Guest ChardiKala

Halal food

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Guru Granth Sahib forbids eating of halal or any meat killed according to ritual beliefs. Muslims have successfully lobbied to get most of the restuarants even in Sikh populated areas to serve only Halal food. However, it hurts me to see keshdhari Sikhs sitting in Shwarma place and other Pakistani joints happily eating Halal food. When you talk to them, they plead ignorance. These are the same Sikhs who tend to lecture other mona Sikhs about keeping kesh. Why are they not following the tenants and protesting about the creeping Halal everywhere? Our school where 50% of the students are Sikh now serve Halal hot dogs because of only 5% Muslims. None of the Sikhs care about this. Muslims are using Halal certification to build mosques in every street and actively convert people, but use Sikhs are happy eating Biryani!

When I bring this up in Gurdwara they say we should only be vegetarian, when all the committee members eat meat and close to 90% Sikhs are non-veg (also Gurbani does not prohibit meat). I am so confused at this hypocrisy. Anyone agree with me?

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49 minutes ago, Guest ChardiKala said:

 Our school where 50% of the students are Sikh now serve Halal hot dogs because of only 5% Muslims. None of the Sikhs care about this.

Wow, where is this school with a 50% Sikh student population? 

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2 hours ago, Guest ChardiKala said:

it hurts me to see keshdhari Sikhs sitting in Shwarma place and other Pakistani joints happily eating Halal food. When you talk to them, they plead ignorance. These are the same Sikhs who tend to lecture other mona Sikhs about keeping kesh. Why are they not following the tenants and protesting about the creeping Halal everywhere? Our school where 50% of the students are Sikh now serve Halal hot dogs because of only 5% Muslims. None of the Sikhs care about this. Muslims are using Halal certification to build mosques in every street and actively convert people, but use Sikhs are happy eating Biryani!

When I bring this up in Gurdwara they say we should only be vegetarian, when all the committee members eat meat and close to 90% Sikhs are non-veg (also Gurbani does not prohibit meat). I am so confused at this hypocrisy. Anyone agree with me?

Yes, I do agree with you. I do think that most Sikhs should refrain from meat, but for those who don't, they should absolutely never eat halal. If you can't ascertain for certain whether a given piece of meat is halal or not, you should not eat it. The very best thing is to simply not eat out, just eat at your house, your friends/families houses, or the Gurdwara. Failing that, only eat at vegetarian restaurants.

What stupid Sikhs and Christians don't realize is that halal is the thin end of the wedge that Muslims use to Islamize a country, as they did in India.

2 hours ago, Guest ChardiKala said:

Why are they not following the tenants and protesting about the creeping Halal everywhere?

Agreed. If Sikhs would just follow their Guru and either not eat meat, or not eat halal, there wouldn't be a problem.

This is a useful site for these issues:

https://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/

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Next time any of you guys in store with a sacred halal section and display, then do what i do???  Go grab a big pack of pork chops and flip it over the halal displays of their fancy green packages.

 

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Don't touch it.

Schools these days are driven by cost and go by the cheaper option.

That is a big reason why Halal is pushed forward so much.

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I tell you a big problem for people (especially youngsters) is the way non-halal diets can effect social life in a sullah area. When 95% of the restaurants/food outlets around are jalal (even the ones not run by muslims), I think a lot of youngsters and families feel seriously limited. 

But if we are having issues in an area with a 50% Sikh student population in schools - we're in trouble. I think one of the reasons is confusion. It's only recently that people seemed to have figured out that eating kutha meat is prohibited with old precedents. Pushing/promoting vegetarianism made people think that : "If I eat meat, I might as well eat any." which we know is not how it went down historically.  

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Need to find the right kind of sangat like Nihang Singhs and other understanding groups. Does sikh council help in these things?

 

I remember when they were asking tweeting everyone to support the sikh manifesto. When I mentioned halal, they seemed to have put it in a footnote somewhere. FOR SHAME!!!

 

I am sandwiched between Slough and Southall areas, I see more sikhs preaching haircuts and shaving than those preaching to keep hair!

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To argue over which meat is 'best' and most right': halal or non-halal is like arguing over which paedophile was best and most righteous: Rolf Harris or Gary Glitter. All paedophiles are scum and all meat is scum.

Quote

I am sandwiched between Slough and Southall areas,

Poor you.  If I had to be in a sandwich I can't think of a more horrible sandwich to be in. (except maybe sandwiched between Wolverhampon and Walsall)

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6 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

I am sandwiched between Slough and Southall areas, I see more sikhs preaching haircuts and shaving than those preaching to keep hair!

What?! They are actually preaching haircutting? Not just excusing it? Excusing ("I can't keep hair because of ... my job, school, military, whatever), I can understand, preaching it simply nuts.

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8 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

I am sandwiched between Slough and Southall areas, I see more sikhs preaching haircuts and shaving than those preaching to keep hair!

Are they actually preaching it or just telling someone that they cut their hair for "X", reason?

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16 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

To argue over which meat is 'best' and most right': halal or non-halal is like arguing over which paedophile was best and most righteous: Rolf Harris or Gary Glitter. All paedophiles are scum and all meat is scum.

Poor you.  If I had to be in a sandwich I can't think of a more horrible sandwich to be in. (except maybe sandwiched between Wolverhampon and Walsall)

You should listen to Aasa dii vaar:

ਮਃ   
मः १ ॥ 
Mėhlā 1. 
First Mehl: 
 
ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਵਾਜ  
माणस खाणे करहि निवाज ॥ 
Māṇas kẖāṇe karahi nivāj. 
The man-eaters say their prayers. 
 
ਛੁਰੀ ਵਗਾਇਨਿ ਤਿਨ ਗਲਿ ਤਾਗ  
छुरी वगाइनि तिन गलि ताग ॥ 
Cẖẖurī vagā▫in ṯin gal ṯāg. 
Those who wield the knife wear the sacred thread around their necks. 
 
ਤਿਨ ਘਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣ ਪੂਰਹਿ ਨਾਦ  
तिन घरि ब्रहमण पूरहि नाद ॥ 
Ŧin gẖar barahmaṇ pūrėh nāḏ. 
In their homes, the Brahmins sound the conch. 
 
ਉਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਭਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਓਈ ਸਾਦ  
उन्हा भि आवहि ओई साद ॥ 
Unĥā bẖė āvahi o▫ī sāḏ. 
They too have the same taste. 
 
ਕੂੜੀ ਰਾਸਿ ਕੂੜਾ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ  
कूड़ी रासि कूड़ा वापारु ॥ 
Kūṛī rās kūṛā vāpār. 
False is their capital, and false is their trade. 
 
ਕੂੜੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਆਹਾਰੁ  
कूड़ु बोलि करहि आहारु ॥ 
Kūṛ bol karahi āhār. 
Speaking falsehood, they take their food. 
 
ਸਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਕਾ ਡੇਰਾ ਦੂਰਿ  
सरम धरम का डेरा दूरि ॥ 
Saram ḏẖaram kā derā ḏūr. 
The home of modesty and Dharma is far from them. 
 
ਨਾਨਕ ਕੂੜੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰਿ  
नानक कूड़ु रहिआ भरपूरि ॥ 
Nānak kūṛ rahi▫ā bẖarpūr. 
O Nanak, they are totally permeated with falsehood. 
 
ਮਥੈ ਟਿਕਾ ਤੇੜਿ ਧੋਤੀ ਕਖਾਈ  
मथै टिका तेड़ि धोती कखाई ॥ 
Mathai tikā ṯeṛ ḏẖoṯī kakẖā▫ī. 
The sacred marks are on their foreheads, and the saffron loin-cloths are around their waists; 
 

ਹਥਿ ਛੁਰੀ ਜਗਤ ਕਾਸਾਈ  
हथि छुरी जगत कासाई ॥ 
Hath cẖẖurī jagaṯ kāsā▫ī. 
in their hands they hold the knives - they are the butchers of the world! 

ਨੀਲ ਵਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਹਿਰਿ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ  
नील वसत्र पहिरि होवहि परवाणु ॥ 
Nīl vasṯar pahir hovėh parvāṇ. 
Wearing blue robes, they seek the approval of the Muslim rulers. 
 
ਮਲੇਛ ਧਾਨੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ  
मलेछ धानु ले पूजहि पुराणु ॥ 
Malecẖẖ ḏẖān le pūjėh purāṇ. 
Accepting bread from the Muslim rulers, they still worship the Puraanas. 
 
ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਬਕਰਾ ਖਾਣਾ  
अभाखिआ का कुठा बकरा खाणा ॥ 
Abẖākẖi▫ā kā kuṯẖā bakrā kẖāṇā. 
They eat the meat of the goats, killed after the Muslim prayers are read over them, 
 
ਚਉਕੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਿਸੈ  ਜਾਣਾ  
चउके उपरि किसै न जाणा ॥ 
Cẖa▫uke upar kisai na jāṇā. 
but they do not allow anyone else to enter their kitchen areas. 
 
ਦੇ ਕੈ ਚਉਕਾ ਕਢੀ ਕਾਰ  
दे कै चउका कढी कार ॥ 
Ḏe kai cẖa▫ukā kadẖī kār. 
They draw lines around them, plastering the ground with cow-dung. 
 
ਉਪਰਿ ਆਇ ਬੈਠੇ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ  
उपरि आइ बैठे कूड़िआर ॥ 
Upar ā▫e baiṯẖe kūṛi▫ār. 
The false come and sit within them. 
 
ਮਤੁ ਭਿਟੈ ਵੇ ਮਤੁ ਭਿਟੈ  
मतु भिटै वे मतु भिटै ॥ 
Maṯ bẖitai ve maṯ bẖitai. 
They cry out, "Do not touch our food, 
 
ਇਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਅਸਾਡਾ ਫਿਟੈ  
इहु अंनु असाडा फिटै ॥ 
Ih ann asādā fitai. 
this food of ours will be polluted! 
 
ਤਨਿ ਫਿਟੈ ਫੇੜ ਕਰੇਨਿ  
तनि फिटै फेड़ करेनि ॥ 
Ŧan fitai feṛ karen. 
But with their polluted bodies, they commit evil deeds. 
 
ਮਨਿ ਜੂਠੈ ਚੁਲੀ ਭਰੇਨਿ  
मनि जूठै चुली भरेनि ॥ 
Man jūṯẖai cẖulī bẖaren. 
With filthy minds, they try to cleanse their mouths. 
 
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ  
कहु नानक सचु धिआईऐ ॥ 
Kaho Nānak sacẖ ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai. 
Says Nanak, meditate on the True Lord. 
 
ਸੁਚਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਤਾ ਸਚੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥੨॥ 
सुचि होवै ता सचु पाईऐ ॥२॥ 
Sucẖ hovai ṯā sacẖ pā▫ī▫ai. ||2|| 
If you are pure, you will obtain the True Lord. ||2|| 
11 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Are they actually preaching it or just telling someone that they cut their hair for "X", reason?

look when people say you should shave or trim your beard, or cut your hair - then it is preaching is it not? Family members and friends etc...

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28 minutes ago, ipledgeblue said:

look when people say you should shave or trim your beard, or cut your hair - then it is preaching is it not? Family members and friends etc...

isn't trimming  beard a trend of uk sikhs? lol

Edited by 5akaalsingh

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1 hour ago, 5akaalsingh said:

isn't trimming  beard a trend of uk sikhs? lol

of course. But I reckon the east african sikhs brought this trend in more strongly. The fathers and grandfathers had colonial british raj army soldier obeying fixofied beards and the sons in an imitation of this had trim or tramline beards.

 

It has spread to everyone else now as well.

 

And something super strange is happening. now sikh boys in uk and india are copying the hipster look. So now they are GROWING their beards but still keeping a haircut with no turban.

 

WHAT KIND OF RIDICULOUSNESS IS THIS????

Edited by ipledgeblue

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56 minutes ago, ipledgeblue said:

of course. But I reckon the east african sikhs brought this trend in more strongly. The fathers and grandfathers had colonial british raj army soldier obeying fixofied beards and the sons in an imitation of this had trim or tramline beards.

 

It has spread to everyone else now as well.

 

And something super strange is happening. now sikh boys in uk and india are copying the hipster look. So now they are GROWING their beards but still keeping a haircut with no turban.

 

WHAT KIND OF RIDICULOUSNESS IS THIS????

I think actually this trend has punjabi origins. Of course Sikhs started tying their beards on order of the British, but punjabi jatts also have a tendency towards trimming their beards or even shaving. At least in the UK, Sikhs keep their hair, whereas in Punjab they get them cut.

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On 10/07/2017 at 2:47 AM, Guest ChardiKala said:

Guru Granth Sahib forbids eating of halal or any meat killed according to ritual beliefs. Muslims have successfully lobbied to get most of the restuarants even in Sikh populated areas to serve only Halal food. However, it hurts me to see keshdhari Sikhs sitting in Shwarma place and other Pakistani joints happily eating Halal food. When you talk to them, they plead ignorance. These are the same Sikhs who tend to lecture other mona Sikhs about keeping kesh. Why are they not following the tenants and protesting about the creeping Halal everywhere? Our school where 50% of the students are Sikh now serve Halal hot dogs because of only 5% Muslims. None of the Sikhs care about this. Muslims are using Halal certification to build mosques in every street and actively convert people, but use Sikhs are happy eating Biryani!

When I bring this up in Gurdwara they say we should only be vegetarian, when all the committee members eat meat and close to 90% Sikhs are non-veg (also Gurbani does not prohibit meat). I am so confused at this hypocrisy. Anyone agree with me?

Our lot is a totally hopeless case IMHO. Only satguru can guide us now. 

If you don't educate them, its tough. When you do, they don't wanna listen and will you brush you off as young, naive, old, baabey, gay, and what not. 

But being a sikh like us, we can't see our kaum going to gutters either :/ 

its a tough choice man . We're in deep deep mess , so deep now we're even scared to admit it to ourselves. Hence we plead ignorance 

PS: Abrahamic religions followers are very sharda-ful to their religions. They want their faith and its rules in every corner . Their youth is more committed to their culture, namaaz, dress and what not.

Just see how many muslim youth even in london wear thobe with pride, how many apne wear chola / baana ? Thats just one point easily observable.

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi
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16 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

To argue over which meat is 'best' and most right': halal or non-halal is like arguing over which paedophile was best and most righteous: Rolf Harris or Gary Glitter. All paedophiles are scum and all meat is scum.

Did you read the above where the problem is highlighted that Sikhs are are thinking that if all meat is bad, then they might as well eat halal? Your saying that "all meat is scum" halal or non-halal is exactly what is leading Sikhs to eat halal meat.

There are two modes of thinking on the issue of meat in Sikhism: One is don't eat meat, and the other is if, for whatever reason, you do eat meat, never, ever eat halal. By preaching #1, and never mentioning #2, the likes of you are virtually pushing Sikhs into kebab shops.

I'm not pushing a chicken wing into your mouth, all I'm asking for is a little moderation, and giving a little bit of guidance for Sikhs who, again for whatever reason, currently don't desist from meat.

Oh, and by the way, halal, non-halal, it's not "all the same". Halal is the thin edge of wedge used by radical Muslims to Islamize a society, India then, and European countries now. The injunction to never eat halal is similar to the orders to always wear a turban, or to wave a whisk over Guru Granth Sahib: It is pushback against radical jihadi Islam, and to prevent becoming a dhimmi (non-Muslim second-class citizen).

Also, I thought you were supposed to be limited to your own thread.

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36 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Did you read the above where the problem is highlighted that Sikhs are are thinking that if all meat is bad, then they might as well eat halal? Your saying that "all meat is scum" halal or non-halal is exactly what is leading Sikhs to eat halal meat.

There are two modes of thinking on the issue of meat in Sikhism: One is don't eat meat, and the other is if, for whatever reason, you do eat meat, never, ever eat halal. By preaching #1, and never mentioning #2, the likes of you are virtually pushing Sikhs into kebab shops.

I'm not pushing a chicken wing into your mouth, all I'm asking for is a little moderation, and giving a little bit of guidance for Sikhs who, again for whatever reason, currently don't desist from meat.

Oh, and by the way, halal, non-halal, it's not "all the same". Halal is the thin edge of wedge used by radical Muslims to Islamize a society, India then, and European countries now. The injunction to never eat halal is similar to the orders to always wear a turban, or to wave a whisk over Guru Granth Sahib: It is pushback against radical jihadi Islam, and to prevent becoming a dhimmi (non-Muslim second-class citizen).

Also, I thought you were supposed to be limited to your own thread.

The vege eaters need to read suraj prakash granth, There's literally countless mentions of Sikhs eating meat in it. Historically there's nothing wrong with keeping a balanced diet, the main issue is eating it purely for the sensation of it, and same goes to the Vege-squad. 

IMO the main issue as you described is 100% the case right now. Sikhs are turning into nothing more than a pseudo-vegan fanatics more or less. The Sikhs that want to eat meat then end up turning to whatever alternative they find. 

 

P.S - before im heckled off this thread I lead a strict Vegetarian diet but I have no ill will or malice towards people like the Nihang Singhs who eat meat. That's their maryada.

Edited by Kira
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1 hour ago, Kira said:

The vege eaters need to read suraj prakash granth, There's literally countless mentions of Sikhs eating meat in it. Historically there's nothing wrong with keeping a balanced diet, the main issue is eating it purely for the sensation of it, and same goes to the Vege-squad. 

IMO the main issue as you described is 100% the case right now. Sikhs are turning into nothing more than a pseudo-vegan fanatics more or less. The Sikhs that want to eat meat then end up turning to whatever alternative they find. 

 

P.S - before im heckled off this thread I lead a strict Vegetarian diet but I have no ill will or malice towards people like the Nihang Singhs who eat meat. That's their maryada.

points are:

1. all kulla maas is off limits because it is killed inhumanely and is not allowed as we can only eat by killing by chatka method

2. Halal/Kosher is especially off limits by Guru Sahiban hukham 

In the west , there is only these choices available for most people so they are better off being veggie , where chatka is available then there is a choice for meat eaters of the sikh faith.

I think most folks have too much to eat already and don't need the extra cholesterol etc

 

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Quote

Did you read the above where the problem is highlighted that Sikhs are are thinking that if all meat is bad, then they might as well eat halal? Your saying that "all meat is scum" halal or non-halal is exactly what is leading Sikhs to eat halal meat.

I don't care what's 'written above me' and I don't care what's 'written below me'. I look upon all eaters of flesh as scum so I value the supposed righteousness in abstaining from halal and eating non-halal as much as I value a paedophile. Paedophiles are scum and so are those cannibals that eat flesh. How does abstaining from halal but eating non-halal make them any more human ? Now, before anyone thinks 'oh here we go' ;another of them AKJ people', let me tell you that I follow no group....I listen to no man...preacher...parcharak and I follow the guidance of noting except my one eternal living Guru: Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. To be a Sikh means something....it means living in a highly conscious way the way our Gurus taught us. Now, in 2017, as a conscious individual (which all Sikhs should be) you know that the meat industry is single-handedly the single biggest contributor to the environmental disaster destroying the world......and yet you still wanna eat dead animals and argue the pros and cons of halal ?   You know Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji teaches you that the environment is in many ways Waheguru and you know the evil meat industry is destroying the environment (Waheguru) and yet you still wanna argue the pros of eating non-halal flesh as opposed to halal flesh ????

Right now, you know I could quite easily write a  thesis right here and now on why you should not be eating animal flesh. But i won't. I'll just repeat what I said at the start of the message in reply to the point you directed at me: I don't care what a flesh eater above me writes and I don't care what a flesh eater below me writes. To me, all flesh eaters are about as moral as a paedophile and their opinions on morals and ethics about as valuable. I don't eat meat...I don't eat dairy.....I don't drink milk. Ain't no jatha, group or parcharak made me follow that route. I went down that route by following the lessons on life and the earth given to us by our living Guru.

 

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On 7/10/2017 at 9:40 PM, ipledgeblue said:

 

I am sandwiched between Slough and Southall areas, I see more sikhs preaching haircuts and shaving than those preaching to keep hair!

Wat kind of "sikhs" actively preach haircuts. You sure they aren't <banned word filter activated> 

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'Drink the immortal nectar and upon joining the Khalsa fold go hunting. Continually seek to perfect your use of weapons. Perform 'Jhatka' and eat goats. Do not even go near Halal meat.'
 
-'Sri Gur Panth Prakash', Ratan Singh Bhangu, pg. 110.
 
7 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Wat kind of "sikhs" actively preach haircuts. You sure they aren't <banned word filter activated> 

lol not actively!!! 

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On 7/10/2017 at 9:24 PM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

I don't care what's 'written above me' and I don't care what's 'written below me'. I look upon all eaters of flesh as scum so I value the supposed righteousness in abstaining from halal and eating non-halal as much as I value a paedophile

By that logic you must consider a helluva lot of your warrior Sikh ancestors to be scum then......

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On ‎09‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 10:17 PM, Guest ChardiKala said:

now serve Halal hot dogs because of only 5% Muslims. None of the Sikhs care about this. Muslims are using Halal

Anyone agree with me?

I agree. I also agree halal is EVERYWHERE in UK. It don't bother me because, it's Muslim's thing. Just like Sikhs get happy seeing a new gurdwara open up Muslims get happy seeing halal place opened (mosque too I guess). BUT we should not enter halal places as it gives us a bad image AND it against rehat to eat Halal (halal is specified in rehat nama)!!!

ALSO! Is this "Hot dog" like, a proper PORK hot dog??:/

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23 minutes ago, Singh1989 said:

I agree. I also agree halal is EVERYWHERE in UK. It don't bother me because, it's Muslim's thing. Just like Sikhs get happy seeing a new gurdwara open up Muslims get happy seeing halal place opened (mosque too I guess). BUT we should not enter halal places as it gives us a bad image AND it against rehat to eat Halal (halal is specified in rehat nama)!!!

ALSO! Is this "Hot dog" like, a proper PORK hot dog??:/

lol definitely not pork if halal, probably halal lamb.

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