Jacfsing2

How Missionary Jatha Got Influence?

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Thanks a lot BhForce Bhai Sahib.

Sikhs should be able to "agree to disagree" respectfully.

Our fundamental Unity should never be compromised over minor theological disagreements in the bigger scheme of things when all of us unitedly need to join forces to tackle the silent Genocide of female infanticide, drugs, cancer, biraderi apartheid, illiteracy and poverty afflicting our Panth.

If we are unable and too weak to theologically address concerns a fellow Sikh with a different interpretation or jatha affiliation might hold then how will we have the intellectual ability to politely rebutt the arguments from Christians, Muslims and Hindu's.

Those that argue for Dhadrianwale, Panthpreet, Dhunda, Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh to be killed for holding pro-Gurmat views need to look at the bigger picture of where Sikhs are currently standing at globally today.

We don't have the global Khalsa Fauj that Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj envisaged and indeed if the proliferation of Hindutva-funded Balmiki and Dera Ballan Mandirs is not tackled (with pyaar and re-integration) then we could be a minority in little east Punjab by as early as the 2021 census.

Edited by SinghSabha1699
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2 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Akalifauj are you flat out denying that the Hindu Kings genealogy is not stated in Bachittar Natak?

Bachittar Natak (Chapter 4)

Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji

ਰਿਖੰ ਭੇਸ ਕੀਯੰ ॥ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਯੰ ॥੫॥
रिखं भेस कीयं ॥ तिसै राज दीयं ॥५॥
He put on the garb of a sage (rishi) and gave his kingdom to the reciter (Amrit Rai)5.

ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਲੋਗੰ ॥ ਤਜੇ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਗੰ ॥
रहे होरि लोगं ॥ तजे सरब सोगं ॥
The people tried to tell the king not to do so, but, he had abandoned all sorrows.

ਧਨੰ ਧਾਮ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਾਗੇ ॥੬॥
धनं धाम तिआगे ॥ प्रभं प्रेम पागे ॥६॥
And leaving his wealth and property, absorbed himself in divine love.6.

ਅੜਿਲ ॥
अड़िल ॥
ARIL

ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥
बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥
Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon:

ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥
जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥
When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥
लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥
The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule.

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥
भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥
They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
चौपई ॥
CHAUPAI

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥
त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥
O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth, you gave away your kingdom.

ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥
तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥
When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in he fourth birth."9.

ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥
उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥
That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures.

ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊਂ ॥੧੦॥
कहा लगे करि कथा सुनाऊं ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अधिक डराऊं ॥१०॥
To what extent, I should narrate the story? It is feared that this book will become voluminous.10.

I don't translate this as a Hindu King genealogy, but rather talking about the physical ancestor of the Guru: (who is Ramchandar), not that it means anything other than ancestory. The light of Vaheguru revealed himself in the form body of a Bedi, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji), and in his 4th form and lasting till 10th form he was a Sodhi. Also when Guru Sahib refers to "Bedi Nanak", he's refering to himself and the Gur-Gaddi, (just how read those lines, if someone more educated than me wishes I'd be willing to hear any other views).

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1 hour ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

 

Don't feed the troll.  Ask poster jonny101 of this troll if you don't believe me.  He's got an agenda and that is to further slander Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji.  When he first came here, many tried educating him but he made up his mind before he came to this site.  He's on a mission to spread his hatred. 

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34 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I don't translate this as a Hindu King genealogy, but rather talking about the physical ancestor of the Guru: (who is Ramchandar), not that it means anything other than ancestory. The light of Vaheguru revealed himself in the form body of a Bedi, (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji), and in his 4th form and lasting till 10th form he was a Sodhi. Also when Guru Sahib refers to "Bedi Nanak", he's refering to himself and the Gur-Gaddi, (just how read those lines, if someone more educated than me wishes I'd be willing to hear any other views).

Brother JacfSingh2 Ji, remember that Hindutva and RSS forces are keen to push this genealogy of Dasam Pita as supposedly being a descendent of the Hindu God-King Ram Chander. However, in relation to what is stated in Bachittar Natak below it is not related to Ram Chander but the insinuation that GurGaddi was not chosen upon the basis of bibek buddhi and kamai between 1469-1708 but instead was divided up akin to a business deal in previous lives by a bunch of Hindu Kings enthralled by the Vedas.

Bachittar Natak (Chapter 4)

Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji

ਰਿਖੰ ਭੇਸ ਕੀਯੰ ॥ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਯੰ ॥੫॥
रिखं भेस कीयं ॥ तिसै राज दीयं ॥५॥
He put on the garb of a sage (rishi) and gave his kingdom to the reciter (Amrit Rai)5.

ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਲੋਗੰ ॥ ਤਜੇ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਗੰ ॥
रहे होरि लोगं ॥ तजे सरब सोगं ॥
The people tried to tell the king not to do so, but, he had abandoned all sorrows.

ਧਨੰ ਧਾਮ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਾਗੇ ॥੬॥
धनं धाम तिआगे ॥ प्रभं प्रेम पागे ॥६॥
And leaving his wealth and property, absorbed himself in divine love.6.

ਅੜਿਲ ॥
अड़िल ॥
ARIL

ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥
बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥
Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon:

ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥
जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥
When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥
लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥
The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule.

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥
भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥
They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
चौपई ॥
CHAUPAI

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥
त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥
O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth, you gave away your kingdom.

ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥
तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥
When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in he fourth birth."9.

ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥
उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥
That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures.

ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊਂ ॥੧੦॥
कहा लगे करि कथा सुनाऊं ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अधिक डराऊं ॥१०॥
To what extent, I should narrate the story? It is feared that this book will become voluminous.10.

Dr.  Baldev Singh from PA in his commentary states:

The next three chapters are about the ancestors of Guru Nanak Dev and Guru Gobind Singh. Both Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh are described as descendents of Sri Ram Chander, the mythical god who was a king in the mythical age of Treta.

His sons, Lav and Kush founded the City of Lahore and Kasur in Punjab, respectively, and ruled over there for a very long time.  Later on there was a war between their descendents. It was a long war. Shiv Ji with his army of ghosts and goblins witnessed the battle scenes.

The Lavis, who were then called Sodhis, defeated their rivals, the Kushis, who then ran away to Kashi. The Kushis were called Bedis after they learned to recite the four Vedas (sacred Hindu scriptures). 

Later on a Sodhi king sent an emissary to them with the message, “Let us forget the past; come back to Panjab.”  The Bedis came back and recited the Vedas to the Sodhi king.  All his sins were washed away after listening to the Vedas. 

The Sodhi king was so much pleased that as an act of gratitude he donated his kingdom to the Bedis.  This made the Bedi clan so happy that in return the head of the Bedi clan granted a boon to the Sodhi ex-king. “O pious one, when I will take birth in the age of Kaljug, I will make you worthy of world-wide veneration.  As you first listened to the first three Vedas and then donated your kingdom while listening to the fourth Veda, so I will transfer the Guruship to you after I have become Guru three times, consecutively.”

This absurd story is an affront to commonsense. 

The writer implies that Guru Nanak (Bedi) and the six Gurus (Sodhi), Ram Das to Gobind Singh became Gurus because their ancestors were very pious Hindus, who studied Vedas or were very generous to those who recited Vedas to them.  In other words, it was due to the blessing earned through the study of Vedas or the donation of kingdom to the reciter of Vedas, which was responsible for the reward of Guruship. 

On the contrary, Guru Angad Dev and Guru Amar Das acquired Guruship after they gave up their Hindu faith's study of the Vedas and other Hindu scriptures. No wonder, the writer does not mention their lineage or how did they earn the Guruship?

The writer does not know that belief in caste and lineage contradicts Guru Gobind Singh’s own edict of Kul Nash (freedom from lineage).  Besides, the first three Gurus did not come from a Bedi family, only Guru Nanak was born into a Bedi family, Gurus Angad Dev and Amardas were born in Trehan and Bhala clans respectively.

The writer also implies that Guru Angad Dev was the reincarnation of Guru Nanak and Guru Amardas was the reincarnation of Guru Angad Dev, but the first three Gurus were contemporaries and reincarnation takes place after the death of a person.

Edited by SinghSabha1699
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7 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Brother JacfSingh2 Ji, remember that Hindutva and RSS forces are keen to push this genealogy of Dasam Pita as supposedly being a descendent of the Hindu God-King Ram Chander. However, in relation to what is stated in Bachittar Natak below it is not related to Ram Chander but the insinuation that GurGaddi was not chosen upon the basis of bibek buddhi and kamai between 1469-1708 but instead was divided up akin to a business deal in previous lives by a bunch of Hindu Kings enthralled by the Vedas.

Bachittar Natak (Chapter 4)

Sri Dasam Guru Granth Sahib Ji

ਰਿਖੰ ਭੇਸ ਕੀਯੰ ॥ ਤਿਸੈ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਯੰ ॥੫॥
रिखं भेस कीयं ॥ तिसै राज दीयं ॥५॥
He put on the garb of a sage (rishi) and gave his kingdom to the reciter (Amrit Rai)5.

ਰਹੇ ਹੋਰਿ ਲੋਗੰ ॥ ਤਜੇ ਸਰਬ ਸੋਗੰ ॥
रहे होरि लोगं ॥ तजे सरब सोगं ॥
The people tried to tell the king not to do so, but, he had abandoned all sorrows.

ਧਨੰ ਧਾਮ ਤਿਆਗੇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭੰ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਾਗੇ ॥੬॥
धनं धाम तिआगे ॥ प्रभं प्रेम पागे ॥६॥
And leaving his wealth and property, absorbed himself in divine love.6.

ਅੜਿਲ ॥
अड़िल ॥
ARIL

ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥
बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥
Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon:

ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥
जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥
When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥
दोहरा ॥
DOHRA

ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥
लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥
The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule.

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥
भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥
They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥
चौपई ॥
CHAUPAI

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥
त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥
O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth, you gave away your kingdom.

ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥
तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥
When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in he fourth birth."9.

ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥
उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥
That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures.

ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਕਰਿ ਕਥਾ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊਂ ॥੧੦॥
कहा लगे करि कथा सुनाऊं ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अधिक डराऊं ॥१०॥
To what extent, I should narrate the story? It is feared that this book will become voluminous.10.

Dr.  Baldev Singh from PA in his commentary states:

The next three chapters are about the ancestors of Guru Nanak Dev and Guru Gobind Singh. Both Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh are described as descendents of Sri Ram Chander, the mythical god who was a king in the mythical age of Treta.

His sons, Lav and Kush founded the City of Lahore and Kasur in Punjab, respectively, and ruled over there for a very long time.  Later on there was a war between their descendents. It was a long war. Shiv Ji with his army of ghosts and goblins witnessed the battle scenes.

The Lavis, who were then called Sodhis, defeated their rivals, the Kushis, who then ran away to Kashi. The Kushis were called Bedis after they learned to recite the four Vedas (sacred Hindu scriptures). 

Later on a Sodhi king sent an emissary to them with the message, “Let us forget the past; come back to Panjab.”  The Bedis came back and recited the Vedas to the Sodhi king.  All his sins were washed away after listening to the Vedas. 

The Sodhi king was so much pleased that as an act of gratitude he donated his kingdom to the Bedis.  This made the Bedi clan so happy that in return the head of the Bedi clan granted a boon to the Sodhi ex-king. “O pious one, when I will take birth in the age of Kaljug, I will make you worthy of world-wide veneration.  As you first listened to the first three Vedas and then donated your kingdom while listening to the fourth Veda, so I will transfer the Guruship to you after I have become Guru three times, consecutively.”

This absurd story is an affront to commonsense. 

The writer implies that Guru Nanak (Bedi) and the six Gurus (Sodhi), Ram Das to Gobind Singh became Gurus because their ancestors were very pious Hindus, who studied Vedas or were very generous to those who recited Vedas to them.  In other words, it was due to the blessing earned through the study of Vedas or the donation of kingdom to the reciter of Vedas, which was responsible for the reward of Guruship. 

On the contrary, Guru Angad Dev and Guru Amar Das acquired Guruship after they gave up their Hindu faith's study of the Vedas and other Hindu scriptures. No wonder, the writer does not mention their lineage or how did they earn the Guruship?

The writer does not know that belief in caste and lineage contradicts Guru Gobind Singh’s own edict of Kul Nash (freedom from lineage).  Besides, the first three Gurus did not come from a Bedi family, only Guru Nanak was born into a Bedi family, Gurus Angad Dev and Amardas were born in Trehan and Bhala clans respectively.

The writer also implies that Guru Angad Dev was the reincarnation of Guru Nanak and Guru Amardas was the reincarnation of Guru Angad Dev, but the first three Gurus were contemporaries and reincarnation takes place after the death of a person.

Before we actually continue any further and me giving my view on this: do you believe in Dasam Granth?

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16 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

The majority of the Panth hold these pro-Gurmat views as espoused by Dhadrianwale, Panthpreet, Dhunda, Dhapali, Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh etc. The majority of the Panth does not want to see Bachittar Natak placed parallel alongside Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj at Gurdwara's as was done so until the liberation of Gurdwara's from the control of Hindu Mahants. The majority of the Panth rejects the assertion that our Guru Sahibaan were Hindu Kings from only two clans in their alleged previous lives.

The majority? What survey have you done to see where the majority lie?

 

If these miss nari cretins had the support of the majority, why did they not win the Delhi Gurdwara elections ? Sarna gave these fools total freedom to spew venom against Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth for years, but Banta Singh and Gurpreet Singh undid all their stupidity in 6 months. Now tell me where the majority of the Panth stands?

 

As for parallel parkash, it has been done for centuries at various places, iniitiated by Sikhs who knew far more about Gurmat than you or I or your miss nari role models ever will, so it is good enough for me. It will never change no matter how many lies you or dhundlu tell.

 

16 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Not at all - the pro-Sikhi pro-SGGS Khalsa Panth alliance of pro-Gurmat parcharaks like Dhadrianwale and Panthpreet that you term as missionaries emphasise that practical actions for the benefit of humanity are the most true form of naam simran as opposed to sitting down and counting how many times one can repeat Vaheguru according to a reward system allocated by the Dera Mukhi depending on the numbers of times of repetition without contemplation and without any accompanying action to uplift those less fortunate.

 

The three main principles of Gurmat, are naam Simran Krit krni and wand shakna. But Naam SImran is the bedrock of the other two. Your gurus want to deny naam simran and call it silly names and discourage other Sikhs from doing naam simran as well. No Sikh Dera mukhi allocates anything to anyone whorepeats Naam. Only Waheguru does. Sant Dhanrianwale always used to do naam simran until recently. maybe he has been infected with gandpreets venom as well.

 

17 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Please give one example of where Dhadrianwale, Panthpreet, Dhunda, Dhapali, Shaheed Bhai Bhupinder Singh (murdered by DDT) have stated that the Khalsa Panth should not keep kes. Kala Afghana is one man who has nothing to do with centuries old pro-Gurmat pro-Sikh pro-SGGS views held by the Khalsa Panth all the way since 1699.

 

yet your precious dhundla along witrh the other miss naris use kali faghanis books as the only resource for sikhi.

 

17 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Let's examine your claims about Nanaksar, Taksal and the Dals:

 

yes let's. I'm talking about the instituions, not the people within them. If you want to talk about people in them look at the rapist kali faghani, the bus condiuctor who stole money and was sacked - jeonwala, the electircity board employee who stole from his employers - inder ghuggu, let's talk about ghuggus daughter who whilst unmarried got pregnant from a man who marriage she destroyed.

 

17 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Sikhi is all about social welfare. What we do as Sikhs to uplift those within the Qaum and others who are suffering is 99% of what Sikhi is about. The pro-Gurmat camp are at the forefront of attacking the silent Genocide via female infanticide, drugs, cancer, biraderi apartheid, poverty, illiteracy and long may that continue.

 

No it is not. Sikhi is all about living in hukam. We have a duty to live by ALL aspects of sikhi, including Naam Simran, Krit karni and vand shakna. If the so-called "pro-gurmat" camp wanted to tackle these socials evils with a sincere heart then they would have without attacking anyone.

 

Who did Bhai Ghaneya attack? No-one, he worked for the scial welfare of all.

 

Who haven't the miss naris attacked? No-one, everyone and every Sikh institution bar themselves is a target. You want to eradicate femlae infanticide by creating shanka over Naam Simran, Amrit, Dasam Granth, Nanaksar? You will never win.

 

17 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

But all that's being requested is ... Just let the ordinary pro-Gurmat majority of Sangat with the likes of Panthpreet and Dhadrianwale et al who believe in ikko Guru Maneyo Granth to try focus on the silent Genocide affecting our Qaum re drugs, infanticide, cancer, declining fertility, poverty, biraderi apartheid without killing them as fellow Sikhs.

 

Why shouldn't gandpreet and dhundla just focus on social welfare then? The day they gain their senses they will stop attacking other Sikhs and Sikh institutions and focus on what needs to be done. How is insulting others fighting infanticide drugs etc?

 

17 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

You misunderstand bir'ay. To each his own thing. If Damdami Taksal want to kill fellow Sikhs and propagate that ideology that's your choice. If you want to organise flight tours to Pakistan so that the Pakistani descendents responsible for the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs can earn hard earned money off Sikhs while our Qaum are dying from lack of money to fight infanticide, drugs, poverty, cancer etc then that's fine.

 

Bi-ray, then shut your damned mouth and keep your black nose out of other people's affairs and concentrate on what you need to do Bi-ray.

 

 

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16 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Sikhs should be able to "agree to disagree" respectfully.

 

But should Siksh tell open lies on a Sikh forum? Time and time again you have said that Taksal openly canvassed for Congress Party votes in 1980 elections. Time and time again i have asked you to provide any evidence for you claim. Time and time again, you refuse but repeat the same allegation. Bi-ray why won't you answer?

 

14 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

However, in relation to what is stated in Bachittar Natak below it is not related to Ram Chander but the insinuation that GurGaddi was not chosen upon the basis of bibek buddhi and kamai between 1469-1708 but instead was divided up akin to a business deal in previous lives by a bunch of Hindu Kings enthralled by the Vedas.

 

The first three gurgaadi passings were based on hukam. Those that obeyed the Guru were supreme. You and your bibek budhi nonsense here. If Bhai lehna had used Bibek Budhi, he would never have climbed the tree to pick sweets, Bhai Lehna would never have agreed with Guru Nanak that it was nightime when it was daytime. Nor was kamai any part of it. Baba Budha never had kamai? Why didn't Baba Budha become next Guru ?

 

You aren't fooling anyone here with your rubbish bi'ray.

 

Try readiing about gurmat and history from better sources rather than your american council chump baldev.

 

6 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Before we actually continue any further and me giving my view on this: do you believe in Dasam Granth?

 

He doesn't beleive in gurmat, never Dasam Granth. he is a darshan panthi.

 

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On 22/04/2017 at 10:56 PM, genie said:

Parchaarik means missionary there's no difference really ones in punjabi other in english.

The uneducated low IQ indians and illiterate Sikhs in punjab are going around defaming the term missionary in an attempt to be politically correct and not to show intolerance to christians and muslim missionaries so they generalise their attack on the word "missionary" rather than attacking the individual anti-sikh abrahmic and personality cult missionaries

We need proudly say we are Sikh missionaries. I have personally made it my mission to convert non-sikhs from their backward and filth ideologies. I have made social media posts, help share inspirational sikh convert videos and many other forms of propaganda to help people embrace Sikhi from islam and Christianity mostly.

I'm going to be focusing hindu extremists next I want to target the hindu extremists hard where it hurts and convert their ignorant monkey and cow worshipping people from their filthy evil anti-sikh and anti-khalistan ideologies.

preacher is a better word than missionary because we do not have a MISSION to gain something for ourselves by changing others but by expounding the word of Truth and giving guidance on how to live better without knocking the people. Missionaries tend to approach it from a we are right/better, you are hellbound kind of mentality , which feeds the ego: a dangerous activity . 

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