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7 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Ranjit Singh only got strong because of the hard workers who fought to make his dream a reality, what he did was betray the hard workers, for his own self-interests. Also it's not a Sikh country, just another random state, that if he wasn't so selfish could have been a theocracy. Banda Singh Bahadur brought justice to someone who made a Shaheed of my Guru, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji), and the Chote Sahibzade, if there is anything I feel bad about that, it's that it wasn't me. Otherwise he was perfectly fine for someone who's not Guru Sahib himself, he made Guru Sahib proud, and you are here insulting him while praising Ranjit Singh? His own child became a Shaheed, while Ranjit Singh's son converted to Pakhandi Baba Jesus.

You're attributing extremely rare spiritual traits reserved for divinity and similar beings, and expecting mere mortals - albeit exceptionally able men in a non-divine sense - to live up to the standards of our Guru Sahibs and select souls such as Baba Deep Singh and others in that class of personality. You're really hard to impress, lol.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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On 08/06/2017 at 11:51 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

But what's wrong with having Non-Punjabi Sikhs? I think our greatest problem is limiting the Prachar to Punjab.

 

Where have I said there's anything wrong with having "Non-Punjabi Sikhs"? You are deluded if you believe that non-Panjabis and "Non-Punjabi Sikhs" are the same thing.

The entirely reasonable and justifiable position in this respect is that putting non-Sikhs and furthermore non-Panjabis in charge of the destiny of Panjab was an incredibly poor, stupid, and myopic decision by Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Moreover, it treated with utter contempt the very Guru Sahiban in whose name he claimed to rule. This does not in anyone's wildest imagination equal the kind of anti-Sikh discrimination you have tried to allege.

What is there about the distinction between these two disparate groups of people that you don't understand? Are you one of those people that have been brainwashed into believing that Panjabis and Sikhs are equivalent terms? Or do you simply believe the retarded equation that "Panjabi = Sikh"?

Explain yourself. There are 90 million reasons why you and others like you are wrong.

 

 

On 08/06/2017 at 11:51 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

The worst thing was giving a falling empire to a family that was obsessed with being king, most of his successors only ruled for about a year.

 

You really need to read about the demise of Khalsa Raj from an objective, authentic, and truly Sikh source (stress applied on the latter factor being operative), then come back here when you're ready. I can help to point you in the right direction. But only if you're willing.

Frankly speaking, it was a stupid and nepotic mistake. But it was by no means his worst decision. I'm no fan of Kharak Singh. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't have been given the opportunity to rule once appointed. Moreover, this wasn't the incredibly poor, stupid, and myopic decision I referred to that so strictly and brazenly violated Guru Ji's hukams.

Understand this. There were then, and there remain, certain non-Sikh elements, that we have stupidly permitted, in our blind sleep, to infiltrate our society, that walk the walk, and talk the talk, yet do not hold the authentic Sikh ethos and interests in the form of Khalsa Halemi Raj in any way shape or form at heart. It is not that sincere Sikhs that existed at the time of the events being referred to didn't have the parkh to recognise this fact. It is, that, to a large extent, their hands were tied by a regime that started more or less as a Sikh democracy, and ended definitively as an anti-Sikh autocracy. It was these non-Sikh, nay, anti-Sikh elements that had no intention of ever letting a Sikh, even one like Kharak Singh, from succeeding to rule.

 

Edited by jashb
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Guest Jacfsing2
7 minutes ago, jashb said:

Are you one of those people that have been brainwashed into believing that Panjabis and Sikhs are equivalent terms? Or do you simply believe the retarded equation that "Panjabi = Sikh"?

No.

9 minutes ago, jashb said:

You really need to read about the demise of Khalsa Raj from an objective, authentic, and truly Sikh source (stress applied on the latter factor being operative), then come back here when you're ready. I can help to point you in the right direction. But only if you're willing.

Frankly speaking, it was a stupid and nepotic mistake. But it was by no means his worst decision. I'm no fan of Kharak Singh. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't have been given the opportunity to rule once appointed. Moreover, this wasn't the incredibly poor, stupid, and myopic decision I referred to that so strictly and brazenly violated Guru Ji's hukams.

Understand this. There were then, and there remain, certain non-Sikh elements, that we have stupidly permitted, in our blind sleep, to infiltrate our society, that walk the walk, and talk the talk, yet do not hold the authentic Sikh ethos and interests in the form of Khalsa Halemi Raj in any way shape or form at heart. It is not that sincere Sikhs that existed at the time of the events being referred to didn't have the parkh to recognise this fact. It is, that, to a large extent, their hands were tied by a regime that started more or less as a Sikh democracy, and ended definitively as an anti-Sikh autocracy. It was these non-Sikh, nay, anti-Sikh elements that had no intention of ever letting a Sikh, even one like Kharak Singh, from succeeding to rule.

I don't know how Kharak Singh would have ruled, since he didn't have enough time, but I am refering to all the assassinations and royal deaths for Ranjit Singh's successors. In 10 years there were 5 kings. 

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On 6/9/2017 at 2:58 AM, MisterrSingh said:

Yet he achieved - admittedly temporal - feats that no other Sikh has managed since those times. 

If we believe the strength of a people and its nation are recognisable in its successes on the non-spiritual plane, he's one of the greatest Sikhs of all time from a certain point of view. Those worldly victories may count for very little in the kingdom of God, but unfortunately the kingdom of Man is where we all reside whilst we breathe, and on that front Ranjit Singh made his mark not only for himself but for the benefit of our people. That counts for something.

I believe Napolean was similar- by attempting to embody the French Revolution in an autocratic framework he corrupted it's premise of equality for all, but in socio-political terms revamped contemporary Europe for the better.

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On 2017-6-7 at 3:33 PM, MisterrSingh said:

That's interesting. I wonder if he sees himself as a modern Ranjit Singh.

He does ! Even when he sits with his cabinet, there's a big maharaja ranjit singh painting backing him 

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1 hour ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

He does ! Even when he sits with his cabinet, there's a big maharaja ranjit singh painting backing him 

In his dreams, the sly dog.

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7 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

In his dreams, the sly dog.

not long to go and then he will hear from the Real King

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Just now, MisterrSingh said:

Nah, i just can't help myself at times.

I know most punjabis will be dancing like Carlton Banks convinced they look like Elvis that day

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7 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

I know most punjabis will be dancing like Carlton Banks convinced they look like Elvis that day

Meanwhile, in Bathinda:

 

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On 6/8/2017 at 5:23 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

he true Sikhs during his time didn't really like him much either, for his lack of Maryada.

Truth is that habits like drinking and watching nautch dance were very common among Indian rulers and misldars. True Sikhs of that time only existed among Nirmala and Nihang orders. Most Punjabis didn't cared much about habits of their ruler. Instead, the prosperity he brought to the region made him a hero in their eyes.

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7 hours ago, 5akaalsingh said:

Truth is that habits like drinking and watching nautch dance were very common among Indian rulers and misldars. True Sikhs of that time only existed among Nirmala and Nihang orders. Most Punjabis didn't cared much about habits of their ruler. Instead, the prosperity he brought to the region made him a hero in their eyes.

That's about the truth of it.

Jacfsingh is talking out of his ar5e. But ALL contemporary accounts, people in Panjab LOVED Maharajah Ranjit Singh. 

Only modern prudes like the above have an issue with him. 

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    • I would like to humbly say to any Ramgarhia Sikhs reading this that you have been blessed to have knowledge of Satguru. After having obtained Gian of the Guru, why would you ever need to pray to or worship lower deities? Bhai Gurdas ji refers to these lower deities in his Kabits as Aaan Dev (other deities): ਕਉਡਾ ਪੈਸਾ ਰੁਪਈਆ ਸੁਨਈਆ ਕੋ ਬਨਜ ਕਰੈ ਰਤਨ ਪਾਰਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਜਉਹਰੀ ਕਹਾਵਈ । Kaudaa Paisaa Roupaeeaa Sounaeeaa Ko Banaj Karai , Ratan Paarakhu Hoi Jauharee Kahaavaee । Just as one starts dealing in shells in the beginning, then in money, gold coins and then becomes evaluator of diamonds and precious stones. He is then called a jeweller.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੧   ਜਉਹਰੀ ਕਹਾਇ ਪੁਨ ਕਉਡਾ ਕੋ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੈ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਨ ਮੈ ਪਤਸਿਟਾ ਘਟਾਵਈ । Jauharee Kahaai Poun Kaudaa Ko Banaju Karai , Panch Paravaan Mai Patasitaa Ghataavaee । But after becoming famous as a jeweller, one starts dealing in shells, he loses his respect among the elite people.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੨   ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸੇਵ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਕੋ ਸੇਵਕ ਹੁਇ ਲੋਕ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਬਿਖੈ ਊਚ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਵਈ । Aan Dayv Sayv Gurdayv Ko Sayvak Hui , Lok Paralok Bikhai Ooch Padu Paavaee । Similarly, if a follower of some god comes into the service of True Guru, he acquires high status in this and the world beyond.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੩   ਛਾਡਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੇਵ ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸੇਵਕ ਹੁਇ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਜਨਮੁ ਕਪੂਤ ਹੁਇ ਹਸਾਵਈ ॥੪੭੯॥ Chhaadi Gurdayv Sayv Aan Dayv Sayvak Hui , Nihadhal Janamu Kapoot Hui Hasaavaee ॥479॥ But if someone leaves the service of the True Guru, and becomes a follower of some other god, then he wastes away his human life and he is laughed at by others being known as a bad son.  (479) ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੪ It is one thing for people who are just starting on the path of spirituality to worship various devtas. But when you, by the Grace of the Guru, come to know about Satguru, you would never go back. All of us have been blessed to have born in the house of Guru Nanak ji. We have no need to devolve to a lower state.
    • More on spiritual adultery. This is from Vaar Suhi by Guru Amar Dass ji, translation by the Nirmalas, a traditional Sikh order in the Faridkot Teeka: ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ 
      ਵਾਰ ਸੂਹੀ ਕੀ ਸਲੋਕਾ ਨਾਲਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ 
      ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੇ ਜੀਵ ਕਾ ਵਿਛੋੜੇ ਅਰੁ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਵਤੇ ਹੂਏ ਵਾਰ ਅੁਚਾਰਨ 
      ਕਰਤੇ ਹੈਣ॥ 
      ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮ ੩ ॥ 
      ਸੂਹੈ ਵੇਸਿ ਦੋਹਾਗਂੀ ਪਰ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
      ਛੁਟੜ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਮੇਸਰ ਸੇ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਹੈਣ ਸੂਹੇ ਵੇਸ ਵਿਸੋਣ ਮੇਣ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰਕੇ 
      (ਪਰੁ ਪਿਰ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ) ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਤੋਣ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਨੇਣ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਪਿਰੁ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਮੋਹੀ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥ 
      (ਪਿਰੁ) ਪਤੀ ਜੋ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਸੋ (ਘਰਿ) ਅਪਨੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਮੈਣ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਦੂਜੇ ਭਾਵ ਮੈਣ 
      ਬੁਧੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਮਿਠਾ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਖਾਇਆ ਬਹੁ ਸਾਦਹੁ ਵਧਿਆ ਰੋਗੁ ॥ 
      (ਮਿਠਾ) ਭਾਵ ਸੁਖ ਰੂਪ ਕਰਕੈ ਬਿਸੋਣ ਕੋ ਭੋਗਾ ਥਾ ਬਿਸੇ ਰਸੋਣ ਸੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਰੋਗੁ ਵਧ 
      ਗਿਆ॥ 
      ਸੁਧੁ ਭਤਾਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਲਗਾ ਜਾਇ ਵਿਜੋਗੁ ॥ 
      ਸੁਧ ਭਰਤਾ ਜੋ ਹਰੀ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਫਿਰ ਜਨਮ ਕਰ ਵਿਛੋੜਾ ਹੀ ਲਾਗ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁ ਪਲਟਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੀਗਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਜੋ ਗੁਰੋਣ ਕੇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਤਿਸਨੇ ਸੂਹਾ ਵੇਸ ਅੁਤਾਰ ਕੇ ਮਜੀਠਾ ਵੇਸੁ ਬਦਲਿਆ ਹੈ 
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      ਹੈ॥ 
      ਆਗਿਆਕਾਰੀ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਆਪਿ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਸੋ ਆਗਾਕਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਵਹੁ ਆਪ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ ਮੇਲ ਲਈ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਤੇ ਓਹੁ ਸਦਾ 
      ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਨਾਨਕ ਪਿਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਨਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ 
      ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਹਤੇ ਹੈਣ ਜਿਸਨੇ ਹਰੀ ਰੂਪ ਸਜ਼ਚਾ ਭਰਤਾ ਪਾਯਾ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਜੀਵ ਰੂਪ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ 
      ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥੧॥    Like a woman separated from her husband goes to ravish (be ravished by) other men, the man who turns away from Parmesar goes to serve devis and devtas. She has forsaken the Husband (Waheguru) in her heart and has been ensnared with duja bhav. She thinks it to be sweet, and eats it with relish, increasing the disease. She has abandoned the pure Husband and suffers separation. The one who is faithful to the Guru does devotional worship of Waheguru and embellishes herself being in God. Enshrining the name of Waheguru in her heart she obtains bliss. Obedient, she is always in marital bliss and the Creator Himself has allowed her to meet Him. Guru Nanak Dev ji says that whoever has found the true Husband, she is the true holder of marital bliss.  
    • Fair enough. While I'm in agreement that idol worship is not part of Sikhi, I believe the tuks you have posted have been posted out of context here. The bani above is referring to those whose spritual mode of worship is only idol worship. Those who think that Parmeshwar resides only in the idol. Those who have no other forms of worship and still think they are saved by doing puja of a pathar/image. That's not really what's happening in the video (I don't think so anyway). Do bear in mind I'm not completely justifying what they're doing. I would need to know more details before I could personally comment what side of the fence this lands on. For example, if this is a regular thing or only done on a certain day i.e. Vishwakarma Day etc, what they believe about Vishwakarma and what he represents for them, and what their intentions are as well as what their sharda and bhaavna is, in performing this Aarti? And of course their maksad. As I always say, things are rarely black and white.  
    • Brother, the reason we (or at least, some Sikhs) do Aarti of Guru Sahib is because we worship Guru Sahib. The reason it's a "big deal" is because it's spiritual adultery. Even if it were accepted that you can do aarti of a saint or elder, they are not doing that. They are not doing Aarti of Lord Vishwakarma, but rather of a picture of Vishwakarma, which sets them up for the spiritual transgression of idol worship. Guru Nanak Dev ji on idol worship: ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Salok Mehalaa 1 || ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੦  ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods. ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ ॥ You wash your stone gods and worship them. ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ ॥ You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.   ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ ॥ Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.   ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ ॥ Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat. ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished. ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਨ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ ॥ Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying. ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥ The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1|| ਸਾਰੰਗ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੯) ਸ. (੧) ੧:੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨ 
      Raag Sarang Guru Nanak Dev   Guru Arjan Dev ji in Raag Bharo: ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Mehala 5 || ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਕਹਤੇ ਦੇਵ ॥ Those who call a stone their god ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਵ ॥ Their service is useless. ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਂਈ ਪਾਇ ॥ Those who fall at the feet of a stone god ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਘਾਲ ਅਜਾਂਈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ - their work is wasted in vain. ||1||   The people who do this (idol worship) will sink in the worldly ocean: ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਹਨੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ Kabeer, someone sets up a stone idol and all the world worships it as the Lord. ਇਸ ਭਰਵਾਸੇ ਜੋ ਰਹੇ ਬੂਡੇ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਾਰ ॥੧੩੬॥ Those who hold to this belief will be drowned in the river of darkness. ||136|| ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੩੬):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੧ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
      Salok Bhagat Kabir    
    • Like I said maybe they shouldn't have been doing Aarti, not in the Gurdwara anyway. But the picture in itself shouldn't be a problem. Mahapurkhs have been known to keep pictures of Devi Devte, they weren't allergic to imagery, especially imagery you could say that makes up "Dharam" as a whole. Maybe not the picture shown in the video, but such imagery was commonplace and is part of our heritage. As is evident from the small selection of pictures I posted. The level of Hinduphobia amongst our people borders on idiocy.
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