AjeetSinghPunjabi

Feeki chaa or meethi chaa ? .. The point to which we abuse langar system

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As a sewadar was distributing chaai to bibis who had come down in langar hall after doing sukhmani sahib paath , some bibis asked "feeki chaa OR is it meethi chaa" ?

it was shocking . It made me feel i am sitting in restaurant . Why can't we just accept what is served in langar as "prasad" and accept it .

Why so much of nakhre ? also there are some bibis who don't do anything , but only come down in the end to have tasty snacks someone from the sangat sponsored for that day .

I have seen both sikhs and non-sikhs abuse the langar system in sikhism. A hindu guy uploaded a pic with head covered . People commenting "You just went to eat langar?" to which the guy replied "What else do we go for"

And in other pic he uploaded a video showing various tasty eatables of modern cuisine served in langar and captioned "Gurudwara ho toh aisa" 

I get it gurudwara provides food to everyone, but do we have to abuse the system ?

 

The question 20 odd bibis asked him was not whether "Are we running langar right or wrong" . It was "Feeki chaa or is it meethi chaa" 

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5 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

As a sewadar was distributing chaai to bibis who had come down in langar hall after doing sukhmani sahib paath , some bibis asked "feeki chaa OR is it meethi chaa" ?

it was shocking . It made me feel i am sitting in restaurant . Why can't we just accept what is served in langar as "prasad" and accept it .

Why so much of nakhre ? also there are some bibis who don't do anything , but only come down in the end to have tasty snacks someone from the sangat sponsored for that day .

I have seen both sikhs and non-sikhs abuse the langar system in sikhism. A hindu guy uploaded a pic with head covered . People commenting "You just went to eat langar?" to which the guy replied "What else do we go for"

And in other pic he uploaded a video showing various tasty eatables of modern cuisine served in langar and captioned "Gurudwara ho toh aisa" 

I get it gurudwara provides food to everyone, but do we have to abuse the system ?

 

The question 20 odd bibis asked him was not whether "Are we running langar right or wrong" . It was "Feeki chaa or is it meethi chaa" 

You are absolutely correct, the Langar system has been abused.

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5 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

As a sewadar was distributing chaai to bibis who had come down in langar hall after doing sukhmani sahib paath , some bibis asked "feeki chaa OR is it meethi chaa" ?

it was shocking . It made me feel i am sitting in restaurant . Why can't we just accept what is served in langar as "prasad" and accept it .

Why so much of nakhre ? also there are some bibis who don't do anything , but only come down in the end to have tasty snacks someone from the sangat sponsored for that day .

I have seen both sikhs and non-sikhs abuse the langar system in sikhism. A hindu guy uploaded a pic with head covered . People commenting "You just went to eat langar?" to which the guy replied "What else do we go for"

And in other pic he uploaded a video showing various tasty eatables of modern cuisine served in langar and captioned "Gurudwara ho toh aisa" 

I get it gurudwara provides food to everyone, but do we have to abuse the system ?

 

The question 20 odd bibis asked him was not whether "Are we running langar right or wrong" . It was "Feeki chaa or is it meethi chaa" 

There currently aren't that many alternatives. If you don't have langar it's just a therath and not a Gurdwara. If you don't allow Non-Sikhs, it's a Sikh house, not a Gurdwara. Maybe some people have medical issues which they need to know the ingredients of something, allergies or reactions. Each case is case-by-case, if there comes at time when I have some problem, I would want to know what the ingredients are as well.

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langar system needs reform as does alot of aspects of sikh society for too long non-sikh forces and ideologies have made Sikhi out to be a welfare system for all communities when it should only cater for believers in the sikh faith, those who desperately need help and those who want to convert to sikhi.

Allowing any tom, dom and harry to treat Sikh places of worship like a restaurant or guesthouse/hotel is showing how far we have fallen as a proud community for others to abuse our hospitality either through minor contemptible remarks or robberies by non-sikhs who scouted out the premises and seen Sikhs are weak and coward cucks now so they wont stop them robbing and disrespecting guru's house.

Sikhs need to return to their martial roots that is where confidence to deal firmly with these issues will come from.

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Quote

 

some bibis asked "feeki chaa OR is it meethi chaa" ?

it was shocking . It made me feel i am sitting in restaurant . Why can't we just accept what is served in langar as "prasad" and accept it .

 

I think people in general (and maybe especially apnay) limiting sugar intake is important as hell these days - even more so for apnay who seem to have a diabetes epidemic going on. 

What's wrong with a policy of making only feeki cha and letting people put in sugar as they desire? 

Edited by dallysingh101
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2 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

As a sewadar was distributing chaai to bibis who had come down in langar hall after doing sukhmani sahib paath , some bibis asked "feeki chaa OR is it meethi chaa" ?

it was shocking . It made me feel i am sitting in restaurant . Why can't we just accept what is served in langar as "prasad" and accept it .

It may be shocking to you but to those who suffer from type 2 Diabetes it is vitally important and can sometimes be the difference between normality and going into diabetic shock.

The system of langar is a beautiful one but from a health perspective it need's a huge change, i go to the Gurdwara every day before work but i only have parshad once or twice a week because i have cholesterol problems, i tend to refrain from anything fried when i have langar, does that make me a bad person?

2 hours ago, genie said:

langar system needs reform as does alot of aspects of sikh society for too long non-sikh forces and ideologies have made Sikhi out to be a welfare system for all communities when it should only cater for believers in the sikh faith, those who desperately need help and those who want to convert to sikhi.

Allowing any tom, dom and harry to treat Sikh places of worship like a restaurant or guesthouse/hotel is showing how far we have fallen as a proud community for others to abuse our hospitality either through minor contemptible remarks or robberies by non-sikhs who scouted out the premises and seen Sikhs are weak and coward cucks now so they wont stop them robbing and disrespecting guru's house.

It does need reform, yes, but not to the point where we are closing our doors to everyone, the whole principle of langar is the food is served to all without distinction of faith, religion or background, for free, the issue of people coming in to a Gurdwara to scout it out is a security one and needs to be dealt with desperately, if we turn away anyone who looks remotely "shifty" then we are going against the principles of out religion all together.

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I see the same stupidity from Punjabi youth at university with 'Langar on campus' days.

Rather than feed the poor on the streets, they feed those who are not poor, who are already well-off and who can afford to eat. What is the point? These people do see it as 'free food' and have said so themselves, so they are bound to take what they can get. None of these people really understand the concept of 'Vand Chakko'. The same Punjabis love to preach 'Langar' yet conveniently forget the more important principle - 'Naam Japo', most likely because they do not meditate or pray to Waheguru themselves.

I understand they are trying to raise awareness of Sikhi but if people want to learn about it then they can research the internet as they do with anything else today. If they want to 'experience' Langar they can visit a Gurduara. I believe their attitudes and behaviours would be very different in a religious place. That should tell you something about the minds of many Westerners today.

These people are also asked to cover their heads and remove their shoes before sitting. Why? Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is not present. Tying a ramaal and sitting barefoot outside a Gurduara for 'free food' are blind rituals, in my eyes.

...

I have used the word Punjabis instead of Sikh because most Punjabis are not Sikh, however they are always more than happy and eager to put on an act and pretend to be a Sikh when it suits them to please the goreh/kaleh/wider communities, even though they do not get anything back from it, apart from the 'Sikhs are hardworking people, pillars of the community, upstanding citizens etc.' comments from MP's at the end of it all. Sexual grooming still continues and the Punjab remains close to ruin. What do the British do about that? Nothing. Why? Fear of racism and importance of relations with India for trade deals.

The same rhetoric is said to Muslims when they decide to do something positive. The difference is that more Muslims are far less gullible and more steadfast in their faith. I do not like or trust many of them but at least they do not bow down to the goreh with the mentality of slaves. Wake up, Punjabis and put the community first.

Many of you are just liberals with little love for Sikhi.

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3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think people in general (and maybe especially apnay) limiting sugar intake is important as hell these days - even more so for apnay who seem to have a diabetes epidemic going on. 

What's wrong with a policy of making only feeki cha and letting people put in sugar as they desire? 

Agree. 

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1 hour ago, kcmidlands said:

 

It may be shocking to you but to those who suffer from type 2 Diabetes it is vitally important and can sometimes be the difference between normality and going into diabetic shock.

The system of langar is a beautiful one but from a health perspective it need's a huge change, i go to the Gurdwara every day before work but i only have parshad once or twice a week because i have cholesterol problems, i tend to refrain from anything fried when i have langar, does that make me a bad person?

It does need reform, yes, but not to the point where we are closing our doors to everyone, the whole principle of langar is the food is served to all without distinction of faith, religion or background, for free, the issue of people coming in to a Gurdwara to scout it out is a security one and needs to be dealt with desperately, if we turn away anyone who looks remotely "shifty" then we are going against the principles of out religion all together.

Agree. 

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point of langar was to keep body and soul together i.e. provide necessary nourishment for the traveller or poor. Now it is like a restaurant where people even talk about langar as if they are giving a review for a culinary magazine . Most dharamshala would just provide dhal and roti , occasionally kheer on gurpurabs . 

The families put on langars like they compete outside with their cars and homes , there is no sewa bhavna, otherwise they would actually make sure their langar served the needy not their well-fed rishtedaars. 

I reckon there should be set langar - one dhal , one sabji , roti , plain rice for gluten free people, no nuts/seeds used , no outside mithaai/sweets . Kheer on gurpurabs .... we do not need pakorey/samosey/chips ...if people want that food the can go to a restaurant or make at home . We cannot serve that to gur ki sangat as Guru Nanak Dev ji has instructed us not eat that which will cause us pain and increase vikars .

Make phikka cha for everyone and reply sweetly 'bibi ji je mitta chahida Darbar vich gurbani di mittas leh levo'

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8 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

point of langar was to keep body and soul together i.e. provide necessary nourishment for the traveller or poor. Now it is like a restaurant where people even talk about langar as if they are giving a review for a culinary magazine . Most dharamshala would just provide dhal and roti , occasionally kheer on gurpurabs . 

The families put on langars like they compete outside with their cars and homes , there is no sewa bhavna, otherwise they would actually make sure their langar served the needy not their well-fed rishtedaars. 

I reckon there should be set langar - one dhal , one sabji , roti , plain rice for gluten free people, no nuts/seeds used , no outside mithaai/sweets . Kheer on gurpurabs .... we do not need pakorey/samosey/chips ...if people want that food the can go to a restaurant or make at home . We cannot serve that to gur ki sangat as Guru Nanak Dev ji has instructed us not eat that which will cause us pain and increase vikars .

Make phikka cha for everyone and reply sweetly 'bibi ji je mitta chahida Darbar vich gurbani di mittas leh levo'

Agree. Langar should be simple and so that everybody can have it, including those with health conditions, allergies and children. 

" I reckon there should be set langar - one dhal , one sabji , roti , plain rice for gluten free people, no nuts/seeds used , no outside mithaai/sweets . Kheer on gurpurabs .... we do not need pakorey/samosey/chips ...if people want that food the can go to a restaurant or make at home ."

" Make phikka cha for everyone and reply sweetly 'bibi ji je mitta chahida Darbar vich gurbani di mittas leh levo'"

Above quoted, I agree with penji. This is how it should be, it's not a restaurant. And a lot get wasted too, because it's not basic and simple and has way too many chillis, even some of my Punjab born relative say it's way too hot. 

Im also getting fed up of people posting langar pics on Facebook, showing their thaals and then people commenting like they are doing restaurant reviews. Like come on, what need is there to put those pics on. If they go to the Gurdwara, is that all they go for? No mention of the Gurbani, or which shabad was playing, but the only thing they decide to put on is their thaal. How immature. 

Edited by simran345
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8 minutes ago, simran345 said:

Agree. Langar should be simple and so that everybody can have it, including those with health conditions, allergies and children. 

" I reckon there should be set langar - one dhal , one sabji , roti , plain rice for gluten free people, no nuts/seeds used , no outside mithaai/sweets . Kheer on gurpurabs .... we do not need pakorey/samosey/chips ...if people want that food the can go to a restaurant or make at home ."

" Make phikka cha for everyone and reply sweetly 'bibi ji je mitta chahida Darbar vich gurbani di mittas leh levo'"

Above quoted, I agree with penji. This is how it should be, it's not a restaurant. And a lot get wasted too, because it's not basic and simple and has way too many chillis, even some of my Punjab born relative say it's way too hot. 

Im also getting fed up of people posting langar pics on Facebook, showing their thaals and then people commenting like they are doing restaurant reviews. Like come on, what need is there to put those pics on. If they go to the Gurdwara, is that all they go for? No mention of the Gurbani, or which shabad was playing, but the only thing they decide to put on is their thaal. How immature. 

The problem is the proliferation of Anand Karaj's, Akhand Paths, Sukhmani Sahib programs in Gurdwaras.

This enables to people to indulge in all of this.

What gets up my nose is when people hire outside caterers after milni and I am seeing these continental breakfasts with croissants and choc au pains. What's that all about?

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55 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The problem is the proliferation of Anand Karaj's, Akhand Paths, Sukhmani Sahib programs in Gurdwaras.

This enables to people to indulge in all of this.

What gets up my nose is when people hire outside caterers after milni and I am seeing these continental breakfasts with croissants and choc au pains. What's that all about?

Continental breakfasts with croissants and choc au pains, really? 😏  I've never been to a wedding that's had that menu. Where did they think they were, a hotel ? Was it down south, London area? I'm surprised they didn't add toast/marmalade to it.  

The most luxurious item I've seen is parothe for the milni tea, otherwise it's normally samoseh and pakorey. 

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17 minutes ago, simran345 said:

Continental breakfasts with croissants and choc au pains, really? 😏  I've never been to a wedding that's had that menu. Where did they think they were, a hotel ? Was it down south, London area? I'm surprised they didn't add toast/marmalade to it.  

The most luxurious item I've seen is parothe for the milni tea, otherwise it's normally samoseh and pakorey. 

It was down South!  I guess the bride was too posh for prontheh!

If she did have aloo waleh prontheh it would have been called "crepe pomme de terre!"

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10 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

It was down South!  I guess the bride was too posh for prontheh!

If she did have aloo waleh prontheh it would have been called "crepe pomme de terre!"

Yeah I thought it was. Southerners tend to do the extras. 

Lol @ crepe pomme de terre. But that reminds me of the parothe, there were those little packets of butter too. It was nice, but still it's not exactly edible for most, as they OTT on all the spices and ingredients in them. Why can't they just keep them simple, I guess it's so that they don't run out because everyone will be having seconds if it was simple. 

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6 hours ago, genie said:

langar system needs reform as does alot of aspects of sikh society for too long non-sikh forces and ideologies have made Sikhi out to be a welfare system for all communities when it should only cater for believers in the sikh faith, those who desperately need help and those who want to convert to sikhi.

Yes, some people do have questions as to whether we're too accepting and soft in regards to that. For example, if you've ever had occasion to stay overnight at Kesgarh Sahib at Anandpur Sahib, you might have had the misfortune to find paan stains in your room. Now, why, you ask would Sikhs be using paan? Well, they wouldn't. 

But Anandpur Sahib is very close to Naina Devi, and many HIndus stay at the serai on the way to their trip to Naina Devi.

There has already been some reform in this regard: Most gurdwaras will only accept families in serais, and will not give a room to singles. You can see this on the online booking for serais at Amritsar.

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6 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

A hindu guy uploaded a pic with head covered . People commenting "You just went to eat langar?" to which the guy replied "What else do we go for"

 

6 hours ago, genie said:

Allowing any tom, dom and harry to treat Sikh places of worship like a restaurant or guesthouse/hotel is showing how far we have fallen as a proud community for others to abuse our hospitality either through minor contemptible remarks

Although the reason that we Sikhs don't discriminate in langar is because we see God in all, both of you are right that there are legitimate questions in regard to that. The way that some Hindus think that Sikhs are just a free food service is very infuriating.

Guru Amar Das ji's idea of langar was "Pehle pangat, pache sangat" (First langar, and then congregation). But some (many/most?) Hindus these days just come eat the free food, never sit in sangat to listen to Guru's philosophy, remain mired in their idol-worshiping muck, and to add insult to injury, they have the gall to berate us for supposed faults in the food or service.

Do you think that we should refuse non-Sikhs at the door? Or maybe institute a policy of "Pehle sangat, piche pangat"?

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4 hours ago, kcmidlands said:

The system of langar is a beautiful one but from a health perspective it need's a huge change, 

Is it langar or is it us not getting any physical exercise or taking too large portions? (I agree that gurdwara sevadars need to respect people that say they want small portions. I've seen many times where you tell the sevadar you want just a little, and instead of giving you half a portion, they'll give 2x the portion a normal person would need. If you hadn't said anything, they'd normally give you 3x the portion.)

4 hours ago, kcmidlands said:

i go to the Gurdwara every day before work but i only have parshad once or twice a week because i have cholesterol problems, i tend to refrain from anything fried when i have langar, does that make me a bad person?

I don't think it makes you a bad person to refrain from fried foods. I'm sorry to hear you have cholesterol problems. Regardless, there's no reason to not have Parshad simply because of cholesterol. Elderly people can simply request to have "kinka parshad". Just say "kinka" to the sevadar, and make a pinching movement with your fingers. If he still gives you too much, next time explain your situation to him, and tell him to give you no more than a pea-sized amount of Parshad. You don't have to make the choice of getting a handful of Parshad, or going without.

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5 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

point of langar was to keep body and soul together i.e. provide necessary nourishment for the traveller or poor. Now it is like a restaurant where people even talk about langar as if they are giving a review for a culinary magazine . Most dharamshala would just provide dhal and roti

Wow.. Is that really the point of Guru ka langar? Your suggesting the point of sitting down and breaking bread or serving someone, rejecting caste boundaries didn't have anything to do with it? 

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6 hours ago, BhForce said:

Is it langar or is it us not getting any physical exercise or taking too large portions? (I agree that gurdwara sevadars need to respect people that say they want small portions. I've seen many times where you tell the sevadar you want just a little, and instead of giving you half a portion, they'll give 2x the portion a normal person would need. If you hadn't said anything, they'd normally give you 3x the portion.)

I think it is due to exercise but also the change in diet, in the last 20/30 years food production has changed a lot, my point being that it's not just portion size but also how the ingredients are grown, i'm glad some Gurdwara's are going organic (Amritsar included) but we have a long way to go yet.

6 hours ago, BhForce said:

I don't think it makes you a bad person to refrain from fried foods. I'm sorry to hear you have cholesterol problems. Regardless, there's no reason to not have Parshad simply because of cholesterol. Elderly people can simply request to have "kinka parshad". Just say "kinka" to the sevadar, and make a pinching movement with your fingers. If he still gives you too much, next time explain your situation to him, and tell him to give you no more than a pea-sized amount of Parshad. You don't have to make the choice of getting a handful of Parshad, or going without.

I've tried the "kinka parshad" route but it's down to the sevadar on duty, i don't like not having parshad every time i go but it's down to health issues now and how certain ingredients react with my body but that's a personal choice i've been forced to make.

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11 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

point of langar was to keep body and soul together i.e. provide necessary nourishment for the traveller or poor.

6 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Wow.. Is that really the point of Guru ka langar? Your suggesting the point of sitting down and breaking bread or serving someone, rejecting caste boundaries didn't have anything to do with it? 

 

Wow.. I didn't think that I'd be saying this, but I think I agree with Sukhvirk. I believe that it is true that part of the motivation for langar was breaking barriers. Some people say that only poor people should eat in langar, but then how would the rich man learn humility and brotherhood with the poor man? It is said that when Nasser (leader of Egypt) visited the langar at Amritsar, he was amazed at the fact of rich and poor all eating on the floor, and he gave all his money in his wallet as an offering.

It doesn't have the same effect when langar is only for poor people. In fact, I think one certain way to kill off the institution of langar would be to announce that only poor people will be able to eat langar henceforth.

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8 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Wow.. Is that really the point of Guru ka langar? Your suggesting the point of sitting down and breaking bread or serving someone, rejecting caste boundaries didn't have anything to do with it? 

in the old days people had to travel for days to get to dharamshaley so what I said was the primary functions , remember gurdwarey also put people up for free too . I am not discounting  sewa or equality aspects but the meaning of the food .

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10 hours ago, BhForce said:

 

Although the reason that we Sikhs don't discriminate in langar is because we see God in all, both of you are right that there are legitimate questions in regard to that. The way that some Hindus think that Sikhs are just a free food service is very infuriating.

Guru Amar Das ji's idea of langar was "Pehle pangat, pache sangat" (First langar, and then congregation). But some (many/most?) Hindus these days just come eat the free food, never sit in sangat to listen to Guru's philosophy, remain mired in their idol-worshiping muck, and to add insult to injury, they have the gall to berate us for supposed faults in the food or service.

Do you think that we should refuse non-Sikhs at the door? Or maybe institute a policy of "Pehle sangat, piche pangat"?

maybe encourage pangat visiters to do active sewa in the pangat at least so it's not totally onesided and there is a chance for them to develop some nimrata. 

I watched a TV program recently where an Italian chef travelled to Amritsar and wanted to see Darbar Sahib guess who he was shown around by , yep the Hindus(middle class) when he asked them why do you go if you don't believe in sikhism they kind of of ehmmed and ahhed then said we are not stopped by anyone as it is open to everyone . Granted they did some langar sewa (peeling potatoes and onions) but they could not say anything apart from when langar time opens, and the times . So he went and asked sewadars more details about how they work out spices and salt without tasting etc. He was blown away by the quantities , the cleanliness, the efficiency , the taste , the sewa, the feeling of community which was zero commented on by his friends. So much so he wanted to buy supplies to donate, he bought a sack of rice and surprise surprise when he reached the langar storehouse there was one singh doing the receipts and a pandit sitting there doing jack (my husband was kind of surprised too)  . what is going on are we so pushed back that hindus can traipse in and act like they own the joint ?

 

Edited by jkvlondon
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The choice is present, no one is forcing them to drink tea and we do not want to go down the road of reading labels, calorie counting and so on.  What next ban kheer to satisfy the health conscious or those with health conditions or alter the equal ingredients in Degh, do we think people questioned Mata Khivi when she distributed Kheer as per Balwand?? The correct terms I believe for small quantities of Degh is 'savaia' and for more 'gehra gapha'.

  

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4 hours ago, InderjitS said:

The choice is present, no one is forcing them to drink tea and we do not want to go down the road of reading labels, calorie counting and so on.  What next ban kheer to satisfy the health conscious or those with health conditions or alter the equal ingredients in Degh, do we think people questioned Mata Khivi when she distributed Kheer as per Balwand?? The correct terms I believe for small quantities of Degh is 'savaia' and for more 'gehra gapha'.

  

given that we are supposed to make people comfortable physically enough to sit and concentrate on kirtan and bhagti not so sleepy they fall asleep , the rich foods like fried stuff, pickles (which is kind of insulting the prashad aspect of langar, we don't put sweeties and sauces on karah ). Kheer is a tradition that is long-standing and not threatening to people with gluten problems . 
We should be aware of allergies and try to make food allergen free or offer alternatives for those in need (like the plain rice I suggested) . The gratitude is gone and that is the main problem , too much choice so , that much nakarey, keep it simple , do it well and healthy and it's a win win ...

Another problem to consider:

Disposing of left over langar is usually a hassle that most gurdwarey don't want to deal with so throw it into the garbage disposal unit ... and that used frying oil is another bigger problem to get rid of responsibly . Can't pour it into the sewage system as it will cause fatbergs .

Edited by jkvlondon
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