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Kira

Has anyone here read the Quran

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34 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think that is a valid point. 

I read Gurbani in English translations for decades before I finally made the effort to grasp Gurmukhi and interact with Gurbani in the native lingua. The two experiences are so different, it's like experiencing two different texts/experiences.  

Perhaps that has something to do with the style and level of competence of the translator? I've read the English versions of the major Sikh banis, and I've got to say they are underwhelming to say the least. There's none of the poetry and the flow of the original Gurmukhi, which is understandable, but as a layman who appreciates the English language I'm pretty certain someone with a flair for the English language could create a superb English translation of SGGS Ji. Even in terms of grammar, the English translations are the typical broken Indian-English taught in Indian schools. It's actually quite a shame that for someone who might only be capable of reading English would come away disappointed in the English translation.

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33 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

You should ask the Saudis.

One of the first things uttered from any Muslims breath is that the QUran has remained unchanged since it was inscribed. That snippet of knowledge was shocking to say the least.

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3 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Perhaps that has something to do with the style and level of competence of the translator? I've read the English versions of the major Sikh banis, and I've got to say they are underwhelming to say the least. There's none of the poetry and the flow of the original Gurmukhi, which is understandable, but as a layman who appreciates the English language I'm pretty certain someone with a flair for the English language could create a superb English translation of SGGS Ji. Even in terms of grammar, the English translations are the typical broken Indian-English taught in Indian schools. It's actually quite a shame that for someone who might only be capable of reading English would come away disappointed in the English translation.

First limitation is "HE" . God is not a he . But we translate it that way. Some might think God in sikhi is a male.

Secondly , how do you translate "gurprasad" and some terms which are unique to sikhi ! 

Also "sochei soch na hovei" , soche means "washing" , as washrooms in india are also referred as "sochalay" .

Guru Sahib said "Soche soch na hovei je soche lakh vaar" (Washing , at tirth is not going to wash inside even if you washed 10000 times) but we translated soche to "think" and so the substandard translation was "By thinking about him a hundred times, he can't be reduced to thought) .

Btw, this "soche" being "cleaning" was pointed out by white sikhs.

Surprising how they understand it more than we do !

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7 minutes ago, Kira said:

One of the first things uttered from any Muslims breath is that the QUran has remained unchanged since it was inscribed. That snippet of knowledge was shocking to say the least.

There were 7 versions.

The 4th Caliph Othman had to burn 6 of them.

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The Quran is both the most over hyped and the most disappointing book I had the misfortune to attempt to read. Just read a few chapters and you will understand why only the brain dead would believe that it is from God.  

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In recent times my mind constantly returns to one question regarding Islam and our Guru Sahibs: if the Qur'an and its teachings are as their scriptures show them to be, why were our Guru Sahibs not unequivocal in their condemnation of the religion, its Prophet, and its teachings? How can the authors of our Bani possibly be so forgiving of the content of the Qur'an? I don't get it at all.

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14 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Perhaps that has something to do with the style and level of competence of the translator? I've read the English versions of the major Sikh banis, and I've got to say they are underwhelming to say the least. There's none of the poetry and the flow of the original Gurmukhi, which is understandable, but as a layman who appreciates the English language I'm pretty certain someone with a flair for the English language could create a superb English translation of SGGS Ji. Even in terms of grammar, the English translations are the typical broken Indian-English taught in Indian schools. It's actually quite a shame that for someone who might only be capable of reading English would come away disappointed in the English translation.

Translations should only ever be a limited introduction (or gateway) to the original texts. Nothing more, or less. 

There is something about the rhythm and flow of the originals that goes beyond semantics. It's a vibration. A frequency. 

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3 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

In recent times my mind constantly returns to one question regarding Islam and our Guru Sahibs: if the Qur'an and its teachings are as their scriptures show them to be, why were our Guru Sahibs not unequivocal in their condemnation of the religion, its Prophet, and its teachings? How can the authors of our Bani possibly be so forgiving of the content of the Qur'an? I don't get it at all.

In bani, our Gurus talk about the muslim not really about Islam or the prophet in particular. 

At least that is how I see it.

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17 minutes ago, Kira said:

One of the first things uttered from any Muslims breath is that the QUran has remained unchanged since it was inscribed. That snippet of knowledge was shocking to say the least.

and a blatant lie because their were 14 versions at the time of utman and large portions were committed to memory by individuals they were interviewed to collate the quran verses. NOne of 14 were complete, but Utman somehow created one and destroyed ALL first hand sources

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Just now, dallysingh101 said:

Translations should only ever be a limited introduction (or gateway) to the original texts. Nothing more, or less. 

There is something about the rhythm and flow of the originals that goes beyond semantics. It's a vibration. A frequency. 

Yes, i appreciate that aspect of it; it's all about the iambic metres and things of that nature, and how those linguistic measures evoke certain emotions and sensations beyond the process of simple reading and comprehension, isn't it?

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2 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

In bani, our Gurus talk about the muslim not really about Islam or the prophet in particular. 

At least that is how I see it.

They do talk about him in Bachitar Natak. 

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1 minute ago, MisterrSingh said:

In recent times my mind constantly returns to one question regarding Islam and our Guru Sahibs: if the Qur'an and its teachings are as their scriptures show them to be, why were our Guru Sahibs not unequivocal in their condemnation of the religion, its Prophet, and its teachings? How can the authors of our Bani possibly be so forgiving of the content of the Qur'an? I don't get it at all.

"Bed kateb kaho mat jhootey. Jhoota jo na beecharey" ~ SGGS

(Do not say that the vedas or semitic books are false . False are those who don't comprehend their essence)

 

Quran is one of those books , like uranium ! You can use it to run electricity plants or make it into atom bombs ! 

Unfortunately for this holy book, it landed amidst a bunch of buffoons ! Who didn't apprehend the underlying essence of it 

 

Who's kaafir ? they say its non muslims. Actually its those humans of any religion who refuse to thank god and are ungrateful. They say "Islam is the only religion acceptable to allah". True that, Islam (submission to will of god) is only religion acceptable to god . Its just that islam can be sikhi or hindu or buddhist too ! 

When you interpret these scriptures and saying in a metaphorical and subtle way, the beauty emerges ! and extremism fades into thin air ! 

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2 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Yes, i appreciate that aspect of it; it's all about the iambic metres and things of that nature, and how those linguistic measures evoke certain emotions and sensations beyond the process of simple reading and comprehension, isn't it?

I don't know what it is. I don't even want to analyse it, or use reductionist techniques against it. When I'm lucky, I get to feel it. End of. 

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1 minute ago, MisterrSingh said:

Yes, i appreciate that aspect of it; it's all about the iambic metres and things of that nature, and how those linguistic measures evoke certain emotions and sensations beyond the process of simple reading and comprehension, isn't it?

Guru Sahiban would not have commented on the quran as such because the quran was not the same as it is now , also the hadiths were ascribed to Mohammed many years after his death ; in that case anyone can say anything and say the prophet said it , I mean the sayings had to be sifted for the final published ones out of many thousands 

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I havent read the quran. But if I did, i think i would really connect with it. Its the only other scripture besides sggs i think that goes into raptures about God. And arabic sounds beautiful. Reminds me of jaap sahib. The parts ajeetsingh quoted read likea beautiful eulogy to God. But i probably couldn't stomach the extensive rules on slaughtering and marital matters. The hadiths from wht ive seen are crazy. 

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