Mahakaal96

Why Muslims should never be trusted

77 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

I mean the very title of the post is why Muslims should never be trusted... 

It's really not that difficult 

and who said anything about Sheikh Farid ji ? besides the fact he had risen above the label of 'muslim'  by gaining union with Akal Purakh just as all the Bhagats ... you are being rather silly to even suggest what you did ... which Sikh would disrespect His Guru this way ???  
Muslims who claim loyalty to a concocted history , a unsubstantiated quran  ...a mission to build a world empire rather than earning closeness to Allah by ibadat and realising haqiqat... are not trustworthy Guru Gobind SIngh ji our father said so , and it has played out that way .

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10 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

@jkvlondon hope that cleared things up for you 

I was not the one in confusion 

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1 minute ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

I asked a simple question since you insist on answering on behalf someone else.. Please answer me this if as has been asserted in the title muslims should never be trusted does that mean that contributions by Muslim bhagats such as Baba farid who clearly identified themselves as Muslim albeit sufi and not literalist technocrats such as Aurangzeb should also not be trusted. If you agree with the statement muslims should not be trusted then that would suggest you would disregard the bani of Baba farid if however you agree Baba farid was a Muslim and his bani is truthful then that necessarily means you disagree with the proposition Muslims should never be trusted.. It's a hypothetical question designed to test the logic of the assertion being made.. 

So do you trust Muslims or don't you? Or do you as I believe the very statement is ridiculous because as was pointed out earlier make a blanket statement such as the one made.. 

What the statement demonstrates is a irrational prejudice, homogenized a diverse group of people with different approaches to a religious philosophy.. 

Your turn simple question spelt out for @jkvlondon what is your answer? Should Muslims never be trusted? 

 

I have qualified who I consider applies under the non-trust issue , it is just the same for any one from any group, trust has to be earnt not demanded. I bow to Guru ji and Bhagat Bani is part of Guru ji so moot point ...I can read gurmukhi and I can definitely say Farid ji's voice is no different in my eyes than Guru Sahiban's . The average Muslim person is light years away from Him ... I trust Farid ji because his bani was selected and approved by my Guru ji - simple. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

 

Incidentally Baba farids bani is the oldest bani within SGGS 

do you know which Farid wrote it ? because there was more than one,  besides Ong is the oldest part of bani 

Edited by jkvlondon

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18 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Should we remove the bani of Baba farid ji from ggsj? 

When did you become a troll?

 

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21 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Should we remove the bani of Baba farid ji from ggsj? 

Baba Farid Ji were non-Muslim and a true Gurmukh. 

Sufi and Muslim are mutually exclusive terms though nowadays the false misnomer term of so-called Sufi Muslims has arisen as a response to Muslim persecution of non-Muslim Sufi's in their societies.

Baba Farid Ji were from a Sufi background however it is crucial to realise that they were non-Muslim. As whilst Sufi's believe in one God (who may be called Allah or other True Names like SatNaam) true Sufi's reject the role model of Muhammad on account of the Prophet being an unabashed terrorist, murderer, slaveowner and paedophile as is universally well documented. 

True Sufi's (ie Gurmukhs) like Baba Farid Ji Maharaj reject terrorism, slavery, paedophilia and the like. True Muslims regrettably have to state in shahada that Prophet Muhammad is the best role for humanity in eternity.

Thus I hope you clearly see that Baba Farid Ji Maharaj were not Muslim.

And hence JKVLondon was merely saying that ... those who actively feel slavery, terrorism, paedophilia, murder of innocents are acceptable actions as promoted in Islam and the Quran ... are indeed people to be somewhat cautious of.

 

 

 

 

Edited by SinghSabha1699
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3 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Lol what a joke... You a bhangra star cause you sure know how to dance! 

the only joke is you don't understand what you are told

As Bro has explained and I have, SHeikh Farid ji was a sufi Bhagat and did loads of non-muslim things like singing and dancing in rapture of Akal Purakh  so no Sufis are not tied to the muslim faith but searching for the creator through bhagti of myriad forms that's why they also took Guru Nanak Dev ji's bani also into their embrace 

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Just now, Sukhvirk76 said:

Lol so now your an expert on Islam.. It makes perfect sense your world view is wahhabist putting people in narrow little boxes... 

Baba farid predates guru nanak by about 200 years 

How funny that you're opinions are congruence to the bigots, Pakistan taliban who view sufis as heretics.. He's not Muslim because he sings and dance.. 

Keep going Bro keep digging 

Moorakh 

Fariduddin shakarganj is the first Farid ji but the one that met Guru ji was Farid the second .

Sufis say themselves their roots are deeper than islam ...read and educate yourself :

http://sufiway.org/about-us/the-origins-of-sufism

I can respect true seekers of all denominations, shame you cannot ...

I know about dancing , singing even art restrictions because of muslim classmates when growing up ...so grow yourself 

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go hug a jihadi and tell me how that goes ... 

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9 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

You are one! 

When did you become troll?  Why are you running away from this question.  Can't answer a simple question and he wants to speak on Bhagat Farid ji.

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3 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Paji baba farid ji self identified as a Muslim. 

Troll, you have no proof of this.  No Shabad in Gurbani claims any Bhagat was Muslim.  You are a liar and cheat.

Answer the question.  When did you become a trol

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4 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

As I said he self identified as a Muslim, why don't you go study some more about him.. This is ridiculous! 

Dimwitt, his shabads in Gurbani would say so the Gurus shabads would have said so.  Either never did.

Answer the question troll, when did you become a troll?

Edited by Akalifauj

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Just now, Sukhvirk76 said:

I became a troll right after you became a nindak. 

Happy now! 

Seriously what a douche 

Troll, you have no gyan.  I showed that in a few words.  

Douche and nindak is someone who claims something without proof.  That makes you douche and nindak.  Again answer my question troll, when did you become a troll?

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3 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Lol I have plenty of proof you are a nindak so once you figure out exactly when you became one add 1sec to it and precisely at that point I became a troll! 

The troll has nothing.  Not going to waste anymore words on a troll.  

 

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from historical references and Gurbani,  I am confident that our Guru would not force this mayor to matha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji....respect for all but follow your own?

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11 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Paji baba farid ji self identified as a Muslim, I agree that the sufi approach to Islam is different than mainstream sunni but nonetheless is Muslim. Sufism rejects the dominant interpretation and practices of mainstream Islam believing that the core message is corrupted by literalism and absolutism leads people away from the core message.. Something which guru nanaks jis message was congruent with.. That institutionalized or organised religion leads people to become obsessed with identity politics and something we should transcend.. I.e tisar panth a third way one in which we lose our ego's recognise the oneness of all creation. 

 

Not at all brother. Mere acceptance of one God (who may be called Allah, Ram or Vaheguru or other True Names interchangably) does not mean that Dhan Dhan Baba Farid Ji Maharaj self-identified as a Muslim.

In order to be Muslim the second line of the Muslim shahada referring to Prophet Muhammad is compulsory. True Sufi's (like Baba Farid Ji Maharaj) being the non-Muslims they are obviously wholeheartedly reject the Prophet Muhammad on account of the well documented and universally acknowledged acts of terrorism, slavery, genocide, paedophilia and misogyny that the Prophet openly engaged in without remorse. Remember in Pakistan the Muslims make the similarly false allegation that Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj were Muslim.

Think about it logically Paji. Can we as tisar panth ever sit comfortable when such an accusation is labelled against one of our greatest Gurmukhs (who were so blessed that they authored the Truth of Gurbani)!? Accusing Baba Farid Ji Maharaj of being Muslim is the most vile accusation thinkable for a Sikh to read. Though to be fair to you I don't believe you meant it to insult to them as much as myself and perhaps Akalifauj may have perceived.

This myth that Baba Farid Ji Mahraj were Muslim needs to be destroyed. The nonsensical belief that the 1st Sikh in history (Bhai Mardana Ji) despite being the most ardent Guru ka Sikh somehow should be labelled as a non-Sikh is horrible to read (not that you have said this - but others mistakenly have). And similarly in relation to Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj who positively despised the falsehood of Islam (and yet are somehow labelled as belonging to beliefs that they repeatedly exposed as falsehoods). And it's crucial we do not inadvertently sully the great names of Gurmukhs who rejected terrorism, slavery, genocide, paedophilia and misogyny as openly glorified in the Holy Quran.

 

Edited by SinghSabha1699
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Pfft, the imam's probably undercover Mossad. Or he's exhibiting internalised Islamophobia. Everything's fine. Don't worry.

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3 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Totally agree to force someone to matha tek would be no better than forcing someone to convert 

Agreed. Even a lot of Amritdharis don``t even matha tek when they go to the mandir. & why is there no like button for me to click regarding your posts?? 

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20 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

absolutism leads people away from the core message.

It's a shame you fell to this exact same thing when reading the original post. When Guru Gobind Singh Ji warned us not to trust the word of a Muslim, mahraj made that statement in the hope that most of his sikhs would have enough budhi (intellect) to know which Muslims that statement would apply to & not be of low intellect where they start applying that warning to Bhagats. 

 How many sikhs do you think have come across a genuine Muslim bhagat in their lives & wondered if that warning should apply to them?? Mahraj knew exactly the type of Muslims we would be dealing with hence the warning. 

Anyone reading Bhagat Farid Ji's Bani can clearly see that taqqiya is not being deployed even remotely.... Bhagat jis Bani is inline with gurmat and therefore beyond any doubt or suspicion.

Edited by Mahakaal96

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17 hours ago, Preeet said:

Agreed. Even a lot of Amritdharis don``t even matha tek when they go to the mandir. & why is there no like button for me to click regarding your posts?? 

Amritdharis dont go to mandirs. As for the thread I think making a blanket statement like that is pretty stupid and Guru Gobind Singh Ji never said that ALL muslims should never be trusted. Like it or not there are some muslims who are great human beings ofcourse there also are alot of bad ones(perhaps even out of porportion to other quams except hindus) and we should never forget that but that doesnt mean we become obsessed with them.

Edited by ThunderousDominator

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1 minute ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Harmandir? Lol 

What a ridiculous statement, if guru nanak dev ji traveled to all religious sites and respected them all even kaaba sharif then why wouldn't a amritdhari have a problem going to a mandir? No one is asking them to do Pooja to a moorti,? 

Would amritdharis also refuse to go to a church? 

Harmandir sahib is a gurudwara not a mandir I know your not this stupid stop playing with words. Idol worship is against sikhi no ifs ands or buts about it I know you know this too why else would u go to a mandir if u wernt gna practise idol worship? If a hindu freind invites a sikhi to mandir for a function or event than aslong as he doesnt worship a rock I have no problem with it if he shows up just to show his face out of respect for the invite however worshiping any idol is completey against sikhi. 

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6 hours ago, ThunderousDominator said:

Amritdharis dont go to mandirs. As for the thread I think making a blanket statement like that is pretty stupid and Guru Gobind Singh Ji never said that ALL muslims should never be trusted. Like it or not there are some muslims who are great human beings ofcourse there also are alot of bad ones(perhaps even out of porportion to other quams except hindus) and we should never forget that but that doesnt mean we become obsessed with them.

Im an Amritdhari and I go to Mandirs (like 2-3 times a year), also when people do Sri Hazur Sahib ji`s yatra, they also visit the Jyotirling Mandir which was SPUN by God for Namdev ji. So many amritdharis go to that mandir to look at the mehima of what happened. Also in my city, the Gurdwara does a langar at the Mandir during dusshera. You will be surprised when you see the number of dumalla wearing Amritdharis there. During dusshera, I can positively say there are more Sikhs at my city`s Mandir than sari wearing hindus (which is not wrong). 

For example, look at this Jyotirling Mandir`s sarovar.. you can see Sikhs bathing in it:

 10:28 11:23

Edited by Preeet

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4 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Harmandir? Lol 

What a ridiculous statement, if guru nanak dev ji traveled to all religious sites and respected them all even kaaba sharif then why wouldn't a amritdhari have a problem going to a mandir? No one is asking them to do Pooja to a moorti,? 

Would amritdharis also refuse to go to a church? 

Exactly, the real name is Hari Mandir. I wish I can like your posts, but there is no option for me to like them lol.

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13 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

The quip at the beginning of my response was exactly that. And since it is called Harmandir or rather har mandir it is technically a mandir which is a generic term for a place of worship in North India it is not specific to any religion although I agree it is not used as much within the Sikh lexicon. However Har mandir does mean the temple of har. 

I also in my post clarified that there is no problem going to a mandir for a Sikh to be respectful but not engage in idol worship 

Should sikhs refrain from going to any other place of worship other than a gurudwaras 

Mandir has many meanings, it can also mean Place, dwelling etc not just temple. 

 

@Mahakaal96 Your thread speaks the truth, but I wonder if you'd be able to upload the verses directly from the Quran online or something. A-lot of people think the website you linked is rather well biased. I'm not fluent in the scripture so I can't do it myself.

Edited by Kira
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2 hours ago, Kira said:

@Mahakaal96 Your thread speaks the truth, but I wonder if you'd be able to upload the verses directly from the Quran online or something. A-lot of people think the website you linked is rather well biased. I'm not fluent in the scripture so I can't do it myself.

The website he uploaded from is biased; however, everything that was said is legit. Guru Sahib himself said not to trust any oaths of the Quran in Zafarnama.

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