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Some more Home Truths

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
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There are a lot of parts of the South East where people from the East End moved to and impacted the accent not just Southall, mind you I was not aware people from East end venturing out to West London during the early 20th century does surprise me

I can't see how it does 'surprise you' Ranjeet. What makes unlocking history fascinating is that it's like putting together a giant jigsaw puzzle. Once you fit the pieces together things begin to make sense. To do that you have to start with the basics and I would recommend everyone here in the UK researches their own local history because once you set down that route you to begin to understand our own Sikh history in the UK and its vital we pass that on to each generation. I believe that is so vitally important because right now we've allowed the Sikhs from Kenya that arrived in the late 1970's to misrepresent our history, for example in the way they keep mentioning in the Annual Sikh Report how Sikh settlement in West London started because of jobs at Heathrow Airport. That is just so wrong. So, starting with the basic knowledge that Southall was famous for being west London's major industrial hub (as well <banned word filter activated> the UK's foremost lunatic asylum town) a researcher then needs to examine what those industries were and where they came from. On top of that, when one considers that in the mid to late 1800s up to 50% of Southall's residents were officially 'lunatics' one needs to research where those lunatics were housed from. Research on that front shows that most if not all were from the 'slums of London'. Now of course that could mean anything, as south of the river had as many slums as the east end and places like camden, north kensington, islington and indeed all over inner London were full of slums. However, given the fact that the east end of London was at that time the worlds largest and most concentrated slum I do think we can take it as a given that most were from there. Next, we need to examine the industries. As I said before, we don't need to factor in the major and giant American, German and Danish industries that chose Southall as their base except of course to understand that those major industries attracted a lot workers from out of the area and no area in the UK had people leaving for better pastures than the east end. Next, when we look at the bulk of the other industries that made Southall an industrial hub we need to investigate where they came from....because wherever they came from their workers came with them...and wherever the workers went they took their voices along with them too. So, with major brick companies setting up in Southall we need to research those brick companies, Thats where it gets interesting because local historians and the more numerous Shoreditch (east end) historians (before Southall became so, Shoreditch was London's premier industrial hub) tell us that after one brick company left Shoreditch and set up in Southall it became a trickle of brick companies doing the same followed by many other Shoreditch industries. This spread to many other east london industires, such as AEC the bus maker who moved from east london (Walthamstow) to Southall to set up a humungously sized works.

As I said before Ranjeet, going on a mission of unlocking history is like going on a magical adventure. Its full of wonderfull discovery. I'll give you another example, we know that the very first Sikhs that set up home in Vancouver in the late 1800's were said to be amazingly tall and strong men. Given that information one can't help but go on a magical adventure of discovery and unlock how and why that might be. The first research reveals that those very first Sikhs were ex-soldiers of the British army who came to Canada direct from China and the far east. The next research reveals they were originally dispatched to China to crush the Boxer Rebellion. The last piece of research reveals old photographs of the Sikhs that were selected in the Punjab to go to China and crush the Chinese. That research, and those photographs, reveal that these men were chosen for this mission based purely on their intimidating size. Each, to a man, 6'4" + build like a brick <banned word filter activated> house. Like I said, history is fascinating.

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for my well-practiced ear (since I was born within sound of bow bells ( technically a cockney)  southall is more like the Essex accent rather than the true cockney accent (no apples and pears, jaffas or mutton phrases etc) . which makes sense as central line is direct link to the two halfs . One classic telltale sign is the constant use of innit as punctuation, you don't get that in Cockney it's used purely in sentence context.

No when I talk about the Cockney accent, JKVLondon, I'm talking about the sound of the words and method of delivery and not the caricature-comedic- rhyming slang. I think I might disagree with your assertion that 'innit' is/was not a cockney thing  though. I'm no expert with regards to this aspect and am just basing my opinion on popular media but 'Alf Garnett', for what it's worth, does contradict your view. It's pretty much given that Alf Garnet, and his West Ham accent represented the east end cockney accent rather than south or north London and he was famous for saying 'innit' from the 1960's right up until the 1990's.

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I don't at all understand what or how you relate this to 'race theory' (a concept which in this context I'm unfamiliar with),you may very well have a point but I don't think you're articulating it in a way for me at least to digest.. 

There's quite a bit of presumption in your proposition as it stands.. I'm all ears to hear the break down but at the moment it feels like you're making a issue out of nothing..? 

I genuinely don't buy into this idea that Sikhs some how have a inferiority complex that makes them apologetic.. I with all due respect would like to see how you join the dots I'm genuinely not being facetious

 

I know you're not being facetious Sukhivirk. Even when you're arguing your odious and sickening pro-india points you always do it in a respectful way so that is to be commended.

I disagree when you say I haven't explained my position clearly.....I think I've articulated it time and again and will do so now for the last time.

A few months ago, international media were running stories entitled 'Sikhs feel ashamed by antics in German Gurdwara' or words to that effect. The international media, especially the Indian media, were running that story because Sikh organisations and individuals had been feeding the media reports of us as a group of people feeling utter 'shame' by what had happened. I wrote a message here stating that Christians in their most holiest (where jesus was born) and Jews in London, had been fist fighting in their places of worship far more and far worse than what happened in Germany so I asked what kind of self-loathing led us, but not them, to feed the media stories about our own 'shame' ? I'm not going to go into detail here SukhiVirk but where the 'theory' comes into this is the idea that a group of non-white people become self-critical and self-effacing because they don't feel that have lived up to the ideals set up by white people. Those 'ideals' are not real. Those ideals have been sub-consciously implanted into us. The conscious among us refuse to dance to this tune.

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Guest london jwaan
On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 11:47 AM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

oh and one more thing London Jawan Singh :
 

The Gurdwara is at the corner of St. Annes Road. Walk up St. Annes Road and you end up at the western entrance of Grenfell Tower. For someone who claims to have "been there over the weekend doing volunteer work" you really do have either a poor sense of geography or terrible spatial awareness..... if not a horrible habit of lying :ehhh:

Jagsaw, you have a 5 year ole mentality (and that's being generous), in that you make up idiotic statistics to try and "prove" your point. I think we can update the saying, lies, damn lies and statistics to read "lies, damn lies, and Jagsaw's total bukwaas"

WJKK WJKF

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh

Guest London Jawan Singh.  Out of what is now a grand total of 103 posts in your entire history on this foum, exactly 102 of them have been where you have stalked me from thread to thread just to throw abuse. That, by any standards, is a mind-blowing thing ?    Now just think about that for one moment: 102 out of 103 of your messages here have been where you stalked me from one thread to another just to throw abuse. I can't even imagine what sort of emotional / mental problems would lie behind such a course of action because it's a state of affairs that is beyond the comprehension of normal people. I think really it's one for the Mods and Admin here to ponder because they need to ask how, when they (the Mods) have had to filter 100 out of 103 of your messages in order to delete the disgusting swear words they still let your messages go on ?   I don't think any of us here would imagine we'd be allowed to post if 100 out of 103 of our messages were full of expletives. So, as someone that doesn't understand why anyone needs to abuse rather than talking, swear rather than use acceptable words and stalk any individual I will have to put it down to other emotional / mental issues in your personal life and show a little understanding.  As such, I will appreciate and take into account the personal issues you have and show understanding as to how the semantics of little over 20 feet can become such a major exploding issue inside your mind that you feel the need to write a total of 3 messages full of expletives over it. So, seeing how it has become such a big and corrosive thing in your mind let me take you by the hand and walk you from the Central London Gurdwara (shepherds bush) to Grenfell Tower. Come and out of the Gurdwara and look to your left. Barring the 2 terraced houses in between you and St Annes Rd you are little over a few yards from the corner of St Annes Rd. For all intents and purposes that puts your starting point at St Annes Rd. Walk up the road that you're starting from (St Annes Rd) and you end up at the western entrance of Grenfell Tower. 

Now, take a few deep breaths and analyse why you previously let this issue get you so wound up that your resorted to stalking someone and abusing them on the internet. Once you start this period of self-analysis you will hoepfully make a concerted effort to control your emotions next time.

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London Jawan, can you please lay-off posting every single reply to jagsaw? Focus on something else.

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On 2017-6-12 at 5:56 PM, MisterrSingh said:

This thread is AIDS. And not the good kind, such as a botched blood transfusion, but the bad kind; the type of AIDS contracted as a result of man love. 

this is ridiculous uncle  ! I think you're better than this homophobic trash you sometimes reveal in your posts.

Also AIDS is nasty no matter how you get it . Claiming Jagsaw is throwing sikhs under the bus, now you're throwing gays under the bus . How ironic.

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Who needs RSS and islamists to finish us off ? 

We will do it ourselves by fighting among ourselves. This thread is one example :shock

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4 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

this is ridiculous uncle  ! I think you're better than this homophobic trash you sometimes reveal in your posts.

Also AIDS is nasty no matter how you get it . Claiming Jagsaw is throwing sikhs under the bus, now you're throwing gays under the bus . How ironic.

It's an obscure reference to a satirical comedy sketch. I know satire is an alien concept to most resident Indians because it requires subtlety.  Get off your high horse. Don't bother with me nonsense you clearly struggle to understand.

Contrary to popular belief and the prevailing mood in contemporary society, most people aren't supportive of homosexuality, particularly in the way it's pushed as the norm by the media. Whilst I wish homosexuals no harm and believe they should be free to practice their lifestyles as they see fit in private, I don't wish to be confronted by gay propaganda at every turn. No masculine male finds homosexuality to be acceptable. FACT. I reject the social programming that has beat entire generations into submission over the past few decades in regards to accepting, endorsing, and normalising such sexual predilections. It is the most pernicious form of psychological warfare designed to destroy society, and history will prove me right when future generations will look back on this period of time and realise that the subversion of heterosexual norms in favour of the many flavours of kink on the LBTQ+ spectrum was one of the root causes of the eventual destruction of our civilisation. We can thank Karl Marx, his successors, and their ideological disciples, of which Jagsaw is one, for that upcoming turn of events.

Plus, if I could be bothered I would present you with a number of anti-gay, to varying degrees, disparaging remarks against homosexuals Jagsaw has made over the years in his incarnations as West London Singh and whichever other moniker he used on this site. That's something he'd be well served to remember before he reframes himself as a champion of gay rights in light of recent political events in the UK.

Don't play your devious little games with me.

Edited by MisterrSingh
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5 hours ago, S1ngh said:

London Jawan, can you please lay-off posting every single reply to jagsaw? Focus on something else.

With all due respect, as long as he isn't breaking forum rules he should be free to post whatever he wishes.

If Jagsaw has seen fit to create a special little enclave on this forum where he can espouse his certain brand of beliefs and delusions to a willing audience, despite being banned, anyone should be free to post whatever they feel to be suitable (within the rules), especially when being directly addressed by the creator of this thread. 

Edited by MisterrSingh
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Guest Jagsaw_Singh
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Plus, if I could be bothered I would present you with a number of anti-gay, to varying degrees, disparaging remarks against homosexuals Jagsaw has made over the years in his incarnations as West London Singh and whichever other moniker he used on this site. That's something he'd be well served to remember before he reframes himself as a champion of gay rights in light of recent political events in the UK.

Don't play your devious little games with me

 

2 things there MisterSingh: Firstly, you're addressing your point to Ajeet Singh Punjabi who was taking issue with something quite disgusting that YOU said.....so why bring me into it ?  Secondly, when you finish your message off with "don't play your devious little games with me" is that because you got all flustered and confused about who you were addressing your message to ? I ask because I don't think anyone here would accuse Ajeet Singh Punjabi of being capable of playing 'devious little games" and seeing how he is an out in the open homosexual it's perfectly reasonable and acceptable for him to take issue with your 'AIDS' remark without being called devious in a pretty nasty way.

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If Jagsaw has seen fit to create a special little enclave on this forum where he can espouse his certain brand of beliefs

Which of my 'certain brand of beliefs' that I've espoused on this thread have upset you so much ?   Generally it's the pro-India anti-Khalistan dogs that detest my anti-India beliefs and come hunting for me in packs of rabid dogs. What's your excuse for joining the muts ?   Was it the anti-brexit stance that made you so angry ?  Was it the vote Labour stance that made your blood boil ?  Was it the history posts ?  

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If Jagsaw has seen fit to create a special little enclave on this forum where he can espouse his certain brand of beliefs and delusions

Brother, I'm all ears and I'm always open to discussion. If you think the Southall industry things are delusional talk to me....tell us your views...don't abuse.  If you think Brexit is gonna make this country world class talk to me....tell us your views...don't abuse. I've espoused a lot of wonderful things on this forum. I'd be really worried if everyone agreed with all of those views. That's not how things should be. As individuals, with individual opinions, we're supposed to disagree with each other.  An area where you need to develop in however, is not taking the political-socio-legal and history views of others so personally that they affect your ability to understand the thing that unites man with man...i.e being able to articulate your counter opinions with decorum and mutual respect.

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anyone should be free to post whatever they feel to be suitable (within the rules), especially when being directly addressed by the creator of this thread

You've clearly been having a very rough couple of months MisterSingh. I think we all realised that when you wrote your quite sinister 'AIDS' post because that was well beneath you and something none of expected from you. But, I've known you long enough to know that you're not that bad and, unless things are particularly rough at the moment with things getting on to of you, there is no way you would be justifying a pro-India troll stalking someone from thread to thread here with the sole intention of throwing abuse....the end result being 102 out of 103 of his messages doing just that. btw...if you're wondering what his one sole message that wasn't about me was: That was a message in which he viciously abuse JKVLondon.  You're better than to keep such company MisterSingh. 

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Guest london jwaan
22 hours ago, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

I think really it's one for the Mods and Admin here to ponder because they need to ask how, when they (the Mods) have had to filter 100 out of 103 of your messages in order to delete the disgusting swear words they still let your messages go on ?  

More bukwaas. Its never ending. Filter 100 of my posts eh? bollocks. Aside from which how the hell would you know, given that you are neither a mod, admin or vaguely respected member of this board with any influence whatsoever?

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh

Re; the 'Women wear make-up for self-confidence' thread on the Moms and motherhood  page :

Dallysingh said:

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People don't wan't to end up like Jagsaw, who obviously looks at other people's attractive wives and then looks at his own, and then falls into depression

Four things:

First thing: I'm flattered that you've taken to my style of starting posts with the words '2 things:' 3 things:' etc

Second thing: What on earth is a big burly rough'ntuff east end hardman doing posting messages on a 'Moms and Motherhood' thread ? :hairan:

Third thing: For one that revels in calling all jatt Sikhs 'backward uneducated pendus' surely your urban family background  should have made you bright enough to understand how my post in the 'depression and sadness in marriage' thread was alluding to the captivity and suppression of free will that comes with the institution of marriage and not an opportunity to childishly make disparaging remarks about another man's wife ?

Fourth thing:  What kind of Sikh would even think about saying something horrible about the looks of a Kaur ?   (btw...not that it matters but my Kaur....the one you disgustingly ridiculed - is an amritdhari beautiful daughter of Sri Gobind Singh ji. What sums up more than anything everything that is rotten with this forum is the fact that people with their hair cut (as DallySingh100 has admitted he is many a time) as well as others here, have had such a free reign abusing and insulting those of here who are Amritdhari they have even moved on to abusing and insulting our tenth master's daughters. That itself sums up the topsy turvy nature of things here but the fact that not one of you will come forward and stand up for the honour of your sister by standing up to this hair-cut fraud called dallysingh101 who is free as a bird to include the 'f word' at will in his messages on a Sikh forum. Between dallysingh's message and this message appearing here 2 or 3 days should have passed. We'll see how many of you who pretend to hold 'Sikh' values here were willing to stand up for an amritdhari Kaur against a hair-cut mona who insults her ?

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On 28/06/2017 at 0:25 PM, MisterrSingh said:

Contrary to popular belief and the prevailing mood in contemporary society, most people aren't supportive of homosexuality, particularly in the way it's pushed as the norm by the media

Thats a bit assuming too much , uncle ji ! Most surveys show how liberal countries do have overwhelming support of homosexuality or atleast past the 50-60 percent mark. See I am against gays shoving so-called "gay agenda" in the face of heterosexuals , but TBH heterosexual agenda (which is a real thing) is shoved down our throats daily , every minute . Heteronormativity and patriarchy are shoving "heterosexual agenda".


 

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. Whilst I wish homosexuals no harm and believe they should be free to practice their lifestyles as they see fit in private, I don't wish to be confronted by gay propaganda at every turn.


 

I am against the kind of <banned word filter activated>-gots who get on top of a truck in nothing but their underwear in pride parades. I have always asked them to dress decently . I am against gays who harass a cake baker to no end just because he wouldn't bake their cake. 

But then again heterosexual persecution of homosexuals is far more of a thing than modern day so-called "gay agenda" . Heck, even gay agenda and pride is born out of centuries of persecution .


 

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No masculine male finds homosexuality to be acceptable. FACT.

 

Please only speak for yourself ! EVen here in india, many straight men if not overtly supportive of homos will still not be outrightly rejectful of it . They do evolve their views. 

I guess your agenda against homosexuality stems from the fact that you have lived in times when gay rights were non-existent and those conservative views have never left you. Sorry if you're offended. I am not taking a dig at your age. Rather, I like your posts here much and I think they're one of those few things which add value to this forum.

 

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I reject the social programming that has beat entire generations into submission over the past few decades in regards to accepting, endorsing, and normalising such sexual predilections. It is the most pernicious form of psychological warfare designed to destroy society, and history will prove me right when future generations will look back on this period of time and realise that the subversion of heterosexual norms in favour of the many flavours of kink on the LBTQ+ spectrum was one of the root causes of the eventual destruction of our civilisation. We can thank Karl Marx, his successors, and their ideological disciples, of which Jagsaw is one, for that upcoming turn of events.

 

You call it "social programming". I call it society evolving to "social justice" . 

Its sad that other people getting equal rights as you is seen as "social programming' by you. Isn't sikhi about protecting and fighting for underprivileged and oppressed. As a sikh, you should rather be atleast tolerant and supportive of LGBT rights, if not an activist . 

Karl Marx was not hero for homosexuals.  Communist countries have a history of persecution of homosexuals . Modern day china and russia don't allow gay pride marches. So much for communists love for homosexuals. It doesn't exist ! 

Please stop this scare threat of society destruction just because homosexuals got equal rights in western hemisphere. Its really disappointing to see sikhs act this way when our faith teaches us the opposite. 

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Don't play your devious little games with me.

I am not playing any games uncle ji ! Just trying to educate you .

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1 hour ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

Thats a bit assuming too much , uncle ji ! Most surveys show how liberal countries do have overwhelming support of homosexuality or atleast past the 50-60 percent mark. See I am against gays shoving so-called "gay agenda" in the face of heterosexuals , but TBH heterosexual agenda (which is a real thing) is shoved down our throats daily , every minute . Heteronormativity and patriarchy are shoving "heterosexual agenda".


 

I am against the kind of <banned word filter activated>-gots who get on top of a truck in nothing but their underwear in pride parades. I have always asked them to dress decently . I am against gays who harass a cake baker to no end just because he wouldn't bake their cake. 

But then again heterosexual persecution of homosexuals is far more of a thing than modern day so-called "gay agenda" . Heck, even gay agenda and pride is born out of centuries of persecution .


 

Please only speak for yourself ! EVen here in india, many straight men if not overtly supportive of homos will still not be outrightly rejectful of it . They do evolve their views. 

I guess your agenda against homosexuality stems from the fact that you have lived in times when gay rights were non-existent and those conservative views have never left you. Sorry if you're offended. I am not taking a dig at your age. Rather, I like your posts here much and I think they're one of those few things which add value to this forum.

 

You call it "social programming". I call it society evolving to "social justice" . 

Its sad that other people getting equal rights as you is seen as "social programming' by you. Isn't sikhi about protecting and fighting for underprivileged and oppressed. As a sikh, you should rather be atleast tolerant and supportive of LGBT rights, if not an activist . 

Karl Marx was not hero for homosexuals.  Communist countries have a history of persecution of homosexuals . Modern day china and russia don't allow gay pride marches. So much for communists love for homosexuals. It doesn't exist ! 

Please stop this scare threat of society destruction just because homosexuals got equal rights in western hemisphere. Its really disappointing to see sikhs act this way when our faith teaches us the opposite. 

I am not playing any games uncle ji ! Just trying to educate you .

At least you were cordial and level headed in your reply. I disagree with most of what you've expressed, but I respect the manner in which you've fought your corner and responded to me.

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5 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

At least you were cordial and level headed in your reply. I disagree with most of what you've expressed, but I respect the manner in which you've fought your corner and responded to me.

I would like you to do a small experiment, right now, without moving from where you're sitting .

Take a loot at your right hand , isn't the ring finger longer than the index one ? most likely yes !

In case of gay men, its the opposite in many cases. Index finger longer than ring finger. Even mine too.

Digit ratio is a sign of pre-natal testosterone levels. 

I am gay , not because its a "lifestyle", but just because I received lesser washes of androgens in the womb  than you did or other straight men did .

As a consequent my brain is a little feminized . Will you blame me for it ? 

BTW, just asking, you don't call a black man as "living a black lifestyle" , do you ? 

 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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22 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I would like you to do a small experiment, right now, without moving from where you're sitting .

Take a loot at your right hand , isn't the ring finger longer than the index one ? most likely yes !

In case of gay men, its the opposite in many cases. Index finger longer than ring finger. Even mine too.

Digit ratio is a sign of pre-natal testosterone levels. 

I am gay , not because its a "lifestyle", but just because I received lesser washes of androgens in the womb  than you did or other straight men did .

As a consequent my brain is a little feminized . Will you blame me for it ? 

BTW, just asking, you don't call a black man as "living a black lifestyle" , do you ? 

 

Like I said I don't refute the biology of it, neither do I have issues with homosexuals as individuals. There have been many greatly talented people throughout history who have been gay. What you struggle to see about the politicising of homosexuality - because you've latched onto the ideology as a lifeblood of sort - is how it has and will damage society as a collective. I sincerely believe homosexuality was the test case manufactured by the establishment to relax sexual mores of civilised society. In essence, I expect paedophilia to be legalized within my lifetime, and we will be able to pinpoint the promotion and normalisation of homosexuality as the root cause of such a horrific event coming to pass.  I use to roll my eyes at the foolishness of such a statement only a few years ago. But with each passing year, the "slippery slope" argument grows closer to becoming a reality. I repeat: no hate for gays as people, but you ARE being manipulated for ends you can't or refuse to see due to the emotion involved.

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