Internal Atrophy of Sikh Autonomy

[MisterrSingh]

7 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

 

 

You said "Non-Punjabi Sikhs," he didn't. Why'd you drag religion into it when he was referring to culture? You do understand why he made the distinction?

[dallysingh101]

17 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Yes, but it was mostly his own personal kingdom, with just a Sikh name. Whereas Banda Singh Bahadur would take his time out of his day to do some Prachar, Ranjit Singh mostly added some idols at the most famous Gurdwaras at the time. We have to view Ranjit Singh's victories as his own personal victories, he fought among the Misls. 

You talk about Banda Singh Bahadur like this but it appears as if he had his own issues with many high ranking members of the Khalsa who perceived some of his practices as a deviation from accepted norms. Read Bhangu's work to learn all about it.

You need to study more before you open your mouth.

And truth be told. One Ranjit Singh is worth (at least) a million of Singhs like you mate. He got 5hit done, and created a powerful modern country out of chaos, and whilst surrounded by enemies on all sides. All you've done is b1tch out the place on the net.  And I bet you still haven't started training, or going to a shooting range out there in the states. Do you even ever leave your house? 

[jkvlondon]

9 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

+1, He did what he wanted to do, without thinking of everyone involved. But what's wrong with having Non-Punjabi Sikhs? I think our greatest problem is limiting the Prachar to Punjab. The worst thing was giving a falling empire to a family that was obsessed with being king, most of his successors only ruled for about a year.

The non-punjabis in this case were Europeans, Americans, Hindus, Muslims not sikhs 

[jkvlondon]

6 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

You talk about Banda Singh Bahadur like this but it appears as if he had his own issues with many high ranking members of the Khalsa who perceived some of his practices as a deviation from accepted norms. Read Bhangu's work to learn all about it.

You need to study more before you open your mouth.

And truth be told. One Ranjit Singh is worth (at least) a million of Singhs like you mate. He got 5hit done, and created a powerful modern country out of chaos, and whilst surrounded by enemies on all sides. All you've done is b1tch out the place on the net.  And I bet you still haven't started training, or going to a shooting range out there in the states. Do you even ever leave your house? 

He only got stuff done because of his highly political Mother-in -law ...she was the initial driving force with other Misl leaders

[dallysingh101]

1 minute ago, jkvlondon said:

He only got stuff done because of his highly political Mother-in -law ...she was the initial driving force with other Misl leaders

Yeah sure, none of his own efforts and characteristics played a part. It was all down to a women.....

[jkvlondon]

1 minute ago, dallysingh101 said:

Yeah sure, none of his own efforts and characteristics played a part. It was all down to a women.....

you forget he was a just a teen  at the beginning and she was the general of her husband's misl after his death, and he was surrounded by khalsa of greater experience who did the spade work , do not diminish how much he owed to his elders and army. Without them he would not have achieved that much and would have been another minor leader ...

[dallysingh101]

1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

you forget he was a just a teen  at the beginning and she was the general of her husband's misl after his death, and he was surrounded by khalsa of greater experience who did the spade work , do not diminish how much he owed to his elders and army. Without them he would not have achieved that much and would have been another minor leader ...

I'm not doubting that. But what he achieved in his life, is down to his own resourcefulness and tenacity. Remember this is guy who as a teen, had the confidence to kill and behead another older (and more experienced) leader who tried to ambush him when he encountered him hunting on his own in a forest!

I've said it before on the forum. Some of us don't necessarily want some excessively overtly pious momma's boy type to lead us. Me personally, I want strength, courage and foresight in a leader with the ability and vision to build a strong society that faces up to and incorporates common human weakness into it. Ranjit Singh met this criteria. 

That the people who proceeded him didn't have his characteristics and abilities which led to a fall in SIkh power, isn't his fault. By all (contemporary) accounts he was generally a benevolent patriarch towards his subjects. That's what we need. Not another ugly, greedy, self-inflicted and self-centred peasant like Badal and son. 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

You talk about Banda Singh Bahadur like this but it appears as if he had his own issues with many high ranking members of the Khalsa who perceived some of his practices as a deviation from accepted norms. Read Bhangu's work to learn all about it.

You need to study more before you open your mouth.

And truth be told. One Ranjit Singh is worth (at least) a million of Singhs like you mate. He got 5hit done, and created a powerful modern country out of chaos, and whilst surrounded by enemies on all sides. All you've done is b1tch out the place on the net.  And I bet you still haven't started training, or going to a shooting range out there in the states. Do you even ever leave your house? 

Ranjit Singh only got strong because of the hard workers who fought to make his dream a reality, what he did was betray the hard workers, for his own self-interests. Also it's not a Sikh country, just another random state, that if he wasn't so selfish could have been a theocracy. Banda Singh Bahadur brought justice to someone who made a Shaheed of my Guru, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji), and the Chote Sahibzade, if there is anything I feel bad about that, it's that it wasn't me. Otherwise he was perfectly fine for someone who's not Guru Sahib himself, he made Guru Sahib proud, and you are here insulting him while praising Ranjit Singh? His own child became a Shaheed, while Ranjit Singh's son converted to Pakhandi Baba Jesus.

[dallysingh101]

5 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Ranjit Singh only got strong because of the hard workers who fought to make his dream a reality, what he did was betray the hard workers, for his own self-interests. Also it's not a Sikh country, just another random state, that if he wasn't so selfish could have been a theocracy. Banda Singh Bahadur brought justice to someone who made a Shaheed of my Guru, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji), and the Chote Sahibzade, if there is anything I feel bad about that, it's that it wasn't me. Otherwise he was perfectly fine for someone who's not Guru Sahib himself, he made Guru Sahib proud, and you are here insulting him while praising Ranjit Singh? His own child became a Shaheed, while Ranjit Singh's son converted to Pakhandi Baba Jesus.

Maybe he was realistic about ruling a volatile swathe of land. You think you could have done a better job? I doubt you would have lasted a week in that environment. 

If his son was essentially kidnapped and brainwashed as a child,thousands of miles away from his people and family, it's hardly his fault that he converted is it.  

[Ranjeet01]

5 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Ranjit Singh only got strong because of the hard workers who fought to make his dream a reality, what he did was betray the hard workers, for his own self-interests. Also it's not a Sikh country, just another random state, that if he wasn't so selfish could have been a theocracy. Banda Singh Bahadur brought justice to someone who made a Shaheed of my Guru, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji), and the Chote Sahibzade, if there is anything I feel bad about that, it's that it wasn't me. Otherwise he was perfectly fine for someone who's not Guru Sahib himself, he made Guru Sahib proud, and you are here insulting him while praising Ranjit Singh? His own child became a Shaheed, while Ranjit Singh's son converted to Pakhandi Baba Jesus.

Ranjit Singh was very astute politically. He obvious understood human nature very well.

As a leader you cannot do it all yourself but you surround yourself with better people and delegate. That is what he did.

He was able to bring all these people together and create a successful state,  that is a talent/skill in itself.

It may not have been the perfect state or an Idealist Sikh state but it is best that we ever had.