Kira

Has anyone here read the Quran

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As the title goes has anyone actually read the Quran here? I've seen quite alot of people debating about various quotes from it but all of them seem to be from rather biased websites, its interesting how so many people just throw these quotes out but im genuinely curious if anyone has read any portion of it or even any of the Hadiths.

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I'm going to start in a short while. I can't form concrete opinions based on second hand knowledge. It's not the right thing to do.

If i start dropping Islamic terminology like PBUH, etc, in my posts, then you know they've got me, lol. 

Allahu Akbar!! 

Edited by MisterrSingh
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1 minute ago, MisterrSingh said:

I'm going to start in a short while. I can't form concrete opinions based on second hand knowledge. It's not the right thing to do.

If i start dropping Islamic terminology like PBUH, etc, in my posts, then you know they've got me, lol. 

Allahu Akbar!! 

I;m tempted to order the Quran from India in Gurmukhi script with proper meanings too lol, but im pretty sure my family there might start telling my parents I'm turning into a muslim. 

I would ask my muslim classmates but In all honesty I want more neutral opinions of it, not ones forged in the depths of childhood brainwashing lol.

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I read the Quran a few years ago, wasn't particularly impressed.

Read the version of the quran sanctioned by Saudi Arabia, from real Arabs not our converted subcontinental cousins.

The Hadiths are far worse.

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The one most common argument put forward by Muslims to a non-Muslim who's read the Qur'an and the Hadiths, and isn't having any of it is, "But you need to read it in Arabic to appreciate it's purity and depth!" So begins a never-ending process of wrapping the reader in a web of activity to deflect criticism. 

I'll get a hold of what's the commonly accepted best English translation. 

Edited by MisterrSingh
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6 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

The one most common argument put forward by Muslims to a non-Muslim who's read the Qur'an and the Hadiths, and isn't having any of it is, "But you need to read it in Arabic to appreciate it's purity and depth!" So begins a never-ending process of wrapping the reader in a web of activity to deflect criticism. 

I'll get a hold of what's the commonly accepted best English translation. 

Precisely. It's no different to saying that in order to properly study the Vikings, you gotta start worshipping Odin. 

28 minutes ago, Kira said:

As the title goes has anyone actually read the Quran here? I've seen quite alot of people debating about various quotes from it but all of them seem to be from rather biased websites, its interesting how so many people just throw these quotes out but im genuinely curious if anyone has read any portion of it or even any of the Hadiths.

Some, but, I suspect, not nearly as many as the treasure trove of Islamic charchas on this forum might suggest. 

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41 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I read the Quran a few years ago, wasn't particularly impressed.

Read the version of the quran sanctioned by Saudi Arabia, from real Arabs not our converted subcontinental cousins.

The Hadiths are far worse.

another version? I was under the illusion there was only 1 version. 

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I read a fair bit of a translation by Marmaduke Pickhall when I was a teenager. It wasn't too impressive. Seemed quite dark in places. 

Hadiths are quite interesting as well. 

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34 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

The one most common argument put forward by Muslims to a non-Muslim who's read the Qur'an and the Hadiths, and isn't having any of it is, "But you need to read it in Arabic to appreciate it's purity and depth!" So begins a never-ending process of wrapping the reader in a web of activity to deflect criticism. 

I'll get a hold of what's the commonly accepted best English translation. 

I think that is a valid point. 

I read Gurbani in English translations for decades before I finally made the effort to grasp Gurmukhi and interact with Gurbani in the native lingua. The two experiences are so different, it's like experiencing two different texts/experiences.  

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14 minutes ago, Kira said:

another version? I was under the illusion there was only 1 version. 

You should ask the Saudis.

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1 hour ago, Kira said:

As the title goes has anyone actually read the Quran here?

Yes. I read it, and couldn't understand why peopple would become muslims because of it.

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I have read it , some of it only . An english translation by Yusuf Ali I guess . Its quite a small book . 

It has 114 chapters in it. The first one is called "Al Fatihah" (The opening) . 

Fatiha in arabic means "opening" or "victory" (fateh).

 

I even remember it in arabic to an extent as the first chapter is small lol . Like our mool mantar.

Bismillah Ar-rahman Ar-raheem 

(In the name of allah, The merciful, the compassionate)

 

Alhamdulillah RABBI al aalameen 

(Praise be to the lord (rabb) of the worlds ) . Interestingly Punjabi word "rabb" is here ! 

 

Ar rahman Ar raheem 

(Oh merciful, Oh compassionate)

 

Maaliki Yaumi id-deen

(The master of the day of judgement)

 

Iyyaaka na'abudu waa iyaaka nasta'een 

(You alone we worship and you alone we seek for help)

 

Ihdin assira'at al mustaqeem Siraatal ladheena an ‘amta’ alaihim
Ghairil maghduubi’ alaihim waladaaleen

Aameen

(Guide us on the straight path,
the path of those who have received your grace;
not the path of those who have brought down wrath, nor of those who wander astray.
Amen.)

 

Its beautiful , not at all violent ! 

 

At some places later, its quire scary . Esp chapter 5 which is where I guess laws related to robbery, adultery , etc etc is

It clearly states "As for the thief, cut off the hand and feet from opposite side" BUT also stresses on forgiveness if the thief repents .

In chapter 2 , al-baqaara (The cow) its about dietary laws . Don't eat this, eat this only . Laws are similar to that of jews !

 

Its said "meccan verses" (earlier verses) were peaceful, the "madinan verses" (later verses, muhammad claimed to have received by angel gabriel in madina when he grew in community , were more intolerant and scathing) 

 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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1 hour ago, Kira said:

As the title goes has anyone actually read the Quran here? I've seen quite alot of people debating about various quotes from it but all of them seem to be from rather biased websites, its interesting how so many people just throw these quotes out but im genuinely curious if anyone has read any portion of it or even any of the Hadiths.

Bits and pieces, (from one of the pro-Islamic websites, not one of those which picks the worst parts), and from the english translation, (I don't know Arabic), it seemed boring to say the least. If I'm going to be reading a story book, I'd rather read Harry Potter or something as silly like that. Never read the Hadiths directly; however, from what I've heard it's just a Maryada.

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24 minutes ago, chatanga said:

Yes. I read it, and couldn't understand why peopple would become muslims because of it.

I thought we as sikhs , our history is evident of fact that Islam always thrived on forcible conversion.

People might not have converted voluntarily but at the tip of sword or by softer coercions like "money", "protection", being tax-free etc 

And ofcourse the whole mutilation (sunnat) aspect of religion makes me cringe ! 

Glad I am a sikh 

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1 minute ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Bits and pieces, (from one of the pro-Islamic websites, not one of those which picks the worst parts), and from the english translation, (I don't know Arabic), it seemed boring to say the least. If I'm going to be reading a story book, I'd rather read Harry Potter or something as silly like that. Never read the Hadiths directly; however, from what I've heard it's just a Maryada.

I don't think its always boring ! Its quite inspiring at a few places , but then again its very limited . 

 

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34 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think that is a valid point. 

I read Gurbani in English translations for decades before I finally made the effort to grasp Gurmukhi and interact with Gurbani in the native lingua. The two experiences are so different, it's like experiencing two different texts/experiences.  

Perhaps that has something to do with the style and level of competence of the translator? I've read the English versions of the major Sikh banis, and I've got to say they are underwhelming to say the least. There's none of the poetry and the flow of the original Gurmukhi, which is understandable, but as a layman who appreciates the English language I'm pretty certain someone with a flair for the English language could create a superb English translation of SGGS Ji. Even in terms of grammar, the English translations are the typical broken Indian-English taught in Indian schools. It's actually quite a shame that for someone who might only be capable of reading English would come away disappointed in the English translation.

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33 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

You should ask the Saudis.

One of the first things uttered from any Muslims breath is that the QUran has remained unchanged since it was inscribed. That snippet of knowledge was shocking to say the least.

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3 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Perhaps that has something to do with the style and level of competence of the translator? I've read the English versions of the major Sikh banis, and I've got to say they are underwhelming to say the least. There's none of the poetry and the flow of the original Gurmukhi, which is understandable, but as a layman who appreciates the English language I'm pretty certain someone with a flair for the English language could create a superb English translation of SGGS Ji. Even in terms of grammar, the English translations are the typical broken Indian-English taught in Indian schools. It's actually quite a shame that for someone who might only be capable of reading English would come away disappointed in the English translation.

First limitation is "HE" . God is not a he . But we translate it that way. Some might think God in sikhi is a male.

Secondly , how do you translate "gurprasad" and some terms which are unique to sikhi ! 

Also "sochei soch na hovei" , soche means "washing" , as washrooms in india are also referred as "sochalay" .

Guru Sahib said "Soche soch na hovei je soche lakh vaar" (Washing , at tirth is not going to wash inside even if you washed 10000 times) but we translated soche to "think" and so the substandard translation was "By thinking about him a hundred times, he can't be reduced to thought) .

Btw, this "soche" being "cleaning" was pointed out by white sikhs.

Surprising how they understand it more than we do !

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7 minutes ago, Kira said:

One of the first things uttered from any Muslims breath is that the QUran has remained unchanged since it was inscribed. That snippet of knowledge was shocking to say the least.

There were 7 versions.

The 4th Caliph Othman had to burn 6 of them.

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The Quran is both the most over hyped and the most disappointing book I had the misfortune to attempt to read. Just read a few chapters and you will understand why only the brain dead would believe that it is from God.  

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In recent times my mind constantly returns to one question regarding Islam and our Guru Sahibs: if the Qur'an and its teachings are as their scriptures show them to be, why were our Guru Sahibs not unequivocal in their condemnation of the religion, its Prophet, and its teachings? How can the authors of our Bani possibly be so forgiving of the content of the Qur'an? I don't get it at all.

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14 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Perhaps that has something to do with the style and level of competence of the translator? I've read the English versions of the major Sikh banis, and I've got to say they are underwhelming to say the least. There's none of the poetry and the flow of the original Gurmukhi, which is understandable, but as a layman who appreciates the English language I'm pretty certain someone with a flair for the English language could create a superb English translation of SGGS Ji. Even in terms of grammar, the English translations are the typical broken Indian-English taught in Indian schools. It's actually quite a shame that for someone who might only be capable of reading English would come away disappointed in the English translation.

Translations should only ever be a limited introduction (or gateway) to the original texts. Nothing more, or less. 

There is something about the rhythm and flow of the originals that goes beyond semantics. It's a vibration. A frequency. 

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3 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

In recent times my mind constantly returns to one question regarding Islam and our Guru Sahibs: if the Qur'an and its teachings are as their scriptures show them to be, why were our Guru Sahibs not unequivocal in their condemnation of the religion, its Prophet, and its teachings? How can the authors of our Bani possibly be so forgiving of the content of the Qur'an? I don't get it at all.

In bani, our Gurus talk about the muslim not really about Islam or the prophet in particular. 

At least that is how I see it.

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17 minutes ago, Kira said:

One of the first things uttered from any Muslims breath is that the QUran has remained unchanged since it was inscribed. That snippet of knowledge was shocking to say the least.

and a blatant lie because their were 14 versions at the time of utman and large portions were committed to memory by individuals they were interviewed to collate the quran verses. NOne of 14 were complete, but Utman somehow created one and destroyed ALL first hand sources

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Just now, dallysingh101 said:

Translations should only ever be a limited introduction (or gateway) to the original texts. Nothing more, or less. 

There is something about the rhythm and flow of the originals that goes beyond semantics. It's a vibration. A frequency. 

Yes, i appreciate that aspect of it; it's all about the iambic metres and things of that nature, and how those linguistic measures evoke certain emotions and sensations beyond the process of simple reading and comprehension, isn't it?

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