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Tommy Robinson On Manchester Terrorist Attack

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On 2017-6-1 at 7:32 AM, Akalifauj said:

Interesting troll, can you provide evidence Pir Baba Bhudda Shah and Mian Mir were Muslims?

Lol the mind boggles 

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On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Interesting.. Can you please provide a source of where you are getting your information.. My understanding is that her father was killed in battle against Muhamed and his men killed him. But I have never read anything to suggest he raped her? Nor any reference to him murdering her whole family.. In fact I am under the impression that after her father was killed she was married and divorced twice and that Muhamed was her third husband..? 

Moreover what I find particularly interesting is that no where in bani or any writings of sikh scholars Muhamed is spoken of as a rapist.. Why would guru nanak dev ji travel to mecca, (if you believe that sakhi) if he thought Muhamed was a rapist, why would guru arjun Dev Ji invite a follower of a rapist Mian Mir to lay the foundation at Harmandir Sahib, why would guru gobind Singh Ji keep relations with Pir Baba bhuddu shah if he followed such people? 

Guru ji also never refers to Muhammed as a revered person SGGS. Many times raam or krishan or buddha are mentioned but not muhammed. At first i was saddened by this, that guruji never acknowledged the prophet of the 2nd largest religion in the world. I could understand why not Jesus, as Christianity had not reached india yet. But islam was every where. In fact, one of the sakhis say, Jahangir asked Guru Arjan Dev ji to insert praise of Muhammad and be forgiven. Guruji refused. 

Now that all of these terrible stories of muhammed are coming up, im glad he is not revered as a person.

That being said, sikhs should not spread these horrible stories abt muhamned as muslims have 2 versions to every story. And most peaceful ppl believe in the peaceful, kind versions. Isis and extremists are using the violent, terrible ones to radicalize the Muslims. Lets let the peaceful ones believe in the peaceful version. Also these terrible stories are shared by the far right supremacists who want to alienate ppl based on religion. Lets not feed into their agenda

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1 minute ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Guru ji also never refers to Muhammed as a revered person SGGS. Many times raam or krishan or buddha are mentioned but not muhammed. At first i was saddened by this, that guruji never acknowledged the prophet of the 2nd largest religion in the world. I could understand why not Jesus, as Christianity had not reached india yet. But islam was every where. In fact, one of the sakhis say, Jahangir asked Guru Arjan Dev ji to insert praise of Muhammad and be forgiven. Guruji refused. 

Now that all of these terrible stories of muhammed are coming up, im glad he is not revered as a person.

That being said, sikhs should not spread these horrible stories abt muhamned as muslims have 2 versions to every story. And most peaceful ppl believe in the peaceful, kind versions. Isis and extremists are using the violent, terrible ones to radicalize the Muslims. Lets let the peaceful ones believe in the peaceful version. Also these terrible stories are shared by the far right supremacists who want to alienate ppl based on religion. Lets not feed into their agenda

Muhammad is mentioned in the Dasam Granth's banis, Bhai Gurdas Ji also mentions Christianity iirc.

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17 minutes ago, Kira said:

Muhammad is mentioned in the Dasam Granth's banis, Bhai Gurdas Ji also mentions Christianity iirc.

Thats why i made sure to say SGGS :) 

And in dasam granth, he is not portrayed as a person to be revered

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There was a protest in Manchester today a new group called 'unite against hate'.  Headed by Tommy Robinson it isn't to do with football supporter groups.  It a cross section of people,  who spoke about grooming and terrorism.

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On 2017-6-3 at 2:57 PM, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Thats why i made sure to say SGGS :) 

And in dasam granth, he is not portrayed as a person to be revered

do you have some quotes from Dasam Bani?

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13 minutes ago, Hammertime007 said:

There was a protest in Manchester today a new group called 'unite against hate'.  Headed by Tommy Robinson it isn't to do with football supporter groups.  It a cross section of people,  who spoke about grooming and terrorism.

That's all well and good, but I get the impression the likes of Robinson either deliberately or inadvertently miss the point when they get together and begin to protest about these issues. Muslims are doing what they're doing because the social and political culture has allowed them to. Whoever sets the tone of society and life in general needs to be the true object of people's ire. It's like being angry at the ventriloquist's dummy for something offensive uttered by the ventriloquist. It doesn't make sense. 

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6 hours ago, 13Mirch said:

Valid, very valid. Our battle should be on three fronts:

1.) Against Islamic falsification of Sikhi and the Sikh past.

2.) Against the neo-liberals in our own Qaum.

3.) Against exploiters who would have us as front-line fodder in the battle against the Koranic state.

Why has the above in bold reared its head? What's the logic behind it? I'm frankly quite surprised. The Indian subversion is an open secret, but why are the Islamics getting involved? 

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A march against radical islam took place in Manchester yesterday. The media and the press re-branded it as a "Far Right" gathering. 

A white woman telling a black man - who was a witness to the National Front in the 70's and 80's - that he's a Nazi. Lol.

Edited by MisterrSingh
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51 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

A march against radical islam took place in Manchester yesterday. The media and the press re-branded it as a "Far Right" gathering. 

A white woman telling a black man - who was a witness to the National Front in the 70's and 80's - that he's a Nazi. Lol.

 

The so called "anti-fascists" are inherently more intolerant, fascist and racist than those they pretend to oppose. The complete stupidity, incoherence and lack of any kind of skill of the women in this "debate" speaks volumes. If these are the kind of degenerates that eulogise and form the base of support of Jeremy Corbyn, I'm glad Labour didn't win.

In truth, what these communists really oppose is the right of anybody to criticise islam.

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1 minute ago, Ranjeet01 said:

What I find even more interesting is that way the Police Liaison officer goes up to the black guy rather than the white woman.

The black guy was much more measured compared to the hysterical white woman. 

The police it seems have been told who to target.

I do not think from a race or gender point of view, but from political point of view.

Yes, that's exactly my point. Look at those who are doing the protecting and enabling of these so-called victim classes. 

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18 hours ago, Premi5 said:

do you have some quotes from Dasam Bani?

It isn't so much he shouldn't be revered. He's in the same boat as the Devtas like Vishnu,Brahma, Shiva even Durga who's said to be above them as well. All of them are lost in Maya who has enslaved them all. 

 

ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਤਬ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਉਪਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਅਰਬ ਦੇਸ ਕੋ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੨੬॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਏਕ ਪੰਥ ਉਪਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਲਿੰਗ ਬਿਨਾ ਕੀਨੇ ਸਭ ਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਅਪਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਯੋ ॥੨੭॥
 

That's the verse Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote as coming directly from Akaal.

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    • I would like to humbly say to any Ramgarhia Sikhs reading this that you have been blessed to have knowledge of Satguru. After having obtained Gian of the Guru, why would you ever need to pray to or worship lower deities? Bhai Gurdas ji refers to these lower deities in his Kabits as Aaan Dev (other deities): ਕਉਡਾ ਪੈਸਾ ਰੁਪਈਆ ਸੁਨਈਆ ਕੋ ਬਨਜ ਕਰੈ ਰਤਨ ਪਾਰਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਜਉਹਰੀ ਕਹਾਵਈ । Kaudaa Paisaa Roupaeeaa Sounaeeaa Ko Banaj Karai , Ratan Paarakhu Hoi Jauharee Kahaavaee । Just as one starts dealing in shells in the beginning, then in money, gold coins and then becomes evaluator of diamonds and precious stones. He is then called a jeweller.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੧   ਜਉਹਰੀ ਕਹਾਇ ਪੁਨ ਕਉਡਾ ਕੋ ਬਨਜੁ ਕਰੈ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਨ ਮੈ ਪਤਸਿਟਾ ਘਟਾਵਈ । Jauharee Kahaai Poun Kaudaa Ko Banaju Karai , Panch Paravaan Mai Patasitaa Ghataavaee । But after becoming famous as a jeweller, one starts dealing in shells, he loses his respect among the elite people.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੨   ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸੇਵ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਕੋ ਸੇਵਕ ਹੁਇ ਲੋਕ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਬਿਖੈ ਊਚ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਵਈ । Aan Dayv Sayv Gurdayv Ko Sayvak Hui , Lok Paralok Bikhai Ooch Padu Paavaee । Similarly, if a follower of some god comes into the service of True Guru, he acquires high status in this and the world beyond.  ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੩   ਛਾਡਿ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੇਵ ਆਨ ਦੇਵ ਸੇਵਕ ਹੁਇ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਜਨਮੁ ਕਪੂਤ ਹੁਇ ਹਸਾਵਈ ॥੪੭੯॥ Chhaadi Gurdayv Sayv Aan Dayv Sayvak Hui , Nihadhal Janamu Kapoot Hui Hasaavaee ॥479॥ But if someone leaves the service of the True Guru, and becomes a follower of some other god, then he wastes away his human life and he is laughed at by others being known as a bad son.  (479) ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੪੭੯ ਪੰ. ੪ It is one thing for people who are just starting on the path of spirituality to worship various devtas. But when you, by the Grace of the Guru, come to know about Satguru, you would never go back. All of us have been blessed to have born in the house of Guru Nanak ji. We have no need to devolve to a lower state.
    • More on spiritual adultery. This is from Vaar Suhi by Guru Amar Dass ji, translation by the Nirmalas, a traditional Sikh order in the Faridkot Teeka: ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ 
      ਵਾਰ ਸੂਹੀ ਕੀ ਸਲੋਕਾ ਨਾਲਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ 
      ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੇ ਜੀਵ ਕਾ ਵਿਛੋੜੇ ਅਰੁ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਵਤੇ ਹੂਏ ਵਾਰ ਅੁਚਾਰਨ 
      ਕਰਤੇ ਹੈਣ॥ 
      ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮ ੩ ॥ 
      ਸੂਹੈ ਵੇਸਿ ਦੋਹਾਗਂੀ ਪਰ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
      ਛੁਟੜ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਮੇਸਰ ਸੇ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਹੈਣ ਸੂਹੇ ਵੇਸ ਵਿਸੋਣ ਮੇਣ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰਕੇ 
      (ਪਰੁ ਪਿਰ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ) ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਤੋਣ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਨੇਣ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਪਿਰੁ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਮੋਹੀ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥ 
      (ਪਿਰੁ) ਪਤੀ ਜੋ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਸੋ (ਘਰਿ) ਅਪਨੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਮੈਣ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਦੂਜੇ ਭਾਵ ਮੈਣ 
      ਬੁਧੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਮਿਠਾ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਖਾਇਆ ਬਹੁ ਸਾਦਹੁ ਵਧਿਆ ਰੋਗੁ ॥ 
      (ਮਿਠਾ) ਭਾਵ ਸੁਖ ਰੂਪ ਕਰਕੈ ਬਿਸੋਣ ਕੋ ਭੋਗਾ ਥਾ ਬਿਸੇ ਰਸੋਣ ਸੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਰੋਗੁ ਵਧ 
      ਗਿਆ॥ 
      ਸੁਧੁ ਭਤਾਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਲਗਾ ਜਾਇ ਵਿਜੋਗੁ ॥ 
      ਸੁਧ ਭਰਤਾ ਜੋ ਹਰੀ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਫਿਰ ਜਨਮ ਕਰ ਵਿਛੋੜਾ ਹੀ ਲਾਗ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁ ਪਲਟਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੀਗਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਜੋ ਗੁਰੋਣ ਕੇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਤਿਸਨੇ ਸੂਹਾ ਵੇਸ ਅੁਤਾਰ ਕੇ ਮਜੀਠਾ ਵੇਸੁ ਬਦਲਿਆ ਹੈ 
      ਭਾਵ ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰੀ ਹੈ ਔ ਸਾਧਨ ਰੂਪ ਸਿੰਗਾਰੁ (ਸਾਜਿ) ਬਨਾ ਕਰ ਹਰੀ ਮੈਣ ਰਾਤੀ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਸਹਜਿ ਸਚੁ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਾ ਅੁਰ ਧਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਹਰੀ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੋ ਰਿਦੇ ਮੈਣ ਧਾਰ ਕੇ ਸੁਖ ਰੂਪੁ ਪਾਰੇ ਕੇ ਆਨੰਦ ਕੋ ਸੁਭਾਵਕ ਹੀ ਭੋਗਾ 
      ਹੈ॥ 
      ਆਗਿਆਕਾਰੀ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਆਪਿ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਸੋ ਆਗਾਕਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਵਹੁ ਆਪ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ ਮੇਲ ਲਈ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਤੇ ਓਹੁ ਸਦਾ 
      ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਨਾਨਕ ਪਿਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਨਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ 
      ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਹਤੇ ਹੈਣ ਜਿਸਨੇ ਹਰੀ ਰੂਪ ਸਜ਼ਚਾ ਭਰਤਾ ਪਾਯਾ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਜੀਵ ਰੂਪ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ 
      ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥੧॥    Like a woman separated from her husband goes to ravish (be ravished by) other men, the man who turns away from Parmesar goes to serve devis and devtas. She has forsaken the Husband (Waheguru) in her heart and has been ensnared with duja bhav. She thinks it to be sweet, and eats it with relish, increasing the disease. She has abandoned the pure Husband and suffers separation. The one who is faithful to the Guru does devotional worship of Waheguru and embellishes herself being in God. Enshrining the name of Waheguru in her heart she obtains bliss. Obedient, she is always in marital bliss and the Creator Himself has allowed her to meet Him. Guru Nanak Dev ji says that whoever has found the true Husband, she is the true holder of marital bliss.  
    • Fair enough. While I'm in agreement that idol worship is not part of Sikhi, I believe the tuks you have posted have been posted out of context here. The bani above is referring to those whose spritual mode of worship is only idol worship. Those who think that Parmeshwar resides only in the idol. Those who have no other forms of worship and still think they are saved by doing puja of a pathar/image. That's not really what's happening in the video (I don't think so anyway). Do bear in mind I'm not completely justifying what they're doing. I would need to know more details before I could personally comment what side of the fence this lands on. For example, if this is a regular thing or only done on a certain day i.e. Vishwakarma Day etc, what they believe about Vishwakarma and what he represents for them, and what their intentions are as well as what their sharda and bhaavna is, in performing this Aarti? And of course their maksad. As I always say, things are rarely black and white.  
    • Brother, the reason we (or at least, some Sikhs) do Aarti of Guru Sahib is because we worship Guru Sahib. The reason it's a "big deal" is because it's spiritual adultery. Even if it were accepted that you can do aarti of a saint or elder, they are not doing that. They are not doing Aarti of Lord Vishwakarma, but rather of a picture of Vishwakarma, which sets them up for the spiritual transgression of idol worship. Guru Nanak Dev ji on idol worship: ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Salok Mehalaa 1 || ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੦  ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods. ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ ॥ You wash your stone gods and worship them. ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ ॥ You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.   ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ ॥ Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.   ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ ॥ Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat. ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished. ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਨ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ ॥ Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying. ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥ The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1|| ਸਾਰੰਗ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੯) ਸ. (੧) ੧:੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨ 
      Raag Sarang Guru Nanak Dev   Guru Arjan Dev ji in Raag Bharo: ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Mehala 5 || ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਕਹਤੇ ਦੇਵ ॥ Those who call a stone their god ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਵ ॥ Their service is useless. ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਂਈ ਪਾਇ ॥ Those who fall at the feet of a stone god ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਘਾਲ ਅਜਾਂਈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ - their work is wasted in vain. ||1||   The people who do this (idol worship) will sink in the worldly ocean: ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਹਨੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ Kabeer, someone sets up a stone idol and all the world worships it as the Lord. ਇਸ ਭਰਵਾਸੇ ਜੋ ਰਹੇ ਬੂਡੇ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਾਰ ॥੧੩੬॥ Those who hold to this belief will be drowned in the river of darkness. ||136|| ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੩੬):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੧ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
      Salok Bhagat Kabir    
    • Like I said maybe they shouldn't have been doing Aarti, not in the Gurdwara anyway. But the picture in itself shouldn't be a problem. Mahapurkhs have been known to keep pictures of Devi Devte, they weren't allergic to imagery, especially imagery you could say that makes up "Dharam" as a whole. Maybe not the picture shown in the video, but such imagery was commonplace and is part of our heritage. As is evident from the small selection of pictures I posted. The level of Hinduphobia amongst our people borders on idiocy.
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