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Jonny101

Christian woman spreading pure hate against Gurus

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Where are the Sikh missionaries now to answer this Christian woman or is all their energies only going to be spent on spreading hate against Dasam Granth and fellow Sikhs.

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Guest Jacfsing2

I listened to only the first few seconds of this clip, and it's clear she comes from a hate-mongering view point. If you were expecting anything from the Missionary Jatha, they will just stand in saying, "All religions are equal" B.S.

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Seems like while our kaum's eyes were on dawahist islamic etxremists we had some sly black christian extremist groups who have been grooming british punjabi girls of Sikh families for relationships and eventual conversion to Christianity and here this one girl called raj jerett who probably ran off with her black christian boyfriend is on stage abusing Sikhi and Guru Ji's, while Christians in the clip clap and cheer her on. It reminds me of when hizb ut tahir and al mahajroun the 2 islamic extremists groups in 1995 who had allegedly converted 2 sikh girls on stage in london who went on to abuse sikhism and guru's seems like these evil abrahmic cults have the same tactics and agenda.

This video seems like was uploaded by a chrisitan org originally 7years ago long before the current controversial viral videos between sikhs and Christians in punjab.

 

Edited by genie
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One thing i noticed is difference between western born people converting to Sikhi and Christians converting gullible punjabis is that the westerners convert to Sikhi usually by no help from Sikhs at all. They learn from books or online about Sikhism and get interested so decide to convert. Whereas Christians actively promote their faith like muslims do to get non-believers to convert they have sly leaflets how to target Sikhs by first falsely claiming our Guru is same as what Jesus taught, then after inviting them to church and before you know it davinder becomes david on the sly while still wearing a pagh to fool other Sikhs into joining the abrahmic middle eastern cult.

So that begs the question whats the strategic value in converting punjab to Christianity? Whats their long term aim and goal? Its the same as muslims its power and control over the masses for the human resource power centre's in the west. Just as saudi arabia and iran are control power centre's for branches of Islam. demographics population numbers win wars, huge numbers vote in democracies and forming or swaying governments.

So we can see why they trying to target Sikhs and Hindus for conversions especially those of  chamar / ravidassia / dalit "low caste" backgrounds who are larger in number and often disenfranchised in Indian society.

Edited by genie
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Every time someone converts from one religion to another it's used for maximum PR, Christians and Muslim organisations are notorious for it but you can't force someone to believe in something of they don't want to, simple as, by doing that your causing more harm than good, in the case of the original story, I've met people with views a lot worse than that, it used to offend me at first but know i just don't give it the time of day, there's more important things in the world.

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Most blacks are incredibly gullible when it comes to being corralled in issues of religion or even social causes that are ironically to their detriment. They are followers in nature, even when they assume they're leading. A tiny minority of blacks who are capable of seeing the truth are hated and verbally abused into silence so that the majority can continue to play the blame game. 

A few of the notable figureheads of the various jathe and parchaar groups who reside in Punjab are currently touring North America on lucrative kirtan tours designed to rake in the dollars. Perhaps they should refocus their collective efforts on the Punjabi population back home, in order to prevent vulnerable people being drawn into the arms of these Christian missionaries. Sikhs converting to Christianity in India can be traced to government policies that put the squeeze on some of the vulnerable and desperate members of that society. 

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Well at least Sikhs can see the growing threat of Christianity and christian missionaries in punjab and not let the toad boil slowly as deceptive sly Christians takes over Sikh punjab like a cancer.

Its a good thing this tension is happening cos now Sikhs in punjab will actively fight and Akali Dal / SGPC will be forced to keep an eye on Christians instead of concentrating on hindutva idiots who do not pose the immediate demographic danger that abrahmic cults of Christianity and Islam do.

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11 hours ago, genie said:

One thing i noticed is difference between western born people converting to Sikhi and Christians converting gullible punjabis is that the westerners convert to Sikhi usually by no help from Sikhs at all. They learn from books or online about Sikhism and get interested so decide to convert. Whereas Christians actively promote their faith like muslims do to get non-believers to convert they have sly leaflets how to target Sikhs by first falsely claiming our Guru is same as what Jesus taught, then after inviting them to church and before you know it davinder becomes david on the sly while still wearing a pagh to fool other Sikhs into joining the abrahmic middle eastern cult.

So that begs the question whats the strategic value in converting punjab to Christianity? Whats their long term aim and goal? Its the same as muslims its power and control over the masses for the human resource power centre's in the west. Just as saudi arabia and iran are control power centre's for branches of Islam. demographics population numbers win wars, huge numbers vote in democracies and forming or swaying governments.

So we can see why they trying to target Sikhs and Hindus for conversions especially those of  chamar / ravidassia / dalit "low caste" backgrounds who are larger in number and often disenfranchised in Indian society.

it's simple land/power/money grabbing , most Indian christians at moment are poor, landless dalits , whereas Punjabis have land and money plus sikh conditioning to  donate daswand  without complaint. Since Badal stole money from golak to build churches and hindu temples , the other faiths think why not cut out the middle man

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19 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

Let me clarify that I have nothing against Christians in the West. They are mostly quite mellow, and we are living peaceably in such countries, and they're not bothering us, nor we them.

I do strongly oppose aggressive proselytization tactics. If the Christians want to make a deal at the Akal Takhat not to try to poach Sikhs, then we can agree not to poach Christians. Otherwise, game on.

It seems that the Christian bishops of Punjab have sued for peace and went to the Akal Takhat. 

"He [the Bishop] said efforts were being made to make the Christian woman tender an apology for her objectionable remarks against Sikhism." As such, I think we should show a magnanimous approach.

2017_7$largeimg01_Saturday_2017_00541715

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/bishop-urges-akal-takht-chief-to-appeal-for-peace/429962.html

Note: I hope this thread is not sidetracked by an extensive discussion about the incumbent Jathedar. I will say that issues related to the abortive forgiveness to the Sirsa saadh has weakened the Akal Takhat. Also, situations like this are exactly why we need an Akal Takhat, and a Jathedar. It's not enough, like some "missionaries" like to say, that Guru Granth Sahib is the only Jathedar we need.

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Anyone willing to help expose the filth in bible teachings and in Christianity overall? It's time we give punjabi Christians scumbags a little pay back for all their sly conversions and digs they have been doing to Sikhi over their years without any reaction from Sikhs. 

Its time the Sikhs on mass expose Christianity.

e.g

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery.  How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

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4 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

it's simple land/power/money grabbing , most Indian christians at moment are poor, landless dalits , whereas Punjabis have land and money plus sikh conditioning to  donate daswand  without complaint. Since Badal stole money from golak to build churches and hindu temples , the other faiths think why not cut out the middle man

One of the questions I have is in the West where we have accumulated wealth and prospered there is a need to give back in one way or another and people give back generously.  In some ways donated dasvandh is a manifestation of that. Do land owning and moneyed Sikhs in Punjab have the same need to give back like Western Sikhs or are they more apathetic?

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3 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

One of the questions I have is in the West where we have accumulated wealth and prospered there is a need to give back in one way or another and people give back generously.  In some ways donated dasvandh is a manifestation of that. Do land owning and moneyed Sikhs in Punjab have the same need to give back like Western Sikhs or are they more apathetic?

dasvand is given of all received blessings time, money, food and drink this is a sign of gratitude it also keeps a person thinking of others everyday not just on certain days or months only like other faiths

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Dasvand in the past was set up as a sort of charitable tax that Sikhs had to give to keep the kaum going.

Nowdays Sikhs are paying so much tax in many services and to govt that dasvand does not work for most Sikh families so they dont give any charity for fellow needy Sikhs. And even if they do give charity its to some non-sikh cause. And this has a huge demoralisation affect on poor and needy Sikhs left to fend for themselves making easy pickings for rich islamic and christian charities eager to increase their numbers and take over regions for political reasons.

Dasvand needs to be in line with the tax people pay in everyday life and from that they can calculate how much they need to give to fellow Sikhs.

The islamics are 1.3 billion strong and give to charity actively but only give to muslim charities who only cater for muslims in 50+ muslim countries. This is what purtatan Sikhs of the past used to be only helping and giving charity to fellow Sikhs and thus people would convert to Sikhi even just to get aid but after they got aid they became loyal followers of Sikh teachings.

We need to go back to basics...

Edited by genie
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    • Ok, so it’s gone from rotian to daal/sabji to paneer to saag to smoothies to chywanprash to sukha to trolls to goreh to compromise. I wonder if it will go back to thorka again 🙃😏
    • Here is a pauri by Guru Nanak Dev ji which addresses some of these issues: ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੩੭    ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਆਪੁ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ The Immaculate Lord Himself, by Himself, created Himself. ਆਪੇ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇਓਨੁ ਸਭੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਸਬਾਇਆ ॥ He Himself created the whole drama of all the world's play. ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਆਪਿ ਸਿਰਜਿਅਨੁ ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਇਆ ॥ He Himself formed the three gunas, the three qualities; He increased the attachment to Maya. ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਉਬਰੇ ਜਿਨ ਭਾਣਾ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ By Guru's Grace, they are saved - those who love the Will of God. ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਸਭ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ O Nanak, the True Lord is pervading everywhere; all are contained within the True Lord. ||1||   The shabad states that God created the creation and maya (illusion). The Guru grants Grace and saves those who love God's will. Those who love God's Will will be saved. Meanwhile, the likes of your "friend" will remain entangled in fruitless philosophical arguments. Note: I may quibble with the translation of the first line. Some scholars think that when Gurbani talks of God "creating Himself", it's referring to establishing himself in the Universe.
    • If your "friend" wants to know exactly "how" God created the creation, I would say that that's a totally worthless question. Why does he need to know "how" God created the world and infused with Maya (3 qualities and 5 vices)? Is he planning to create a universe anytime soon? About such philosophical exercises, Guru ji says: ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ 
      Hundreds of thousands of clever thoughts, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end. 
    • Your Christian "friend"''s multiple questions basically just boil down to this one question. The answer is simply that God desired to create the world (Maya) as his divine play, called "khel". Principal Sahib Singh, his his Darpan, quoted many lines from Gurbani that reference "khel": ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ ਖੇਲੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੰ੍ਰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਿਚ ਕਈ ਵਾਰੀ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ; ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਵਜੋਂ 

      ਸੁਪਨੰਤਰੁ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਸਭੁ ਸਭੁ ਬਾਜੀ ਖੇਲੁ ਖਿਲਾਵੈਗੇ ॥ ਲਾਹਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਲੈ ਚਾਲਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਗਹ ਪੈਧਾ 
      ਜਾਵੈਗੋ ॥੫॥੫॥ ਕਾਨੜਾ ਮ: ੪ ਅਸਟਪਦੀ 

      ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਰੁ ਹੈ ਊਤਮੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਇਕੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਵਰਤੈ ਸਭੁ 
      ਜਗਤੁ ਕੀਆ ਵਣਜਾਰਾ ॥੪॥ ਕਾਨੜੇ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ 

      ਜੈਸੇ ਹਰਹਟ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਟਿੰਡ ਲਗਤ ਹੈ ॥ ਇਕ ਸਖਨੀ ਹੋਰ ਫੇਰ ਭਰੀਅਤ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੀ ਇਹ ਖੇਲੁ 
      ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਜਿਉ ਉਸ ਕੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥੨॥੮॥ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ਮ: ੧ 

      ਆਪੇ ਭਾਂਤ ਬਣਾਏ ਬਹੁਰੰਗੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਕਰੇ ਕਰਾਏ ਸਰਬ 
      ਜੀਆ ਨੋ ਰਿਜਕੁ ਦੀਆ ॥੧॥੬॥ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ਮ: ੩ 

      ਪੀਤ ਬਸਨ ਕੁੰਦ-ਦਸਨ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਸਹਿਤ ਕੰਠ ਮਾਲ ਮੁਕਟੁ ਸੀਸਿ ਮੋਰ ਪੰਖ ਚਾਰਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਬੇਵਜੀਰ ਬਡੇ ਧੀਰ 
      ਧਰਮ ਅੰਗ ਅਲਖ ਅਗਮ ਖੇਲੁ ਕੀਆ ਆਪਣੈ ਉਛਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥੮॥ ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਚੌਥੇ ਕੇ, 
      ਗਯੰਦ 

      ਕੀਆ ਖੇਲੁ ਬਡਮੇਲੁ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥ ਵਾਹਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇਰੀ ਸਭ ਰਚਨਾ ॥ ਤੂ ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਗਗਨਿ ਪਯਾਲਿ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਾ 
      ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਤੇ ਮੀਠੇ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬਚਨਾ ॥੩॥੧੩॥੪੨॥ ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਚੌਥੇ ਕੇ, ਗਯੰਦ 

      ਸੋ, 
      ਖੇਲੁ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ ਹੈ ਜਗਤ-ਰੂਪ ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ  In the end, he defines "khel" as the world drama. Note: In the pre-creation state, there was no sin, nor charity. From Sukhmani Sahib: ਜਬ ਅਕਾਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਕਛੁ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥ When this world had not yet appeared in any form, ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਤਬ ਕਹ ਤੇ ਹੋਤਾ ॥ Who then committed sins and performed good deeds? ਜਬ ਧਾਰੀ ਆਪਨ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧਿ ॥ When the Lord Himself was in Profound Samaadhi, ਤਬ ਬੈਰ ਬਿਰੋਧ ਕਿਸੁ ਸੰਗਿ ਕਮਾਤਿ ॥ Then against whom were hate and jealousy directed?   There are many lines that could be quoted, but this sums things up nicely (21st astpadi of Sukhmani): ਸਲੋਕੁ ॥ Shalok: ਸਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਆਪਿ ॥ He possesses all qualities; He transcends all qualities; He is the Formless Lord. He Himself is in Primal Samaadhi. ਆਪਨ ਕੀਆ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਜਾਪਿ ॥੧॥ Through His Creation, O Nanak, He meditates on Himself. ||1||   And so, the command for us, too, is to meditate on God. And that's how your "friend's" questions will be answered, if he's sincere.
    • I wound up in your irc before finding this place. It was just empty at the time. 
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