CHaamCHrick

EU COURT ENDORSES A BAN ON SIKH TURBAN

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With the greatest of respect to the person speaking in this video it seem's he's got the wrong end of the stick or he's been wrongly informed as to how EU law works in relation to the UK irrelevant of whether we were going to stay in the EU or not (which we aren't anymore). He's speaking about an issue on France and claiming it is going on all over Europe.

This all relates to France's obsession (and law) with banning religious symbols in schools and the workplace, it started with the banning of a full burka because it covered the face and any religious dress that cover's the full face.

As a result of these laws Sikh's are not allowed to present a photo to the government authorities wearing a turban to obtain a passport, driving licence or any government identification document (ID); nor is a Sikh allowed to attend a state school wearing a turban.

The UN human rights body has backed French Sikh's in fighting this, for more information see the link below:

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/France_turban_issue

As far as the relevance to the UK, it has none, we have strong law's protecting religious identity and freedom and even if we stayed in the EU these would bear no relevance to us.

The reason no one is taking about it, no idea, as far as i know it's only France that kicks up a fuss about these things and the forthcoming election's over there are going to be interesting to say the least, especially if Marine Le Pen win's (which we all better pray she doesn't)

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There are about 15000 Sikhs in France and they live in the Paris area/region.

If things are so difficult for them, why don't they just move?

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I don't think we in the UK have anything to worry about, as the forummer above has explained in good detail.

What is quite disappointing from a Sikh perspective is the fact that a cowardly and ineffectual white establishment sees fit to throw the members of the Sikh religion - a faith that has no precedence in undermining social cohesion in Europe - under the bus, so to speak, for the sake of "fairness" instead of confronting the elephant in the room that is Islam and a certain strand of its followers. Under the devious cover of being seen to be just and fair, they'd rather attack all religious articles of faith rather than single out the one particular faith that has the problem. That's the kind of cowardice we're dealing with here in Europe. Do any of you honestly believe any of these people will stand up for us when the dark times arrive? Of course they won't. We'll only have ourselves to blame if we continue to wallow in a mistaken sense of security.

Edited by MisterrSingh
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33 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

If things are so difficult for them, why don't they just move?

If Le Pen win's the Presidential election that starts this weekend i think they may well have to move.

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Just now, kcmidlands said:

If Le Pen win's the Presidential election that starts this weekend i think they may well have to move.

are her policies really that anti-religion? I don't know too much about the French Election as I dont really focus too much on that region.

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5 minutes ago, kcmidlands said:

If Le Pen win's the Presidential election that starts this weekend i think they may well have to move.

The fact that we are a tiny minority in France may work in our favour.

However, I agree with MisterrSingh that because of the Islamic problem in France all other religions are made to suffer.

LePen if voted in will try to initiate Frexit. The integrity of the EU hinges on France/Germany.  

If France leaves, the EU project will be in jeopardy. 

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It just so happens that a police officer has been shot dead in Paris by a suspect that belongs to a particular ideology that bows to a particular city in the Arabian peninsula.

As well as people from this particular ideology that happen to run people over with trucks, or shoots people in nightclubs and cafes, create no go areas, regularly firebombs cars.

Just remember that there are  millions of non French origin people that may be poor with lack of opportunities that do not follow the Arabian city bowing ideology that do not do those things that I have mentioned above.

When people's from the Arab bowing ideology did things like this during the Khalsa Raj, we knew how Hari Singh Nalwa dealt with them.

The French have to deal with this menace with their hands tied behind their backs whilst trying to keep whatever structure of their nation intact.

Edited by Ranjeet01
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41 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

When people's from the Arab bowing ideology did things like this during the Khalsa Raj, we knew how Hari Singh Nalwa dealt with them.

I can't decide whether this hesitation to confront these ugly truths is an admirable form of optimism that would put even the most spiritually benevolent to shame, or it's a psychological infirmity that's paralysed their human predisposition for planning ahead in order to deal with all eventual outcomes. Whatever it is, their negligence will result in bloodshed. I don't understand why people cannot sense the simmering tensions that seem to get worse with each passing year. Something must give, and when it does it won't be pretty. 

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2 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I can't decide whether this hesitation to confront these ugly truths is an admirable form of optimism that would put even the most spiritually benevolent to shame, or it's a psychological infirmity that's paralysed their human predisposition for planning ahead in order to deal with all eventual outcomes. Whatever it is, their negligence will result in bloodshed. I don't understand why people cannot sense the simmering tensions that seem to get worse with each passing year. Something must give, and when it does it won't be pretty. 

It is cowardice. 

This is something Hindus did in centuries past. 

People think that if you fight back that somehow the enemy will come back harder. But by the same token, by doing nothing it further emboldens.

If this happened 50-60 years ago, people of this ideology would face some terrible repercussions.

If there is anything that will put Le Pen in power , this will.

According to reports, at least 51 percent of French police will vote for Le Pen.

The North African community in Europe is an extremely belligerent one. It is one that Europeans are very aware of from the Carthage days, the Moors, the Barbary coast.

Only the Spaniards in the 15th century and the Romans in the Punic Wars knew how to deal with them.

 

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4 hours ago, CHaamCHrick said:

http://dalkhalsa.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/eu-eu-court-endorses-ban-on-turban-w.html?m=1

I am not sure if they are going to ban the Sikh turban in the EU or the UK? Can someone please translate what is being said on the video. Why is no one talking about this in the gurdwaras or Sikh channels? 

When you asked if someone could translate the video, I thought it might be in French or something, but it was just in normal Punjabi. Don't take this the wrong way, but I would like to encourage you, friend, to learn Punjabi. There are a ton of resources on the Internet, not to mention just talking in Punjabi with your parents, starting with the absolute basics ("mera naam Chaamchrik hai"). Without Punjabi and Gurmukhi, we can't have a relation with our Guru.

We, as Sikhs, should no more countenance not learning Punjabi than we would countenance not learning English, which we wouldn't.

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24 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The North African community in Europe is an extremely belligerent one. It is one that Europeans are very aware of from the Carthage days, the Moors, the Barbary coast.

Only the Spaniards in the 15th century and the Romans in the Punic Wars knew how to deal with them.

 

When the likes of France decided to open their doors to the same third-world people they subjugated and oppressed in the name of colonialism, what on earth were they hoping would happen in the future? Sure, the same could be said for us and a few others, but i think our mentality is slightly different to the likes of the Algerians and others of that ilk. 

Was the collective guilt for WWII so immense that it destroyed all sense of pragmatism? 

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3 hours ago, kcmidlands said:

This all relates to France's obsession (and law) with banning religious symbols in schools and the workplace, it started with the banning of a full burka because it covered the face and any religious dress that cover's the full face.

I think this comes down to the difference in freedom in the Anglo-American sense (which is freedom to do what you want), and freedom in the French sense (freedom to do what the state wants you to do).

I believe the Anglo conception of freedom is more compatible with the Sikh sense since we did not pass any laws in the Sikh Raj forcing people to wear kanghas or karas (as far as I know).

There is a sense of discrimination in the French law, though, because only "ostentatious" symbols are banned, includinge "large" crosses. So what's a "large" cross? Something human-sized, like the one Jesus Christ was crucified on? And so "small" crosses would automatically be the size that Christians wore anyways.

Not only that, but there have been cases of principals of schools sanctioning (Muslim) girls for wearing long dresses, because, according to them, that's "ostentatious". Meanwhile, it's just fine for French-origin girls to wear whatever they want, including long dresses. By that theory, even if we take off our turbans, our long, uncut hair plus beards can be easily called an "ostentatious" religious display.

Finally, there's the issue of Christian nuns, which AFAIK, have not been sanctioned in any way. While acknowledging the problem of radical Islam, I bristle at the blatant discrimination of some Europeans while being blind to their own faith traditions of covering up or religious displays. Here's one Italian with a moderate view:

Quote

“We have nuns on the beach all the time,” Marco Beoni, a barista at a coffee bar along the sea near Sabaudia, about an hour south of Rome, told The Daily Beast. “They go in the water in their skirts and sit on blankets just like everyone else. Who cares what they are wearing. What’s the problem?” 

Then there's the issue of the burqini, which far-rightists and leftists are having trouble banning because it's basically a wet suit with a built-in cap. Since many pools are used for scuba instruction, it would seem extremely difficult to ban wet suits. The anti-burqini crowd delves into ridiculousness when it says it's banning burqinis because of "hygiene" reasons.

Does anybody know what "hygiene" reasons those could possibly be?

I think much of the anti-religion animus derives from the anti-religious tilt of the French revolution, whereas in other countries it is less so.

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10 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

When the likes of France decided to open their doors to the same third-world people they subjugated and oppressed in the name of colonialism, what on earth were they hoping would happen in the future? Sure, the same could be said for us and a few others, but i think our mentality is slightly different to the likes of the Algerians and others of that ilk. 

I think the reason for free immigration from Algeria was that France was maintaining the pretense that Algeria is just a part of France, and that moving from Algiers to Paris was no different than moving from Marseilles to Paris. They did have to give Algeria up at some point, maybe that would have been the time to deport the Algerians. 

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9 minutes ago, BhForce said:

I think the reason for free immigration from Algeria was that France was maintaining the pretense that Algeria is just a part of France, and that moving from Algiers to Paris was no different than moving from Marseilles to Paris. They did have to give Algeria up at some point, maybe that would have been the time to deport the Algerians. 

It was free movement from Algeria to France? Gosh, i never knew that. I assumed it was a similar immigration policy to the one the UK adopted for its former Eastern colonies. 

I'm not condoning current Algerian actions and attitudes, but from what I've read the French were despicably cruel when they were over there. It's quite horrific the extent to which they held power over those people and that country. All the more baffling as to why they'd be so magnanimous in allowing them access to France in such considerably huge numbers. Was it a desire to atone for past sins?

Edited by MisterrSingh

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5 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

It was free movement from Algeria to France? Gosh, i never knew that

"After the war, after Algeria gained its independence, the free circulation between France and Algeria was once again allowed, and the number of Algerian immigrants started to increase drastically. From 1962 to 1975, the Algerian immigrant population increased from 350,000 to 700,000."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_France

To be fair, many of them were supporters of France in the Algerian independence war, which made them "moderate" in the eyes of the French.

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no idea who this uncle ji is but to be honest, age does not equal wisdom.  unless from a direct eu rep or law union, its just hearsay and over exaggerated crap as usual

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29 minutes ago, RanjeetSingh said:

no idea who this uncle ji is but to be honest, age does not equal wisdom.

Jk's on you bro, Uncle ji is right.

29 minutes ago, RanjeetSingh said:

unless from a direct eu rep or law union, its just hearsay and over exaggerated crap as usual

Playing down future threats is what got our nation in our current predicament. I say it's great that Uncle ji is presenting future threats. In any case, seeing as you don't accept Uncle ji's word for it, you'll surely be able to accept the New York Times, no?

Ban on Head Scarves at Work Is Legal, E.U. Court Rules

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Le Pen when asked about Sikhs and the turban said something along the lines of 'Sikhs are a minority who we don't hear much from; which is a good thing'. Too tired to find the exact quote.

So yano... better pack your bags coz I think this Paris shooting may just have sealed the deal for Le Pen.

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From the decision:

"Legal experts said the court’s ruling could give greater leeway to employers across Europe to regulate religious attire in the workplace, as long as they did so with neutral policies that did not target Muslims."

So, a Sikh-owned firm could have a policy that you have to have uncut hair, beards, etc., plus cover your hair and so forth, have a kara, and tie a turban, and it would be OK, right? That would be neutral, too, right?

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1 minute ago, S4NGH said:

Le Pen when asked about Sikhs and the turban said something along the lines of 'Sikhs are a minority who we don't hear much from; which is a good thing'. Too tired to find the exact quote.

So yano... better pack your bags coz I think this Paris shooting may just have sealed the deal for Le Pen.

If that's an accurate quote, I surmise what she may be saying is "if you're not making trouble for France, then I don't have a problem with you". Sikhs are just going about their business, not driving semi-trucks into crowds.

If she is elected, I think what our peeps in France would have to do or should do is make a separate peace with the French government, not lumping themselves in with the Muslims. You have to deal with the government you have, not the government you want.

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16 minutes ago, BhForce said:

If that's an accurate quote, I surmise what she may be saying is "if you're not making trouble for France, then I don't have a problem with you". Sikhs are just going about their business, not driving semi-trucks into crowds.

If she is elected, I think what our peeps in France would have to do or should do is make a separate peace with the French government, not lumping themselves in with the Muslims. You have to deal with the government you have, not the government you want.

Here it is:

In response to the question if a Sikh person be allowed to wear a turban, Le Pen, head of the National Front, states, “No, not in public.  We don’t have a lot of Sikh people in France.  We don’t really hear much from them, or about them, which is good news.”

Our people have been trying to work with their government for a very long time. Twice they've taken them to the UN courts and won both times. All to no avail. Only two people exist in France; The native white French and the foreigner.

Edited by S4NGH

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6 minutes ago, S4NGH said:

Here it is:

In response to the question if a Sikh person be allowed to wear a turban, Le Pen, head of the National Front, states, “No, not in public.  We don’t have a lot of Sikh people in France.  We don’t really hear much from them, or about them, which is good news.”

Our people have been trying to work with their government for a very long time. Twice they've taken them to the UN courts and won both times. All to no avail. Only two people exist in France; The native white French and the foreigner.

wooow what a menopausal cow lol. 

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1 minute ago, S4NGH said:

Here it is:

In response to the question if a Sikh person be allowed to wear a turban, Le Pen, head of the National Front, states, “No, not in public.  We don’t have a lot of Sikh people in France.  We don’t really hear much from them, or about them, which is good news.”

OK, well the "not in public" changes the whole thing. In general, the feeling of the Left is that religion, if allowed at all, is something that is to be totally internal, and have no external manifestation whatsoever, not even to the extent of favoring one policy or another, certainly not to favoring one form of dress or another or one type of food or another. This feeling is deeply embedded in French thinking since its revolution, which is what Le Pen is defending, causing her to be mistakenly identified as a far-right candidate. In reality she is a strident nationalist leftist. People call her a conservative, but she is conserving the French revolution, which is leftist.

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12 minutes ago, BhForce said:

OK, well the "not in public" changes the whole thing. In general, the feeling of the Left is that religion, if allowed at all, is something that is to be totally internal, and have no external manifestation whatsoever, not even to the extent of favoring one policy or another, certainly not to favoring one form of dress or another or one type of food or another. This feeling is deeply embedded in French thinking since its revolution, which is what Le Pen is defending, causing her to be mistakenly identified as a far-right candidate. In reality she is a strident nationalist leftist. People call her a conservative, but she is conserving the French revolution, which is leftist.

Yeah my bad. My paraphrasing did very little justice. It's late and I couldn't be bothered finding the quote. Muafi ji.

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