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I believe that, in more ways than one, this article might act as a potential eye-opener vis-a-vis the fall of Sikh Raaj. 

To quote an excerpt:

'The hidebound state which both the Hindu and Islamic doxas’ envision run on the concurrence of the power-wielder and it’s brokers viz. the Brahmin(s) or the Ulama. The socio-legal concepts devised, and implemented, in the Shastras and Shari’a are  designed to keep the proletariat in check from whom the danger of mutiny is ever-constant. To shatter this inimical nexus of Babur (the state) and Bipar (religious hypocrisy), Guru Nanak Dev Ji laid the ideological foundations of the Khalsa which were later made manifest by his nine successors. On his deathbed, in 1708 A.D., the tenth Nanak enjoined the Khalsa to ‘march towards stability and enduring prosperity by renouncing dogmatic traditionalism and the writ of any sacerdotal class…’ (17) The Sikh Gurus, doubtless, were well aware of the sub-continental past. Empire after empire had followed one another to the grave and politico-religious oppression had confined the proletariat to the merciless whims of his superiors. Political impermanence had arisen out of either theocracy or Caesaropapism relegating many a kingdom to oblivion. The medieval epoch, in the sub-continental context, was marked by the rise and fall of various polities namely the Maurya and Gupta empires; the Harsha empire confined to the north; the Pala empires in Bengal and Behar and so forth. (18) With the Khalsa being inherently equal, the birth of any sacerdotal class was well arrested whilst a quasi-democratic outlook was bequeathed to the body vis-a-vis it’s political approach. The question remains, was this outlook ever implemented?'  

https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2017/06/06/raj/

 

 

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33 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

Ajmer Singh on the problem of manipulation of the sikh kaum for national interests:

 

 

On that note, Akalis have manipulated the images of Misl Sirdaars and Maharajah Ranjit Singh to conquer vote banks. Apparently Badal's house is filled, top to bottom, with portrayals of the Maharajah- the one man rule link lol.

Edited by 13Mirch
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31 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

On that note, Akalis have manipulated the images of Misl Sirdaars and Maharajah Ranjit Singh to conquer vote banks. Apparently Badal's house is filled, top to bottom, with portrayals of the Maharajah- the one man rule link lol.

That's interesting. I wonder if he sees himself as a modern Ranjit Singh.

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On 6/7/2017 at 8:58 PM, 13Mirch said:

Most likely.

On that note, the Akalis promised to deliver a reign like Ranjit Singh's last time around. The only similarity, I was able to identify, was that Punjabis didn't have electricity back then and even under the Akalis things were the same.  

Ranjit Singh isn't someone who most Sikhs would look-up to. The true Sikhs during his time didn't really like him much either, for his lack of Maryada.

On 6/7/2017 at 6:03 AM, MisterrSingh said:

That's interesting. I wonder if he sees himself as a modern Ranjit Singh.

That's not that high of a standard, average Singhs and Kaurs today probably had a better Maryada than he did.

Edited by Jacfsing2

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8 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Ranjit Singh isn't someone who most Sikhs would look-up to. The true Sikhs during his time didn't really like him much either, for his lack of Maryada.

That's not that high of a standard, average Singhs and Kaurs today probably had a better Maryada then he did.

that's he was ayaashi was his downfall same with any other misl leaders they left Guru ji's counsel and followed the corrupt model of  rajputs.mughals and maratha

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7 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Yet he achieved - admittedly temporal - feats that no other Sikh has managed since those times. 

If we believe the strength of a people and its nation are recognisable in its successes on the non-spiritual plane, he's one of the greatest Sikhs of all time from a certain point of view. Those worldly victories may count for very little in the kingdom of God, but unfortunately the kingdom of Man is where we all reside whilst we breathe, and on that front Ranjit Singh made his mark not only for himself but for the benefit of our people. That counts for something.

Yes, but it was mostly his own personal kingdom, with just a Sikh name. Whereas Banda Singh Bahadur would take his time out of his day to do some Prachar, Ranjit Singh mostly added some idols at the most famous Gurdwaras at the time. We have to view Ranjit Singh's victories as his own personal victories, he fought among the Misls. 

His kingdom fell within 10 years of his death, the entire reign of the entire kingdom was 50 years. Even if the British didn't take it over it was going to collapse. The first majority was Muslims, and the largest minority was Hindu. There were already plans for revolution, different groups, (none of it actually happened because the Brits stalled such a revolution from happening).

If Ranjit Singh established a theocracy, my own view would be different. A monarchy is rule by blood or marriage, and despite him being an excellent secular king, his successors were just not meant to rule.

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2 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Yes, but it was mostly his own personal kingdom, with just a Sikh name. Whereas Banda Singh Bahadur would take his time out of his day to do some Prachar, Ranjit Singh mostly added some idols at the most famous Gurdwaras at the time. We have to view Ranjit Singh's victories as his own personal victories, he fought among the Misls. 

His kingdom fell within 10 years of his death, the entire reign of the entire kingdom was 50 years. Even if the British didn't take it over it was going to collapse. The first majority was Muslims, and the largest minority was Hindu. There were already plans for revolution, different groups, (none of it actually happened because the Brits stalled such a revolution from happening).

If Ranjit Singh established a theocracy, my own view would be different. A monarchy is rule by blood or marriage, and despite him being an excellent secular king, his successors were just not meant to rule.

I'm not disputing any of that. What I'm saying is that he still managed to achieve something impressive. 

Plus, you need to tone down the dreams of a theocracy, lol. Democracy is proving to be incredibly flawed, but a theocracy just won't prosper on earth the way things are. The current consciousness of the human race means theocratic rule is doomed from the very beginning. 

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Just now, MisterrSingh said:

Plus, you need to tone down the dreams of a theocracy, lol. Democracy is proving to be incredibly flawed, but a theocracy just won't prosper on earth the way things are. The current consciousness of the human race means theocratic rule is doomed from the very beginning. 

+1, so what do you suggest we have? Democracy means the rule of the majority, (and no offense, but most Sikhs are not really logical if they could vote Badal). Monarchy has his own problems based on blood rather than logic. I just want the rule to be from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, :waheguru:. Today people are forgetting Guru Sahib is still here, and going to fake Babas everywhere. 

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1 minute ago, Jacfsing2 said:

+1, so what do you suggest we have? Democracy means the rule of the majority, (and no offense, but most Sikhs are not really logical if they could vote Badal). Monarchy has his own problems based on blood rather than logic. I just want the rule to be from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, :waheguru:. Today people are forgetting Guru Sahib is still here, and going to fake Babas everywhere. 

What do I suggest? We wait for the previously mentioned shift in human consciousness. A couple of worldwide events of an apocalyptic nature will hurry up the process. The decimation of a few billion lives will focus minds. If there's anything left of the Earth after such events,  you can have your theocracy.

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21 minutes ago, jashb said:

And I believe that we were given Maharaja Ranjit Singh to learn from his successes and failures for a reason.

Amazing post, and your final line above is the conclusion I'm drawn to regarding the man in question. 

 

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27 minutes ago, jashb said:

Furthermore, by appointing non-Sikhs and worse still even non-Panjabis to the government, he committed the fatal mistake that made the collapse of Khalsa Raj inevitable. These outsiders had no stake whatsoever in the continuing future as a going concern of Panjab. Even a fool with no respect for Guru Ji's hukams should have been able to see what was forthcoming. Yet, the Maharaja apparently didn't.

+1, He did what he wanted to do, without thinking of everyone involved. But what's wrong with having Non-Punjabi Sikhs? I think our greatest problem is limiting the Prachar to Punjab. The worst thing was giving a falling empire to a family that was obsessed with being king, most of his successors only ruled for about a year.

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    • I would like to humbly say to any Ramgarhia Sikhs reading this that you have been blessed to have knowledge of Satguru. After having obtained Gian of the Guru, why would you ever need to pray to or worship lower deities? Bhai Gurdas ji refers to these lower deities in his Kabits as Aaan Dev (other deities): ਕਉਡਾ ਪੈਸਾ ਰੁਪਈਆ ਸੁਨਈਆ ਕੋ ਬਨਜ ਕਰੈ ਰਤਨ ਪਾਰਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਜਉਹਰੀ ਕਹਾਵਈ । Kaudaa Paisaa Roupaeeaa Sounaeeaa Ko Banaj Karai , Ratan Paarakhu Hoi Jauharee Kahaavaee । Just as one starts dealing in shells in the beginning, then in money, gold coins and then becomes evaluator of diamonds and precious stones. He is then called a jeweller.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੧   ਜਉਹਰੀ ਕਹਾਇ ਪੁਨ ਕਉਡਾ ਕੋ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੈ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਨ ਮੈ ਪਤਸਿਟਾ ਘਟਾਵਈ । Jauharee Kahaai Poun Kaudaa Ko Banaju Karai , Panch Paravaan Mai Patasitaa Ghataavaee । But after becoming famous as a jeweller, one starts dealing in shells, he loses his respect among the elite people.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੨   ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸੇਵ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਕੋ ਸੇਵਕ ਹੁਇ ਲੋਕ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਬਿਖੈ ਊਚ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਵਈ । Aan Dayv Sayv Gurdayv Ko Sayvak Hui , Lok Paralok Bikhai Ooch Padu Paavaee । Similarly, if a follower of some god comes into the service of True Guru, he acquires high status in this and the world beyond.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੩   ਛਾਡਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੇਵ ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸੇਵਕ ਹੁਇ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਜਨਮੁ ਕਪੂਤ ਹੁਇ ਹਸਾਵਈ ॥੪੭੯॥ Chhaadi Gurdayv Sayv Aan Dayv Sayvak Hui , Nihadhal Janamu Kapoot Hui Hasaavaee ॥479॥ But if someone leaves the service of the True Guru, and becomes a follower of some other god, then he wastes away his human life and he is laughed at by others being known as a bad son.  (479) ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੪ It is one thing for people who are just starting on the path of spirituality to worship various devtas. But when you, by the Grace of the Guru, come to know about Satguru, you would never go back. All of us have been blessed to have born in the house of Guru Nanak ji. We have no need to devolve to a lower state.
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      ਵਾਰ ਸੂਹੀ ਕੀ ਸਲੋਕਾ ਨਾਲਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ 
      ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੇ ਜੀਵ ਕਾ ਵਿਛੋੜੇ ਅਰੁ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਵਤੇ ਹੂਏ ਵਾਰ ਅੁਚਾਰਨ 
      ਕਰਤੇ ਹੈਣ॥ 
      ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮ ੩ ॥ 
      ਸੂਹੈ ਵੇਸਿ ਦੋਹਾਗਂੀ ਪਰ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
      ਛੁਟੜ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਮੇਸਰ ਸੇ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਹੈਣ ਸੂਹੇ ਵੇਸ ਵਿਸੋਣ ਮੇਣ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰਕੇ 
      (ਪਰੁ ਪਿਰ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ) ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਤੋਣ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਨੇਣ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਪਿਰੁ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਮੋਹੀ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥ 
      (ਪਿਰੁ) ਪਤੀ ਜੋ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਸੋ (ਘਰਿ) ਅਪਨੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਮੈਣ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਦੂਜੇ ਭਾਵ ਮੈਣ 
      ਬੁਧੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਮਿਠਾ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਖਾਇਆ ਬਹੁ ਸਾਦਹੁ ਵਧਿਆ ਰੋਗੁ ॥ 
      (ਮਿਠਾ) ਭਾਵ ਸੁਖ ਰੂਪ ਕਰਕੈ ਬਿਸੋਣ ਕੋ ਭੋਗਾ ਥਾ ਬਿਸੇ ਰਸੋਣ ਸੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਰੋਗੁ ਵਧ 
      ਗਿਆ॥ 
      ਸੁਧੁ ਭਤਾਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਲਗਾ ਜਾਇ ਵਿਜੋਗੁ ॥ 
      ਸੁਧ ਭਰਤਾ ਜੋ ਹਰੀ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਫਿਰ ਜਨਮ ਕਰ ਵਿਛੋੜਾ ਹੀ ਲਾਗ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁ ਪਲਟਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੀਗਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਜੋ ਗੁਰੋਣ ਕੇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਤਿਸਨੇ ਸੂਹਾ ਵੇਸ ਅੁਤਾਰ ਕੇ ਮਜੀਠਾ ਵੇਸੁ ਬਦਲਿਆ ਹੈ 
      ਭਾਵ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰੀ ਹੈ ਔ ਸਾਧਨ ਰੂਪ ਸਿੰਗਾਰੁ (ਸਾਜਿ) ਬਨਾ ਕਰ ਹਰੀ ਮੈਣ ਰਾਤੀ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਸਹਜਿ ਸਚੁ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਅੁਰ ਧਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਹਰੀ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੋ ਰਿਦੇ ਮੈਣ ਧਾਰ ਕੇ ਸੁਖ ਰੂਪੁ ਪਾਰੇ ਕੇ ਆਨੰਦ ਕੋ ਸੁਭਾਵਕ ਹੀ ਭੋਗਾ 
      ਹੈ॥ 
      ਆਗਿਆਕਾਰੀ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਆਪਿ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਸੋ ਆਗਾਕਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਵਹੁ ਆਪ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ ਮੇਲ ਲਈ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਤੇ ਓਹੁ ਸਦਾ 
      ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਨਾਨਕ ਪਿਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਨਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ 
      ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਹਤੇ ਹੈਣ ਜਿਸਨੇ ਹਰੀ ਰੂਪ ਸਜ਼ਚਾ ਭਰਤਾ ਪਾਯਾ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਜੀਵ ਰੂਪ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ 
      ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥੧॥    Like a woman separated from her husband goes to ravish (be ravished by) other men, the man who turns away from Parmesar goes to serve devis and devtas. She has forsaken the Husband (Waheguru) in her heart and has been ensnared with duja bhav. She thinks it to be sweet, and eats it with relish, increasing the disease. She has abandoned the pure Husband and suffers separation. The one who is faithful to the Guru does devotional worship of Waheguru and embellishes herself being in God. Enshrining the name of Waheguru in her heart she obtains bliss. Obedient, she is always in marital bliss and the Creator Himself has allowed her to meet Him. Guru Nanak Dev ji says that whoever has found the true Husband, she is the true holder of marital bliss.  
    • Fair enough. While I'm in agreement that idol worship is not part of Sikhi, I believe the tuks you have posted have been posted out of context here. The bani above is referring to those whose spritual mode of worship is only idol worship. Those who think that Parmeshwar resides only in the idol. Those who have no other forms of worship and still think they are saved by doing puja of a pathar/image. That's not really what's happening in the video (I don't think so anyway). Do bear in mind I'm not completely justifying what they're doing. I would need to know more details before I could personally comment what side of the fence this lands on. For example, if this is a regular thing or only done on a certain day i.e. Vishwakarma Day etc, what they believe about Vishwakarma and what he represents for them, and what their intentions are as well as what their sharda and bhaavna is, in performing this Aarti? And of course their maksad. As I always say, things are rarely black and white.  
    • Brother, the reason we (or at least, some Sikhs) do Aarti of Guru Sahib is because we worship Guru Sahib. The reason it's a "big deal" is because it's spiritual adultery. Even if it were accepted that you can do aarti of a saint or elder, they are not doing that. They are not doing Aarti of Lord Vishwakarma, but rather of a picture of Vishwakarma, which sets them up for the spiritual transgression of idol worship. Guru Nanak Dev ji on idol worship: ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Salok Mehalaa 1 || ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੦  ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods. ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ ॥ You wash your stone gods and worship them. ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ ॥ You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.   ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ ॥ Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.   ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ ॥ Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat. ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished. ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਨ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ ॥ Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying. ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥ The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1|| ਸਾਰੰਗ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੯) ਸ. (੧) ੧:੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨ 
      Raag Sarang Guru Nanak Dev   Guru Arjan Dev ji in Raag Bharo: ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Mehala 5 || ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਕਹਤੇ ਦੇਵ ॥ Those who call a stone their god ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਵ ॥ Their service is useless. ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਂਈ ਪਾਇ ॥ Those who fall at the feet of a stone god ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਘਾਲ ਅਜਾਂਈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ - their work is wasted in vain. ||1||   The people who do this (idol worship) will sink in the worldly ocean: ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਹਨੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ Kabeer, someone sets up a stone idol and all the world worships it as the Lord. ਇਸ ਭਰਵਾਸੇ ਜੋ ਰਹੇ ਬੂਡੇ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਾਰ ॥੧੩੬॥ Those who hold to this belief will be drowned in the river of darkness. ||136|| ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੩੬):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੧ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
      Salok Bhagat Kabir    
    • Like I said maybe they shouldn't have been doing Aarti, not in the Gurdwara anyway. But the picture in itself shouldn't be a problem. Mahapurkhs have been known to keep pictures of Devi Devte, they weren't allergic to imagery, especially imagery you could say that makes up "Dharam" as a whole. Maybe not the picture shown in the video, but such imagery was commonplace and is part of our heritage. As is evident from the small selection of pictures I posted. The level of Hinduphobia amongst our people borders on idiocy.
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