Singh1989

Meat during 2nd Guru Ji???

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Am curious, about a Sakhi I heard a few times at Gurdwara/ radios. When Guru Amar Das Ji went to visit Guru Angad Dev Ji for the first time, Baba Amar Ji thought "I will consider Guru Angad a true Guru if he knows am a vegetarian."

In langar they sat close to each other and the second Guru said, to the sevadar serving food "Bhai Ji. Serve Baba Amar Das vegetarian items only," then Baba Amar Das was convinced this IS the real deal, the true Guru Sahib.

QUESTION!!! Doesn't this mean meat was being served in langar up to Guru Angad Dev Ji's Guruship?

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This sakhi doesn't really add-up if you ask me. Many great Gursikh writers did mention this exact incident, Bhai Vir Singh, Bhai Satbir Singh, and Mehima Prakash, (original). Why this story doesn't add-up is because when Amar Das, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Amar Das Ji), went to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji he would've been in extreme depression, due to having no Guru and he was desperate to find one, when you are trying to find the truth, meat is the least of your worries. So even if meat was served, there would've been no reason for Guru Sahib to have accommodated a person, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Amar Das Ji is beyond human, but for mortal explanations I had to use that word). Once when a Muslim came to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Hargobind Ji the established rule was no one was allowed to wear a face covering, so she had to take it off.

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1 hour ago, Singh1989 said:

In langar they sat close to each other and the second Guru said, to the sevadar serving food "Bhai Ji. Serve Baba Amar Das vegetarian items only," then Baba Amar Das was convinced this IS the real deal, the true Guru Sahib.

QUESTION!!! Doesn't this mean meat was being served in langar up to Guru Angad Dev Ji's Guruship?

There are two narratives around the issue of meat in Sikhism: one is that meat is not allowed, period. This is what is preached to the Sangat by, for lack of a better term, Sants and other groups who accept the practice of Naam Simran. The other is that jhatka meat prepared by those in Nihang-Khalsa-shasterdhari maryada is allowed. But such a maryada was not in place before, at the earliest, the 6th Guru Sahib.

As for the practical effects of this sakhi on you, those around you, or your local Gurdwara, I wouldn't worry about it, since either if you're living abroad or in our homeland, 99% of Sikhs are not following Nihang Khalsa shasterdhari maryada.

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When Sikhs lived in jungles and deserts for decades in the 18th century until sikhs had Khalsa raj under Maharaja Ranjit Singh, you think they would've got bread butter , daal sabji ? 

Or what is more likely ? goat 

 

also non-vegetarian men tend to be stronger in musculature than vegetarian men who're mostly skinny. 

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5 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

also non-vegetarian men tend to be stronger in musculature than vegetarian men who're mostly skinny. 

I know what you are saying but genetics also seems to play a part. I know vegetarian types who are stocky (I don't know if it is because they ate meat previously?), and I've met plenty of meat eaters who are bean pole skinny, so...

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5 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

When Sikhs lived in jungles and deserts for decades in the 18th century until sikhs had Khalsa raj under Maharaja Ranjit Singh, you think they would've got bread butter , daal sabji ? 

Or what is more likely ? goat 

 

also non-vegetarian men tend to be stronger in musculature than vegetarian men who're mostly skinny. 

The poster asked about a sakhi about Guru Amar Das ji. Why are you bringing up jungles and dharam yudhs?

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5 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

also non-vegetarian men tend to be stronger in musculature than vegetarian men who're mostly skinny. 

This is true to an extent; however, someone who's carnivorous and doesn't bother to build muscle will be fat, and those who eat only vegetables or even vegans will not build muscle as fast, (but it's more effective than not working out and eating meat). That out of the way we should do whatever we can to preserve Jhatka wherever Sikhs are, or else this Anti-meat groups will be causing our own political collapse, when you compare it to Halal.

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17 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

This is true to an extent; however, someone who's carnivorous and doesn't bother to build muscle will be fat, and those who eat only vegetables or even vegans will not build muscle as fast, (but it's more effective than not working out and eating meat). That out of the way we should do whatever we can to preserve Jhatka wherever Sikhs are, or else this Anti-meat groups will be causing our own political collapse, when you compare it to Halal.

wouldn't whey protein shakes enough help to build muscles for a vegan or vegetarian . Lets not forget desi pehlwans are vegetarians

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On 2017-4-29 at 10:44 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

This is true to an extent; however, someone who's carnivorous and doesn't bother to build muscle will be fat, and those who eat only vegetables or even vegans will not build muscle as fast, (but it's more effective than not working out and eating meat). That out of the way we should do whatever we can to preserve Jhatka wherever Sikhs are, or else this Anti-meat groups will be causing our own political collapse, when you compare it to Halal.

OMG! Halal's EVERYWHERE around here these days. I'd like to make a point clear, though I don't eat meat I would like to state, there is a big gap between halal and any normal meat... a BIG BIG gap. First evidence, ask a muslim if they'd prefer halal or jhatka. Second, during the make of halal process a Muslim will read kalmaa's over the animal... 

Final example, when we take out water from tap the world will call it water. But the SAME water if taken through Nitnem, mixed in patasi and khanda's mixed with it by panj pyaare in the presence of Maharaaj/ Sangat, SANGAT JI... NO SIKHS DARE TO CALL THAT WATER! If certain rituals have turned water into Amrit then certain rituals turn normal animal into halal. 

It'll be a contradiction to say one turns into something special (Amrit) and the other is "Still normal" (Meat) i.e. "It doesn't matter. Meat is meat" because we do not say "I had taken water and got baptised..." 

CORRECT ME IF AM WRONG but this is how I see it. Am saying both rituals (Sorry to use the word rituals it means rasma) both rituals are truth in my eyes. If our prayers can turn water into Amrit then Muslim's prayers hold the power to convert the animal into halal, otherwise would have been just a normal meat/ jhatka. 

Feel free to debate folks... (I'll mention all this in a new topic someday too). 

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14 minutes ago, Singh1989 said:

Feel free to debate folks... (I'll mention all this in a new topic someday too). 

I don't know what you are trying to debate Halal or Jhatka, or whether to argue whether meat is ok. But even the most basic Maryada prohibits Halal meat. Also Nihangs read Chandi Di Vaar when doing Jhatka, so is that Halal?

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19 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I don't know what you are trying to debate Halal or Jhatka, or whether to argue whether meat is ok. But even the most basic Maryada prohibits Halal meat. Also Nihangs read Chandi Di Vaar when doing Jhatka, so is that Halal?

Ah! No. Am saying halal SHOULD be considered different from jhatka n gave reasons why "Meat is meat" is a complete wrong thing to claim.

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Absolutely, the meat is meat argument is an absolutely hypocritical thing for a sikh to say! so shameful!

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