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Singh1989

Reasons we should never compel others into Sikh way of life

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Sangat Jio, 

If you're an Amritdhari great. If Keshdhari good. Keep on doing what YOU'RE doing. I know a close friend of my father. She, her husband and their father are all practising Sikhs (their dad passed away and these two are late 50's). However, I am ashamed and saddened to say this, they boasted great lengths of being Amritdhaaris, so much so they would literally force and compel others into taking Amrit. Many reading this may be picturing they put a sword/ shotgun to a mona/ Keshdhaari's head and threatened to them to take Amrit... DON'T WORRY! Wasn't that dramatic. 

The woman's a close friend of my father, due to Business reasons they often would see one another. But the meeting's reduced greatly today. Anyways I do not know about my father but my mum? She felt forced into having taken amrit about 20 years ago. She had to endure "Your husband's amritdhaari why aren't you?" Apart from the friend many more other old buddias were also an influence like this on to my mum. 

Now, tough hearted women can deal with such people that force them. Okay once, twice you may tell someone to go get baptised but constantly??? THEN the tough hearted women/ men has to bring out her tough side and shout and yell at them to "Stop pestering me!" or "Am warning you, stop forcing me!" In a loud and clear voice. Unfortunately, my mum was not that tough hearted and carried on listening, hoping one day they'd stop... But no. My mum too ended up taking Amrit. Today my mum talks about leaving Amrit behind but she feels she cannot (scared of after death more than husband). At the same time she might? My mum's in a dilemma. 

My mum had told my father to keep hair but at least don't take Amrit. He took Amrit. More than the woman and her husband, the woman's father in law was the WORST! Any monis that came to him during house prayer sessions he would not even look them in the eye, just sit their with a big frown and hope the monis left. He treated moni kids in the same manner. He qualified himself as "Anyone wishing me to even smile on them must keep hair." The clever folks never or hardly attended house prayers. My father had made every effort to attend ALL functions and took my unwilling to go mum. 

END OF THE DAY AFTER THEIR FATHER DIED...

Slowly all the grandsons (aged young kids and the then teens) cut all their hair. Nearly all grandsons are moni/ trimmed beards. Only one granddaughter is practising and one granddaughter HAS CUT ALL HER GAIR AND MARRIED A WHITE MAN!!! I REPEAT SHE MARRIED A WHITE MAN!!! THIS IS THE FRIEND'S VERY OWN DAUGHTER!!!! SANGAT JIO! Let this be a lesson for showing so much Ahankar. OKAY! If you wish to tell others just tell them once to take Amrit. If you really want to tell then hold programs at the Gurdwara/ become like a Giani ji or a techer where you take out time explaining Sikhi and Amrit DO IT IN A NICE WAY! The effected Sangat will have so much kirpa where they take Amrit thanks to you. You taught them, gave them reasons. 

But the way these 3 did it? They JUST stated to take Amrit to anyone. LOOK WHERE THEIR EGO GOT THEM! Today these 2 don't dare mention to anyone to take Amrit. After all their kid's fiesta they stopped stating the obvious of Amrit, long hairs and "What if you die tomorrow?" emotional blackmails. REQUEST! If you want others to take Amrit and feel the need to tell them hold programs of Katha and Kirtan at the gurdwara. If sangat turns up it means they're already interested in Sangat, Simran and seva. Teach them about the 10 Guru's, translate to them the Guru Granth Sahib, talk about Amrit, talk about society and Brahm Giania da jeevan in a discussion session. 

IF they're taken Amrit/ kept hair fantastic. If not just think "Hey, with Akaal Purkh's kirpa I am merely doing my part and they'll take care of the rest." Don't get saddened seeing the SAME mona walk up 10 years into the sangat and think "Does this person even pay attention to my katha?" I was ever so fortunate to have such a teacher. I was inspired to take Amrit and not compelled. Even today I feel happy and with Kirpa I keep doing what am doing. The reason I walked into the katha program was because it as in English, many other youths were there and the Gurdwara gave the platform where katha was held in English by the teacher, we learned about Seva, Gurbani's hukmnama was translated and discussion of Sikh History was told. THIS IS ONE WAY OF TELLING OTHERS ABOUT AMRIT, BUT SHOULD THEY TAKE IT OR NOT TAKE IT AND STILL DO SANGAT, SIMRAN AND SEVA SHOULD BE LEFT UP TO THEM!!! 

Let's face it, NO ONE can make you happy. Ok so you tell a mona "Keep hair," they have. You then say "Take Amrit," they have. Do you suppose you'll find ANY santokh?? A few months later "Are you doing your Nitnem, no??" Neither you will be santokh and instead you'll feel sad! Then their's the teacher! He see's the same mona walk in ten years and he'll feel pleased that this guy's at least getting Sangat and Simran (Minimum) and how he's not the only guy here, but many others kept hair and many others took Amrit because of the program held. 

SANGAT JIO! Telling others about Amrit is a HUGE responsibility and there's a best way of doing it and an ahankari's way of doing it, which'll get YOU and the people you forced nowhere in life. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Singh1989 said:

Sangat Jio, 

If you're an Amritdhari great. If Keshdhari good. Keep on doing what YOU'RE doing. I know a close friend of my father. She, her husband and their father are all practising Sikhs (their dad passed away and these two are late 50's). However, I am ashamed and saddened to say this, they boasted great lengths of being Amritdhaaris, so much so they would literally force and compel others into taking Amrit. Many reading this may be picturing they put a sword/ shotgun to a mona/ Keshdhaari's head and threatened to them to take Amrit... DON'T WORRY! Wasn't that dramatic. 

The woman's a close friend of my father, due to Business reasons they often would see one another. But the meeting's reduced greatly today. Anyways I do not know about my father but my mum? She felt forced into having taken amrit about 20 years ago. She had to endure "Your husband's amritdhaari why aren't you?" Apart from the friend many more other old buddias were also an influence like this on to my mum. 

Now, tough hearted women can deal with such people that force them. Okay once, twice you may tell someone to go get baptised but constantly??? THEN the tough hearted women/ men has to bring out her tough side and shout and yell at them to "Stop pestering me!" or "Am warning you, stop forcing me!" In a loud and clear voice. Unfortunately, my mum was not that tough hearted and carried on listening, hoping one day they'd stop... But no. My mum too ended up taking Amrit. Today my mum talks about leaving Amrit behind but she feels she cannot (scared of after death more than husband). At the same time she might? My mum's in a dilemma. 

My mum had told my father to keep hair but at least don't take Amrit. He took Amrit. More than the woman and her husband, the woman's father in law was the WORST! Any monis that came to him during house prayer sessions he would not even look them in the eye, just sit their with a big frown and hope the monis left. He treated moni kids in the same manner. He qualified himself as "Anyone wishing me to even smile on them must keep hair." The clever folks never or hardly attended house prayers. My father had made every effort to attend ALL functions and took my unwilling to go mum. 

END OF THE DAY AFTER THEIR FATHER DIED...

Slowly all the grandsons (aged young kids and the then teens) cut all their hair. Nearly all grandsons are moni/ trimmed beards. Only one granddaughter is practising and one granddaughter HAS CUT ALL HER GAIR AND MARRIED A WHITE MAN!!! I REPEAT SHE MARRIED A WHITE MAN!!! THIS IS THE FRIEND'S VERY OWN DAUGHTER!!!! SANGAT JIO! Let this be a lesson for showing so much Ahankar. OKAY! If you wish to tell others just tell them once to take Amrit. If you really want to tell then hold programs at the Gurdwara/ become like a Giani ji or a techer where you take out time explaining Sikhi and Amrit DO IT IN A NICE WAY! The effected Sangat will have so much kirpa where they take Amrit thanks to you. You taught them, gave them reasons. 

But the way these 3 did it? They JUST stated to take Amrit to anyone. LOOK WHERE THEIR EGO GOT THEM! Today these 2 don't dare mention to anyone to take Amrit. After all their kid's fiesta they stopped stating the obvious of Amrit, long hairs and "What if you die tomorrow?" emotional blackmails. REQUEST! If you want others to take Amrit and feel the need to tell them hold programs of Katha and Kirtan at the gurdwara. If sangat turns up it means they're already interested in Sangat, Simran and seva. Teach them about the 10 Guru's, translate to them the Guru Granth Sahib, talk about Amrit, talk about society and Brahm Giania da jeevan in a discussion session. 

IF they're taken Amrit/ kept hair fantastic. If not just think "Hey, with Akaal Purkh's kirpa I am merely doing my part and they'll take care of the rest." Don't get saddened seeing the SAME mona walk up 10 years into the sangat and think "Does this person even pay attention to my katha?" I was ever so fortunate to have such a teacher. I was inspired to take Amrit and not compelled. Even today I feel happy and with Kirpa I keep doing what am doing. The reason I walked into the katha program was because it as in English, many other youths were there and the Gurdwara gave the platform where katha was held in English by the teacher, we learned about Seva, Gurbani's hukmnama was translated and discussion of Sikh History was told. THIS IS ONE WAY OF TELLING OTHERS ABOUT AMRIT, BUT SHOULD THEY TAKE IT OR NOT TAKE IT AND STILL DO SANGAT, SIMRAN AND SEVA SHOULD BE LEFT UP TO THEM!!! 

Let's face it, NO ONE can make you happy. Ok so you tell a mona "Keep hair," they have. You then say "Take Amrit," they have. Do you suppose you'll find ANY santokh?? A few months later "Are you doing your Nitnem, no??" Neither you will be santokh and instead you'll feel sad! Then their's the teacher! He see's the same mona walk in ten years and he'll feel pleased that this guy's at least getting Sangat and Simran (Minimum) and how he's not the only guy here, but many others kept hair and many others took Amrit because of the program held. 

SANGAT JIO! Telling others about Amrit is a HUGE responsibility and there's a best way of doing it and an ahankari's way of doing it, which'll get YOU and the people you forced nowhere in life. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

moral of the story - be grateful where you are ,and show love to others no matter where they have reached in their journey, be encouraging/supportive for sangat, naam or just listening kirtan but never be pushy. Remember it is a path of love and understanding not an ego fuelled numbers game 

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2 hours ago, Singh1989 said:

SANGAT JIO! Telling others about Amrit is a HUGE responsibility and there's a best way of doing it and an ahankari's way of doing it, which'll get YOU and the people you forced nowhere in life. 

You've brought up an important issue. I will agree with some aspects of what you said, and disagree with others below. Don't confuse one for the other.

2 hours ago, Singh1989 said:

However, I am ashamed and saddened to say this, they boasted great lengths of being Amritdhaaris,

You haven't given any examples of how they boasted. Could you do so?

As for thinking that what you're doing is great, and encouraging other people to do it, everyone does that. Surfers encourage non-surfers to surf. Hikers encourage non-hikers to hike. Players of Dungeons & Dragons encourage non-players to play. Political activists encourage people to register to vote and donate to candidates. Drinkers encourage non-drinkers to drink. Non-drinkers encourage drinkers to stop drinking. Smokers encourage non-smokers to smoke. Non-smokers encourage smokers to stop. But the only thing that people should not encourage people to do is to take Amrit?

In any case, the amritdhari lifestyle is a wondrous lifestyle. Sikhs believe: 

ਪੀਵਹੁ ਪਾਹੁਲ ਖੰਡੇਧਾਰ ਹੌਇ ਜਨਮੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ |

(Bhai Gurdas II, Vaar 41, Pauri 1)

Drink the pahul of the Khanda (amrit) so your life may become suhela.

Now, what is suhela? Here's some quotes to get you started:

ਸਭੇ ਕਾਜ ਸੁਹੇਲੜੇ ਥੀਏ ...

ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਕਹਿਨ ਕਹਾਵਨ ਤੇਰਾ ਬਿਖਮ ਭਾਵਨ ...

ਤਿਚਰੁ ਵਸਹਿ ਸੁਹੇਲੜੀ ...

ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਹੇਲੀ ...

The dictionary defines suhela as "easy, comforting, soothing". Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha defines it as, among other things, as sukhi or suhkhdai. Sukh meaning "comfort, ease, feeling of relief or freedom from anxiety, happiness or contentment, felicity, tranquility". In other words, total awesomeness.

That's what Sikhs (such as the beloved Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh ji, Bhai Gurdas II) believe Sikhism to be. And if you thought, as Sikhs do, that Sikhism is so awesome, why would you not tell everyone you know about it?

2. OK, now you may say, alright, fine, everyone on this earth encourages other people people to do what they're doing, but the one, solitary group of people prevented from doing so is because is Amritdhari Sikhs because ... Sikhs don't preach? Well, I'm sorry, but that is just made up, I don't know where people got that from other than from their nether regions. If you think that you're not supposed to tell others about Sikhism, Satguru doesn't agree with you:

ਆਪਿ ਜਪਹੁ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵਹੁ ॥

Chant the Naam yourself, and cause others to chant it.

ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੯੦
Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

As any speaker of Punjabi knows, you have verbs where you're doing something, like ਲਿਖਣਾ (to write) and then you have the causative construction like ਲਿਖਾਉਣਾ (to have someone write, to cause someone to write). Similarly, ਜਪਨਾ (recite) and ਜਪਾਉਨਾ (cause to recite). Now "cause to recite" doesn't mean at the edge of a sword, but still it means having other people recite (not keeping it just to yourself, like you started out your post with).

Just in case you didn't get it the first time, Guru Sahib repeats the hukum:

 

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥

Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and causes others to chant it. ||2||

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das 

 

So not only does Guru Sahib want us to tell other people about Amrit, but Guru Sahib begs for the the feet of the Sikh who does so. A person who tells others about the awesomeness of Sikhi and Amrit is not "hankari" like you say, but rather apple of Guru Sahib's eye.

More to come.

 

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4 hours ago, Singh1989 said:

More than the woman and her husband, the woman's father in law was the WORST! Any monis that came to him during house prayer sessions he would not even look them in the eye

You know, it has sometimes been considered a virtue that Sikh men didn't look at women. I'm sure you have heard the story, very often told to praise Sikhism, of an Englishwoman who travelled on a long railyway journey with Master Tara Singh also sitting in front of her. She was so praiseful of Master ji who, she said, did not look at her even once, not a glance, not a side-look, not once. But you say not looking at a woman is bad.

You may also have heard of the story of Lakhsman, who when asked what Sita looked like, said he didn't know because he had never looked at her.

4 hours ago, Singh1989 said:

just sit their with a big frown and hope the monis left.

Do you know what he was thinking? Anyway, news for you: (many) old people are ornery. Just happens with age (for some). Some people mellow out, other people get crusty. I'm sure Theresa May can get nasty at times. Even Saint Jeremy Corbyn, widely considered to be such a "nice guy", is also said to be nasty, like using mafia don tactics and sacking an underling while she was under treatment for breast cancer without giving her notice. Now you can say, no, he's not really nasty, he's misunderstood, he actually has a lot of nice qualities, but all of that also can apply to the nasty grampa you're talking about: You told us a few bad qualities, but you didn't tell us any of his good qualities.

4 hours ago, Singh1989 said:

He treated moni kids in the same manner. He qualified himself as "Anyone wishing me to even smile on them must keep hair."

Did he actually say that?  If you check our rehitnammas, it says not to mingle with sirgums (monas). While not denying the rehitnammas, I would like to say that social exclusion works when you have a thousand Sikhs, and one of them cuts their hair. Once you boycott them, then they come to their senses. But it's quite a different matter when you have a majority of sirgums! Who all can you boycott?

But not being a jackass to monas when they come to sangat is not violative of any Sikh injunctions. So I'd like to encourage everybody to be nice to everybody.

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First, lets admit one thing straightforward : 

Our religion has somethings that make it difficult to follow in modern times , esp for men ! So unless we give sikhi to our kids , we're going to lose them from sikhi once they grow up . Its inevitable. 

But then our religion is very straightforward path to god , without involving any superstitions. 

Our kids need to be taught at modern age why they have to wear turbans or kes . Otherwise our kids will grow on to understand turban as "burden" (yes I have heard this word from sikh teenage boys). 

 

Khande di paahul or amrit ?

In gurbaani, amrit means name of god which doesn't discriminate on bhek (outer appearance). 

 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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17 hours ago, BhForce said:

You know, it has sometimes been considered a virtue that Sikh men didn't look at women. I'm sure you have heard the story, very often told to praise Sikhism, of an Englishwoman who travelled on a long railyway journey with Master Tara Singh also sitting in front of her. She was so praiseful of Master ji who, she said, did not look at her even once, not a glance, not a side-look, not once. But you say not looking at a woman is bad.

You may also have heard of the story of Lakhsman, who when asked what Sita looked like, said he didn't know because he had never looked at her.

Do you know what he was thinking? Anyway, news for you: (many) old people are ornery. Just happens with age (for some). Some people mellow out, other people get crusty. I'm sure Theresa May can get nasty at times. Even Saint Jeremy Corbyn, widely considered to be such a "nice guy", is also said to be nasty, like using mafia don tactics and sacking an underling while she was under treatment for breast cancer without giving her notice. Now you can say, no, he's not really nasty, he's misunderstood, he actually has a lot of nice qualities, but all of that also can apply to the nasty grampa you're talking about: You told us a few bad qualities, but you didn't tell us any of his good qualities.

Did he actually say that?  If you check our rehitnammas, it says not to mingle with sirgums (monas). While not denying the rehitnammas, I would like to say that social exclusion works when you have a thousand Sikhs, and one of them cuts their hair. Once you boycott them, then they come to their senses. But it's quite a different matter when you have a majority of sirgums! Who all can you boycott?

But not being a jackass to monas when they come to sangat is not violative of any Sikh injunctions. So I'd like to encourage everybody to be nice to everybody.

He spoke to turban wearing women, looked them in the eye n patted them on shoulder a few times. Even held patki wearing kids hands (like grandfather friendly manner). I am a witness to this. That family were friends not relatives. On my turn he shunned his head away, no reply back to my "Sat Sri Akaal" neither.

His son ushered me out. Was in a room where only a few selected cn meet. I sort of walked in seeing wha the fuss's about.

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Guest Jacfsing2

This seems like a completely useless topic, because one of your relatives didn't talk to you one time. I don't know if you know this, but if you've met high-quality Gursikhs, they aren't really much to chat with anyone, doesn't matter if your Amritdhari, a relative, friends, spouse or even kids. Also forget the Sikh aspect to this, maybe some people are introverts. I'm with @BhForce on this one.

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Not a useless topic it part of a Sikh's experience. Also no one should compel others - make others aware etc... I kno it not a topic of nindia (as no names/ photos mentioned) so still not useless.

Sikhs can learn "why not to compel others." Kno wha am sayin'?

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Guest Jacfsing2
11 minutes ago, Singh1989 said:

Not a useless topic it part of a Sikh's experience. Also no one should compel others - make others aware etc... I kno it not a topic of nindia (as no names/ photos mentioned) so still not useless.

Sikhs can learn "why not to compel others." Kno wha am sayin'?

Your only tag is "force", what you mention is that one person recommended somebody take Amrit. Either you live in a bubble or don't understand that humans will try helping each other or destroy each other on their paths. 

@BhForcesays it better than I can.

On 6/24/2017 at 10:32 PM, BhForce said:

As for thinking that what you're doing is great, and encouraging other people to do it, everyone does that. Surfers encourage non-surfers to surf. Hikers encourage non-hikers to hike. Players of Dungeons & Dragons encourage non-players to play. Political activists encourage people to register to vote and donate to candidates. Drinkers encourage non-drinkers to drink. Non-drinkers encourage drinkers to stop drinking. Smokers encourage non-smokers to smoke. Non-smokers encourage smokers to stop. But the only thing that people should not encourage people to do is to take Amrit?

 

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17 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Your only tag is "force", what you mention is that one person recommended somebody take Amrit. Either you live in a bubble or don't understand that humans will try helping each other or destroy each other on their paths. 

@BhForcesays it better than I can.

 

@BHForce only encourage those who wholeheartedly wish to take Amrit also! AND that person must themselves say "I wish to take Amrit..." If not whas the point of saying to them EVERY SINGLE DAY go take Amrit?

Let's say you're not a hiker and someone for the next 5 years says to you "you should go hiking, you should go hiking" and for the 5 years you just explain "I don't want to. I don't want" how'd you feel?

AND hiking is/ can be a one off thing but taking Amrit!!?? It a LIFE TIME thing.

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(on this one he abused Basics of Sikhi for highlighting the killing of Sikhs during a live BBC TV programme)  Its like the <banned word filter activated>..... the <banned word filter activated> who went live on TV and started shouting during a programme on the BBC. Do you think that did anything for opinion of sikhs in the wider world. Any you ? You c*ck consider that an inferiority complex Its not, its damging the position of the Kaum in the wider world, for which behvooks like you are 100% responsible.   (he said the following after I challenged him for calling our sister JKVLondon the most disgusting of abuse)  And yes I also call out JKV when she comes out with BS, and shall continue to do so. And dont apologise for it whatsoever.   marching up in the middle of it dropping his kachera and releasing the diahorrea from his Jagsaw all over the floor and then thinking he added to the debate         More bukwaas. Its never ending. Filter 100 of my posts eh? bollocks. Aside from which how the hell would you know, given that you are neither a mod, admin or vaguely respected member of this board with any influence whatsoever?     so do us all a favour and kkep the BS in your rectum Well which is it you <banned word filter activated&gt Sort of like the internet equivalent of having a debate in person, and some tw*t just And you have to type one handed, whilst using the other hand to wave your kirpan around your head to fight off the mughals invaders hallucinations Its winkers like you that need to be eradicated from the sikh kaum Jagsaw you c0ck any proof of the above horse sh1t statement? I mean proof, not your bukwaas opinions encountering here is the resident behvkoof of this forum, Jagsaw Singh. Makes tutee up to attempt to make his point seem more learned. And you have asked for sources?? lol dream on Careful don't criticise Jagsaw's beloved Pakistan or Muslim groomers who rape children jagsaw khota is the epitome of nonsense and verbal bukwas DELETED* I have taken to use the word "jagsaw" as a proxy for ‘ANUS’. (in this one he decided to go for the 3 forum members that are most vocal for Sikh Independence from India in one sentence, alluding to the fact that Sikhs that desire self-determination are the enemies Sikhi) there are many more behvkoofs on this forum who are armchair google hypocritical extremists happy to slander without evidence (sound familiar jkv?) and some others who are just goddamn dumb and idiotic (akalifauj-for example, suggest that jagsaw and these members form their own caste of the behvkoofs and cease from damaging Sikhi any further. Jagsaw my old friend, IMODIUM time again ! I have plenty to say Jagsaw, I only abuse where the poster justifies that type of response. I congratulate you that the 100% stupidity of your posts warrants a lifetime behvkoofi, Lets get something straight behvkoofa. . What I AM, is anti behvkoof, anti janwar, anti extremist, anti baseless BS, anti moronic google warrior But thats you all over, baseless bollocks total made up b0llox recognised your nonsense as structurally identical to horse lidh.....  
    • It has to be sarbloh all food that we eat should be made in sarbloh but that is a different topic but degh should always be made in sarbloh and then when served should also be in sarbloh utensils 
    • Keski is not  a kakaar and will never be akj jathebandi say this but guru gobind singh Jee states in there hukamnama which was sent to kabal that kes is a kakaar and as a Taksali Singh myself I have read a lot about this and keski is not a kakaar this is a misconception by akj jathebandi 
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