Mahakaal96

Why Muslims should never be trusted

67 posts in this topic

To all my sikh brothers & sisters on this site... there is no point in talking to a Muslim & there is certainly no point in ever trusting anything that comes out of their mouths! 

They consider us as Kafirs (non believers) and therefore are permitted under the laws of Islam to practice what is known as 'TAQIYYA' when having any dealing with us.

I urge you all to research & learn about TAQIYYA for yourself but have added some info below.

Also remember that Guru Gobind Singh Ji explicitly said the word of a Muslim is never to be trusted. Remember how the lowly dogs of Aurugzebs army swore oaths on the Quran but then broke them at the first chance at Anandpur & how Guru Sahib exposed their treacherous ways. It is in their blood to lie & deceive.

TAQIYYA

Deception, Lying 
and Taqiyya

 

Does Islam permit Muslims to lie? 

Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. 

Quran

Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Quran (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim should appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel that way..

Quran (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.  (The next verse refers only to those who have a personal agreement with Muhammad as individuals - see Ibn Kathir (vol 4, p 49)

Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" 

Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.

Hadith and Sira

Sahih Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Sahih Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy."

Sahih Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."

Sahih Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.

From Islamic Law:

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...  (See the Permissible Lying section on the Sharia page for more)

"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie."

Notes

Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them. There are several forms:

Taqiyya - Saying something that isn't true as it relates to the Muslim identity.

Kitman - Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32(that if anyone kills "it shall be as if he had killed all mankind") while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of "corruption" and "mischief." 

Tawriya - Intentionally creating a false impression.

Muruna - 'Blending in' by setting aside some practices of Islam or Sharia in order to advance others.

Though not called taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later. Some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed. 

Another example of lying is when Muhammad used deception to trick his personal enemies into letting down their guard and exposing themselves to slaughter by pretending to seek peace. This happened in the case of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf (as previously noted) and again later against Usayr ibn Zarim, a surviving leader of the Banu Nadir tribe, which had been evicted from their home in Medina by the Muslims.

At the time, Usayr ibn Zarim was attempting to gather an armed force against the Muslims from among a tribe allied with the Quraish (against which Muhammad had already declared war). Muhammad's "emissaries" went to ibn Zarim and persuaded him to leave his safe haven on the pretext of meeting with the prophet of Islam in Medina to discuss peace. Once vulnerable, the leader and his thirty companions were massacred by the Muslims with ease, probably because they were unarmed - having been given a guarantee of safe passage (Ibn Ishaq 981).

Such was the reputation of Muslims for lying and then killing that even those who "accepted Islam" did not feel entirely safe. Consider the fate of the Jadhima. When Muslim "missionaries" approached their tribe, one of the members insisted that they would be slaughtered even though they had already "converted" to Islam to avoid just such a demise. However, the others believed they could trust the Muslim leader's promise that they would not be harmed if they simply offered no resistance. (After convincing the skeptic to lay down his arms, the unarmed men of the tribe were quickly tied up and beheaded - Ibn Ishaq 834 & 837).
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If you want an example to analyse you can't go wrong with our mayor in London UK Sadiq Khan.

in may of 2016:

http://barusahib.org/general/sadiq-khan-londons-new-mayor-makes-promises-to-the-sikhs/

this weekend, after making sangat hang around for an hour he turns up , refuses to go upstairs in Gurdwara , but stays in langar hall then this  :

Sikhs in the UK hand letter to London Mayor Sadiq Khan at Southall Nagar Kirtan (ਸਾਊਥਹਾਲ ਨਗਰ ਕੀਰਤਨ)
~ concerns across Sikh community regarding mixing cultural and religious aspects of separate significance threatens to overshadow Trafalgar Square celebrations

Having visited whilst electioneering as a Mayoral candidate, it was being stated by several committee members that current Mayor of London Sadiq Khan was the first mayor to return after winning an election, when he returned today before the annual Nagar Kirtan, which was delayed due to his late arrival, forcing thousands of members of the community to wait unnecessarily.

If that wasn't bad enough, the claim itself was dubious as Ken livingstone had actually returned to Southall Singh Sabha four times and did Matha Tek as a mark of respect to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, which Sadiq Khan did not do.

Instead Khan walked around the Langar Hall and as he was doing so was approached by Sdr Inderjeet Singh, who handed the Mayor of London a letter that outlines the concerns of the UK sikh community.

As the letter was handed to Sadiq Khan, whilst appearing to be initially reluctant to accept the document he then briskly took it and handed it to an aide.

Such perceived arrogance or nonchalance was quickly countered by the former Downing St policy supremo Inderjeet Singh with a firm, "...is that how you respect our community?".

Khan hastened to move away without either addressing, allaying or commenting on the Vaisakhi in the Square event or the concerns expressed.

The letter in full (actual delivered copy in comments):

Dear Mr. Sadiq Khan,

Re: GLA - Vaisakhi Festival 2017

We write to thank you for continuing the Mayor of London’s support to celebrate Vaisakhi, an event that was first started by Ken Livingstone in 2000. However, we are extremely disturbed at the proposed content, as this year’s programme appears to pay little regard to religious values by including an insensitive mix of religious, cultural and commercial entertainment. If this affront to the Sikh nation on its most auspicious religious occasion is not addressed before the event, it will do more damage than good and bring into disrepute a celebration that would otherwise be a joyous celebration and opportunity to promote community cohesion.

We request you to intervene by directing the project team to not have a Vaisakhi programme that has both the cultural and religious significance of Vaisakhi in the same event. As you will be aware from your many visits to Sikh Gurwara’s, Vaisakhi to Sikhs is an event that relates to the most prominent day in the Sikh faith when the “Khalsa Panth” was established by the 10th Guru of the Sikhs (Guru Gobind Singh), in 1699.

The desire of Sikhs that Vaisakhi is not ‘culturalised’ or ‘commercialised’ is no different from the desire of Muslims to keep celebration of Eid holy. Nor is it different from the desire of Christians that Christmas be celebrated as the birth of Christ. We are sure that you will want to do the right thing for all religious and faith communities of London and those of none, in progressing the policies of your administration at City Hall.

For any further information, you and/or your officals may wish to contact us, to make the GLA proposed Vasisakhi Festival in 2017, a great success.

Wishing you and the GLA a happy Vaisakhi.

Signed.

 
 
 
Edited by jkvlondon

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To be fair your average muslim isn't the lying scheming scumbag that you cant trust completely. I knew many good muslims as I was growing up and I knew many bad muslims. It all depends on how missionary or zealous the muslim is, so if you know they dont give a crap much about their religion then they usually quite reasonable to get along with.

However you should be cautious and on your guard when dealing with one as they are explicitly taught to hate on the non-muslim so are indoctrinated and brainwashed by birth (usually) to do so. Even if they not that religious they will get bullied by their family and friends to "get back on deen" and thats when they start to become extreme in their faith. It doesnt mean they are all like that way inclined but most have a negative view of non-muslims and even muslims of other sects who they view as apostates and heretics.

As for London mayor Mr Khan not going up to bow down to SGGS Ji then that's fair enough we dont expect non-believers to matah tak to Guru Ji just as we wouldnt expect to read out the Kalma of islam.

However the vaisakhi program in trafalgar sq should be purely based on Sikh religious ideology and not a punjabi cultural show with non-sikhs running the show or contributing non-sikh stuff. Just as we wouldnt expect the same for EID festival and the subsequent muslim event they hold putting on non-islamic cultural stuff on.

 

 

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Sadiq Khan is a muppet, after the London Terror attacks his first thought was that no one dare blame Islam, rather than sending out a tweet in support for the poor souls who died he started on about how people are using it to attack Islam....he then deleted the tweet because it got so much hate. 

Utter muppet, if the tories hadn't put up such a moronic candidate he'd have lost. Period.

Edited by Kira

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The way most of you allow that lurking YoYo to talk to you is contemptible. He's obviously bristling with hostility towards Sikhs, and he comes on here throwing his weight around, whilst some of you are, "Brother, brother, brother." What the hell is wrong with you people? 

Edited by MisterrSingh

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6 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

If you want an example to analyse you can't go wrong with our mayor in London UK Sadiq Khan.

To be fair even even Muslims can't stand him so to expect him to show any grace or decorum when visiting a Gurdwara is a bit of a stretch.

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

The way most of you allow that lurking YoYo to talk to you is contemptible. He's obviously bristling with hostility towards Sikhs, and he comes on here throwing his weight around, whilst some of you are, "Brother, brother, brother." What the hell is wrong with you people? 

Spot on. In general sikhs are a very honest, non discriminating, trustworthy & friendly people who treat everyone equal regardless of religion etc... however the rest of humanity is not like that & we need to smarten up.

Muslims are the worst because it is quite simply a part of their belief that everyone is not equal.. and that those who are not Muslim (kafirs) can be lied to, exploited, raped & even killed without the risk of any retribution from god.... there's a reason why Guru Gobind Singh Ji exposed their lieing & deceitful ways at Anandpur Sahib when the Muslim swore oaths on the Koran only to then break them at the first available oppurtunity. Guru Sahib did that to open our eyes & to make us aware.

I urge all my brothers & sisters on this site to be more aware, cautious & extremely careful when having any kind of dealing with any Muslim. It's a testament to the greatness of our Guru that we as a community are very tolerant & respectful towards all... but our Guru also taught us to be budhi maan (of discerning intellect) & raj neetic (politically aware).

Edited by Mahakaal96
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16 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Spot on. In general sikhs are a very honest, non discriminating, trustworthy & friendly people who treat everyone equal regardless of religion etc... however the rest of humanity is not like that & we need to smarten up.

Muslims are the worst because it is quite simply a part of their belief that everyone is not equal.. and that those who are not Muslim (kafirs) can be lied to, exploited, raped & even killed without the risk of any retribution from god.... there's a reason why Guru Gobind Singh Ji exposed their lieing & deceitful ways at Anandpur Sahib when the Muslim swore oaths on the Koran only to then break them at the first available oppurtunity. Guru Sahib did that to open our eyes & to make us aware.

I urge all my brothers & sisters on this site to be more aware, cautious & extremely careful when having any kind of dealing with any Muslim. It's a testament to the greatness of our Guru that we as a community are very tolerant & respectful towards all... but our Guru also taught us to be budhi maan (of descerning intellect) & raj neetic (politically aware).

Those labouring under certain illusions won't heed the message until they experience the fruits of their folly. The same goes for much of wider society. Sikhs, particularly those from the younger generations in the West, have been disarmed into believing a dangerous lie, and the alarming thing is Sikh teachings have been twisted to promote that lie. The truth as it pertains to the reality of Muslims and their beliefs is no secret. If some of our own choose to cling to the "Not All Muslims" narrative, or, "I knew some cool Muslims back in the day" method of dealing with the threat before their eyes by refusing to acknowledge such a threat exists, then all i can say is "good luck" because they'll need it; lots of it. 

I don't wish ill upon the average Muslim. I'm a compassionate and tolerant person by default. That doesn't mean I'm going to bury my hand into a nest of vipers and hope they don't bite. 

Edited by MisterrSingh

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

Those labouring under certain illusions won't heed the message until they experience the fruits of their folly. The same goes for much of wider society. Sikhs, particularly those from the younger generations in the West, have been disarmed into believing a dangerous lie, and the alarming thing is Sikh teachings have been twisted to promote that lie. The truth as it pertains to the reality of Muslims and their beliefs is no secret. If some of our own choose to cling to the "Not All Muslims" narrative, or, "I knew some cool Muslims back in the day" method of dealing with the threat before their eyes by refusing to acknowledge such a threat exists, then all i can say is "good luck" because they'll need it; lots of it. 

I don't wish ill upon the average Muslim. I'm a compassionate and tolerant person by default. That doesn't mean I'm going to bury my hand into a nest of vipers and hope they don't bite. 

agreed , That's why where I can see troubling changes in my child's school I've put heads together with other non-muslim parent friends to put my name into the hat for the opening of parent governer. Waheguru willing we will succeed in getting representation ... I extended a hand of friendship to all others but it is clear that there a  main contingent teaching their kids to be nasty little s&*%s to non-muslims, it is these muslim boys who pick on my daughter and the muslim girls who reject her getting their little gangs of followers to also pick on her and other non-muslims. At one point she started to believe that there was something wrong with herself that's why they are behaving like that, so I put her straight that there are nasty people in the world too and these kids have been taught to be mean. Frankly , there is no comparison to friends back in the day and the current self-entitled proudly unpard madams and sirs these lot are  scum and proud of it.

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1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

agreed , That's why where I can see troubling changes in my child's school I've put heads together with other non-muslim parent friends to put my name into the hat for the opening of parent governer. Waheguru willing we will succeed in getting representation ... I extended a hand of friendship to all others but it is clear that there a  main contingent teaching their kids to be nasty little s&*%s to non-muslims, it is these muslim boys who pick on my daughter and the muslim girls who reject her getting their little gangs of followers to also pick on her and other non-muslims. At one point she started to believe that there was something wrong with herself that's why they are behaving like that, so I put her straight that there are nasty people in the world too and these kids have been taught to be mean. Frankly , there is no comparison to friends back in the day and the current self-entitled proudly unpard madams and sirs these lot are  scum and proud of it.

Sikhs are particularly incredibly foolish when it comes to creating contingencies for the future, or even imagining a host of scenarios that could play out based on what we know to be true in the here and now.

We are a people that exist purely in the present, which is quite alarming considering the foresight and depth of our scriptures that repeatedly impress upon us about the need for considering what is yet to come. Some of it is based on naievity, whilst I'm certain the rest is a form of wilfull delusion steeped in a fear of making tough, unpopular calls. 

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45 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Sikhs are particularly incredibly foolish when it comes to creating contingencies for the future, or even imagining a host of scenarios that could play out based on what we know to be true in the here and now.

We are a people that exist purely in the present, which is quite alarming considering the foresight and depth of our scriptures that repeatedly impress upon us about the need for considering what is yet to come. Some of it is based on naievity, whilst I'm certain the rest is a form of wilfull delusion steeped in a fear of making tough, unpopular calls. 

That's true I put that down to Sikhs now living in a increasingly globalised and multi-polar world where once they were isolated and able to draw strength from each other and being self sufficient in their needs as they were able to have area's of sovereign self rule but nowadays we live under other peoples rules and regulations.

Sikhs often look towards our leadership to know whats best for us but we have clearly seen over the years they aint got a clue, or do under hand deals with the opposition and they only react when crap hits the fan and they start causing a scene after. Sikhs should always be proactive and shape the future instead of other shaping it for us.

Recent past and present leadership has shown to be impotent and inept at dealing with many issues facing the panth and only through strength and intelligent dialogue with hard understanding of real politics can issues be solved.

So for example we had liberal Sikhs in west london on friendly terms with muslims after years of hostility and west london being a Sikh dominated area. As Sikhs offspring grew educated and affluent they moved out to sub urbs and better of area's leaving west london area's like southall,hayes,etc to be swamped by increasing number of numerous muslims of various nationalities to flood the area. And this increase has consequences where once Sikhs would dominate the local Schools and enforce a Sikh pluralistic co-existence agenda with other religions there is now increasing number of indoctrinated muslims and their kids in the playground forcing their separatist islamic supremist agenda which will obviously have an impact on the quality of life and welfare of Sikh kids growing up and others.

Modern liberal Sikhs families tell their kids not to be interested in religious stuff much and not to convert others which means Sikh kids are not confident in their faith and are not willing to challenge muslims when they try to groom and convert them (giving dawah). Basics of Sikhi has helped counter some of the muslim propaganda but its not enough, every Sikh should be doing their bit to convert people to the faith.

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2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

agreed , That's why where I can see troubling changes in my child's school I've put heads together with other non-muslim parent friends to put my name into the hat for the opening of parent governer. Waheguru willing we will succeed in getting representation ... I extended a hand of friendship to all others but it is clear that there a  main contingent teaching their kids to be nasty little s&*%s to non-muslims, it is these muslim boys who pick on my daughter and the muslim girls who reject her getting their little gangs of followers to also pick on her and other non-muslims. At one point she started to believe that there was something wrong with herself that's why they are behaving like that, so I put her straight that there are nasty people in the world too and these kids have been taught to be mean. Frankly , there is no comparison to friends back in the day and the current self-entitled proudly unpard madams and sirs these lot are  scum and proud of it.

I find that interesting because in area's dominated by muslims we had this problem from childhood so we had experienced what it meant to be a minority in a muslim dominated area and we were warning other Sikhs to watch out for the increase in muslim numbers in Sikh majority area's but they didnt really care. Even in USA and canada I remember years ago we had some cucked liberal lefty Sikhs on here defending islamo-fascists because they had not experienced the muslim migrant tide. They lived in area's where Sikhs or mostly whites dominated so were pretty comfortable in their views and outlook but changed their views once they see the intolerant views and terrorist attacks muslims were committing and the impact it was having on quality of life for Sikhs who were being mistaken for muslims and being victimised.

It just goes to show most Sikhs only wake up when the tide of problems is lapping at their feet and have no IQ to foresee or care about the tide from a distance coming towards them so they can prepare.

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37 minutes ago, genie said:

I find that interesting because in area's dominated by muslims we had this problem from childhood so we had experienced what it meant to be a minority in a muslim dominated area and we were warning other Sikhs to watch out for the increase in muslim numbers in Sikh majority area's but they didnt really care. Even in USA and canada I remember years ago we had some cucked liberal lefty Sikhs on here defending islamo-fascists because they had not experienced the muslim migrant tide. They lived in area's where Sikhs or mostly whites dominated so were pretty comfortable in their views and outlook but changed their views once they see the intolerant views and terrorist attacks muslims were committing and the impact it was having on quality of life for Sikhs who were being mistaken for muslims and being victimised.

It just goes to show most Sikhs only wake up when the tide of problems is lapping at their feet and have no IQ to foresee or care about the tide from a distance coming towards them so they can prepare.

It's liberalism in general. Even many White folk hate it so much, Most of my friends are white, large chunk of them are PC infected. But my best friend is a Christian, he totally hates it so much. I think the general turn with Trump being voted in and Brexit is a sign that all these Liberal-fascists are most likely ending their own causes. You should watch Ben Shapiro or Milo yiannopoulos, they make amazing points about all this. The Libtards tried to trash Milo in the media, but it backfired so hard on them. They wanted his book to sink in sales but the amount of people buying it shot up like 400%.

Sociology is so fascinating sometimes.

Edited by Kira
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50 minutes ago, genie said:

Modern liberal Sikhs families tell their kids not to be interested in religious stuff much and not to convert others which means Sikh kids are not confident in their faith...

What's happened is that we've, in the West, managed to combine the worst of our natural desi inclination towards shallow materialism and combine it with the respectable facade of being "educated" (which is just a codeword for the ability to accumulate at a greater rate with a semblance of so-called respectability), and we've become this strange hybrid of a people who have little patience for matters of faith aside from superficial posturing, whilst manufacturing a narrative of extreme tolerance, even if it works against our own long-term interests as a people, derived from a very loose and selective interpretation of our religion.

I tell you, the current Sikh or Punjabi children of now will curse their parents and elders in the next 20 to 30 years when they realise how they were failed due to a total dereliction of duties in their elders' role as guardians and protectors. Nobody sees it now, or nobody wants to see it, because things are relatively chilled and fruitful. We've hitched our wagon to the mainstream in the mistaken hope that we'll be protected by others. We won't. This won't last. Not a chance. The gleeful headlong hurtle into hedonism that Western Sikhs are currently experiencing will lead to some very harsh consequences for us that will decimate entire families. The wails of regret will be deafening.

Don't fall for the Left Vs Right narrative. It's a red herring. Completely false. 

Edited by MisterrSingh
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15 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

If you want an example to analyse you can't go wrong with our mayor in London UK Sadiq Khan.

in may of 2016:

http://barusahib.org/general/sadiq-khan-londons-new-mayor-makes-promises-to-the-sikhs/

this weekend, after making sangat hang around for an hour he turns up , refuses to go upstairs in Gurdwara , but stays in langar hall then this  :

Sikhs in the UK hand letter to London Mayor Sadiq Khan at Southall Nagar Kirtan (ਸਾਊਥਹਾਲ ਨਗਰ ਕੀਰਤਨ)
~ concerns across Sikh community regarding mixing cultural and religious aspects of separate significance threatens to overshadow Trafalgar Square celebrations

Having visited whilst electioneering as a Mayoral candidate, it was being stated by several committee members that current Mayor of London Sadiq Khan was the first mayor to return after winning an election, when he returned today before the annual Nagar Kirtan, which was delayed due to his late arrival, forcing thousands of members of the community to wait unnecessarily.

If that wasn't bad enough, the claim itself was dubious as Ken livingstone had actually returned to Southall Singh Sabha four times and did Matha Tek as a mark of respect to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, which Sadiq Khan did not do.

Instead Khan walked around the Langar Hall and as he was doing so was approached by Sdr Inderjeet Singh, who handed the Mayor of London a letter that outlines the concerns of the UK sikh community.

As the letter was handed to Sadiq Khan, whilst appearing to be initially reluctant to accept the document he then briskly took it and handed it to an aide.

Such perceived arrogance or nonchalance was quickly countered by the former Downing St policy supremo Inderjeet Singh with a firm, "...is that how you respect our community?".

Khan hastened to move away without either addressing, allaying or commenting on the Vaisakhi in the Square event or the concerns expressed.

The letter in full (actual delivered copy in comments):

Dear Mr. Sadiq Khan,

Re: GLA - Vaisakhi Festival 2017

We write to thank you for continuing the Mayor of London’s support to celebrate Vaisakhi, an event that was first started by Ken Livingstone in 2000. However, we are extremely disturbed at the proposed content, as this year’s programme appears to pay little regard to religious values by including an insensitive mix of religious, cultural and commercial entertainment. If this affront to the Sikh nation on its most auspicious religious occasion is not addressed before the event, it will do more damage than good and bring into disrepute a celebration that would otherwise be a joyous celebration and opportunity to promote community cohesion.

We request you to intervene by directing the project team to not have a Vaisakhi programme that has both the cultural and religious significance of Vaisakhi in the same event. As you will be aware from your many visits to Sikh Gurwara’s, Vaisakhi to Sikhs is an event that relates to the most prominent day in the Sikh faith when the “Khalsa Panth” was established by the 10th Guru of the Sikhs (Guru Gobind Singh), in 1699.

The desire of Sikhs that Vaisakhi is not ‘culturalised’ or ‘commercialised’ is no different from the desire of Muslims to keep celebration of Eid holy. Nor is it different from the desire of Christians that Christmas be celebrated as the birth of Christ. We are sure that you will want to do the right thing for all religious and faith communities of London and those of none, in progressing the policies of your administration at City Hall.

For any further information, you and/or your officals may wish to contact us, to make the GLA proposed Vasisakhi Festival in 2017, a great success.

Wishing you and the GLA a happy Vaisakhi.

Signed.

 
 
 

Sadiq Khan did not keep the sangat waiting. He arrived an hour late. Which utter  i d  i o  t  made the decision to delay GURU SAHIBS nagar kirtan by an hour for the arrival of Sadiq Khan?

He's an arrogant little pr*ck. I think we all know that including his own community.

I d  i o  t  is a banned word?! Waah?!

Edited by S4NGH

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22 minutes ago, S4NGH said:

I d  i o  t  is a banned word?! Waah?!

While that is a banned word, these are not: (I'm not saying any of these this just is a way to prove weak modding system)

F*ck

C*nt

S*it

I'm not saying anymore, but you get the deal.

Edited by Jacfsing2

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I agree with some points you said except the part about Muslims not donating to terrorist attack victims I live in an area with a lot of Muslim pop that grew in a few years and after the Ottawa attack Muslims from my city donated to the soilders family. However with this increase of population there has been an increase of gangs criminality and hostility to others including Sikhs where you now see groups of Muslims acting all hard givin ppl stares and just trying to be intimidating. You really c them saying racist stuff tho but there have been minor cases so who knows what these gangs say behind closed door but must say the terrorist types are a very tiny minority and this should not be ignored 

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1 minute ago, ghettosikh said:

I agree with some points you said except the part about Muslims not donating to terrorist attack victims I live in an area with a lot of Muslim pop that grew in a few years and after the Ottawa attack Muslims from my city donated to the soilders family. However with this increase of population there has been an increase of gangs criminality and hostility to others including Sikhs where you now see groups of Muslims acting all hard givin ppl stares and just trying to be intimidating. You really c them saying racist stuff tho but there have been minor cases so who knows what these gangs say behind closed door but must say the terrorist types are a very tiny minority and this should not be ignored 

Are you some bot that repeats everything? 

You already said those exact lines.

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It depends on what you will trust muslims for.

On an individual basis they can be trusted but it depends on what the context is.

It's the collective that you have be concerned about.

A Sikh generally will put truth first even if it goes against another Sikh.

A muslim will put another muslim first regardless of what the truth is.

The reason for this is that Islam as a political ideology is based on arab cultural values which means tribal loyalty comes first.

There is an arab saying ,"me against my brother, my brother and I against my father, my father and brother against my cousins, my family against my clan,my clan against my tribe" and so on.

This is the modus operandi of Islam and this is the effect on muslims. It needs enemies and "the other" to survive. When they do not have enemies they turn on each other.

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2 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

While that is a banned word, these are not: (I'm not saying any of these this just is a way to prove weak modding system)

F*ck

C*nt

S*it

I'm not saying anymore, but you get the deal.

But  i d i  o t ?! Cmon. How's that even foul/ abusive. Is 'stupid' banned?

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Some words shouldnt be banned as they are in gurbani. Also it makes the forum really hard to read with banned filter activated every other paragraph.

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Seriously you need to look past the label of 'muslim'. Islam is full of rules like have been outlined about using things like taqiyya, do you think your average (below average intelligence) person who labels themselves Muslim would know the nuances of its use? Whether you can trust a Muslim is down to you trusting a fellow soul. Likewise i know plenty of folks who labels themselves as 'sikh' who i wouldn't trust with anything. We have all come across them from dodgy lawyers , accountants, business folk to gurdwara committees. People are 'douches' under all 'labels'. Do you think guru Nanak Dev ji should have trusted Bhai Mardana in the early days? Even to infer that Muslims are one homogeneous group is also naive. The Shia and Sunni communities are divided so they can be ruled over, and lots of Arab 'muslims' look down on non-arab Muslims because they converted instead of dying for their beliefs (seeing them as lesser Muslims). The kind of person who uses taqiyya in the west is generally the type that gets caught drink driving or staging an accident and then suddenly uses religion to justify their 'ego' driven motives. Maybe I'm lucky but i do know some 'muslims' from different parts of the world who i would trust as their 'values' are inherent within them. 

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4 hours ago, imhosingh said:

Seriously you need to look past the label of 'muslim'. Islam is full of rules like have been outlined about using things like taqiyya, do you think your average (below average intelligence) person who labels themselves Muslim would know the nuances of its use? Whether you can trust a Muslim is down to you trusting a fellow soul. Likewise i know plenty of folks who labels themselves as 'sikh' who i wouldn't trust with anything. We have all come across them from dodgy lawyers , accountants, business folk to gurdwara committees. People are 'douches' under all 'labels'. Do you think guru Nanak Dev ji should have trusted Bhai Mardana in the early days? Even to infer that Muslims are one homogeneous group is also naive. The Shia and Sunni communities are divided so they can be ruled over, and lots of Arab 'muslims' look down on non-arab Muslims because they converted instead of dying for their beliefs (seeing them as lesser Muslims). The kind of person who uses taqiyya in the west is generally the type that gets caught drink driving or staging an accident and then suddenly uses religion to justify their 'ego' driven motives. Maybe I'm lucky but i do know some 'muslims' from different parts of the world who i would trust as their 'values' are inherent within them. 

bro surely you realise that the only shaheeds are of the convert type not true arabs ...i.e. afghanis, pakistanis, somali etc etc

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12 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Should we remove the bani of Baba farid ji from ggsj? 

and here you come spouting nonsense ... we are talking about specific anti-social aggressive behaviour from specific contemporary people claiming Muslim faith . Go and amuse yourself elsewhere

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