Guest Sukhi1

How many wife's did our guru's really have?

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Hi there,

Many sikh's believe that Guru Gobind Singh Ji only had one or two wife's but in matter of fact he had 3! I would like to question the fact how could he have 3 wives when in Guru Granth Sahib Ji it states that we should only have one beloved partner, this was established before Guru Gobind Singh Ji even got married, as he did not write in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it was completed by our 9th Guru. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's first wife was Mata Jito, his second wife was Mata sundri and his third wife was Mata sahib kaur. At one time Guru ji was living with both Mata sundri and Matta Sahib Kaur in the same house. How is it that the Guru had so many wives? does that not give the wrong impression? Guru gobind Singh Ji had his first son with Mata jito and his other three sons with Mata Sundri and no children with Mata Sahib Kaur. Some people object saying he was a man of God therefore he had powers therefore you cannot question him, but there is a reason behind ever action. Yes he may have been our 10th Guru but there has to be an explanation to why he had 3 wives?. This is not even the first Guru who had more than one wife. Guru Har Rai had 8 WIVES! and they were all sisters! For me that is extremely wrong because that is inbred going on because the children were then half brother and sisters or were they cousins? Yes these were our Guru's but we can still question their actions because not all the Guru's did this, Guru Nanak Dev Ji had only 1 wife. This totally contradicts equality within Sikhi because men and women are said to be equal but yet our Guru's don't show this by having more than 1 wife. Yes, this may be how things worked in the old times but that is not a valid reason as the Guru's new the future such as smoking and drinking alcohol would occur therefore it is forbidden and written in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji therefore they would also know in the future having more than 1 wife at one given time would not be acceptable therefore meaning questions would arise. 

I would like to hear other people's perspectives on this and how you would interpret what our Guru's did and whether or not you know why they did this , if you agree, disagree, if you think we shouldn't question them because they had Waheguru inside them, please let me know.

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Delusional at best. Who are you questioning? Who are you daring to point a finger at? Madness.

Guru sahib is the all knowing all seeing perfect immaculate lord God. There is no difference between God and Guru. Know that as fact if you consider yourself a Sikh. Guru sahib is not a mere mortal. Not an enlightened person. Not someone who had waheguru inside them. They are waheguru themself. Only waheguru knows his own game. What he does, he knows. Us mere mortals can not possibly comprehend them. Whether they had 1 wife or a million. It's completely irrelevant. Do as the perfect SatGuru says, not as he does. You're not to follow in his footsteps. You can't possibly do what they did. But we can do what they asked us to do. We are capable of that. Don't question Guru sahib. And if you must, show a little damn respect. Know who you're speaking about.

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On 4/8/2017 at 8:58 PM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

Hi there,

Many sikh's believe that Guru Gobind Singh Ji only had one or two wife's but in matter of fact he had 3! I would like to question the fact how could he have 3 wives when in Guru Granth Sahib Ji it states that we should only have one beloved partner, this was established before Guru Gobind Singh Ji even got married, as he did not write in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it was completed by our 9th Guru. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's first wife was Mata Jito, his second wife was Mata sundri and his third wife was Mata sahib kaur. At one time Guru ji was living with both Mata sundri and Matta Sahib Kaur in the same house. How is it that the Guru had so many wives? does that not give the wrong impression? Guru gobind Singh Ji had his first son with Mata jito and his other three sons with Mata Sundri and no children with Mata Sahib Kaur. Some people object saying he was a man of God therefore he had powers therefore you cannot question him, but there is a reason behind ever action. Yes he may have been our 10th Guru but there has to be an explanation to why he had 3 wives?. This is not even the first Guru who had more than one wife. Guru Har Rai had 8 WIVES! and they were all sisters! For me that is extremely wrong because that is inbred going on because the children were then half brother and sisters or were they cousins? Yes these were our Guru's but we can still question their actions because not all the Guru's did this, Guru Nanak Dev Ji had only 1 wife. This totally contradicts equality within Sikhi because men and women are said to be equal but yet our Guru's don't show this by having more than 1 wife. Yes, this may be how things worked in the old times but that is not a valid reason as the Guru's new the future such as smoking and drinking alcohol would occur therefore it is forbidden and written in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji therefore they would also know in the future having more than 1 wife at one given time would not be acceptable therefore meaning questions would arise. 

I would like to hear other people's perspectives on this and how you would interpret what our Guru's did and whether or not you know why they did this , if you agree, disagree, if you think we shouldn't question them because they had Waheguru inside them, please let me know.

1. Friend, you seem earnest enough, so I'm going to give you an answer in the same coin. Your first problem is you've unconsciously accepted feminism as a universal standard (what you called "equality"). I don't fault you for that, because it's likely what you've been taught since kindergarten. Leftists control lower and higher education, Hollywood, and the media, so it's unsurprising feminism is like the air we breathe. Let go of that, and maybe you'll have a chance of understanding our Guru Sahibs, and also Sikhism.

2. >in Guru Granth Sahib Ji it states that we should only have one beloved partner,

Well, it doesn't state that. Did someone tell you that? Strangely enough, many people who state loudly that they are only going to accept Guru Granth Sahib, and nothing else, are also the ones who are against the plural marriage of our Gurus, which is ironic since it doesn't say that in Gurbani.

3. The poster above already told you not to chase after Guru's actions. Agreed that Guru's basic rehit is the same as for Sikhs, but there some things we need not (in normal cases) try to also do. The quote is:

ਗੁਰਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਾ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥ Do those deeds which the Guru has ordained.ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਧਾਵਹੁ ॥  ॥Why are you chasing after the Guru's actions? (p 933)

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On 4/8/2017 at 11:28 AM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

Hi there,

Many sikh's believe that Guru Gobind Singh Ji only had one or two wife's but in matter of fact he had 3! I would like to question the fact how could he have 3 wives when in Guru Granth Sahib Ji it states that we should only have one beloved partner, this was established before Guru Gobind Singh Ji even got married, as he did not write in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it was completed by our 9th Guru. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's first wife was Mata Jito, his second wife was Mata sundri and his third wife was Mata sahib kaur. At one time Guru ji was living with both Mata sundri and Matta Sahib Kaur in the same house. How is it that the Guru had so many wives? does that not give the wrong impression? Guru gobind Singh Ji had his first son with Mata jito and his other three sons with Mata Sundri and no children with Mata Sahib Kaur. Some people object saying he was a man of God therefore he had powers therefore you cannot question him, but there is a reason behind ever action. Yes he may have been our 10th Guru but there has to be an explanation to why he had 3 wives?

Mata Sundri and Mata Jito are the same person, and Mata Sahib Kaur was a unique Rishta. But where does Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji say that monogamy is the key? This is mentioned in Sikhi but its part of Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaaran, not Guru Sahib.

On 4/8/2017 at 11:28 AM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

This is not even the first Guru who had more than one wife. Guru Har Rai had 8 WIVES! and they were all sisters! For me that is extremely wrong because that is inbred going on because the children were then half brother and sisters or were they cousins?

Yes it is wrong for YOU! (Keyword here is YOU, not Guru Sahib), also you have to read the Sakhi of him having 8 wives which odds are you haven't.

 

On 4/8/2017 at 11:28 AM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

 

On 4/8/2017 at 11:28 AM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

Yes these were our Guru's but we can still question their actions because not all the Guru's did this, Guru Nanak Dev Ji had only 1 wife. 

This line is a complete fail:@ that I would feel ashamed to be having these thoughts, and I wasn't always the good Sikh, (or am), but honestly this isn't positive.

On 4/8/2017 at 11:28 AM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

This totally contradicts equality within Sikhi because men and women are said to be equal but yet our Guru's don't show this by having more than 1 wife.

Exactly how is a person, (not Guru Sahib), going to contradict equality by having more than one wife, (emotional opinions are not truth)? Also forget gender equality, this is Guru equality you're talking about.

On 4/8/2017 at 11:28 AM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

Yes, this may be how things worked in the old times but that is not a valid reason as the Guru's new the future such as smoking and drinking alcohol would occur therefore it is forbidden and written in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji therefore they would also know in the future having more than 1 wife at one given time would not be acceptable therefore meaning questions would arise. 

Again don't know where it says it's a sin to have more than one wife? Also there were hundereds of things Guru Sahib did; which you doing them would destroy your jeevan because you aren't God. Also Guru Sahib isn't some politician even though he was political. Also having more than one wife isn't acceptable by what standard? Christians? Feminists? Punjabis? All of their standards are still pretty low, even many of the Khalistani Shaheeds had more than one wife and that was only 20-30 years ago.

On 4/8/2017 at 11:28 AM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

I would like to hear other people's perspectives on this and how you would interpret what our Guru's did and whether or not you know why they did this , if you agree, disagree, if you think we shouldn't question them because they had Waheguru inside them, please let me know.

Guru Sahib didn't have Vaheguru in them; they were Vaheguru themselves. Sinners like me have Vaheguru inside them, Aurangzeb, Hitler, Indra, and many other Paapis have Vaheguru in them. Guru Sahib isn't someone who has Vaheguru inside them, but rather is Vaheguru who came.

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On 4/8/2017 at 8:58 PM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

Yes these were our Guru's but we can still question their actions because not all the Guru's did this

Well, it depends on what you mean "question their actions". If you mean question their actions in the sense of asking why Guru Sahib did this or that, simply for the sake of knowing why, and not for saying Guru Sahib is wrong, then we can ask why Guru Sahib did a certain thing, e.g., Why did Guru Arjan Dev ji compile Guru Granth Sahib? Why did Guru Teg Bahadur Ji agree to help the Hindu Pandits? 

But it is not allowable to question Guru Sahib in the sense of casting aspersions on Guru Ji. You should read Gurbani, it portrays Guru Sahib as perfect and the embodiment of God, not as fallible humans like us. If Guru Sahib isn't perfect, there's no more discussion we need to have, we can shut down this website, and also all of the Gurdwaras, including Darbar Sahib.

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18 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Mata Sundri and Mata Jito are the same person, and Mata Sahib Kaur was a unique Rishta.

Friend, with respect, this is not true (that Mata Sundri and Jito ji are the same person).

This untruth was made up by Dr. Gurbakhsh Singh of Washington, DC, USA, who wrote a book of Sikh questions and answers for kids which has some merit. He writes:

Quote

The wrong impression that the Guru had more than one wife was created by those writers who were ignorant of Punjabi culture.

He then goes on to claim the fact of Mata ji's existence was written by writers not familiar with Punjabi customs like marriage, muklava, and so forth. This boggles the mind because I'm wondering which writers he's referring to that don't know Punjabi culture, like Kavi Santokh Singh? Or any other Sikh writer? ???

They were ignorant of Punjabi culture? The fact is that Mata Jito Ji and Sundri ji have different genealogies, different birthplaces, and also different dates of demise, and landmarks commemorating their demise (in Anandpur and Delhi).

The truth is the only ones who are unfamiliar with Punjabi culture is ABCDs (American born confused desis) who can't understand anything outside of the modern Western framework. No problem, though, since none of us is born with knowledge of anything.

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32 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Guru Sahib didn't have Vaheguru in them; they were Vaheguru themselves. Sinners like me have Vaheguru inside them, Aurangzeb, Hitler, Indra, and many other Paapis have Vaheguru in them. Guru Sahib isn't someone who has Vaheguru inside them, but rather is Vaheguru who came.

Very good and concise statement of Sikh belief.

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6 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Friend, with respect, this is not true (that Mata Sundri and Jito ji are the same person).

O.k.:waheguru:

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On Saturday, April 08, 2017 at 8:28 AM, Guest Sukhi1 said:

Hi there,

Many sikh's believe that Guru Gobind Singh Ji only had one or two wife's but in matter of fact he had 3! I would like to question the fact how could he have 3 wives when in Guru Granth Sahib Ji it states that we should only have one beloved partner, this was established before Guru Gobind Singh Ji even got married, as he did not write in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it was completed by our 9th Guru. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's first wife was Mata Jito, his second wife was Mata sundri and his third wife was Mata sahib kaur. At one time Guru ji was living with both Mata sundri and Matta Sahib Kaur in the same house. How is it that the Guru had so many wives? does that not give the wrong impression? Guru gobind Singh Ji had his first son with Mata jito and his other three sons with Mata Sundri and no children with Mata Sahib Kaur. Some people object saying he was a man of God therefore he had powers therefore you cannot question him, but there is a reason behind ever action. Yes he may have been our 10th Guru but there has to be an explanation to why he had 3 wives?. This is not even the first Guru who had more than one wife. Guru Har Rai had 8 WIVES! and they were all sisters! For me that is extremely wrong because that is inbred going on because the children were then half brother and sisters or were they cousins? Yes these were our Guru's but we can still question their actions because not all the Guru's did this, Guru Nanak Dev Ji had only 1 wife. This totally contradicts equality within Sikhi because men and women are said to be equal but yet our Guru's don't show this by having more than 1 wife. Yes, this may be how things worked in the old times but that is not a valid reason as the Guru's new the future such as smoking and drinking alcohol would occur therefore it is forbidden and written in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji therefore they would also know in the future having more than 1 wife at one given time would not be acceptable therefore meaning questions would arise. 

I would like to hear other people's perspectives on this and how you would interpret what our Guru's did and whether or not you know why they did this , if you agree, disagree, if you think we shouldn't question them because they had Waheguru inside them, please let me know.

Lets treat you as if you are the 1st type of questioner tjat Bhforce describes. You genuinely want to know why. And not the 2nd type of questioner who wants to cast aspersions. So heres why:

Guru Ji had 3 wives because he had three rishtas. Guruji did not go looking for wives. In fact he did not even choose one. As you must know, panjabis have arranged marriages. So gurujis marriage was arranged 3 times. Why? People thought it was the highest honor if their daughter was married to the Guru. And as it was permissible in Indian, especially Kshatri traditions for men to have many wives, ppl thought it was ok and kept offering their daughters even tho guruji was married.You could say Guruji could refuse. But if he did, the girls married life was forfeit. A girl who was offered yet refused would not be asked to marry. So Guruji could change the system. He did. His first marriage was arranged by his father. Then Mata Sundris parents were admant that guruji accept their daughter.  Guruji said I am already married. They said u r king of kings n kings have many wives. Also our daughter has been offered, if u refuse, her life will be ruined. She will be a burden to us. Noone will marry her and after we die, there is nobody to care for her. Please remember that back then women had no means of earning income. The fathers land and job belonged to son by law and there was no means for women to earn a living. So an unmarried women will have to depend on brothers charity or societys charity or starve. She will become a begger, destitute, a charity case. So guruji said Ok i will accept her, but no more. But some dared to go against gurus hukam and offer their daughter. Guruji reprimanded them and they said it was out of love and sharda. And that the daughter was offered already and if u reject her, she will be destitute. So guruji changed the system. He said I will not marry her. But she will not be destitute. I will clothe, feed and give her a home. Also I will give her the protection of my name. So in the future, no one can say guruji had 2 wives and a concubine. I hate to use this word. But stupid ppl who will cast aspersions must be answered. So guruji did marry her to give her legitamacy. But as Guruji announced, there will be no marital relations. Yes announced. That  is why we know today why  mata ji had no children. Otherwise doubters would.be saying it was infertility. Why did guruji announce it? To change the system. To indian minds that was a horrible fate. Like a sham marriage and it ensured the woman would be childless. And it was effective. No other rishta was ever offered again. Nobody wanted their daughter to suffer that. And it was a trial to mataji too, as we know because she asked guruji for a child. And the wonderous Guruji fulfilled her wish while keeping to his word by gifting the Khalsa as her child. 

If you are a genuine questioner, you now know why guruji had 3 wives. If you are an aspersion caster/ doubter, u still will be unsatisfied.

I think guruji did the kindest and wisest thing.in all marriages. He didnt want to offer a childless sham marriage to mata sundri, as it was not her fault. But he had to for mata sahib deva to change the system and stop more rishte. He also tried to change woman roles and one.of his hukams is that of a woman earns or has an independent income, nobody has the right to take it from her. He also encouraged them to get skills. Like battle, scholarship, and learn self defense. He hired Mata Bhago Ji as his bodyguard. He supported Bibi Deep Kaur when she was shunned by her family for wrestling/fighting off muslims in hand to hand combat. Her family said she was soiled, unpure. Guruji said she is my daughter and Im proud of her. 

As for Guru HarRai Ji, history isnt clear on the 8 wives. But the why is similar. They were sisters in need of protection. Most ppl in the olden days married widows of their brothers or young girls living with them to give protection of their name.  

 

Edited by Not2Cool2Argue
Mistook mata jito ji for mata sundri
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I would like to thank Not2Cool2Argue as you have opened my eyes and answered my question in a respectful manner and I deeply appreciate that, thank you. 

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