Pattaka Kabit about Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadhrianwale by Kamalroop Singh

[Jonny101]

I don't think kamalRoop singh wrote. If he did, then he has some good poetic skills I must  say.

[MisterrSingh]

5 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

I don't think kamalRoop singh wrote. If he did, then he has some good poetic skills I must  say.

Why is he using things like 'Dohra' and 'Chaupai'? Isn't that almost mocking the structure and style of Gurbani? 

[dallysingh101]

5 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Why is he using things like 'Dohra' and 'Chaupai'? Isn't that almost mocking the structure and style of Gurbani? 

No man, whoever wrote that is actually keeping a tradition from our Gurus alive. Dasmesh pita encouraged people to write creative poetry. 

[MisterrSingh]

8 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

No man, whoever wrote that is actually keeping a tradition from our Gurus alive. Dasmesh pita encouraged people to write creative poetry. 

Oh right. I've just never seen those used in a non Gurbani context. 

[dallysingh101]

34 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Oh right. I've just never seen those used in a non Gurbani context. 

Apparently those 'metres' were very common in contemporary poetry of the time. I just wished we understood their import better today. 

You can see the impact of dasmesh pita popularising the various chaands they used in DG all over the poetry of the kavi darbars and even subsequent poets. 

Actually I think I remember Prof. Sahib Singh talking about this in an old translation....let me see if I can find it:

 

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ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਆਉਣ ਸਮੇਂ ਦੇਸ਼ ਵਿਚ ਰਸਮੀ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ‘ਤਿਆਗੀ’ ਅਖਵਾਉਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਹੁੰਦਿਆਂ ਭੀ ਅਸਲ ਤਿਆਗ, ਖਲਕ ਤੇ ਖਲਕਤ ਨਾਲ ਪਿਆਰ ਬਹੁਤ ਘੱਟ ਵੇਖਣ ਵਿਚ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਸੀ, ਦਇਆ ਤੇ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਵਾਲਾ ਜੀਵਨ ਕਿਤੇ ਕਿਤੇ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਥਾਂ ਸੀ। ਆਮ ਤੌਰ ਤੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਦੇਸ਼ ਦੇ ‘ਲੋਕ ਗੀਤ’ ਉਸਦੇ ਵਾਸੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਜੀਵਨ ਉਤੇ ਬੜਾ ਡੂੰਘਾ ਅਸਰ ਪਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਏਥੇ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਜ਼ਾਹਰਦਾਰੀ ਵਧ ਜਾਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਇਹ ਲੋਕ ਗੀਤ ਵੀ ਦਇਆ, ਸੰਤੋਖ, ਪਿਆਰ, ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀ ਆਦਿਕ ਦੇ ੳੇੁਚੇ ਇਨਸਾਨੀ ਵਲਵਲਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਹੁਲਾਰਾ ਦੇਣੋ ਰਹਿ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਸਨ। ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਇੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ ‘ਲੋਕ ਗੀਤਾਂ’ ਵਿਚ ਨਵੀਂ ਜਾਨ ਪਾਈ, ‘ਘੋੜੀਆਂ’, ‘ਛੰਤ’, ‘ਅਲਾਹਣੀਆਂ’, ‘ਸਦੁ’, ‘ਬਾਰਹਮਾਹ’, ‘ਲਾਵਾਂ’, ‘ਵਾਰ’ ਆਦਿਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਪ੍ਰਚੱਲਤ ‘ਛੰਦ’ ਵਰਤ ਕੇ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਮਰ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਪਹਿਲੂਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਫਿਰ ਜ਼ਿੰਦ ਰੁਮਕਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ; ਸੱਚ, ਤਿਆਗ, ਪਿਆਰ, ਦਇਆ ਤੇ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਦੇ ਤਰੰਗ ਆਮ ਜੰਨਤਾ ਦੇ ਜੀਵਨ ਵਿਚ ਸੁੰਦਰਤਾ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਲੱਗ ਪਏ।

Despite the presence of people who called themselves ’ renunciates’ of the conventional way of life, at the time of Guru Nanak Sahib’s arrival in the country, genuine detachment and love for humanity was rarely witnessed. Lives lived with compassion and contentment where scarce and scattered thinly over the land. Now commonly any nation’s ‘folk songs’ would have a deep impact (ਡੂੰਘਾ ਅਸਰ) on the lives of its inhabitants, but due to the spread of ceremonious (or overt) shows of religiosity [as opposed to true faith], even these folk songs were failing to inspire any movement towards higher aspirations such as kindness, contentment, love, sacrifice and so forth. Guru Nanak suffused these musical folk traditions with a new lease of life. Through using ghorian, chhand, alaahnyaan, sadu, barahmah, laavaan, vaar and various other [poetic] metres, all of these dying aspects of [people’s] existences were reinvigorated with a fresh breeze of life; [As a consequence] sentiments of truth, restraint, love, compassion and contentment began to bring beauty into the lives of the common man.

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

 

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

Actually I think I remember Prof. Sahib Singh talking about this in an old translation....let me see if I can find it:

Where's that text from, bro? 

[Jonny101]

9 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Why is he using things like 'Dohra' and 'Chaupai'? Isn't that almost mocking the structure and style of Gurbani? 

No, choupi and dohra were widely used during olden times. It is according  to the size(matras) and meter. Choupi  I think has 16 matras and I can't remember how many matras is in a Dohra. This is all knowledge  of pingal  and it is a knowledge very few poets today possess. Who ever wrote did a good job.

[dallysingh101]

7 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

 

Where's that text from, bro? 

Prof. Sahib Singh's preface of his Jaap Sahib steek. 

 

 

[Akalifauj]

On ‎08‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 3:53 PM, genie said:

In my personal view and my reading of gurbani scriptures he clearly is not God but a messenger/agent of God. The light of God was in him (is it is in all of us) to do Waheguru's work but he was more enlightened and blessed with powers more than any of us will ever be. Here are my main reasons why he was not God:

Gurbani say Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji is the Guru and God. The message, Gurbani is the Guru and God. The Gurus are the message.  The messengers who were sent by God were people like Jesus and Mohammed and Krishna.  None of these agents/messengers were able to deliver Gurbani, the message.  Therefore vaheguru took sargun form as Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji.  

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1) Because Guru Nanak Sahib Ji himself praises God as an external entity. He does not state he is Waheguru and for him to be worshipped.

Gurbani clearly says Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji is the Guru and Vaheguru.  Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji is worshipped.  Sikhs bowed down to him and sang his praises in the form of Gurbani.

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2) Guru Gobind Singh Ji (whose light of guruship was transferred to him) stated he is not God and says anyone who claims he is will be cursed.

Why do you misquote Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji? He says clearly God and I are one and the same.  Your Christian teachings can't understand Gurbani and be applied to interpret Gurbani.  

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So if the light of the Guru's has been carried from the 1st to the last we can see there is a consistent message of Waheguru being an external force and the Guru's were messengers of Waheguru who had attained the power and permission from God to do what they came on earth to do.

Your premises have been proven to be false so your conclusion does not hold to be true.

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As for the instances where some lines are said to have state in SGGS Ji that Guru Nanak was God this can be explained by the use of metaphors and not literally meaning he was Waheguru himself descended on earth. Because that would have clearly been a false premise as had Waheguru really came down to earth then logic would tell us that all crimes, sins and other evil deeds would have come to an end and there would be perfect harmony and peace in the world.

Folks we have a Jehovah witness on this site trying to disguise himself as a Sikh. Gurbani says Vaheguru does all so why would he do any different?  You are deeply troubled by duality and can't see his hukam at work.  This creation is in Vaheguru and does not exist outside.  I know you Jehovah witnesses like to believe in a man in the sky fighting the devil but there is only one who has no attributes and has all attributes.  Also take the time out of your troubled life and learn the definition of a metaphor.