Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I believe that, in more ways than one, this article might act as a potential eye-opener vis-a-vis the fall of Sikh Raaj. 

To quote an excerpt:

'The hidebound state which both the Hindu and Islamic doxas’ envision run on the concurrence of the power-wielder and it’s brokers viz. the Brahmin(s) or the Ulama. The socio-legal concepts devised, and implemented, in the Shastras and Shari’a are  designed to keep the proletariat in check from whom the danger of mutiny is ever-constant. To shatter this inimical nexus of Babur (the state) and Bipar (religious hypocrisy), Guru Nanak Dev Ji laid the ideological foundations of the Khalsa which were later made manifest by his nine successors. On his deathbed, in 1708 A.D., the tenth Nanak enjoined the Khalsa to ‘march towards stability and enduring prosperity by renouncing dogmatic traditionalism and the writ of any sacerdotal class…’ (17) The Sikh Gurus, doubtless, were well aware of the sub-continental past. Empire after empire had followed one another to the grave and politico-religious oppression had confined the proletariat to the merciless whims of his superiors. Political impermanence had arisen out of either theocracy or Caesaropapism relegating many a kingdom to oblivion. The medieval epoch, in the sub-continental context, was marked by the rise and fall of various polities namely the Maurya and Gupta empires; the Harsha empire confined to the north; the Pala empires in Bengal and Behar and so forth. (18) With the Khalsa being inherently equal, the birth of any sacerdotal class was well arrested whilst a quasi-democratic outlook was bequeathed to the body vis-a-vis it’s political approach. The question remains, was this outlook ever implemented?'  

https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2017/06/06/raj/

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

Ajmer Singh on the problem of manipulation of the sikh kaum for national interests:

 

 

On that note, Akalis have manipulated the images of Misl Sirdaars and Maharajah Ranjit Singh to conquer vote banks. Apparently Badal's house is filled, top to bottom, with portrayals of the Maharajah- the one man rule link lol.

Edited by 13Mirch
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, 13Mirch said:

On that note, Akalis have manipulated the images of Misl Sirdaars and Maharajah Ranjit Singh to conquer vote banks. Apparently Badal's house is filled, top to bottom, with portrayals of the Maharajah- the one man rule link lol.

That's interesting. I wonder if he sees himself as a modern Ranjit Singh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jacfsing2
On 6/7/2017 at 8:58 PM, 13Mirch said:

Most likely.

On that note, the Akalis promised to deliver a reign like Ranjit Singh's last time around. The only similarity, I was able to identify, was that Punjabis didn't have electricity back then and even under the Akalis things were the same.  

Ranjit Singh isn't someone who most Sikhs would look-up to. The true Sikhs during his time didn't really like him much either, for his lack of Maryada.

On 6/7/2017 at 6:03 AM, MisterrSingh said:

That's interesting. I wonder if he sees himself as a modern Ranjit Singh.

That's not that high of a standard, average Singhs and Kaurs today probably had a better Maryada than he did.

Edited by Jacfsing2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Ranjit Singh isn't someone who most Sikhs would look-up to. The true Sikhs during his time didn't really like him much either, for his lack of Maryada.

That's not that high of a standard, average Singhs and Kaurs today probably had a better Maryada then he did.

that's he was ayaashi was his downfall same with any other misl leaders they left Guru ji's counsel and followed the corrupt model of  rajputs.mughals and maratha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jacfsing2
7 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Yet he achieved - admittedly temporal - feats that no other Sikh has managed since those times. 

If we believe the strength of a people and its nation are recognisable in its successes on the non-spiritual plane, he's one of the greatest Sikhs of all time from a certain point of view. Those worldly victories may count for very little in the kingdom of God, but unfortunately the kingdom of Man is where we all reside whilst we breathe, and on that front Ranjit Singh made his mark not only for himself but for the benefit of our people. That counts for something.

Yes, but it was mostly his own personal kingdom, with just a Sikh name. Whereas Banda Singh Bahadur would take his time out of his day to do some Prachar, Ranjit Singh mostly added some idols at the most famous Gurdwaras at the time. We have to view Ranjit Singh's victories as his own personal victories, he fought among the Misls. 

His kingdom fell within 10 years of his death, the entire reign of the entire kingdom was 50 years. Even if the British didn't take it over it was going to collapse. The first majority was Muslims, and the largest minority was Hindu. There were already plans for revolution, different groups, (none of it actually happened because the Brits stalled such a revolution from happening).

If Ranjit Singh established a theocracy, my own view would be different. A monarchy is rule by blood or marriage, and despite him being an excellent secular king, his successors were just not meant to rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Yes, but it was mostly his own personal kingdom, with just a Sikh name. Whereas Banda Singh Bahadur would take his time out of his day to do some Prachar, Ranjit Singh mostly added some idols at the most famous Gurdwaras at the time. We have to view Ranjit Singh's victories as his own personal victories, he fought among the Misls. 

His kingdom fell within 10 years of his death, the entire reign of the entire kingdom was 50 years. Even if the British didn't take it over it was going to collapse. The first majority was Muslims, and the largest minority was Hindu. There were already plans for revolution, different groups, (none of it actually happened because the Brits stalled such a revolution from happening).

If Ranjit Singh established a theocracy, my own view would be different. A monarchy is rule by blood or marriage, and despite him being an excellent secular king, his successors were just not meant to rule.

I'm not disputing any of that. What I'm saying is that he still managed to achieve something impressive. 

Plus, you need to tone down the dreams of a theocracy, lol. Democracy is proving to be incredibly flawed, but a theocracy just won't prosper on earth the way things are. The current consciousness of the human race means theocratic rule is doomed from the very beginning. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jacfsing2
Just now, MisterrSingh said:

Plus, you need to tone down the dreams of a theocracy, lol. Democracy is proving to be incredibly flawed, but a theocracy just won't prosper on earth the way things are. The current consciousness of the human race means theocratic rule is doomed from the very beginning. 

+1, so what do you suggest we have? Democracy means the rule of the majority, (and no offense, but most Sikhs are not really logical if they could vote Badal). Monarchy has his own problems based on blood rather than logic. I just want the rule to be from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, :waheguru:. Today people are forgetting Guru Sahib is still here, and going to fake Babas everywhere. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jacfsing2 said:

+1, so what do you suggest we have? Democracy means the rule of the majority, (and no offense, but most Sikhs are not really logical if they could vote Badal). Monarchy has his own problems based on blood rather than logic. I just want the rule to be from Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, :waheguru:. Today people are forgetting Guru Sahib is still here, and going to fake Babas everywhere. 

What do I suggest? We wait for the previously mentioned shift in human consciousness. A couple of worldwide events of an apocalyptic nature will hurry up the process. The decimation of a few billion lives will focus minds. If there's anything left of the Earth after such events,  you can have your theocracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, jashb said:

And I believe that we were given Maharaja Ranjit Singh to learn from his successes and failures for a reason.

Amazing post, and your final line above is the conclusion I'm drawn to regarding the man in question. 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Jacfsing2
27 minutes ago, jashb said:

Furthermore, by appointing non-Sikhs and worse still even non-Panjabis to the government, he committed the fatal mistake that made the collapse of Khalsa Raj inevitable. These outsiders had no stake whatsoever in the continuing future as a going concern of Panjab. Even a fool with no respect for Guru Ji's hukams should have been able to see what was forthcoming. Yet, the Maharaja apparently didn't.

+1, He did what he wanted to do, without thinking of everyone involved. But what's wrong with having Non-Punjabi Sikhs? I think our greatest problem is limiting the Prachar to Punjab. The worst thing was giving a falling empire to a family that was obsessed with being king, most of his successors only ruled for about a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • total bakwas! U only have to look at her name. The hindu indian media are clearly embarrased at this, so put her down in the headlines as an apni, not the hindu that she was.
    • Don't believe the main teacher is one but others look naamdhari (turban style). Not spoken or interacted with them myself but from various pictures/videos, they commercialise a lot (white hippies cult followings.) Their models are around the double the price now - whether you can tell a difference from others or not is up to you to decide.
    • Apparantly this is a "secret" shabad according to the description of the video and Giani Thakur Singh knew about it.  Did the khalsa use to do this in the past?  
    • Omg thank you for making this topic. It lets me think and write abt alot of thoughts ive had over the years. And best of all this related to a sakhi i heard and it shoeed me the importance of it!! First of all, the encounter with the musical instruments shop. I think the difference is between western and indian mentality. Indians like to negotiate, and have nepotism. Which is when u treat ur relatives/or ur communith better than or differently than other people. We in the west have been taught, negotiating is wrong as it shows one being greedy and cheap. And that nepotism/discrimination is wrong. That we all want to be treated equally. Like i would feel uncomfortable in a muslim shop if the muslims were treated perferentially. Also you asked for a discount cuz the instrument didnt have enough accessories. That i think the shopkeepers assistant should have listened to. But because he is an assistant. Sometimes its not in his hand. His boss will get mad. Also its a sikh shop. All his customers are sikh so he cant give discounts to everybody. One reason, things were better in ur days could be cuz sikhs were a minority and faced hardships. Which brings ppl together.  The fruit shopkeeper, gave u a discount or free oranges. That is his dasvandh not yours. Like if he sells u something cheaper. That means hes gonna get some phal/reward.  Tho when u told the book lady ur story, she gave u a discount. I think when u tell ppl ur story, they r more likely to connect with u and be kind. Instead of just asking for discounts. But still as a western born kid, i find it hard to give discounts unless i see that u cant afford something and u really need it.  Like my dad he wants me to be a real estate agent and work for him. Selling his properties. But i dont want to work for him. He likes to cut corners, and not follow rules. He believes in nepotism, treating ppl differently. And i just cant do that. Living like that makes me stressed and on edge and it doesnt meah with my sikhi. I really admire our previous generation. They were able to make it through tough times by breaking laws and putting sikhi and moral values on hold. Im more of a wimp and cant do that. Like i dont think i could survive in poverty if it means an apartment complex that had smoking smells and suchamta issues. Or fake papers. Or any of the things our parents had to do. And how our parents knew every panjabi family. And invited them over.  Now the sakhi:  A sikh was going someplace and was told he should stop at this one shopkeeper sikhs house on the way. The traveler sikh lets call him makhan singh for clarity arrived at the shopkeepers shop. Lets call him Raam Singh. so Makhan singh introduced himself, raam singh made him confortable in the shop. He watched Raam Singh work.  A rich farmer came in. He asked for flour. Raam singh poured it for him. Handed it over. Farmer paid him and left. Raam singh counted the money. Realized he had too much. Called out to the farmer who was leaving. Farmer said keep it and kept walking. Raam Singh ran after him and paid him back. Makhan singh questioned him and he quoted the pangti about prayia hak. That says one must not take anothers earnings/rights. Then makhan singh decided to buy things for his journey. He asked for butter. Raam singh said 5 rupees. Makhan singh tried to get him to lower the price, but Raam singh would not budge. Makhan singh thought what a greedy, miserly person. And paid the 5 rupees. At end of the day, they went home. And Raam Singh said, please I want to be hospitable. Let me know anything you desire and I will do that seva. Makhan singh thought wat a hypocrit, he couldnt even lower one rupee for a fellow sikh and now he is acting all holy. To embarass him, makhan singh said, i would like to take a bath in warm bucket of ghee/butter. He laughed to himself that, butter is expensive this guy will start making excuses now. To his surprise Raam Singh returned with a full bucket of melted butter. And one of hot water. And handed Makhan singh a towel. Makhan singh was speechless. He said, r u crazy, butter is so expensive and u want me to waste it. Raam singh said anything for my gurus sikh. Makan singh called him out. That in the shop u woukdnt even give me 1 rupee discount. And here u r ready to waste 100 ruppes worth of butter. Raam singh said oh that was business. This is sikhi. Plus i dont take another hak nor relinquisg my hak. Hak means rights/earnings. Also i do my utmost best in my business and in sikhi. Then u were talking to me as the business man,  and i value and work hard for my business and my earnings so even 1 rupee i could not let slide. Now u r talking to.me as a sikh, and i value and work hard for sikhi, and even 100 rupees worth of butter is nothing for sikhi. I never understood this sakhi before. I could not understand Raam singh prespective abt work before. Now i kinda do. Be excellent in all u do. Dont shortchange urself. Respect ur job which has given u the ability to support ur family. And once u have given ur best in one field. You can give the same best/hardworking self to sikhi.  Ofc the names r made up in the sakhi. And i forgot the exact sequence of things and dialogue but the essence is there. I think this is one of bhai veer singhs saakhis or i heard it in katha..  
    • Thats true most ppl do think it only happens to girls. I remember growing up, the girls in my family were never allowed to be at gurudwara alone or attend camps alone. Panjabi parents are smart. They dont trust any religious person. Theyve seen too many fakers in bana. But they do have a blind spot regarding boys and abuse.  Another problem, I could see rising is family abuse. Most kids who are abused are abused by friends of the family. This has come out in Pakistani families and my pakistani friend said thats why her parents never let her go to a friends house.  I think we need to take a multi pronged approach.  #1 should be parents duty. Do not let ur kids hang out at the gurudwara or with babey alone. At least until kids are old enough to report abuse. Like at least 7 years old. There is a story on langar hall blog. About a boy abt 4 years old, his dad used to work at the gurudwara, seva after hours. Kid allowed to run around. Another kid called him to a van. It was a trap. A baba had forced that kid to call him. So the kid was abused and then used by the baba to trick other kids into that van. That kid was too young to he was not able to articulate what was going on,and could only say he didnt want to go to the gurudwara. That ofc didnt go to well with his dad. #2 kids have to be encouraged to tell. They have to be taught that not telling will make the abuse worse and protect abuser. That telling will not get them in trouble. Parents should encourage this. Like my parents used to tell us if anything bad happens, tell us first, we would rather hear it from u, then others. Also u get to tell us ur version before someone else twists it.  #3. We should have camp workshops on this. I remember i used to hate the camp workshops on bullying and domestic violence as a kid, as they werent problems we faced in our community (i thought) and were boring. But this will help everyone know who to go to with problems like this. The workshop can be like SAS snakes in suits but named creepers in bana or something. We can say its kalyug, so u dont know when even a good person will be enticed to do bad. And highlight some of the cases that have happened. Emphasize that telling on these abusers is the right and noble thing to do. As its the only thing that will stop the abuse. Also emphasize that its not only girls targeted but more boys (as thats overlooked) #4 we need to highlight how the corrupt ppl r using bana as a shield. Like how celibacy is being misused by bisexual/gay sikhs. Like how ppl in india who want to come to america become babey just for the visa. Some of these things r obvious like the visa thing, but i feel like western born youth who get into sikhi, start trusting anyone in a bana. And then get disillusioned and start hating all amritdharis. So these things should be mentioned in that camp workshop. And maybe we can even have a place for bisexual/gay sikhs. To teach them kaam is kaam. Heterosexuals also need to control their kaam in aikhis so its no just them, so..Idk this ones complicated. The mormons have tried it. Theres was a TV show now on youtube called  'My husbands not Gay'
×