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Kira    1,246
22 hours ago, 5akaalsingh said:

The guy is denying almost 200 years of sikh history.... how sad!

Suraj Parkash stated Guru Gobind Singh Ji even ate meat. I wonder what he thinks of that.

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ipledgeblue    73
1 minute ago, Kira said:

Suraj Parkash stated Guru Gobind Singh Ji even ate meat. I wonder what he thinks of that.

are we allowed to say stuff like that on this forum now? I know a lot of people used to get banned and topics locked when true facts were stated LOL There used to be admins that followed sants or bhai sahibs that would preach your statement down into the ground. But obviously, the real Khalsa with their shastar, bani, bana, and itihas does not fall so easily!

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Kira    1,246
7 minutes ago, ipledgeblue said:

are we allowed to say stuff like that on this forum now? I know a lot of people used to get banned and topics locked when true facts were stated LOL There used to be admins that followed sants or bhai sahibs that would preach your statement down into the ground. But obviously, the real Khalsa with their shastar, bani, bana, and itihas does not fall so easily!

I don't really know in all honesty. If its in a Granth and they're denying it then they'll deny History. Bear in mind eating meat isn't spiritually beneficial however Guru Sahib taught us Spiritual and Temporal arts.

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dallysingh101    1,583
2 hours ago, Kira said:

Suraj Parkash stated Guru Gobind Singh Ji even ate meat. I wonder what he thinks of that.

That's just being provocative for no reason bro. Tread sensitively on these types of issues. 

Suraj Prakash was written WAY after dasmesh pita's earthly passing. 

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh   
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By that logic you must consider a helluva lot of your warrior Sikh ancestors to be scum then...

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The guy is denying almost 200 years of sikh history.... how sad!

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nowadays sikhs are more saint than soldiers

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I guess pakhandi veggie saints/sants then 

Quote

Suraj Parkash stated Guru Gobind Singh Ji even ate meat. I wonder what he thinks of that.

Come on now boys you need to up your intellectual game much more than that. You're bring GCSEs to a Phd fight. That won't cut it. You can't read a message in which the poster makes it abundantly clear that he is most definately not part of any jatha or group, has an absolute dislike of every parachark and preacher there is and listens to the teachings of absolutely nobody except Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (i,e fundamentally believes that there should there is need and never should be the need for any 'middle man' between a Sikh and our Guru ji) and then say " this people follow sant babas or bhai sahibs".   <banned word filter activated> ? :hairan:

Before I say anything else, I have to say I'm truly intrigued how anyone can look at one that not only doesn't eat the flesh of animals but only never eats and drinks anything made from the milk that was made for the animal's babies and conclude that it's the sign of a "pakhandi veggie".  What a strange thing to say.:hairan:

Now, my friends, what is the point of being human if we close our minds and hide from our ability to see right from wrong, i.e learn ?     My forefathers ate animals. They had no reason not to. Firstly, as Sikhs, it wasn't against their religion to, secondly they lived in a country and culture where the 'meat industry' wasn't an 'industry' at all, let alone a highly corrosive one, and so did no harm to the earth and thirdly, as unpadhs and semi-unpadhs, they wouldn't have had access to knowledge even if it was. So that's their excuse.....but what's yours ?    Waheguru has blessed you with being able to attend first class schools and colleges and receive first class education but what do you do with the knowledge of today that yesterday's generation didn't have ? What do you do ?

1) Today's knowledge has found that the meat industry is the single biggest contributor to the environmental crisis destroying the world but you say " my eyes are closed...my ears are closed...my forefathers ate meat and so shall I"

2) Sri i Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches you that, in many ways, the environment is Waheguru and so what do you do with the knowldege of today that the meat industry is destroying waheguru ?   You say " my eyes are closed...my ears are closed...my forefathers ate meat and so shall I"

3) Knowledge of today teaches you that the meat you eat today is full of chemicals and poisons  and all kinds of toxins but what do you say ?  You say " my eyes are closed...my ears are closed...my forefathers ate meat and so shall I"

Now, I don't want to come across as highly dismissive of you because I too was once just like you. But the thing that distinguishes us humans from the animals we eat is our ability to learn and change. You know things today that our forefathers didn't. Act on that knowledge. That's what makes you human. The ability to do so. Don't compare yourselves to the great warriors of yesteryear. None of us can compare to them. Not only was the meat they ate not part of a globallly corrossive evil industry destroying the environment of the earth but it was meat that was the fruits of their own labour. If they wanted to eat meat they would hunt and kill that animal with their own hands.  That was them.....but now lets talk about YOU.  You want your pound of animal flesh but you someone else to do the dirty work for you. You want the taste of flesh in your mouth but you don't want to see the blood and you don't want to hear the cries when it died. In order to enjoy this lovely meat of yours you need someone else to kill it for you away from your eyes and ears. You need someone else to drain the blood for you well away from your eyes and ears. You need someone else to skin it for you well away from your eyes and ears. You need someone else to package it and place it on a supermarket shelf for you well away from your eyes and ears. You just want the taste of meat that comes at the end of the chain. You want to blank out everything that took place to get it to your plate. You just want it on your plate and now you want to lecture me and everyone else here on you compare to the great meat-eating warriors of yesteryear ????

Doesn't the fact that you desperately need someone else to do the dirty work for you out of sight out of mind not tell you that this thing (meat) might not be such a great thing after all ?

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Kira    1,246
48 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

That's just being provocative for no reason bro. Tread sensitively on these types of issues. 

Suraj Prakash was written WAY after dasmesh pita's earthly passing. 

The Granth was published 100ish years after Guru Sahib left, bearing in mind Kavi Ji spent about 40 years gathering it all, considering all the references of Sikhs eating meat within it the chances of someone going through and altering everything is far too low. If it had been one instance then it would be another story entirely.

 

Calling all meat eaters as scums and branding them with the same brush as Pedophiles is just as provocative, imo its more. Forget the statement about Guru Sahib eating meat but the fact that our ancestors did as well  AND Nihang Singh also do right now, calling them all scum is outright disrespectful and pathetic. Those Singhs (our ancestors) fought wars and faced unimaginable horrors. Jagsaw's idea of horror is probably when Tescos runs out of bread. 

Edited by Kira
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Guest Jagsaw_Singh   
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Jagsaw's idea of horror is probably when Tescos runs out of bread.

Given that I don't eat meat....don't eat dairy and don't drink milk........there were enough clues there to show you that I'm probably the sort of bloke that bakes his own bread. :p      The answer is yes, I do bake my own bread. And 'horror' was when Costco ran out of the organic coconut alternative to sugar the other week.

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ipledgeblue    73
On 14/07/2017 at 3:34 PM, Kira said:

Suraj Parkash stated Guru Gobind Singh Ji even ate meat. I wonder what he thinks of that.

 

On 14/07/2017 at 5:59 PM, dallysingh101 said:

That's just being provocative for no reason bro. Tread sensitively on these types of issues. 

Suraj Prakash was written WAY after dasmesh pita's earthly passing. 

lol not provocative, you should see the later sants and bhais people quote for history books. 

On 14/07/2017 at 6:01 PM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Before I say anything else, I have to say I'm truly intrigued how anyone can look at one that not only doesn't eat the flesh of animals but only never eats and drinks anything made from the milk that was made for the animal's babies and conclude that it's the sign of a "pakhandi veggie".  What a strange thing to say.:hairan:

Now, my friends, what is the point of being human if we close our minds and hide from our ability to see right from wrong, i.e learn ?     My forefathers ate animals. They had no reason not to. Firstly, as Sikhs, it wasn't against their religion to, secondly they lived in a country and culture where the 'meat industry' wasn't an 'industry' at all, let alone a highly corrosive one, and so did no harm to the earth and thirdly, as unpadhs and semi-unpadhs, they wouldn't have had access to knowledge even if it was. So that's their excuse.....but what's yours ?    Waheguru has blessed you with being able to attend first class schools and colleges and receive first class education but what do you do with the knowledge of today that yesterday's generation didn't have ? What do you do ?

1) Today's knowledge has found that the meat industry is the single biggest contributor to the environmental crisis destroying the world but you say " my eyes are closed...my ears are closed...my forefathers ate meat and so shall I"

2) Sri i Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches you that, in many ways, the environment is Waheguru and so what do you do with the knowldege of today that the meat industry is destroying waheguru ?   You say " my eyes are closed...my ears are closed...my forefathers ate meat and so shall I"

3) Knowledge of today teaches you that the meat you eat today is full of chemicals and poisons  and all kinds of toxins but what do you say ?  You say " my eyes are closed...my ears are closed...my forefathers ate meat and so shall I"

Now, I don't want to come across as highly dismissive of you because I too was once just like you. But the thing that distinguishes us humans from the animals we eat is our ability to learn and change. You know things today that our forefathers didn't. Act on that knowledge. That's what makes you human. The ability to do so. Don't compare yourselves to the great warriors of yesteryear. None of us can compare to them. Not only was the meat they ate not part of a globallly corrossive evil industry destroying the environment of the earth but it was meat that was the fruits of their own labour. If they wanted to eat meat they would hunt and kill that animal with their own hands.  That was them.....but now lets talk about YOU.  You want your pound of animal flesh but you someone else to do the dirty work for you. You want the taste of flesh in your mouth but you don't want to see the blood and you don't want to hear the cries when it died. In order to enjoy this lovely meat of yours you need someone else to kill it for you away from your eyes and ears. You need someone else to drain the blood for you well away from your eyes and ears. You need someone else to skin it for you well away from your eyes and ears. You need someone else to package it and place it on a supermarket shelf for you well away from your eyes and ears. You just want the taste of meat that comes at the end of the chain. You want to blank out everything that took place to get it to your plate. You just want it on your plate and now you want to lecture me and everyone else here on you compare to the great meat-eating warriors of yesteryear ????

Doesn't the fact that you desperately need someone else to do the dirty work for you out of sight out of mind not tell you that this thing (meat) might not be such a great thing after all ?

look I was talking about veggie pakhandi sants, not real veggie sants. A lot of sants are pakhandis and preach vegeterianism. but why are they pakhandis? Because they wear kripaan and show themselves as amrit dharis yet don't practise the shastars like Guru Gobind Singhs says you should do, and also they don't further preach this to their sangat!

Look we should not eat khulla maas, the meat bought from shops and restaurants. Khalsa is  supposed to practise shikar and jhatka, in addition to shastar abiyaas. WE should not eat/drink this injected and pumped full of antibiotics organic shop bought meat or milk. It should be banned to even donate non-organic milk to gurdwaras! And also we should use the proper stuff in gurdwaras for karah parshad and sweet items and not this refined sugar chini that causes diabetes!!   Again gurdwaras need to ban a lot of things, and amrit dharis need to stop eating a lot of things, before we can even talk about if meat is wrong or not!

 

2 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

And....the silence of the flesh eaters is now deafening.  :nohear::nosee::notalk:

You should read what gurbani says about flesh. You will not need to go beyond Guru Nanak ji dee bani on flesh. There's a lot of stuff about flesh from baba Nanak.

Flesh eaters are not silent by the way, have you seen what happens at Hazoor Sahib? Actually you should see what happened to the missionary sikh who tried to stop the Aarti, trust me the state of his face has nothing to do with any deafening silence!

Edited by ipledgeblue
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Guest London jwaan   
Guest London jwaan

....abs the constant flatulence from the resident behvkoof is irritating, if not wholly predictable....

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh   
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look I was talking about veggie pakhandi sants, not real veggie sants. A lot of sants are pakhandis and preach vegeterianism. but why are they pakhandis? Because they wear kripaan and show themselves as amrit dharis yet don't practise the shastars like Guru Gobind Singhs says you should do, and also they don't further preach this to their sangat!

Absolutely agree with you ipledgeblue. 100%. 

Really, the only difference of opinion we have is of the level of responsibility and consciousness towards the earth and socio-political realities a Sikh should have in order to truly be a Sikh. Not an insurmountable chasm in the greater scheme of things.....especially with good and productive conversation.

 

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ipledgeblue    73
15 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Absolutely agree with you ipledgeblue. 100%. 

Really, the only difference of opinion we have is of the level of responsibility and consciousness towards the earth and socio-political realities a Sikh should have in order to truly be a Sikh. Not an insurmountable chasm in the greater scheme of things.....especially with good and productive conversation.

 

ok, we could make a topic about this, about environmental issues.

Firstly, since sikhi also respects sarguna, then respecting Earth and environment as Maa dharti from mata dharat mahat should be something we do. Sarguna includes nature as well.

Then you you see the full maryada bana wearing Singhs who don't need a physical gurdwara for Guru Maharaj. Guru Maharaj is with them and their dals and shuanis, when they are travelling by trucks and horses.  Physical gurdwara is more required for sehajdharis and civilian Singhs. In contrast, look at the money wasted in making massive gurdwaras, and these massive gurdwaras hardly have any shastar training, why no archery or shooting ranges? 

Also Singhs that practise jhatka are really supposed to use wild goats. Again, this is nothing compared to mass produced meat factories. Still organic is a better option but still not environmentally friendly as jhatka. And hunting is even better as well. I mean all the mass produced vegetables we eat are probably also environmentally-unfriendly. Unless we start growing our own foods, maybe have massive allotments connected to gurdwaray where sangat does sewa and collects food!

Could expand on this on a new topic!

Edited by ipledgeblue

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Singh1989    76
On ‎14‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 7:25 PM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Given that I don't eat meat....don't eat dairy and don't drink milk........there were enough clues there to show you that I'm probably the sort of bloke that bakes his own bread. :p      The answer is yes, I do bake my own bread. And 'horror' was when Costco ran out of the organic coconut alternative to sugar the other week.

Own bread? Thas really amazing. My sister cooks her own food 7 days and drinks nothing but water. Rotia are mixed sometimes bajria sometimes makhi. She never eats packed biscuits let alone in restaurants. Out of curiosity whas your diet like?

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh   
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Own bread? Thas really amazing. My sister cooks her own food 7 days and drinks nothing but water. Rotia are mixed sometimes bajria sometimes makhi. She never eats packed biscuits let alone in restaurants. Out of curiosity whas your diet like?

My breadmaking is a bit of a cheat because we have a bread-maker machine (Panasonic - was given to us as a house-warming present). My diet is very much like your sister in that we try and 'recycle' our daals and turn them into rotian (bajria) and only use brown wholemeal atta for general rotis. One thing we will never allow in our house is the white roti atta , especially the Canadian Gold. I actually get really angry and upset when I see people have even started using that atta in Gurdwaras and also for langars at home. It tastes really good but what people have got to understand is that it tastes really good for a reason and that reason is the fact that it is so over-refined every single thing of nutrition has been refined out of it. i.e all the things that are good for you in wheat has been taken out of it and whats left is simply the soft texture and taste. Its the same with the might white bread you get in Canada. Tastes so good because it's so soft etc but that's because everything that is nutritionally good has been refined out of it.

Generally though, as a family unit, our diet is guided by ethics more than anything else. Where we can, we grow our own mirch, carrots and peas etc in our garden and choices of what to buy at the supermarket are dictated mostly by where it came from, in that we try and avoid things that come from overseas and even too far north of London  as we don't want to be adding to the destruction of the environment by playing our part in encouraging the unnecessary transportation of foodstuffs.

Diet on a typical day then:

Crunchy nut cornfalkes with hazelnut / almond or coconut milk for breakfast.

A Jordan's muesli bar for brunch.

Aloo wala parathas for lunch (packed lunch)

Simple roti and daal / sabji for dinner with homemade achar that my wife makes (large chillis stuffed with imli tamararind)  And at least 2 litres of water throughout the day.

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