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36 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Sadly the group that knows English the best in our Panth are the missionary Jatha, that is how they can spread more easily in the diaspora then even Guru-made Jathas.

If you have an idea, it's usually best if you do it yourself, then to depend on other people, whether that be doing shoe,(Jor-De-A), Seva all by yourself or picking-up trash at a Gurdwara,(the reason I picked these 2 Sevas is because these are the Sevas people are least likely to do, and shy away from), to making English translations.

why can it not be a collaborative effort out here as then we will be able to pick more brains , the last things I want to see is no change, or changes done by one group then politics   kick in and it gets discarded .

Sant singh just took the earlier version by Manmohan SIngh and jigged a little to get his agenda in and then presented it as his work ...I'm sure we can do an electronic head to head to highlight the alterations and consult people such as Giani Sher Singh ji, Giani Kulwant Singh ji for the subtle knowledge and then refine the translations

People living in english speaking nations especially those born and bred here will have a better grip on the correct English tone to use to appeal to a modern sophisticated international audience, perhaps also hypertexting it to other language modules as they are developed and crosschecked

Edited by jkvlondon

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3 minutes ago, singhbj singh said:

If you ask me all jathas should have their version online so that readers can compare just like how it is in Srigranth.org

Sgpc should fund & host that platform.

Viewers can choose whether they wanna read missionary, taksali, nihang, akj etc version from options.

Hathi Seva is good but some have to abide by

"Akli sahib seviye" 

too !

sorry no.

Increasingly you are sounding like someone who doesn't care about panthic unity. 

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Thanks for highlighting this.

9 hours ago, 13Mirch said:

Please note that Khalsa's erroneous transliteration was also used by Basics of Sikhi whilst they were debating whether Guru Nanak Dev Ji asks Muslims to be Muslims as per their own coda or as per Gurmat

Wow, that really happened? What tack did BoS take? And do you have a link to it?

One thing that concerns me is whether our preachers in the future will just be reading English translations with stuff mixed in from the mind of the translator (not there in the text), and they'll be taking theological positions based on those English translations! 

I understand that the BoS can't quote Gurmukhi to non-Punjabis, but there's no reason that they have to quote Sant Singh Khalsa's translations. They can understand the Punjabi commentaries (teekas), and then prepare their own English versions before talking with the Muslims.

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48 minutes ago, singhbj singh said:

If you ask me all jathas should have their version online so that readers can compare just like how it is in Srigranth.org

Sgpc should fund & host that platform.

Viewers can choose whether they wanna read missionary, taksali, nihang, akj etc version from options.

Hathi Seva is good but some have to abide by

"Akli sahib seviye" 

too !

SriGranth is good because it's not Jatha-based. 90% of all Sikhs in the diaspora, Amritdhari or not, will be turned-off by Jathas. Missionaries are smart about this point as by presenting them to be just everyday Sikhs doing Seva. Also the among the10% of the Jatha-listeners, at least 50% are irrational people, are the ones who are all-out one Jatha. Nobody learns anything. Only someone who understands that the average Sikh in the west only sees themselves as Sikhs.

It's best to think practically, and understand, that most Sikhs want a clear answer, not hundereds of vague answers.

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22 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

SriGranth is good because it's not Jatha-based. 90% of all Sikhs in the diaspora, Amritdhari or not, will be turned-off by Jathas. Missionaries are smart about this point as by presenting them to be just everyday Sikhs doing Seva. Also the among the10% of the Jatha-listeners, at least 50% are irrational people, are the ones who are all-out one Jatha. Nobody learns anything. Only someone who understands that the average Sikh in the west only sees themselves as Sikhs.

It's best to think practically, and understand, that most Sikhs want a clear answer, not hundereds of vague answers.

funny thing is the disingenious Sant SIngh has entitled  his work as Khalsa concensus translation.

I  don't remember consultations happening do you? anybody talk to Taksal? anybody  talk to Nirmaley? anybody talk to Nihang jathey? 
 

Such liars

here is a list of all translations and brief history/description

https://www.sikhs.org/english/english.htm

Edited by jkvlondon

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3 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

SriGranth is good because it's not Jatha-based. 90% of all Sikhs in the diaspora, Amritdhari or not, will be turned-off by Jathas. Missionaries are smart about this point as by presenting them to be just everyday Sikhs doing Seva. Also the among the10% of the Jatha-listeners, at least 50% are irrational people, are the ones who are all-out one Jatha. Nobody learns anything. Only someone who understands that the average Sikh in the west only sees themselves as Sikhs.

It's best to think practically, and understand, that most Sikhs want a clear answer, not hundereds of vague answers.

Comparative studies or translations on a single platform is a boon.

It is easy to read multiple versions of Gurbani translations at Srigranth.

So let's have various Jatha versions too.

 

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15 minutes ago, singhbj singh said:

So let's have various Jatha versions too.

We are talking about our Guru here, not some fan-clubs coming together and making-up their own whatever they do. You may be part of fan club, and you may think fan clubs are great, but Guru Sahib is not in that world of disunity.

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35 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Nonsense. You're trolling.

All jathas have their punjabi versions so they just have to find someone to translate in simple English.

They can upload both English & Punjabi versions on their sites.

Later through consensus or diktat, bring their work on a common platform for Sangat's benefit.

Edited by singhbj singh

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14 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

SriGranth is good because it's not Jatha-based. 90% of all Sikhs in the diaspora, Amritdhari or not, will be turned-off by Jathas. Missionaries are smart about this point as by presenting them to be just everyday Sikhs doing Seva. Also the among the10% of the Jatha-listeners, at least 50% are irrational people, are the ones who are all-out one Jatha. Nobody learns anything. Only someone who understands that the average Sikh in the west only sees themselves as Sikhs.

It's best to think practically, and understand, that most Sikhs want a clear answer, not hundereds of vague answers.

Sri Granth also has some of the same errors; they rely on both Sant Singh and Manmohan Singh's works. 

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15 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

why can it not be a collaborative effort out here as then we will be able to pick more brains , the last things I want to see is no change, or changes done by one group then politics   kick in and it gets discarded .

Sant singh just took the earlier version by Manmohan SIngh and jigged a little to get his agenda in and then presented it as his work ...I'm sure we can do an electronic head to head to highlight the alterations and consult people such as Giani Sher Singh ji, Giani Kulwant Singh ji for the subtle knowledge and then refine the translations

People living in english speaking nations especially those born and bred here will have a better grip on the correct English tone to use to appeal to a modern sophisticated international audience, perhaps also hypertexting it to other language modules as they are developed and crosschecked

No wonder Sri Granth has so many errors. Manmohan Singh and Sant Singh-Double Trouble!

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16 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

why can it not be a collaborative effort out here as then we will be able to pick more brains , the last things I want to see is no change, or changes done by one group then politics   kick in and it gets discarded .

Sant singh just took the earlier version by Manmohan SIngh and jigged a little to get his agenda in and then presented it as his work ...I'm sure we can do an electronic head to head to highlight the alterations and consult people such as Giani Sher Singh ji, Giani Kulwant Singh ji for the subtle knowledge and then refine the translations

People living in english speaking nations especially those born and bred here will have a better grip on the correct English tone to use to appeal to a modern sophisticated international audience, perhaps also hypertexting it to other language modules as they are developed and crosschecked

Point also is that how some words, never found in Gurmukhi, have been added in as I highlighted in my original post. 

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maybe someone can take sant Singh khalsa and Manmohan Singh translations and fix where it needs to be fixed

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6 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

maybe someone can take sant Singh khalsa and Manmohan Singh translations and fix where it needs to be fixed

Those tragic attempts are cataloged below:

http://sikhs.org/english/compare.htm

What is humorous is that many Muslim proselytizers believe these to be the "best" transliterations because it forwards their agenda. Treat the Koran the same way (different transliterations, different meanings) and well..... need I say more? 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

Those tragic attempts are cataloged below:

http://sikhs.org/english/compare.htm

What is humorous is that many Muslim proselytizers believe these to be the "best" transliterations because it forwards their agenda. Treat the Koran the same way (different transliterations, different meanings) and well..... need I say more? 

 

 

The Muslims think they are winning.  The blind who stand up for them also think they are winning.  In reality, they are losing because they are endorsing wrongfully translated Gurbani.  These two groups ego only grows and they lose in the true game of life.  In the temporal world we as Sikhs can only do as much Vaheguru blesses us with.  When Vaheguru does not give us the strength to take on manmat.  Don't get sad or angry.  Take it as his hukam and keep going on Guru's path as to what he has given you.  

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