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How can we educate sikhs who go to hindu mandirs ? ... How about using reverse psychology ?

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7 hours ago, Kira said:

Have you ever even bothered reading Gurbani? like in any context whatsoever? OP hasn't not taken any of it out of context. Visiting Religious sites is fine, but going there and bashing your head against the stones and proclaiming the certain deity of that temple is lord is really contrary to Gurmat. Those people are fools, and those aren't even my words, they're the words of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. You've attempted to indirectly shame OP for something he's taken directly from Gurmukh and thus are now saying Guru Sahib was not respectful? Sorry to break it to you sunshine but Guru Sahib gave credit when it was due but also pointed out their shortcomings as well.

ਤਾ ਕੌ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਹਨ ਅਨੁਮਾਨਤ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਮੂੜ ਕਛੁ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਜਾਨਤ ॥ ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥

see that word in Gurbani? it literally means great fool. Maybe you should also read Shabad Hazare P10 as well (no im not going to paste it fully here, Don't be lazy and go and read it, unless reading the Gurmukhi script is too hard for you), that's an entire bani warning Sikhs, calling out the hypocrisy and ego of Devtas and why worshipping them (in any contest by anyone) is pointless. Devtas aren't "gods" or even "God" they're simply higher spiritual life-forms. God runs the universe but he also puts the universe to its respected to tasks and assigns everyone a role to play. A playwright with countless actors and countless faces.

So much virtue signalling from someone who claims things are taken out of "context" but can't even sit there and do his own translations or read Gurbani itself. If you did then you'd know nothing was taken out of context. 

 

 

This is becoming a habit for you I see, the word here is You're not Your. Once again, proper grammar is a good tool to have.

So is free thinking,  so please take your faux rage and do one. 

 

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7 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Thing with xtianity is that they've okayed translations of the bible (usually King James) as the full central canon of their faith, I think some confused brothers and sisters who've grown up in the west, think they can access Sikhi like that.

You can't remotely compare reading an English translation of bani with experiencing it in its original form. 

If they think they can access sikhi like that, then they will get a warped version. However the christians bible translations in English are just warped and propaganda like King James or Good News.

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1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

So is free thinking,  so please take your faux rage and do one. 

 

No one's raging, I  just called you out on your nonsense. You've not even bothered learning Gurmukhi but you seem to take it on yourself to lecture others about it. You accused others to taking things out of contexts but you've never even bothered reading the context. You harp on about Nindaks but you're in the same boat being a huge hypocrite. Feel free to lecture others about free thinking after you have the tools to do it, A child isn't going to lecture a professor on the differential calculus without having actually mastered the concepts himself (no this isn't an analogy for you and I, its an example). Free thinking my <banned word filter activated>, by that absurd logic even non-sikhs with no Gurbani knowledge can "free think" about Sikhi and start who knows bastardising concepts. 

Maybe learn the texts before coming on here to lecture others about what's right and what's wrong.

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3 hours ago, singhnihk said:

The more enlightened christians have realised this and converted to other religions, mainly islam. Sikh religion has been misinterpreted too much too many times by too many people. Its followers are not consistent with its teachings at all.  You just have to visit youtube and sikh temples all over the world to witness this. Sikhism and its followers are fusing together with other religions of the world at the moment, mainly islam. You see many sikhs intermarrying and converting, this is surely not a sign of healthy religion or its followers!  Sikhs have many issues amongst their followers as well as with (Gyaanies) those that preach, so, for an outsider like myself, it can be very confusing. Better to follow something that has consistency amongst its followers. It is so easy point fingers or point out weaknesses relating to other religions but you must not forget while you are busy doing this your own religion 'sikhism' is suffering at the hands of those that are powerful as well as who,actually belong to this religion.  Don't also forget in most cases the damage done is irreparable.

I think turban is wat many men find cumbersome to wear daily. Thats not how it shud be unfortunately 

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7 hours ago, Kira said:

No one's raging, I  just called you out on your nonsense. You've not even bothered learning Gurmukhi but you seem to take it on yourself to lecture others about it. You accused others to taking things out of contexts but you've never even bothered reading the context. You harp on about Nindaks but you're in the same boat being a huge hypocrite. Feel free to lecture others about free thinking after you have the tools to do it, A child isn't going to lecture a professor on the differential calculus without having actually mastered the concepts himself (no this isn't an analogy for you and I, its an example). Free thinking my <banned word filter activated>, by that absurd logic even non-sikhs with no Gurbani knowledge can "free think" about Sikhi and start who knows bastardising concepts. 

Maybe learn the texts before coming on here to lecture others about what's right and what's wrong.

As usual rather than address the fundamental contradiction the poster made and how the position is antithetical to sikhi in the most obvious ways you would rather just attack me. 

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6 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

As usual rather than address the fundamental contradiction the poster made and how the position is antithetical to sikhi in the most obvious ways you would rather just attack me. 

Not attacking you Sukh, but it does seem monumentally crazy that you haven't tried to seriously interact with Gurmukhi texts including historical ones. When you do, you'll probably find that a lot of concepts that you thought were Sikh, actually aren't. And that a lot of our puratan ancestors didn't exactly act like you might think they would according to your current thinking. 

Until you do, people will say stuff like the above to you (and not without justification). 

You're at an advantage if you come from a Panjabi background in that the syntax and even some of the vocabulary won't be a million miles from what you already know. A lot of it will involve simply swapping modern Panjabi lexicon with their older forms. 

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1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

As usual rather than address the fundamental contradiction the poster made and how the position is antithetical to sikhi in the most obvious ways you would rather just attack me. 

I did address your points but the fact that you've yet to engage properly with the very core of Sikhi and then have the audacity to come here and lecture others just shows you as a person are ignorant and/or arrogant to what you think you know.

This is the Sheikh Farid thread all over again, you asked for proof, got it and then went off to throw a fit over the fact you were wrong, @dallysingh101 has put it in better words than I. Maybe study the texts before trying to even comment on Sikh Philosophy.

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36 minutes ago, Kira said:

I did address your points but the fact that you've yet to engage properly with the very core of Sikhi and then have the audacity to come here and lecture others just shows you as a person are ignorant and/or arrogant to what you think you know.

This is the Sheikh Farid thread all over again, you asked for proof, got it and then went off to throw a fit over the fact you were wrong, @dallysingh101 has put it in better words than I. Maybe study the texts before trying to even comment on Sikh Philosophy.

You did not address any of the issues.. You made no comment on the actual topic. 

What is your opinion that Sikhs should not attend or visit other places of worship or reverence.

How does this proposition remotely reflect the alignment to Sikh principles? 

So please provide me with a learned response drawing upon your studies of Sikh philosophy 

 

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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

Not attacking you Sukh, but it does seem monumentally crazy that you haven't tried to seriously interact with Gurmukhi texts including historical ones. When you do, you'll probably find that a lot of concepts that you thought were Sikh, actually aren't. And that a lot of our puratan ancestors didn't exactly act like you might think they would according to your current thinking. 

Until you do, people will say stuff like the above to you (and not without justification). 

You're at an advantage if you come from a Panjabi background in that the syntax and even some of the vocabulary won't be a million miles from what you already know. A lot of it will involve simply swapping modern Panjabi lexicon with their older forms. 

I have studied Sikh philosophy for over 30 years and in particular the mool mantar for over 25 years.. 

I have a opinion and I am open to someone providing me with a academic intelligent response to challenge it and provide me with a reason to modify it 

I provided a explanation of my own reasoning behind my position so people should challenge the logic 

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44 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

You did not address any of the issues.. You made no comment on the actual topic. 

What is your opinion that Sikhs should not attend or visit other places of worship or reverence.

How does this proposition remotely reflect the alignment to Sikh principles? 

So please provide me with a learned response drawing upon your studies of Sikh philosophy 

 

Quote

Visiting Religious sites is fine, but going there and bashing your head against the stones and proclaiming the certain deity of that temple is lord is really contrary to Gurmat.

If you read what I wrote I answered why this proposition reflects Sikhi, further more I even referred to an entire bani speaking about worshipping Devtas. Now if you had bothered to read that you'd have noticed that, rather than screaming that about "not actually commenting on the topic" . In fact I did it in layman's terms with the minimal amount of my own words while utilising Gurbani.

Edited by Kira

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1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I have studied Sikh philosophy for over 30 years and in particular the mool mantar for over 25 years.. 

I have a opinion and I am open to someone providing me with a academic intelligent response to challenge it and provide me with a reason to modify it 

I provided a explanation of my own reasoning behind my position so people should challenge the logic 

Dude you made a start which is the most important thing. Now go dig little bit deeper. See where it takes you. Don't make this about other people's opinions by all means, but put in the work yourself and get better informed. These are serious times we live in, there is falseness all around, do yourself a big favour, and don't fall to misapprehensions due to lack of effort. Because these days when a brother or sister falls in one way or another, it hurts the panth deeply. 

Go deeper in your journey. That's advice for all of us I guess, not least myself. 

Guys, lately although I've kept up my simran (but reduced the time), I've gone slack as crap on reading nitnem bani and haven't done it in ages. 

Edited by dallysingh101

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1 minute ago, Kira said:

If you read what I wrote I answered why this proposition reflects Sikhi, further more I even referred to an entire bani speaking about worshipping Devtas. Now if you had bothered to read that you'd have noticed that, rather than screaming that about "not actually commenting on the topic" . In fact I did it in layman's terms with the minimal amount of my own words while utilising Gurbani.

Yes but the original post referred to going to mandir full stop.. I challenged that idea.. You attacked me on something I did not speak about.. 

I agree that doing murti puja.. 

So actually it seems like we agree.. 

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25 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Yes but the original post referred to going to mandir full stop.. I challenged that idea.. You attacked me on something I did not speak about.. 

I agree that doing murti puja.. 

So actually it seems like we agree.. 

OP is clearly referring to sikhs who WORSHIP there. I also challenged the the fact that you claimed OP was taking quotes out of context. Which he was not.

Quote

I have studied Sikh philosophy for over 30 years and in particular the mool mantar for over 25 years..

without learning Gurmukhi? That's not studying, that's toe dipping. If you want the truth behind anything go to the source. You need to start fresh my friend.

Edited by Kira
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