After Jat Sikh kills self upon discovering wife is Dalit, his brother refuses to marry her

[singhbj singh]

http://m.hindustantimes.com/punjab/punjab-after-jat-sikh-kills-self-after-discovering-wife-is-dalit-his-brother-refuses-to-marry-her/story-KOMdFiGGEeHAvq8aYCJz6K_amp.html

[jkvlondon]

scumminess it seems runs strong in that particular family  the elders have some sharam about the actions of their son it seems but are caught on the horns of a dilemma by the other

[Guest Jacfsing2]

If in Punjabi culture people marry their families to each other, why would the brother marry his now sister-in-law, who he would be calling "Bhenji", 

44 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

scumminess it seems runs strong in that particular family  the elders have some sharam about the actions of their son it seems but are caught on the horns of a dilemma by the other

I'm not a Jatt, but if I were to be loyal to the Jatt caste and had Prem for it, why would I be ashamed if someone would be willing to give-up their lives for Jatt Isaat? 

The elders,(not his parents), probably don't have shame, most of them are probably elated and proud of their son's, "sacrifice", for Jatt power. Just look at his even more Jatt Supremacist brother, who's willing to kill himself, if any of his relatives were willing to marry a Non-Jatt.

And we still wonder why the Chamars, (Dalits), created their own religion, making the legendary Bhagat Ravidas Ji into some idol God, (even when he didn't do idol worship). 

[singhbj singh]

Girl marrying again into this family is not right.

The unfortunate incident has hurt psyche of the girl & both families.

If the guy had died due to some other reason than marrying again into the same family would have been fair.

 

[BhForce]

3 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

If in Punjabi culture people marry their families to each other, why would the brother marry his now sister-in-law, who he would be calling "Bhenji", 

He would not call her "Bhenji", if it matters. You surely know that we (Punjabis) call brother's wife "Bhabiji", not "Bhenji", don't you?

Marrying the brother's widow is called Levirate marriage. It is enjoined in the Bible, and practiced in a wide variety of societies. I am neither encouraging it or dissuading anyone from it, merely informing regarding it. The reason it is done is to keep stability, prevent the widow from having to search for a new husband (possibly entailing huge costs), and most importantly, if she has children, they would be raised by the children's chacha, who would already have affection for them, as opposed to a totally unrelated man, who might possibly be sexually attracted to her teenage daughters.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

10 minutes ago, BhForce said:

He would not call her "Bhenji", if it matters. You surely know that we (Punjabis) call brother's wife "Bhabiji", not "Bhenji", don't you?

Marrying the brother's widow is called Levirate marriage. It is enjoined in the Bible, and practiced in a wide variety of societies. I am neither encouraging it or dissuading anyone from it, merely informing regarding it. The reason it is done is to keep stability, prevent the widow from having to search for a new husband (possibly entailing huge costs), and most importantly, if she has children, they would be raised by the children's chacha, who would already have affection for them, as opposed to a totally unrelated man, who might possibly be sexually attracted to her teenage daughters.

Yes, but if one was to strictly follow this idea, it would seem like incest. I don't know which values the family follows, but I don't think a Lerviate marriage should be encouraged. Usually there is something that will be a major problem.

[BhForce]

4 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Yes, but if one was to strictly follow this idea, it would seem like incest. I don't know which values the family follows, but I don't think a Lerviate marriage should be encouraged. Usually there is something that will be a major problem.

I can't delve too deep into any one family's specific situation, and not to encourage forced Levirate marriage, but the one big thing in my mind would be: If I were a teenage girl, I would rather have as my adoptive father my saka chacha (real father's brother), who has played with me since birth and that I'm comfortable with, than some random man that I'm now expected to call Dad.

Btw, when you hear of a "father" molesting his children, if you dig deeper, it's usually a stepfather. Men (very rarely) do molest their own children, but it's rare like women molesting, abusing or killing their children.

Quote

 

In fact, some research has provided evidence of a 5-fold increase in risk of child abuse for step-children compared to biological children.

There is abundant evidence that children living in stepfamilies are more likely to experience sexual abuse. 

 

http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/stepchildren-family-parents-abuse-0409132

There are many stories of children abused by stepfathers, even of women who are either so clueless that they don't know of the abuse, or who actively ignore the abuse.

If there are no children, that might be a factor in the decision.

[Not2Cool2Argue]

1 hour ago, BhForce said:

I can't delve too deep into any one family's specific situation, and not to encourage forced Levirate marriage, but the one big thing in my mind would be: If I were a teenage girl, I would rather have as my adoptive father my saka chacha (real father's brother), who has played with me since birth and that I'm comfortable with, than some random man that I'm now expected to call Dad.

Btw, when you hear of a "father" molesting his children, if you dig deeper, it's usually a stepfather. Men (very rarely) do molest their own children, but it's rare like women molesting, abusing or killing their children.

http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/stepchildren-family-parents-abuse-0409132

There are many stories of children abused by stepfathers, even of women who are either so clueless that they don't know of the abuse, or who actively ignore the abuse.

If there are no children, that might be a factor in the decision.

There actually was a post on this forum by a girl named harmeet. She was abused by her step father. When she told her mom, her mom confronted  the husband and that just made things worse. As it was out in the open now, the husband  just got worse.

But a solution to this problem could be that the teenaged daughters could be married off quickly. People normally got married in their teenaged years anyway back then, so i wonder why this became parchalat.

Also wat is the sikh view on levirate marriage? From wat a poster, dallysingh101, usually said,  this was a horrible practice prevalent in the jatt community.

[BhForce]

26 minutes ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Also wat is the sikh view on levirate marriage? From wat a poster, dallysingh101, usually said,  this was a horrible practice prevalent in the jatt community.

Are you sure you're not confusing Levirate marriage with polyandrous marriage? In the latter, multiple men are married to one woman. There was an article about this phenomenon among a few Jatts with small landholdings. In the former, a man marries his brother's widow. Since she's a widow, her patibrat obligations towards her husband are annihilated with his death, making her free to remarry, as taught by Guru Amar Das ji.

[Not2Cool2Argue]

2 hours ago, BhForce said:

Are you sure you're not confusing Levirate marriage with polyandrous marriage? In the latter, multiple men are married to one woman. There was an article about this phenomenon among a few Jatts with small landholdings. In the former, a man marries his brother's widow. Since she's a widow, her patibrat obligations towards her husband are annihilated with his death, making her free to remarry, as taught by Guru Amar Das ji.

I dont think im confusing the too. Polyandrous like the panduvs marriage  is really rare.

I think the levirate marriage was known as chunni chardoni in jatt culture. The marriage ceremony is just giving the widows chunni to the groom. Also wouldnt it result in polygamy, a man having two wives or more if he marries his brothers widows? Would that not be against sikh practices? 

Also would this not encourage fraticide in the community?