AjeetSinghPunjabi

How can we educate sikhs who go to hindu mandirs ? ... How about using reverse psychology ?

153 posts in this topic

It is always particularly disturbing for me to see a sikh go to any other religious place except a gurudwara . I don't wish to sound fanatic , but the way some (or many?) sikhs go to hindu mandirs , esp durga is particularly disturbing. 

When you have contact with CEO , would you butter a manager ? nopes. when our guru showed us the path to true parbrahm waheguru , then why do we go to the hindu devi devte who're mere creations of waheguru ji .

You would never see a muslim or christian or even a buddhist visit a hindu mandir ? why then it is our sikhs who go and bow to the idols of durga in mandirs when Guru Gobind Singh ji in his zaffarnama clearly stated 

"I vanquished the vicious hill chiefs, they were idol-worshippers and I am idol-breaker." (verse 95) 

In tav prasad chaupai Guru sahib says 

"Anhad roop anahad baani . Charan Saran jeh basat bhavani" 

(Lord's form is limitless and speech is unstruck sound . In his feet, even the goddess durga (bhavani) takes refuge)

How foolish of a sikh to go and worship idol of someone who herself has taken a refuge in the feet of the lord ? How can such sikhs even justify it ?

BTW , the guy I am specifically talking about is half-hindu in the sense that maybe his mom is hindu and so is his wife. He keeps a turban and trimmed beard. 

But , its not about HIM alone. There're many such people in our community who has more sharda on this created hindu devi devte than the shabad Guru.

Its disgusting beyond words .

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know the more you give a lecture to someone, the more stubborn they end up becoming. 

So if you tell these semi-sikh semi-hindu peeps that they're not truly following guru's teachings, they will rather do it more and move even further from Sikhi .

Reverse psychology works this way : 

If a hindu were to insist a sikh to worship hindu gods , fanatically insist , then see how that sikh moves even further from worshipping a hindu god.

People don't like to be lectured... even though it might be good for them . Unfortunately 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They don't require education about the norms of Sikh worship. They're fully aware of their actions. They just don't see the problem with what they're doing. It's a combination of family and cultural hang-ups, religious apathy, and general laziness. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

They don't require education about the norms of Sikh worship. They're fully aware of their actions. They just don't see the problem with what they're doing. It's a combination of family and cultural hang-ups, religious apathy, and general laziness. 

It makes my skin crawl whenever a hindu tells me how SGGS gives shiva, vishnu, and other hindu gods their "due place".(misinterpreting of words shiva vishnu etc ) OR when they tell me to "Go read SGGS. Shiv ji and vishnu ji are mentioned therein". 

As if we owe them a respect in our religion . From my experience with hindus on this matter, I have drawn the inference that they're either ignorant of the truth , or purposely furthering their nefarious agenda. 

However am I a fool to say the former is more likely than the latter, i.e most of them harbor no ill intention and are just having little understanding of depth of gurbani ,

but with right-wing hindutva hindus who have an agenda , when I try to make them understand , these right-wing hinduists claim I make a wild interpretation of gurbani , quickly tossed with the word "Khalistani" for me. 

Apparently , sooner than later, any sikh who insists on his identity independent of baahmanwaad will be seen as a "Khalistani".

This is how you eliminate a people . Branding them terrorist is easier to wipe them. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj in one of his 52 hukams said "Follow gurbani , but study scriptures of other religions as well".

How else can we arm ourselves in ideological debates. Remember, war will not always be by shastar , its also about war of ideology.

Maharaj knew what he were talking about. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

It is always particularly disturbing for me to see a sikh go to any other religious place except a gurudwara . I don't wish to sound fanatic , but the way some (or many?) sikhs go to hindu mandirs , esp durga is particularly disturbing. 

When you have contact with CEO , would you butter a manager ? nopes. when our guru showed us the path to true parbrahm waheguru , then why do we go to the hindu devi devte who're mere creations of waheguru ji .

You would never see a muslim or christian or even a buddhist visit a hindu mandir ? why then it is our sikhs who go and bow to the idols of durga in mandirs when Guru Gobind Singh ji in his zaffarnama clearly stated 

"I vanquished the vicious hill chiefs, they were idol-worshippers and I am idol-breaker." (verse 95) 

In tav prasad chaupai Guru sahib says 

"Anhad roop anahad baani . Charan Saran jeh basat bhavani" 

(Lord's form is limitless and speech is unstruck sound . In his feet, even the goddess durga (bhavani) takes refuge)

How foolish of a sikh to go and worship idol of someone who herself has taken a refuge in the feet of the lord ? How can such sikhs even justify it ?

BTW , the guy I am specifically talking about is half-hindu in the sense that maybe his mom is hindu and so is his wife. He keeps a turban and trimmed beard. 

But , its not about HIM alone. There're many such people in our community who has more sharda on this created hindu devi devte than the shabad Guru.

Its disgusting beyond words .

Were your ancestors not Hindu? Why treat Hindus and Hinduism so badly. 

Unless you would really like to be  Hindu instead. Im sure you probably look like one.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Big_Tera said:

Were your ancestors not Hindu? Why treat Hindus and Hinduism so badly. 

Unless you would really like to be  Hindu instead. Im sure you probably look like one.

Were your ancestors not hindu ?? this is the same kind of argument sanghis make . Most likely you're one undercover hindutva agent lol. BTW hinduism and hindutva are two different things just like islam and islamism . 

I don't look hindu. I wear turban and have beard. Nowhere have I treated hindus or hinduism badly. Unless you're with your head in deep sand, its easy to see how the right-wingers plot against us 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IF they are just going INSIDE mandir then nothing wrong. but obviously they are probably worshipping idols which isn't the way for nirguna pooja. We respect sarguna, but don't do pooja of this sort. The only chandi pooja we do is practising pf sword in sri bhagauti. to worship in standing idol form is useless for us.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Were your ancestors not hindu ?? this is the same kind of argument sanghis make . Most likely you're one undercover hindutva agent lol. BTW hinduism and hindutva are two different things just like islam and islamism . 

I don't look hindu. I wear turban and have beard. Nowhere have I treated hindus or hinduism badly. Unless you're with your head in deep sand, its easy to see how the right-wingers plot against us 

Just for the record. I'd rather have a Hindu Panjabi in the family than [DELETED- Paji due to rules on forum please refrain from posting such slurs in future. Thank you]

Let's ask that question to the wider sangat. What would you find easier to accept? 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Just for the record. I'd rather have a Hindu Panjabi in the family than a gandu with a dastaar. 

Let's ask that question to the wider sangat. What would you find easier to accept? 

Reported for using homophobic and vulgar slangs 

Beta , tere inni mircha kyu lagiya ? I was referring to sikhs who go to temples. And I wasn't even abusive to hinduism or hindu gods in my post.

Where do you owe your allegiance , it is clear ! 

Also you better stop referring to my sexuality again and again . Debate me with logically rather than making personal attacks.

[DELETED]

So that term doesn't really applies to me . See you're now forcing me to be vulgar just like you're . 

Actually just get lost , don't talk to me ever again.

I would take gurbani as the parameter and not the wider sangat to decide on an issue.

@MisterrSingh , Can we report this RSS guy here ? he's been attacking me personally on my orientation since day one. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

IF they are just going INSIDE mandir then nothing wrong. but obviously they are probably worshipping idols which isn't the way for nirguna pooja. We respect sarguna, but don't do pooja of this sort. The only chandi pooja we do is practising pf sword in sri bhagauti. to worship in standing idol form is useless for us.

well said 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Reported for using homophobic and vulgar slangs 

 

@MisterrSingh , Can we report this RSS guy here ? he's been attacking me personally on my orientation since day one. 

It's okay for you to go off on monay and Hindus though. Get a taste of your own medicine boy. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@AjeetSinghPunjabi

16 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Where do you owe your allegiance , it is clear ! 

You think I should have some sort of allegiance to homosexuality? 

Are you sure those Hindus you hate aren't ripping into you because you are acting effeminate? And don't try and deny that you do. You admitted as much when you first come on the forum, then lately you're claiming otherwise. 

But then maybe many gay people aren't actually aware of when they are acting 'camp' or don't have much of an idea of how it looks to non gay men? 

Just for literary and historical interest (for those into these things): the term g@ndu (which has offended Ajeet)  is actually used a few times in Rattan Bhangu's Panth Prakash. Just a interesting little tidbit there. 

Edited by dallysingh101
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

@AjeetSinghPunjabi

 

Just for literary and historical interest (for those into these things): the term g@ndu (which has offended Ajeet)  is actually used a few times in Rattan Bhangu's Panth Prakash. Just a interesting little tidbit there. 

So now ur mixing your homophobia in Sikh history. 

Is there any limit to how much u lie. I didn't find anything u mentioned in panth parkash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

So now ur mixing your homophobia in Sikh history. 

Is there any limit to how much u lie. I didn't find anything u mentioned in panth parkash

You must have done a half-ar5ed job if you missed it. I'll try and find them again for you when I get some time. 

And look, I haven't got a problem with homosexuality. But given where I am right now, (in the UK), I do have a big problem with ANY Sikh men acting effeminate, even more so if they are wearing a dastaar. It just sends out a weak message and men from other communities respond accordingly. 

Thank Waheguru you are not here. 

Edited by dallysingh101
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

You must have done a half-ar5ed job if you missed it. I'll try and find them again for you when I get some time. 

And look, I haven't got a problem with homosexuality. But given where I am right now, (in the UK), I do have a big problem with ANY Sikh men acting effeminate, even more so if they are wearing a dastaar. It just sends out a weak message and men from other communities respond accordingly. 

Thank Waheguru you are not here. 

I agree and I am pro gay goo rights ect. When men start acting like women in Sikh saroop it's not a good outlook. On top of spiritual aspect, when someone is initiated with Khande di pahul, you're literally a soldier in Khalsa and should act as such. Debated a couple sulleh from UK a while back and average hippy lib apna would have said ve are believings 1 luv we r sorry for offendings joo. I was pretty direct and told him straight same things I would post here and in end he apologized and said he respected Sikhs.

When you have abrahamic faiths who don't understand prema bhagti and prem in general - they only respect tribal alpha maleness.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Singh559 said:

I agree and I am pro gay goo rights ect. When men start acting like women in Sikh saroop it's not a good outlook. On top of spiritual aspect, when someone is initiated with Khande di pahul, you're literally a soldier in Khalsa and should act as such. Debated a couple <banned word filter activated> from UK a while back and average hippy lib apna would have said ve are believings 1 luv we r sorry for offendings joo. I was pretty direct and told him straight same things I would post here and in end he apologized and said he respected Sikhs.

When you have abrahamic faiths who don't understand prema bhagti and prem in general - they only respect tribal alpha maleness.

Let's be real too. Dasmesh pita made a hyper-masculine identity with the Khalsa. One that led blokes to smack jihadis into oblivion despite being heavily outnumbered and outresourced. 

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, dallysingh101 said:

Let's be real too. Dasmesh pita made a hyper-masculine identity with the Khalsa. One that led blokes to smack jihadis into oblivion despite being heavily outnumbered and outresourced. 

Exactly, this new pseudo-feminist movement that is discouraging men from being men is infiltrating psyche of even keshdhari Sikhs into feeling guilty for this bakhshish of Guru Sahib. Problem with hyper-masculine identity is when we are uneducated in worldly and spiritual.

Honestly don't mind seeing even a bit of unchecked hypermasculination of our generation - we definitely need it.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Singh559 said:

Exactly, this new pseudo-feminist movement that is discouraging men from being men is infiltrating psyche of even keshdhari Sikhs into feeling guilty for this bakhshish of Guru Sahib. Problem with hyper-masculine identity is when we are uneducated in worldly and spiritual.

Honestly don't mind seeing even a bit of unchecked hypermasculination of our generation - we definitely need it.

This is the consequence of white man's long term plan for us. First disarm us and destroy our economic independence , then distort our religion to make it weak (i.e. from Sikhi to 'Sikhism'), promote low IQ culture of drinking and barn-dancing as a norm, and now the last stroke - turn men into he-b1tches. 

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

You must have done a half-ar5ed job if you missed it. I'll try and find them again for you when I get some time. 

And look, I haven't got a problem with homosexuality. But given where I am right now, (in the UK), I do have a big problem with ANY Sikh men acting effeminate, even more so if they are wearing a dastaar. It just sends out a weak message and men from other communities respond accordingly. 

Thank Waheguru you are not here. 

Btw may I ask whats ur age ? because such homophobic attitudes certainly aren't common among britain's youth, as per polls.

Are you above 60 ? 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Let's be real too. Dasmesh pita made a hyper-masculine identity with the Khalsa. One that led blokes to smack jihadis into oblivion despite being heavily outnumbered and outresourced. 

where's our hyper masculine identity when our young girls get lured by cutbullahs in UK and elsewhere ? We're so so different from our historical co-religionists that some might as well go on to say we fabricated a sikh history of brave soormas. We're nothing like that, as you said our youth grow up mollycuddled, in other thread.

Apparently , a gay man is easier target for you . So you attack them whereas they're the least of your priorities, when infact the kaum is plagued by plethora of other issues staring us in the face. Can we focus on those brother ?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

where's our hyper masculine identity when our young girls get lured by cutbullahs in UK and elsewhere ? We're so so different from our historical co-religionists that some might as well go on to say we fabricated a sikh history of brave soormas. We're nothing like that, as you said our youth grow up mollycuddled, in other thread.

Apparently , a gay man is easier target for you . So you attack them whereas they're the least of your priorities, when infact the kaum is plagued by plethora of other issues staring us in the face. Can we focus on those brother ?

okay

Edited by Big_Tera
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2017 at 8:00 PM, Singh559 said:

I agree and I am pro gay goo rights ect. When men start acting like women in Sikh saroop it's not a good outlook. On top of spiritual aspect, when someone is initiated with Khande di pahul, you're literally a soldier in Khalsa and should act as such. Debated a couple <banned word filter activated> from UK a while back and average hippy lib apna would have said ve are believings 1 luv we r sorry for offendings joo. I was pretty direct and told him straight same things I would post here and in end he apologized and said he respected Sikhs.

When you have abrahamic faiths who don't understand prema bhagti and prem in general - they only respect tribal alpha maleness.

swear down this was going through my mind in some portions of your post.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Kira said:

swear down this was going through my mind in some portions of your post.

 

Classic! haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I already said that, read the thread!
    • You can't really convert you more adopt the principles 
    •   Perfect Guidance from the Bani, on what we should devote,and how should we devote Him, in the form of Artee.   ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਆਰਤੀ ਮਜਨੁ ਮੁਰਾਰੇ ॥ Naam Thaero Aarathee Majan Muraara Your Name, Lord, is my adoration and cleansing bath   ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਝੂਠੇ ਸਗਲ ਪਾਸਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Har Kae Naam Bin Jhoothae Sagal Paasaarae ||1|| Rehaao || Without the Name of the Lord, all ostentatious displays are useless   ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਆਸਨੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਉਰਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੇਸਰੋ ਲੇ ਛਿਟਕਾਰੇ ॥ Naam Thaero Aasano Naam Thaero Ourasaa Naam Thaeraa Kaesaro Lae Shhittakaarae || Your Name is my prayer mat, and Your Name is the stone to grind the sandalwood. Your Name is the saffron which I take and sprinkle in offering to You.   ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਭੁਲਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਚੰਦਨੋ ਘਸਿ ਜਪੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਕਉ ਚਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ Naam Thaeraa Anbhulaa Naam Thaero Chandhano Ghas Japae Naam Lae Thujhehi Ko Chaarae ||1|| Your Name is the water, and Your Name is the sandalwood. The chanting of Your Name is the grinding of the sandalwood. I take it and offer all this to You. ||1||   ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਦੀਵਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਬਾਤੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਤੇਲੁ ਲੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਪਸਾਰੇ ॥ Naam Thaeraa Dheevaa Naam Thaero Baathee Naam Thaero Thael Lae Maahi Pasaarae || Your Name is the lamp, and Your Name is the wick. Your Name is the oil I pour into it.   ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ ਭਇਓ ਉਜਿਆਰੋ ਭਵਨ ਸਗਲਾਰੇ ॥੨॥ Naam Thaerae Kee Joth Lagaaee Bhaeiou Oujiaaro Bhavan Sagalaarae ||2|| Your Name is the light applied to this lamp, which enlightens and illuminates the entire world. ||2||   ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਤਾਗਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਫੂਲ ਮਾਲਾ ਭਾਰ ਅਠਾਰਹ ਸਗਲ ਜੂਠਾਰੇ ॥ Naam Thaero Thaagaa Naam Fool Maalaa Bhaar Athaareh Sagal Joothaarae || Your Name is the thread, and Your Name is the garland of flowers. The eighteen loads of vegetation are all too impure to offer to You.   ਤੇਰੋ ਕੀਆ ਤੁਝਹਿ ਕਿਆ ਅਰਪਉ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਚਵਰ ਢੋਲਾਰੇ ॥੩॥ Thaero Keeaa Thujhehi Kiaa Arapo Naam Thaeraa Thuhee Chavar Dtolaarae ||3|| Why should I offer to You, that which You Yourself created? Your Name is the fan, which I wave over You. ||3||   ਦਸ ਅਠਾ ਅਠਸਠੇ ਚਾਰੇ ਖਾਣੀ ਇਹੈ ਵਰਤਣਿ ਹੈ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰੇ ॥ Dhas Athaa Athasathae Chaarae Khaanee Eihai Varathan Hai Sagal Sansaarae || The whole world is engrossed in the eighteen Puraanas, the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and the four sources of creation.   ਕਹੈ ਰਵਿਦਾਸੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਆਰਤੀ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਭੋਗ ਤੁਹਾਰੇ ॥੪॥੩॥ Kehai Ravidhaas Naam Thaero Aarathee Sath Naam Hai Har Bhog Thuhaarae ||4||3|| Says Ravi Daas, Your Name is my Aartee, my lamp-lit worship-service. The True Name, Sat Naam, is the food which I offer to You.   Just amazing...just beautiful... Sat Bani Sat Sree Akal.  
    • Blase means to be indifferent or unconcerned. However, you perceive my writing on Dasam Bani being reintroduced to be both nonchalant (why don't we bring in another French word) but also emotional and angry at the same time. That kind of makes for an oxymoron; contradictory terms.  When attempting to have any genuine and fruitful discussion I have experienced it is helpful to not speculate or make conjecture about the viewpoints of another. If curious or in doubt, just ask; ask with the innocent interest of a child. Other genuine level-headed people will gladly oblige. Fools like myself may otherwise find injury in your guesswork.   Bringing in Samparda Kathavachaks fixes the symptom not the illness. The root problem that will fester and multiply is unaddressed. Is this a strategy for the long term that will bring unity and togetherness in the Panth? No. I have posted an excerpt of my last post on this topic below for your convenience, often my arguments become TL;DR.     Again, conjecture and scorn for a person you genuinely want to have dialogue with may not be useful. Some may misinterpret your heartfelt intentions.   If I'm not mistaken, it was rescinded after just two years!  Here is the difference: When the Sikhs took the jagir from the Mughals, they took it after deliberation, discussion, and the approval of the Sarbat Khalsa Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma has built no such discussion and consensus building into his strategy, not even with the Sant Samaj. Heaps of them condemn his political choices.  Getting the discourse changed to Gurmat is good. But the underlying problems remain unaddressed; problems that do the most to hold the Panth back as outlined in my above post.  The jagir allowed the Sikhs to consolidate different jathas under the leadership of Kapur Singh into the Dal Khalsa. Factions were brought together.  They used the political calm to develop their autonomous power and establish their sovereignty This was political power and control that they were able to grow for the Panth. The jagir was taken away very quickly, but look at what they accomplished in that time. The Khalsa was brought together in unity to fight for our future prosperity.  I highly doubt the SIkhs who had been hunted down by Zakariya Khan suddenly became enthralled by his friendship. They took the jagir in a collective, panthic decision and likely knew they could be double-crossed. But they mustered their forces and were in a stronger position for when it did happen.  In all the major issues of the Panth that I have outlined in my previous posts, Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma has made little headway in ameliorating them.  No political autonomy is established for the Panth. The Indian government regulated the SGPC, the SGPC in turn is run by Badal and the Shiromani Akali Dal (Badal). There is no autonomy or control of the Panth in its own affairs, we are led by the string where the political elite wish to go.  As I stated previously: Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma's strategy gives the Panth no autonomy, no control, and he has not pushed forward the Panth's interests in any worthwhile long-lasting way.