Internal Atrophy of Sikh Autonomy

[dallysingh101]

5 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Of course we've been shafted. That is obvious to everyone.

This is all a game and we have to understand how it is being played.

There are many players in this game.

It is not straightforward and there are a lot of dimensions to this. 

Blaming the British for everything is not going to bring anything. How much longer can you do that for.

The fact that you are living in the UK is a result of the British Empire. That is the reality. 

Your problem is that you think with only one filter. You read some history books and read some accounts and think you know it all.

You have one viewpoint and try to fit everything you read into that one view.

I don't disagree with what you say but your viewpoint is a very simplistic one.

 

Well, over complicating things and acting like some sort of 'apologist' isn't any sort of solution or strategy.   

[Ranjeet01]

3 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Well, over complicating things and acting like some sort of 'apologist' isn't any sort of solution or strategy.   

I am no apologist. 

But like I said before, it is a much more nuanced game.

Once you understand the game that is being played, you can then formulate a strategy.

The Sikh way is the holistic way to see things from all angles, 

Some of the solutions are simple and straightforward, others are not so much.

[dallysingh101]

2 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I am no apologist. 

But like I said before, it is a much more nuanced game.

Once you understand the game that is being played, you can then formulate a strategy.

The Sikh way is the holistic way to see things from all angles, 

Some of the solutions are simple and straightforward, others are not so much.

As a first step, if we psychologically accept that subjugation is somehow acceptable - we've lost already. 

[Ranjeet01]

21 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

As a first step, if we psychologically accept that subjugation is somehow acceptable - we've lost already. 

In what context are we subjugated?

And how are we accepting this subjugation? 

[dallysingh101]

8 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

In what context are we subjugated?

And how are we accepting this subjugation? 

You know what mate. Do you remember that BBC Television talk that Jagraj Singh (of BoS) was on? You actually sound like the modern incarnation of that embarrassingly fawning, apologist crusty uncle that was on that show. 

Seriously.....

You're asking me how Sikhs were subjugated after the AngloSikh wars!

[Ranjeet01]

3 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

You know what mate. Do you remember that BBC Television talk that Jagraj Singh (of BoS) was on? You actually sound like the modern incarnation of that embarrassingly fawning, apologist crusty uncle that was on that show. 

Seriously.....

You're asking me how Sikhs were subjugated after the AngloSikh wars!

You have not answered my question. 

But let's try to come up with some logical critical assessment:

We lost an empire - yes.

Are we going to get our empire back? - not likely

The vast majority of our population is living in India -yes.

Do we have our self determination - no.

How many Sikhs think they are subjugated in India? 

Out of those Sikhs who think they are subjugated, would they prefer to live in their own Sikh run state or continue being in India?

Would these subjugated people prefer India because they think Sikhs are not capable of running their own state?

Is this thinking that Sikhs not being capable part of the psychological subjugation or is this from realistic practicalities? 

Is living abroad preferable to an Independent Sikh State or living  in India?

If living in the west/abroad provides more rights and higher standard of living than India are these Sikhs still subjugated?

I don't have any answers but these types of questions have never been asked as far as I am aware.

 

 

[dallysingh101]

7 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

You have not answered my question. 

But let's try to come up with some logical critical assessment:

We lost an empire - yes.

Are we going to get our empire back? - not likely

The vast majority of our population is living in India -yes.

Do we have our self determination - no.

How many Sikhs think they are subjugated in India? 

Out of those Sikhs who think they are subjugated, would they prefer to live in their own Sikh run state or continue being in India?

Would these subjugated people prefer India because they think Sikhs are not capable of running their own state?

Is this thinking that Sikhs not being capable part of the psychological subjugation or is this from realistic practicalities? 

Is living abroad preferable to an Independent Sikh State or living  in India?

If living in the west/abroad provides more rights and higher standard of living than India are these Sikhs still subjugated?

I don't have any answers but these types of questions have never been asked as far as I am aware.

 

 

These are good questions and warrant reflection.  I'm unwinding for the weekend but people should ponder them. 

[13Mirch]

23 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I don't think criticising caste is akin to criticising Hindus as a whole since.. It's a social construct and a aberration of the philosophy.. Casteism should be challenged at every opportunity. But by conflating it is not useful.. The book of manu out of which casteism developed did not promote inequality but was used by the elites to provide justification to support structural inequalities 

'Did not promote inequality' and then, 'support structural inequalities?' Self-defeat in one go isn't it?

[Sukhvirk1976]

11 hours ago, 13Mirch said:

'Did not promote inequality' and then, 'support structural inequalities?' Self-defeat in one go isn't it?

I'm sorry if you don't understand the nuance. The text itself doesn't suggest inequality between varnas it just suggests a separation of roles. It was used by the 'brahmanical' elite to provide and legitimatise structural inequalities.. Does that help 

[Sukhvirk1976]

11 hours ago, 13Mirch said:

'Did not promote inequality' and then, 'support structural inequalities?' Self-defeat in one go isn't it?

As you are probably well aware many texts, concepts  are decontextualised and exploited to support power structures.. I.e. How natural selection was used as a justification for racialism. It wasn't at all what darwin was suggesting but it didn't stop colonialists from using it as a tool of oppression