HarfunMaula

ISIS in East Punjab

28 posts in this topic

I completely agree. But, Sikhs of Punjab have long forgotten the threat of Islamic terrorism, although Pathankot sort of woke them up. Hit close to home. 

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what exactly do you mean by acting proactively?

last time i checked they sat and protested with us during the 'beadbi of sggs' episode last year.

there is no bigger threat than RSS

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When a Muslim gets arrested we are to believe everything the Indian/Punjab police says by calling him a terrorist.  Yet the same is not true for a Sikh who the police label as a terrorist as well.

Are certain Muslims highly likely to commit terrorism? Yes. As Sikhs do we blindly follow the Punjab police as sheep's? No.  Didn't Muslims provide weapons to the Shaheeds of 1984 and in and around this time to fight the Indian government who were systematically killing Sikhs?  If they didn't provide those weapons, how many more Sikh sisters would have been raped? As all Hindus are not bad neither are all Muslims.  

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3 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Didn't Muslims provide weapons to the Shaheeds of 1984 

No, those weapons used in the battle of amritsar (bluestar) were old crappy ww2 village rifles. Pakistan funded sikhs with weapons AFTER bluestar (1985 onwards).

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15 minutes ago, StarStriker said:

No, those weapons used in the battle of amritsar (bluestar) were old crappy ww2 village rifles. Pakistan funded sikhs with weapons AFTER bluestar (1985 onwards).

So they used us in an attempt to destabilise Punjab, thus strengthening the Pakistani position versus India? And that's viewed as a positive by us? We paid with our blood to further their aims, even though it was dressed up as support for our fledgling revolution. They played us, and we're grateful for their 5hitty AK's. 

Edited by MisterrSingh
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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

So they used us in an attempt to destabilise Punjab, thus strengthening the Pakistani position versus India? And that's viewed as a positive by us? We paid with our blood to further their aims, even though it was dressed up as support for our fledgling revolution. They played us, and we're grateful for their 5hitty AK's. 

Y your gettin sarcastic with me, i have no clue, i just simply answered/corrected the brothers comments above.

Secondly, after bluestar happened, we went to war with the indian state in a civil war (1985-93ish), which was the only option, as the ask for khalistan became our only option. Either that, or we just sit there n carry on getting shittar from panjab police/bsf/raw etc. Pakistan hating and wanting to destabilise india works in their favour and ours. Who else did u want to fund sikhs with weapons then, which had to be snuck in via various methods across states/borders?

U said "We paid with our blood to further their aims"....their aims? Khalistan and the push for it was NOT "their aims", it became a necessity after bluestar. U kno u need to research this topic properly, rather than post rubbish n embarrass yourself.

Edited by StarStriker
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12 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I'll be brief. This will be painful for people like you but I'm beyond caring: ISI enthusiastically watered the seeds of separatism that Sikhs had planted. The Anandpur Resolution and other associated Sikh concerns were certainly borne from our side, but without any concrete support from the Pakistanis (which never originated from some magnanimous desire to emancipate Sikh concerns, but instead were a veiled attempt to further their own neverending war against the Indians), these aims would've remained as vague, undeliverable philosophies.

Sikhs in the separatist movement naively took Pakistani support as an agreement between equals. It was not. We were pawns in a game of chess between the Indians and the Pakistanis. Get that through your head. We were never in control. We never dictated terms. 

Even the potential name of our proposed Sikh homeland was etymologically derived from an Islamic term ffs! And if you struggle to believe these same Pakis would've hesitated to eventually invade and reclaim a potential Sikh homeland had we miraculously wrangled one away from the Indians, you're truly living in cloud cuckoo land.

Whoever it was on our side that was in contact with the Pakistani intelligence agencies on a regular basis was given instructions right up until the day of the attack on Harmandir Sahib. Promises were made. "Go on, begin your fight against the Indians. We'll cross the border and provide support when it looks like you'll need it. Trust us."

That support never came. We were hung out to dry by our duplicitous Islamic handlers. The b4stard Indians knew those conversations that had been taking place. I wouldn't be surprised if there were ISI-provided satellite phones amongst the debris and bodies of the Singh fighters in the complex that day.

What purpose did those knackered Pakistani weapons serve - those same weapons you and your ilk get dewey eyed over - if they ultimately proved to be absolutely worthless? Did you think the Pakistanis sympathised with us because they wanted the Sikh people to flourish and escape the poisonous presence of Hindustan? Get your head out of the sand, and view the situation from a regional and international geo-political perspective. You're swallowing propaganda from a bunch of crusty old Punjabi uncles who are rewriting history to cover their own foolishness, hubris, and fatal naivety. That absolute basic lack of understanding cost the lives of hundreds and thousands of defenceless civilian Sikhs who never asked to be part of a war they never even knew was coming. You invoke the names of our raped sisters and our butchered children as if it gives you some higher moral ground to espouse this bull5hit.

If this is the kind of wilful denial that still permeates our mentality, we truly deserve to be wiped out in body and soul.

This site is a joke at times. You people are so utterly lost you can't even see what's going on. You'd rather exist in some fantasy land of your own making, instead of confronting nasty and undesirable truths that will ultimately free you from the ignorance and deception that has become second nature as the breaths you take to stay alive. I'd expect at least one of you to at least vaguely hint as to the reality of what's facing us as Sikhs in the next century or so, but in all my years on this forum I can only conclude not one person on here has put in the hard work to be afforded a glimpse of what's to come. How is that even possible when there's so many obvious undercover brahmgyanis on this site? 

You're welcome to hurtle towards your self destruction with open arms. Some of us aren't content with becoming psychologically and mentally enslaved by anyone, be they whites, Hindus, Muslims, or other Sikhs.

Keep waiting for your Messiah. He won't be descending from the heavens to lead you to the promised land. Your hell will be this earth, amongst the ashes of your friends and your loved ones.

I'm done with this echo chamber.

Hysterical women don't make this much fuss.  This ignorant person took one fact, Sikhs received weapons from Pakistan sources, to a full blown conspiracy theory.  Adding his feminist touch to his conspiracy theory, says....don't talk to me at the end.  He has no evidence and has not read Sikh history to see how many times the Sikh Gurus were betrayed by Muslims after Guru sahib enlisted them in the Khalsa Army.  But what evidence does this guy have there was a deal between Pakistan source and Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa, who is the chief and commander of the dharm Yudh Morcha.  What was the deal, who are your sources?  After the attack Sant ji entrusted Jathedars like Baba Gurbachan Singh ji Manochahal to carry on the Khalistan movement.  This poster conspiracy theory goes the length to label the the very name khalistan as been created by Muslims.  This guy is a true nut job.  Next he will say Khalsa is a term forced on Sikhs by the Muslims.  Sikhs set up training camps in pakistan.  Just watch this hysterical feminist twist this fact to support his monthly ups and downs.  When pathans joined Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji army.  They probably thought they can break the Sikhs from within.  So was Guru sahib naive to allow pathans in his army, who later joined the enemy?  If this boy understood political and economics, he would not make hysterical comments.  I could just hear him screaming like a woman on her monthly down as he wrote his post.  Last point, Sikh women would have been raped at a mass scale if Sikhs did not receive the weapons.  Look at the genocide in Delhi and surrounding villages and towns after killing of indra Gandhi.  Those Sikhs were unarmed and they were massacred.  Yet in Punjab many police officers and black cats and thugs were killed because they attempted to take the izzat of Sikh families.  However, you can't save all when such a big force is against you.  The same is true when our Gurus fought battles.  Civilians were killed raped and burned and tortured.  But this never stopped Guru sahib from fighting battles.  The Sikhs who think this is wrong are weak hearted.  These are the Sikhs who turned on the Shaheeds of 1984.  To save their own neck they rather die as cowards.

Satguru bless the weak to do more paath thereby increasing their mental strength and fight for Gurmat. 

 

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15 hours ago, StarStriker said:

No, those weapons used in the battle of amritsar (bluestar) were old crappy ww2 village rifles. Pakistan funded sikhs with weapons AFTER bluestar (1985 onwards).

I got nothing to prove to you others.  I know what I know.  

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19 hours ago, PokeYourPinealGland said:

what exactly do you mean by acting proactively?

last time i checked they sat and protested with us during the 'beadbi of sggs' episode last year.

there is no bigger threat than RSS

They also made thousands of Sikhs refugees across the tribal regions of Pak/Afg recently. None the less, the ones that are good are irrelevant. The few that are terrorists overshadow them and are too big of a threat for us to sit here saying "b-b-but not a-all are bad :(." We can't dismiss Islamic terrorism because not all Muslims are bad, it's not a difficult concept. 

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There is nothing to indicate that EVERY single decision was made by ISI. Did they have some influence, sure? I agree with a good bit of what MisterSingh says, but a lot of it comes off as typical Indian white washing. They want everyone to believe Khalistan was nothing, just some misguided fools being used by Pakistan. That's it. Final. Which I do not agree with it. Lots of mistakes were bad, but that Shaheeds like Sant Ji, Baba Manochahal, Budhinghwala were just dumbf***s getting used? No. 

 

And the 84 Pakistan invasion theory, I have heard this from ONE Sikh who was there present. Mostly comes from Indian puppets though. Although I am not dismissing it entirely as an Indian spread theory. 

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Once Muslims population increases in our Punjab there's gonna be guaranteed more problems like drugs gangs grooming of native Punjabi girls ect this happens anywhere there are is a large population of Muslims in non Muslim area 

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31 minutes ago, ghettosikh said:

Once Muslims population increases in our Punjab there's gonna be guaranteed more problems like drugs gangs grooming of native Punjabi girls ect this happens anywhere there are is a large population of Muslims in non Muslim area 

It will increase no doubt there.  Today there is a problem with grooming gangs in Punjab.  Punjabi girls are being groomed by punjabi men.  

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On 6/13/2017 at 9:49 PM, MisterrSingh said:

So they used us in an attempt to destabilise Punjab, thus strengthening the Pakistani position versus India? And that's viewed as a positive by us? We paid with our blood to further their aims, even though it was dressed up as support for our fledgling revolution. They played us, and we're grateful for their 5hitty AK's. 

Enemy's enemy is my friend. What is harsh though is that if Khalistan is made tomorrow than both Hindus and Muslims would attempt to destabilize it. 

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On 6/13/2017 at 3:17 AM, HarfunMaula said:

The rise of radical Islam in Punjab is never touched upon within the Qaum but it is a pressing issue. With the restoration of hundreds of mosques, conversion of Sikhs to Islam in our Sikh home land, increase in religious riots involving Muslims and non-Muslims and the Muslim immigrants facilitating Jihadi activity and there have been talks about introducing Sharia Panchayats within Punjab. The Muslim population of East Punjab was 0.8 % in 1971 and was at 1.92% in 2011. We need to act proactively before it is too late.

The Gujar immigrants from Kashmir have been known to harbor terrorists and store weapons for a while now. A consignment of weapons was found more than 10 years back near the Adampur town of Doaba. The Gujar deras of Gurdaspur were used as a refuge by the terrorists before they launched the 2015 Pathankot attacks.

Now in April 2017 a Muslim immigrant from Uttar Pradesh who was living in Jalandhar for several years working as a tailor was arrested for his links to ISIS. 

These are the developments of dangerous trends for the future of Punjab. 

Ex-DGP Izhar Alam runs his own outfit which is a facsimile of the UK grooming gangs, 

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19 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

It will increase no doubt there.  Today there is a problem with grooming gangs in Punjab.  Punjabi girls are being groomed by punjabi men.  

I'd be interested read about this can you please point me in the direction of getting more information? 

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51 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

Ex-DGP Izhar Alam runs his own outfit which is a facsimile of the UK grooming gangs, 

Would you care to elaborate?

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2 hours ago, 13Mirch said:

Enemy's enemy is my friend. What is harsh though is that if Khalistan is made tomorrow than both Hindus and Muslims would attempt to destabilize it. 

Yeah possibly but then a Sikh theocratic state may not be what they want so I reckon that's a understandable.? Currently even the majority of Sikhs in panjab don't want a independent theocratic state? 

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46 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Yeah possibly but then a Sikh theocratic state may not be what they want so I reckon that's a understandable.? Currently even the majority of Sikhs in panjab don't want a independent theocratic state? 

I doubt a theocratic state would go over well in Punjab. But a seperate state for Sikhs to operate freely, that could. But in terms of people against or for, no one knows exact figures. I think the vast majority isn't against or for it, they're just content where they are. 

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15 minutes ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon said:

I doubt a theocratic state would go over well in Punjab. But a seperate state for Sikhs to operate freely, that could. But in terms of people against or for, no one knows exact figures. I think the vast majority isn't against or for it, they're just content where they are. 

I would agree, but much of the conversation here is about Khalistan which I take as being a theocracy by definition rather than a pluralistic democracy? I suppose in my own experience I don't see much support on the ground in panjab for Khalistan? Or for it to become a independent state. 

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4 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Yeah possibly but then a Sikh theocratic state may not be what they want so I reckon that's a understandable.? Currently even the majority of Sikhs in panjab don't want a independent theocratic state? 

Why don't you enlighten us to the theocratic elements in the Sikh state?

Edited by 13Mirch
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5 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I would agree, but much of the conversation here is about Khalistan which I take as being a theocracy by definition rather than a pluralistic democracy? I suppose in my own experience I don't see much support on the ground in panjab for Khalistan? Or for it to become a independent state. 

I agree, I think the support really sparks up when something happens related to politics etc. Other than that they're just too busy caught up in life too really commit too such a complex goal that has zero structure. Can't blame them. Or expect them too rise up because a bunch of people thousands of miles away have fantasies about a Sikh state that they won't even go live in. 

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8 hours ago, BhForce said:

Would you care to elaborate?

The Waqf board, look it up. Alam was KPS Gill's blue-eyed baby; an individual, who I spoke to and who was one of his victims, described him as being a lunatic seeing himself avenging the "persecution of innocent Muslims by the Sikhs and their Gurus." The Badal mafia brought his wife to power and lent him some prominence.

Edited by 13Mirch
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6 hours ago, 13Mirch said:

The Waqf board, look it up. Alam was KPS Gill's blue-eyed baby; an individual, who I spoke to and who was one of his victims, described him as being a lunatic seeing himself avenging the "persecution of innocent Muslims by the Sikhs and their Gurus." The Badal mafia brought his wife to power and lent him some prominence.

1. A waqf is basically a Muslim charity. I had a glancing understanding that the Punjab Waqf Board is constituted by the Punjab Government to administer waqf properties in Punjab. I had a look at its website http://www.pbwakf.org/ , but I didn't bother to read the PDFs of laws related to the Waqf Board.

One of the things claimed on the site is that waqfs in India originate from Muslim rulers from up to 800 years ago reserving land for Islamic purposes:

"The approximate number of registered Waqf properties in India is 3,00,000 and account for 4 lakh acres of land. According to the Deputy Chairman of the Rajya Sabha, Sh. Rahman Khan, this makes the Boards the third-largest landholder after the Railways and Defence.
 
            A surrender of properties to God, a Waqf deed is irrevocable and perpetual."

This seems questionable to me, since the "Muslim rulers" were invaders who usurped the existing residents' lands. To now reclaim them for Muslims in perpetuity hardly seems equitable.

2. Regardless of all that, I was unable to find anything specifically regarding grooming and Alam. I have no doubt that he's the sort of guy would love to see Muslims grooming non-Muslims, but do you have any other info? Thanks.

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