Shastar vidya books

[jkvlondon]

3 hours ago, Ashtabhuja said:

You mean The Lost Warfare of India. I've got that and the SV book. The warfare book is actually largely based on Chanakya's treatise, Arthashastra (all the sections on warfare, spying and assassination). It's like Ninja stuff, except ancient Indians were doing this sort of thing long before the Ninjas. Have you read it? I wish people (Indian and non-Indian) would write more books like this on ancient Indian martial culture and arts. It helps to have those silhouette images. Not really a fan of text-only books.

Yeah, he wrote it with Cummins. He's a Youtuber and author famous for separating fact from fiction when it comes to the Ninja and Samurai. A lot of what we know about Ninjas comes from Masaaki Hatsumi, but not everything Hatsumi says is true. But Cummins uses textual evidence (when you have that, you cant make anything up).

Also, Sagoo was actually the second person to interview Nidar Singh years ago for MAI (Krishna Godhania was the first) but his SV book doesn't seem to be linked with Nidar's SV (like no mention of Chandi Yudhan, etc.). There's a YouTube trailer of it. Again, the illustrations of Kshatriyas that accompany the text helps.

been looking at samurai core texts ...it's interesting getting other views on board..,

[Sukhvirk1976]

It's pretty well established that what we call the martial arts of the East today, kung fu, toa chi originated in the structured format from India and predate 'sikhi' by thousands of years.. The term martial arts is broad and any fighting tradition is in itself a martial art.. However the systems and dharmic focus which trancend fighting and them becoming a yoga or gian were influenced by the arrival of Indian Buddhist monks in India. 

Jatka as a concept is a spiritual concept.. If we are to be benevolent and beyond hate then we must as warriors prepare ourselves for the ultimate test.. To take a life even on the battle field let us take it quickly without even our enemy suffering needlessly... So we train hard learning that if we must take life we take it without hate or gratuitous violence.. We discipline ourselves 

[Ashtabhuja]

Sure, Sukhvirk1976. There will always be good and bad people in the world. The Sikh gurus made it our duty to kill those bad people but only when all other means of punishing them have failed (regardless of what the law of the land says. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our King and Waheguru is our Emperor. Elizabeth II, May, Trump, etc. are not our leaders. Khalsa cannot be led by non-Khalsa). And when we kill, we must do it with a jhatka - one strike (sword to neck, shot to the head or heart) and without hate. Guru Hargobind Ji is said to have killed opponents in battle with a neutral expression on his face.

So that's all good, but I started this topic to get people discussing books on Indian martial arts, because they're so rare. Do you know of any such books? Do you have an opinion as to why there are not that many? And what we can do to change that? 

[Ashtabhuja]

jkvlondon, the Samurai texts you've been reading, are they Cummins' books?

He's actually currently in Japan doing more research. He's got already got a chest containing several unpublished Ninja manuscripts which he will publish. All he did was go to Japan and buy them from antique book stores. Such scrolls are available because people, including the Japanese people themselves, aren't hunting for them. Some day, I hope to do the same for Indian martial manuals. 

[Sukhvirk1976]

3 minutes ago, Ashtabhuja said:

Sure, Sukhvirk1976. There will always be good and bad people in the world. The Sikh gurus made it our duty to kill those bad people but only when all other means of punishing them have failed (regardless of what the law of the land says. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our King and Waheguru is our Emperor. Elizabeth II, May, Trump, etc. are not our leaders. Khalsa cannot be led by non-Khalsa). And when we kill, we must do it with a jhatka - one strike (sword to neck, shot to the head or heart) and without hate. Guru Hargobind Ji is said to have killed opponents in battle with a neutral expression on his face.

So that's all good, but I started this topic to get people discussing books on Indian martial arts, because they're so rare. Do you know of any such books? Do you have an opinion as to why there are not that many? And what we can do to change that? 

I apologise for I digressed in my post and responded to a side issue with my thoughts.. 

I believe any academic research should be welcome and we need more of it.. For me One of the greatest tragedies to befall the Sikh quam was the loss of the library of Guru gobind Singh Ji in the sirsa after the siege of anandpur.. I believe the academic contribution made by Niddar Singh has great value if we approach it agnostically ie. We as individual researchers judge it upon the merits and veracity of the evidence to substantiate any given proposition..

What I can say is that all research should be encouraged without it being politicised.. I think to create a body of work the Sikh community should set up a bursary fund to finance academics to engage in research where the research is totally independent of any political objectives of the financiers.. Within Sikh community many people are really quick to dismiss and denigrate a piece of work not for any rational reason but rather that the intellectual questions that many works uncover challenge our dogmatic  assumptions .. More research from a plurality of opinions is what we need so that we can eliminate with confidence all nonsense 

[Sukhvirk1976]

In addition, one problem with research within Indian tradition is that there are very few original documents to use as source material pre-mughal era. Indian philosophical traditions are largely orally transmitted. Compounded by the fact that it is in poetic meter. 

[Ashtabhuja]

1 minute ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

In addition, one problem with research within Indian tradition is that there are very few original documents to use as source material pre-mughal era. Indian philosophical traditions are largely orally transmitted. Compounded by the fact that it is in poetic meter. 

Both of your responses are much appreciated!

I've read the new illustrated Shastar vidya book by Harjit Singh Sagoo and it's backed by textual evidence from numerous Hindu epics, scriptures and treatises, such as the Mahabharat, Ramayan, Nitiprakashik, Shukraniti, Kamadakiya Nitisar, Agni Puran, etc. I got it from Amazon. There's also a trailer about the book on YouTube. This is pre-Mughal martial arts.

There are plenty of texts are out there, but it seems most people are not going through them the way Sagoo did. He's put the book title, chapter and section next to the excerpts and has even drawn illustrations to show the fighting techniques. I've also read in another book that there are unpublished dhanurvedas in Indian libraries, just sitting there. I intend to do something about that one day when I can gather some funds.

[Sukhvirk1976]

1 minute ago, Ashtabhuja said:

Both of your responses are much appreciated!

I've read the new illustrated Shastar vidya book by Harjit Singh Sagoo and it's backed by textual evidence from numerous Hindu epics, scriptures and treatises, such as the Mahabharat, Ramayan, Nitiprakashik, Shukraniti, Kamadakiya Nitisar, Agni Puran, etc. I got it from Amazon. There's also a trailer about the book on YouTube. This is pre-Mughal martial arts.

There are plenty of texts are out there, but it seems most people are not going through them the way Sagoo did. He's put the book title, chapter and section next to the excerpts and has even drawn illustrations to show the fighting techniques. I've also read in another book that there are unpublished dhanurvedas in Indian libraries, just sitting there. I intend to do something about that one day when I can gather some funds.

Good luck to you my friend.. All knowledge and exploration is of value even if people disagree with the proposition? 

I'd be happy to make some suggestions and help with any fundraising if you so wished.. 

[Ashtabhuja]

2 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Good luck to you my friend.. All knowledge and exploration is of value even if people disagree with the proposition? 

I'd be happy to make some suggestions and help with any fundraising if you so wished.. 

Thank you for your good wishes, my friend.

Please feel free to make any suggestions.

[Sukhvirk1976]

13 minutes ago, Ashtabhuja said:

Thank you for your good wishes, my friend.

Please feel free to make any suggestions.

I would suggest crowd sourcing as a possibility?