Sikhism is no more the fifth-largest religion

[BhForce]

4 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

2 hours ago, BhForce said:

The current trend towards people having 2-bedroom houses, with one for the man and wife, and the other for their one son is demographically dangerous, and basically suicide.

Honestly don't understand what this means. 

I'm simply saying that a great number of Sikhs are choosing to have only one child, a problem that has been highlighted by a number of other posters, including @genie, I believe. The point about the 2-br house is just that people want to spend less money, so they have less children, and then they fritter it away on fancy vacations and whatnot.

This is demographic disaster because a population needs to have a total fertility rate of slightly greater than 2 just to stay at the same level of population.

Having 1 child means decline of population, and, eventually, elimination (group suicide).

[Guest Jacfsing2]

7 minutes ago, BhForce said:

I'm simply saying that a great number of Sikhs are choosing to have only one child, a problem that has been highlighted by a number of other posters, including @genie, I believe. The point about the 2-br house is just that people want to spend less money, so they have less children, and then they fritter it away on fancy vacations and whatnot.

This is demographic disaster because a population needs to have a total fertility rate of slightly greater than 2 just to stay at the same level of population.

Having 1 child means decline of population, and, eventually, elimination (group suicide).

I think fertility rate is important; however, with the way the majority of our people are going, I think we should focus in reviving our Sikhi among them first. Our people are mentally and spiritually weak from what people were about 50 years ago. Until we restore Sikh principles and limit missionary jatha influence, our reproduction will only make the Anti-Sikh amongst us larger. First we restore our spirits and then can we increase as a population.

[BhForce]

7 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Even Randhir Singh said in his book when he saw all those Jamdoots how they fear the power of Guru Sahib and anyone who was Sikh.

It's quite surprising how you would refer to a 20th century Sikh personality that most Sikhs know as "Bhai Randhir Singh" as "Randhir SIngh". If we can't even refer with respect to our own Sikh saints with respect, who will, Muslims?

Near to the end of Gurbani, there's a line that says referring to and addressing saintly Sikhs with respect (by saying "Ji") will earn you freedom from the Messengers of Death:

ਤੁਧੁ ਸਾਲਾਹਨਿ ਤਿਨ ਧਨੁ ਪਲੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਧਨੁ ਸੋਈ ॥

Those who praise You gather the wealth in their laps; this is Nanak's wealth.

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੨੮ ਪੰ. ੭ 

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਜੀਉ ਕਹੈ ਓਨਾ ਕਉ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਤਲਬ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੩॥

Whoever shows respect to them is not summoned by the Messenger of Death. ||4||3||

So let us all refer to Mani Singh, Budha, Gurbachan Singh, Sunder Singh, Randhir Singh, Attar Singh, Gurdas, Kabeer, Puran Singh* and so on as Bhai Mani Singh ji Shaheed, Baba Buddha ji, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh ji, Sant Giani Sunder Singh ji, Bhai Randhir Singh ji, Baba Attar Singh ji, Bhai Gurdas ji, Bhagat Kabir ji, Bhagat Puran Singh ji and so on.

*This is not an ordered list!

[BhForce]

Just now, Jacfsing2 said:

Until we restore Sikh principles and limit missionary jatha influence, our reproduction will only make the Anti-Sikh amongst us larger.

OK, I can see that. But note that the people who usually heed the call to increase numbers are the most devout. That's the case in other faiths, too. So, as an amendment to my post above, "Devout Sikhs, make some babies!"

[Guest Jacfsing2]

2 minutes ago, BhForce said:

It's quite surprising how you would refer to a 20th century Sikh personality that most Sikhs know as "Bhai Randhir Singh" as "Randhir SIngh". If we can't even refer with respect to our own Sikh saints with respect, who will, Muslims?

Near to the end of Gurbani, there's a line that says referring to and addressing saintly Sikhs with respect (by saying "Ji") will earn you freedom from the Messengers of Death:

ਤੁਧੁ ਸਾਲਾਹਨਿ ਤਿਨ ਧਨੁ ਪਲੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਧਨੁ ਸੋਈ ॥

Those who praise You gather the wealth in their laps; this is Nanak's wealth.

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ (ਮ: ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੨੮ ਪੰ. ੭ 

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਜੀਉ ਕਹੈ ਓਨਾ ਕਉ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਤਲਬ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੪॥੩॥

Whoever shows respect to them is not summoned by the Messenger of Death. ||4||3||

So let us all refer to Mani Singh, Budha, Gurbachan Singh, Sunder Singh, Randhir Singh, Attar Singh, Gurdas, Kabeer, Puran Singh* and so on as Bhai Mani Singh ji Shaheed, Baba Buddha ji, Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh ji, Sant Giani Sunder Singh ji, Bhai Randhir Singh ji, Baba Attar Singh ji, Bhai Gurdas ji, Bhagat Kabir ji, Bhagat Puran Singh ji and so on.

*This is not an ordered list!

[Kira]

regarding Jaamdoots there's an interesting story regarding a Sant (I can't remember his name), Sant Ji was doing Tapisya and eventually reached a state where he could see Jamdhoots, he came across some of them beating a man (well soul), Sant Ji asks him why this was happening. The Jamdoots told him that this person had asked people to touch their feet and revere them as Sants and God. Sant Ji decided from then on that no one would be allowed to touch his feet, it's a really simple way on how you can tell if anyone is a Saintly Person. 

Here's another nice incident from Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji's book.

 

Quote

I had a cousin, named Tek Singh. He delved in evil company and was known for his drinking and evil‐doings. He suffered from tuberculosis in prime of his youth that proved fatal. He suffered greatly while dying. He would stare toward rooftop and give out shrieks in terror. He would point and describe that, "Those terrible yamas are scaring me by baring their teeth, as if they would make a meal out of me. Seeing this, my body shakes uncontrollably and I am scared to death." Those days I was newly initiated. In my spiritual eagerness, I was devoting constantly to Naam‐ recitations and as many recitations of Sukhmani Sahib as I could perform. Naam‐contemplation and patth recitation of Sukhmani Sahib proceeded simultaneously. While thus engaged, my mother informed me of the worsening condition of Tek Singh.

She described that he was wailing a lot and all his body was shaking in fear. She further told me, "It is very strange and he is pointing towards invisible yamas as they terrorize him. She wanted me to go and see him. Following my mother's instructions, I went to see him. No sooner I entered the room, he gave sigh of relief, saying, " Ah! What a relief! Come, sit near me. The scaring yamas have taken to their heels at your arrival. You must not leave, but remain with me." Everybody sitting around us was taken by surprise at his sudden composure from wailing and shaking in terror. This happening reinforced my Faith in Satguru, and I was inwardly praying to Him gratefully in joy. My prayer was, that "O' Lord True! This is a miracle of Gurbani, Sukhmani Sahib, that has brought about sudden change. How else can a lowly person like me be worthy of this?"

My faith in efficacy of Gurbani, and in particular Sri Sukhmani Sahib, increased ten‐fold. I was left in no doubt, that it was patth of Sri Sukhmani Sahib that scared away the yamas. As long as I stayed with him, I kept reciting Sri Sukhmani Sahib. My cousin remained peaceful. He held on to my arm to make sure that I did not leave. In the evening, it was time for me to go back home for closing ceremony of Sri Guru Granth Sahib for the day. So, I had to leave. It was just my stepping out of the room, that my cousin started wailing again. I returned immediately and asked my sister and cousins (sisters of Tek Singh) to recite Sukhmani Sahib patth from the prayer books. When they started recitation,

I left. With this Tek Singh felt lot of relief. I prayed in presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib for his peaceful death, free from terror. After the prayer, I read Divine Commandment from Sri Guru Granth Sahib. As though in answer to my prayer, the Gurbani clearly portrayed his past‐life. I became convinced that his end was near and that there was urgent need to recite Gurbani to him for his peaceful end. This Gurbani recitation was continued near him.

Toward the end, I requested all the gathered relatives to recite five patths each of Jap Ji Sahib. Those who could not recite from memory used the prayer books. As we came to close the fifth recitation of Jap Ji Sahib, he stopped breathing and departed peacefully before our very eyes. With start of the recitation itself, his breathing became normal from hard breathing sound and flow of tears from his eyes stopped. In response to his sisters' query, he confirmed that he saw no more the terrible yamas that had been scaring him. This is my first‐hand witness of events.

None of us could vision the coming or going of yamas nor we had any such desire. Our cherished desire was that the one being terrorized by the yamas should be rid of his agony. That peaceful change we could see was made clear by change of his condition. Moreover, the yamas appear before the dying person only or may be to the persons who delve in specialized knowledge about such spirits. The lesson learnt was that yamas dare not approach the person reciting or listening to Gurbani patth. They just flee away from a distance. Truly words of the Guru are efficacious to cut asunder noose of the yamas.

 

[genie]

I used to be more of the view that quality is more important than quantity.

But nowadays I think it is vital we push the idea that quantity over quality is better, as we have seen what quality we have and it isn't much. If you look at our kaum we don't have many inspirational parchariks or religious leaders any more that inspire the youth want to be real Sikhs. At least with quantity we can do alot with it in the political arena and in the past had we pushed that agenda we would have been better off as a global community a million times over no doubt.

For the time being quality over quantity need to be shoved firmly put down into the box of shame (ie sarbat da balla liberal hippy, leftist marxist cucked and atheist punjabi types.)

Only after we get majority of our kaums head sorted ideologically and then progress can be made in terms of demographics and other dilemma s face us

[jkvlondon]

33 minutes ago, genie said:

I used to be more of the view that quality is more important than quantity.

But nowadays I think it is vital we push the idea that quantity over quality is better, as we have seen what quality we have and it isn't much. If you look at our kaum we don't have many inspirational pariks or religious leaders any more that inspire the youth want to be real Sikhs. At least with quantity we can do alot with it in the political arena and in the past had we pushed that agenda we would have been better off as a global community a million times over no doubt.

For the time being quality over quantity need to be shoved firmly put down into the box of shame (ie sarbat da balla liberal hippy, leftist marxist cucked and atheist punjabi types.)

Only after we get majority of our kaums head sorted ideologically and then progress can be made in terms of demographics and other dilemma s face us

so you would prefer half-baked sikhs rather than the real deal just to boost numbers ?

[genie]

11 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

so you would prefer half-baked sikhs rather than the real deal just to boost numbers ?

yup because I see majority of Sikhs are half baked at present times anyways. So focusing on quantity now will only be a positive thing.

Quality will always be small in number and it will become better with a big pool of demographics we will have in the future. Also quality is a personal thing for each Sikh to focus themselves on refining it shouldn't be our slogan.

[jkvlondon]

13 minutes ago, genie said:

yup because I see majority of Sikhs are half baked at present times anyways. So focusing on quantity now will only be a positive thing.

Quality will always be small in number and it will become better with a big pool of demographics we will have in the future. Also quality is a personal thing for each Sikh to focus themselves on refining it shouldn't be our slogan.

why is everybody discounting the droves we could get from other nationalities with good parchaar because breeding them won't change anything much for a couple of decades by then it may be too late to turn Punjab.