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Some more Home Truths

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh

Re: the 'Meat Shop opening next to Gurdwara' thread on the main

There are 2 issues here; The first is that we are gonna have to get used to some very real issues coming our way during the next decade. Whats coming our way is entirely of our own making and the next generation will look back at our mistakes of today and wonder how we could have been so short-sighed, ignorant and ill-informed. Whats happening and will continue to happen in places like Southall and Handsworth is that there are 20 times more Gurdwaras than are needed. To constantly open more and more Gurdwaras in inner-city residential neighbourhoods based on Sikh demographics of the 1960's whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that old Sikh families of Southall and Handsworth are now mostly and increasingly found in the commuter belt of Surrey, Berkshire, Warwickshire and Staffordshire is blatantly asking for trouble in the future. Today the problem might be 'meat shops' but it doesn't take a genius to foresee how the same fate that befell Christian churches will also fall on our too many gurdwaras when they are all situated in areas where Sikhs no longer live.

The second point to remember is that unlike Canada and America etc we do not have zoning laws etc. Our history - mirrored in the history of the English language - is for residential streets to contain a haphazard mixture of places of worship, pubs, schools, clubs, meat shops, police stations and electricity sub-stations. The fact that members of our community decided to open a Gurdwara where for hundreds of years pubs, cigarettes and meat have been sold does not give them the right to dicatate what they would like to be sold nearby. If what is sold nearby is an issue for them they should have picked a more suitable location in the first place. The fact that members of our community decided to open a Gurdwara in a neighbourhood that is now majority black Jamaican and Muslim they can't now tell the local population they can't have a meat shop nearby when that local population love their meat and want a meat shop.

Our problems today are of our own making , i.e our badly-educated short-sighted outlook of yesteryear and today.

 

Re; the 'Jagsaw's Thread: An Apology' thread on the main page:

Apology accepted. None of that changes the fact however that we Sikhs need to understand how debate and discussion is not the same as arguing. Debate and discussion is vital to human development. It opens and expands our mind and enables us to think critically. This nasty habit in our community of stifling debate and equating it with anti-Sikh activity is already having a terrible negative effect on us intellectually with Hindus reaching the very top of society and hijab wearing Muslim females now increasingly taking up great positions in the fields of medicine and law leaving our religious with a terrible reputation of a badly educated community. To constantly cry "close this thread.....close that thread" every single time a remotely interesting discussion takes place on this 'discussion forum' is directly related to our national stereotype of a people lacking intellectual capability.

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh

Re; the 'TBH - What is happening to the Women' thread on the main page:

Genie said :

Quote

What I found more disturbing was that of that rupi kaur and putting up on instagram account a picture of her period stained pyjama's. That was truely perverse and disgusting akin to and comparable a man wearing his joggers with semen stains on it. Why would any right minded person do such a thing?

Two things here:

Firstly, how on earth do you compare perverted lustful male masturbation with something that half the population of the entire world does naturally every month as a way of preparing the body for pregnancy ? 

Secondly, what kind of a world do you live in which  female menstruation is seen as 'truly more perverse' than all the killing, destroying, stealing, cheating, drinking and drug-taking that the men get up to ?

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On 01/04/2017 at 4:21 PM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

Re: the 'Meat Shop opening next to Gurdwara' thread on the main

There are 2 issues here; The first is that we are gonna have to get used to some very real issues coming our way during the next decade. Whats coming our way is entirely of our own making and the next generation will look back at our mistakes of today and wonder how we could have been so short-sighed, ignorant and ill-informed. Whats happening and will continue to happen in places like Southall and Handsworth is that there are 20 times more Gurdwaras than are needed. To constantly open more and more Gurdwaras in inner-city residential neighbourhoods based on Sikh demographics of the 1960's whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that old Sikh families of Southall and Handsworth are now mostly and increasingly found in the commuter belt of Surrey, Berkshire, Warwickshire and Staffordshire is blatantly asking for trouble in the future. Today the problem might be 'meat shops' but it doesn't take a genius to foresee how the same fate that befell Christian churches will also fall on our too many gurdwaras when they are all situated in areas where Sikhs no longer live.

The second point to remember is that unlike Canada and America etc we do not have zoning laws etc. Our history - mirrored in the history of the English language - is for residential streets to contain a haphazard mixture of places of worship, pubs, schools, clubs, meat shops, police stations and electricity sub-stations. The fact that members of our community decided to open a Gurdwara where for hundreds of years pubs, cigarettes and meat have been sold does not give them the right to dicatate what they would like to be sold nearby. If what is sold nearby is an issue for them they should have picked a more suitable location in the first place. The fact that members of our community decided to open a Gurdwara in a neighbourhood that is now majority black Jamaican and Muslim they can't now tell the local population they can't have a meat shop nearby when that local population love their meat and want a meat shop.

Our problems today are of our own making , i.e our badly-educated short-sighted outlook of yesteryear and today.

 

Re; the 'Jagsaw's Thread: An Apology' thread on the main page:

Apology accepted. None of that changes the fact however that we Sikhs need to understand how debate and discussion is not the same as arguing. Debate and discussion is vital to human development. It opens and expands our mind and enables us to think critically. This nasty habit in our community of stifling debate and equating it with anti-Sikh activity is already having a terrible negative effect on us intellectually with Hindus reaching the very top of society and hijab wearing Muslim females now increasingly taking up great positions in the fields of medicine and law leaving our religious with a terrible reputation of a badly educated community. To constantly cry "close this thread.....close that thread" every single time a remotely interesting discussion takes place on this 'discussion forum' is directly related to our national stereotype of a people lacking intellectual capability.

In terms of location of gurdwarae, the issue at hand is that the older generation are the ones that for the most part will frequent the gurdwarae during the week as they for some reason like to live in these neighbourhoods. The inner city located gurdwarae are probably more suitable for the older generations as they are walkable or at least accessible via public transport.

The leafier suburbs would perhaps would be suitable for people with cars.

I think that Gurdwarae should be ideally be one that is acessible for the elderly and also one that has the car space facility for the weekend sangat.

Our community is in a transitional phase and I feel our gurdwarae will need to reflect that this transition. 

How this is done, I have no idea.

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Guest Jacfsing2
On 4/1/2017 at 11:21 AM, Guest Jagsaw_Singh said:

The second point to remember is that unlike Canada and America etc we do not have zoning laws etc. Our history - mirrored in the history of the English language - is for residential streets to contain a haphazard mixture of places of worship, pubs, schools, clubs, meat shops, police stations and electricity sub-stations. The fact that members of our community decided to open a Gurdwara where for hundreds of years pubs, cigarettes and meat have been sold does not give them the right to dicatate what they would like to be sold nearby.

If you guys don't have zoning laws, how do you expect for seperate places for Gurdwaras and a seperate place for other places.

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22 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

If you guys don't have zoning laws, how do you expect for seperate places for Gurdwaras and a seperate place for other places.

UK is a very old country where towas and cities developed when horses and carriages were dominant on our roads. Towns grew in an organic way so they were not particularly well planned.

North America for the most part has towns and cities that built in a planned way with grids. It would make zoning laws far better organised. 

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Guest Jagsaw_Singh

Re; the '...Eastern European Latvian sexully assaulted and murdered Pardeep Kaur of Hayes Southall ' thread on the main page :

Vadims Ruskuls Evil Eastern European Latvian sexually assaulted and murdered pardeep kaur of hayes southall

Firstly, this is such a  heart-breaking news story. The details of what occurred and how they occurred have left me truly saddened for that family.

When you read the reports of what happened it is then difficult to say anything else but I really do feel it is important to point out how this sister of ours fatally went through this ordeal at a location where her screams could not be heard because it was a bridge under a busy motorway. A year ago that same location housed nearly a hundred 'Sikhs from Punjab'. We....both me and YOU went on a mission to get those 'homeless sikhs' away from there because it was shaming us. On this forum we 'discussed' the shame of the 'homeless sikhs of London'. The Sikh TV Channel saw what was discussed here and then went on a major campaign and had live broadcasts in which they threw toblerone chocolate bars among other things at them before parading them in accommodation for the cameras. The Southall Gurdwara then also got involved in partnership with the Border Agency and offered them trouble free flights back to Punjab.  The end result was that we here on this forum had achieved our objective of clearing the shame of having homeless Fresh of the boats living under that bridge in Hayes.

After we achieved our objective our sister walked to work under that motorway bridge. The newspapers say she was screaming for help. There was no-one there to hear.

 

 

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On 05/04/2017 at 11:03 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

If you guys don't have zoning laws, how do you expect for seperate places for Gurdwaras and a seperate place for other places.

unfortunately as I have seen in Leytonstone , there was a church then a house plot came up and a gurdwara was made , as tie went on the two got on well and no problems . Then the two corner shops opposite were bought by muslims and became a masjid and a halal shop . Now parking is a major issue and there is a kind of hostility towards sangat of the either of the older establishments.

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Guest Jacfsing2
2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

unfortunately as I have seen in Leytonstone , there was a church then a house plot came up and a gurdwara was made , as tie went on the two got on well and no problems . Then the two corner shops opposite were bought by muslims and became a masjid and a halal shop . Now parking is a major issue and there is a kind of hostility towards sangat of the either of the older establishments.

Anyone can solve the Muslim problem easily, (through deportations), but how will you solve the issue these religious buildings being built in the same places as where porn in produced, where alcohol is made, or where night clubs are.

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2 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Anyone can solve the Muslim problem easily, (through deportations), but how will you solve the issue these religious buildings being built in the same places as where porn in produced, where alcohol is made, or where night clubs are.

truth is we are better off building gurdwarey in residental streets or in location which are not near shops/clubs ...

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1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Anyone can solve the Muslim problem easily, (through deportations)...

Yes, it's really that easy, isn't it? Just round them up and send them back. Job done.

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5 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Yes, it's really that easy, isn't it? Just round them up and send them back. Job done.

however there could be control of madrasa and mosques being opened in homes, shops etc ...shops have purpose permissions decided by local councils , and educational institutions/childcare facilities need to pass regular inspections how ever I haven't seen such rules being followed anywhere. within walking distance of 1/4 mile there are three or more mosques , th.e density is ridiculous. There is a madrasa in an unlabelled shop on the main shopping parade near me , I've never seen anyone apart from students and young children coming out

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53 minutes ago, YOYO29 said:

yeah only sikhs should be allowed in UK.Muslim should be deported lol  hypocrisy at best

never said that , however planning laws being flaunted by them left right and centre...

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11 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

never said that , however planning laws being flaunted by them left right and centre...

good to know and i agreed if you are coming to western country you should abide by their rules not try to change them according to your religion.It is insulting.

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Guest London_jwaan
On 4/8/2017 at 10:34 AM, jkvlondon said:

never said that , however planning laws being flaunted by them left right and centre...

Which laws specifically? If you're so sure that laws have been broken, then report it.

*EDITED*

Wjkk wjkf

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