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Was Sheikh Farid Ji a Muslim?

71 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Your logic is flawed.. Why can't he be a Sikh and a sufi and a Muslim.. If you follow the truth then labels are irrelevant 

My logic is fine. If you think you can recite the oath to Muhammad and still be a Sikh then please explain to me how? The very oath says any other religion is false..by reciting it you say Sikhism and Guru Nanak Dev Ji are false. So tell me how someone can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak and a follower of Muhammad. Tell me how a reciter of the Quran which considers itself the ONLY authority from God also sit there and say Gurbani is the same. That's called Blasphemy is Islam. So no. try again.

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2 minutes ago, Kira said:

My logic is fine. If you think you can recite the oath to Muhammad and still be a Sikh then please explain to me how? The very oath says any other religion is false..by reciting it you say Sikhism and Guru Nanak Dev Ji are false. So tell me how someone can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak and a follower of Muhammad. Tell me how a reciter of the Quran which considers itself the ONLY authority from God also sit there and say Gurbani is the same. That's called Blasphemy is Islam. So no. try again.

The two are not mutually exclusive 

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Just now, Sukhvirk1976 said:

The two are not mutually exclusive 

I've asked you to explain to me how someone can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak but also call him a false prophet, how someone can consider the Quran the sole authority of God but also say that Gurbani is the same lmao. Rather than posting 1 sentence answers, maybe explain it a bit? 

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Just now, Kira said:

I've asked you to explain to me how someone can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak but also call him a false prophet, how someone can consider the Quran the sole authority of God but also say that Gurbani is the same lmao. Rather than posting 1 sentence answers, maybe explain it a bit? 

Akaal is beyond the duality. You see dichotomy. 1ongkaar

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2 minutes ago, Kira said:

I've asked you to explain to me how someone can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak but also call him a false prophet, how someone can consider the Quran the sole authority of God but also say that Gurbani is the same lmao. Rather than posting 1 sentence answers, maybe explain it a bit? 

Do I really need to explain.. Try mool mantar.. I mean this is a Sikh forum.. Have you heard of it? 

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3 minutes ago, Kira said:

I've asked you to explain to me how someone can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak but also call him a false prophet, how someone can consider the Quran the sole authority of God but also say that Gurbani is the same lmao. Rather than posting 1 sentence answers, maybe explain it a bit? 

Well for a start it would be difficult for Baba farid ji to call guru nanak dev ji a false prophet since he lived about 300 years before him but rather don't you think it's important that guru sahibs did not call him a apostate? 

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12 minutes ago, Kira said:

My logic is fine. If you think you can recite the oath to Muhammad and still be a Sikh then please explain to me how? The very oath says any other religion is false..by reciting it you say Sikhism and Guru Nanak Dev Ji are false. So tell me how someone can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak and a follower of Muhammad. Tell me how a reciter of the Quran which considers itself the ONLY authority from God also sit there and say Gurbani is the same. That's called Blasphemy is Islam. So no. try again.

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12 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Do I really need to explain.. Try mool mantar.. I mean this is a Sikh forum.. Have you heard of it? 

That alone speaks volumes of your laziness, the argument that God is beyond Duality can be applied to everything and anyone. The fake Babas that roam India can use the same argument "I can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev and also go to these people" The Aztecs sacrificed humans to gods "oh its ok God is beyond Duality, I can be a Sikh as well" Do you get the small flaw? 

I asked you and I'll repeat since it seems forming cohesive thoughts is something you dislike. How can someone who sits there reciting the Quran, reciting the Kalima and then say "I'm a Sikh"  still be both a muslim and a Sikh. You can't swear oaths to 2 sovereigns and say you belong to both. 

9 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Well for a start it would be difficult for Baba farid ji to call guru nanak dev ji a false prophet since he lived about 300 years before him but rather don't you think it's important that guru sahibs did not call him a apostate? 

We just established he wasn't a Muslim, you even admitted it. If Farid Ji was a muslim at the start of his life (most likely yes) then yes he did believe anyone after Muhammed would be an apostate. However Farid Ji changed and became enlightened so obviously he would no longer be restricted by that narrow myopic viewpoint.  The end game was He ended up one with God through Gurbani (a small portion of it).

 

Obviously he didn't. That twisted logic is like saying when people joined Guru Nanak Dev Ji and became Sikhs, we should still consider them Hindus/Muslims.

Edited by Kira

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On 25/04/2017 at 7:49 PM, Singh559 said:

Baba Farid was the 6th dera head of the dera started by Baba Farid Shakarganj and was a contemporary to Guru Nanak Dev Ji thus Bhagat Farid Ji was a Gurmukh contemporary to Guru Nanak Dev Ji.


@Bijla Singh could shed more light

Bani of Baba farid is of the first 

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Just now, Kira said:

That alone speaks volumes of your laziness, the argument that God is beyond Duality can be applied to everything and anyone. The fake Babas that roam India can use the same argument "I can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev and also go to these people" The Aztecs sacrificed humans to gods "oh its ok God is beyond Duality, I can be a Sikh as well" Do you get the small flaw? 

I asked you and I'll repeat since it seems forming cohesive thoughts is something you dislike. How can someone who sits there reciting the Quran, reciting the Kalima and then say "I'm a Sikh"  still be both a muslim and a Sikh. You can't swear oaths to 2 sovereigns and say you belong to both. 

We just established he wasn't a Muslim, you even admitted it. If Farid Ji was a muslim at the start of his life (most likely yes) then yes he did believe anyone after Muhammed would be an apostate. However Farid Ji changed and became enlightened so obviously he would no longer be restricted by that narrow myopic viewpoint. Obviously he didn't. That twisted logic is like saying when people joined Guru Nanak Dev Ji and became Sikhs, we should still consider them Hindus/Muslims.

Oh dear.. Nuff said 

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7 minutes ago, Kira said:

That alone speaks volumes of your laziness, the argument that God is beyond Duality can be applied to everything and anyone. The fake Babas that roam India can use the same argument "I can be a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev and also go to these people" The Aztecs sacrificed humans to gods "oh its ok God is beyond Duality, I can be a Sikh as well" Do you get the small flaw? 

I asked you and I'll repeat since it seems forming cohesive thoughts is something you dislike. How can someone who sits there reciting the Quran, reciting the Kalima and then say "I'm a Sikh"  still be both a muslim and a Sikh. You can't swear oaths to 2 sovereigns and say you belong to both. 

We just established he wasn't a Muslim, you even admitted it. If Farid Ji was a muslim at the start of his life (most likely yes) then yes he did believe anyone after Muhammed would be an apostate. However Farid Ji changed and became enlightened so obviously he would no longer be restricted by that narrow myopic viewpoint.  The end game was He ended up one with God through Gurbani (a small portion of it).

 

Obviously he didn't. That twisted logic is like saying when people joined Guru Nanak Dev Ji and became Sikhs, we should still consider them Hindus/Muslims.

 

He who swears to me on the Koran
Ought not to have killed or imprisoned my men. 

Guru gobind Singh ji clearly respected those of true faith 

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14 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Well for a start it would be difficult for Baba farid ji to call guru nanak dev ji a false prophet since he lived about 300 years before him but rather don't you think it's important that guru sahibs did not call him a apostate? 

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh ji

I think that our Sri Guru Sahib ji`s are above the titles of ``prophethood``.. For instance, I`ve heard Muslims say that even Muhhamad ji has made mistakes, and yet is a prophet.. So by that logic I think calling my Satguru ji a ``prophet`` would be considered odd because Satguru jis do not make mistakes.

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1 minute ago, Preeet said:

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh ji

I think that our Sri Guru Sahib ji`s are above the titles of ``prophethood``.. For instance, I`ve heard Muslims say that even Muhhamad ji has made mistakes, and yet is a prophet.. So by that logic I think calling my Satguru ji a ``prophet`` would be considered odd because Satguru jis do not make mistakes.

Satgurus always were clear that they were not prophets, that it was revelation through gian.. They lived amongst us just as SGGS ji does today 

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13 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

 

He who swears to me on the Koran
Ought not to have killed or imprisoned my men. 

Guru gobind Singh ji clearly respected those of true faith 

There's a difference between respect and thinking its right. Guru Gobind Singh Ji respected various Hindus and Muslims, that suddenly didn't make him say that someone could be a Sikh and a Muslim/Hindu at the same time. That quote is about anyone who takes false oaths, Guru Sahib told his Sikhs not to trust anyone like that anyways. 

 

So once again I've asked you to provide a logical way in how someone can adhere to Islam but also be a follower of Guru Nanak Dev Ji How can someone proclaim the Quran is the only revelation of God but also then turn around and say "yup Gurbani is the same too" 

 

Edited by Kira

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2 minutes ago, Kira said:

There's a difference between respect and thinking its right. Guru Gobind Singh Ji respected various Hindus and Muslims, that suddenly didn't make him say that someone could be a Sikh and a Muslim at the same time. That quote is about anyone who takes false oaths, Guru Sahib told his Sikhs not to trust anyone like that anyways. 

 

So once again I've asked you to provide a logical way in how someone can adhere to Islam but also be a follower of Guru Nanak Dev Ji How can someone proclaim the Quran is the only revelation of God but also then turn around and say "yup Gurbani is the same too" 

 

If guru nanak dev ji could wear a chadar with inscriptions of the Quran yet also chastise those who abused the authority of the Quran for there own means... If you believe akaal is one (which as someone who proclaims to be a Sikh) it's very easy to move beyond the politics of religion... 

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6 minutes ago, Kira said:

There's a difference between respect and thinking its right. Guru Gobind Singh Ji respected various Hindus and Muslims, that suddenly didn't make him say that someone could be a Sikh and a Muslim at the same time. That quote is about anyone who takes false oaths, Guru Sahib told his Sikhs not to trust anyone like that anyways. 

 

So once again I've asked you to provide a logical way in how someone can adhere to Islam but also be a follower of Guru Nanak Dev Ji How can someone proclaim the Quran is the only revelation of God but also then turn around and say "yup Gurbani is the same too" 

 

Someone who is a true Muslim, true Christian, true 'sikh' doesn't get lost in communalism 

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9 minutes ago, Kira said:

There's a difference between respect and thinking its right. Guru Gobind Singh Ji respected various Hindus and Muslims, that suddenly didn't make him say that someone could be a Sikh and a Muslim/Hindu at the same time. That quote is about anyone who takes false oaths, Guru Sahib told his Sikhs not to trust anyone like that anyways. 

 

So once again I've asked you to provide a logical way in how someone can adhere to Islam but also be a follower of Guru Nanak Dev Ji How can someone proclaim the Quran is the only revelation of God but also then turn around and say "yup Gurbani is the same too" 

 

Gurbani is unique and the message transcends dogmatism.. 

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11 minutes ago, Kira said:

There's a difference between respect and thinking its right. Guru Gobind Singh Ji respected various Hindus and Muslims, that suddenly didn't make him say that someone could be a Sikh and a Muslim/Hindu at the same time. That quote is about anyone who takes false oaths, Guru Sahib told his Sikhs not to trust anyone like that anyways. 

 

So once again I've asked you to provide a logical way in how someone can adhere to Islam but also be a follower of Guru Nanak Dev Ji How can someone proclaim the Quran is the only revelation of God but also then turn around and say "yup Gurbani is the same too" 

 

So you don't agree with mool mantar? 

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3 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Someone who is a true Muslim, true Christian, true 'sikh' doesn't get lost in communalism 

A true "Sikh" is one who believes in Gurbani wholeheartedly, They also believe Guru Nanak Dev Ji is the only ship that can save you in Kalyug. A true Muslim believes in the Quran and Muhammad wholeheartedly. Similar concepts for a Christian, so tell me how Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Muhammad and Jesus are all on the same level. If only Guru Nanak Dev Ji can save someone in kalyug these figures can't do anything. So uhm no, its impossible to be both. 

 

Just now, Sukhvirk1976 said:

So you don't agree with mool mantar? 

Mool Mantar says "Gur prasad", with the Grace of the GURU. So tell me is Muhammad a Guru now? The only Guru who's existed throughout the ages and who exists for anyone in Kalyug is Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Rather than repeating the same trash again and again and again I thought it would be smart to ask you a straightforward question but it seems that has either exploded your mind or (judging by the fact you can't seem to formulate your thoughts into 1 post) you just wish to talk out of your rear end all the time. I'll ask you again. 

A Muslim who proclaims Muhammad is the only way to God. How can he also proclaim that Gurbani is a viable Option. The very core of any muslim is the fact that they all recite that Muhammad is the only way to God. SO tell me how someone can say 2 polar opposites and also be both. How can someone call something a lie and the truth at the same time. Gurbani also states that the Quran, Vedas etc are all incomplete, How can someone sit there and say that but also say "the Quran is perfect" . Yeah no. Nice try. 

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2 minutes ago, Kira said:

A true "Sikh" is one who believes in Gurbani wholeheartedly, They also believe Guru Nanak Dev Ji is the only ship that can save you in Kalyug. A true Muslim believes in the Quran and Muhammad wholeheartedly. Similar concepts for a Christian, so tell me how Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Muhammad and Jesus are all on the same level. If only Guru Nanak Dev Ji can save someone in kalyug these figures can't do anything. So uhm no, its impossible to be both. 

 

Mool Mantar says "Gur prasad", with the Grace of the GURU. So tell me is Muhammad a Guru now? The only Guru who's existed throughout the ages and who exists for anyone in Kalyug is Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Rather than repeating the same trash again and again and again I thought it would be smart to ask you a straightforward question but it seems that has either exploded your mind or (judging by the fact you can't seem to formulate your thoughts into 1 post) you just wish to talk out of your rear end all the time. I'll ask you again. 

A Muslim who proclaims Muhammad is the only way to God. How can he also proclaim that Gurbani is a viable Option. The very core of any muslim is the fact that they all recite that Muhammad is the only way to God. SO tell me how someone can say 2 polar opposites and also be both. How can someone call something a lie and the truth at the same time. Gurbani also states that the Quran, Vedas etc are all incomplete, How can someone sit there and say that but also say "the Quran is perfect" . Yeah no. Nice try. 

Baba Farid never said that 

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Just now, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Baba Farid never said that 

you're the one asserting that it's possible to be a Muslim and a Sikh. I asked you (using the proper beliefs of Islam) to prove it, you keep saying "true Muslim" " and I've shown you what the beliefs of a true Muslim is. Muslim in this context is a follower of Muhammad, if that's somewhat confusing you.

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  • Topics

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    • Baba Farid never said that 
    • A true "Sikh" is one who believes in Gurbani wholeheartedly, They also believe Guru Nanak Dev Ji is the only ship that can save you in Kalyug. A true Muslim believes in the Quran and Muhammad wholeheartedly. Similar concepts for a Christian, so tell me how Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Muhammad and Jesus are all on the same level. If only Guru Nanak Dev Ji can save someone in kalyug these figures can't do anything. So uhm no, its impossible to be both.    Mool Mantar says "Gur prasad", with the Grace of the GURU. So tell me is Muhammad a Guru now? The only Guru who's existed throughout the ages and who exists for anyone in Kalyug is Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Rather than repeating the same trash again and again and again I thought it would be smart to ask you a straightforward question but it seems that has either exploded your mind or (judging by the fact you can't seem to formulate your thoughts into 1 post) you just wish to talk out of your rear end all the time. I'll ask you again.  A Muslim who proclaims Muhammad is the only way to God. How can he also proclaim that Gurbani is a viable Option. The very core of any muslim is the fact that they all recite that Muhammad is the only way to God. SO tell me how someone can say 2 polar opposites and also be both. How can someone call something a lie and the truth at the same time. Gurbani also states that the Quran, Vedas etc are all incomplete, How can someone sit there and say that but also say "the Quran is perfect" . Yeah no. Nice try. 
    • So you don't agree with mool mantar? 
    • Gurbani is unique and the message transcends dogmatism.. 
    • Someone who is a true Muslim, true Christian, true 'sikh' doesn't get lost in communalism