhai Mani Singh were all wrong about Banda Singh but you are right.....

The people who made the video posted by OP belong to a man made cult..... personality worship is a part of who they are.... but they and you are right.... all the above named gursikhs are all wrong.

 

P.S. spirit or soul is not just semantics, there's a huge difference.

Mata Ji's letter was forged by the Mughals to pacify the Sikh warriors so they would stop following Baba ji. That is why the Sikhs did not stop following Baba ji and continued on waging war against the Mughals.  The only time some Sikhs made the mistake of abandoning Baba ji was in Gurdas Nangal due to binod singh's treachery. So stop putting my Mata ji down to the level of your binod singh. Same with Baba Deep Singh ji. He has given divine Darshan to Sant Gurbachan Singh bhindranwale along with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and other Brahmgiani Shaheeds which further proves his exaulted position among Shaheeds.

 

Baba ji was personally chosen by Guru Sahib to lead the Khalsa. I have much more faith in Guru Sahib's choice than you. 

 

Still it is not too late. You are still alive and I advise you to repent for your sinful Karms on this forum of doing Nindia of a Brahmgiani Mahapurkh. Or else you will regret this dusht Karms in Jamlok but then it will be too late to repent.

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