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I was reading some gurbani quotes on feminism etc and one quote stuck out:

jit jameh raajaan

Guru Nanak empowered women by saying "from her kings are born" and previously within this Bhangti Maharaj empowers women through the experience of men, noting that when a man's wife dies he seeks another woman so he is bound to woman. During the times of Guru Nanak these words were revolutionary... but now is it not fair to say that empowering woman through powerful men is somewhat outdated? And therefore should we read GGSJ in the context of when it was written. 
 

Bhul Chuk Maaf karo

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monatosingh    98

We read the SGGSJ no matter how long ago it was written.

We should always mark the Guru's words and keep it as strict rehit.

To Waheguru we are all equal, no matter what our gender, ethnicity, race and/or religion is.

Edited by monatosingh

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jkvlondon    3,468

You also have to think that back in the day Kings had to be qualified by being dharmic also vidhvaan and jodhe BEFORE being considered worthy to lead a kingdom  so this not about power but depth of character impeccable ethics and wisdom . All those internal qualities are born in the mother to be passed to the sons and daughters. Think of Bacchitar Natak Mata Gujri was named in the reason why Akal Purakh sent Guru ji to the world again... Reading Bhand Jamiy Bhand Nimiye on a superficial level may not make one realise just how deep the gift of womankind is ... Please DO NOT use second/third wave Feminism to judge Jug Jug Atal Guru Granth Sahib ji  , because  they have failed where Guru ji is still empowering women truly.

Edited by jkvlondon

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Kira    1,247
31 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

You also have to think that back in the day Kings had to be qualified by being dharmic also vidhvaan and jodhe BEFORE being considered worthy to lead a kingdom  so this not about power but depth of character impeccable ethics and wisdom . All those internal qualities are born in the mother to be passed to the sons and daughters. Think of Bacchitar Natak Mata Gujri was named in the reason why Akal Purakh sent Guru ji to the world again... Reading Bhand Jamiy Bhand Nimiye on a superficial level may not make one realise just how deep the gift of womankind is ... Please DO NOT use second/third wave Feminism to judge Jug Jug Atal Guru Granth Sahib ji  , because  they have failed where Guru ji is still empowering women truly.

So true. Even Dasam Bani address Akaal Purkh in a feminine form to show that while woman are capable of loving, they are also capable of destroying and protecting. Chandi Charitar was immensely important in that, despite all her faults Durga was a seasoned warrior, a skilled fighter and immensely powerful. To the point She obliterated 3 top king demons who even men couldn't kill.

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jkvlondon    3,468
37 minutes ago, Kira said:

So true. Even Dasam Bani address Akaal Purkh in a feminine form to show that while woman are capable of loving, they are also capable of destroying and protecting. Chandi Charitar was immensely important in that, despite all her faults Durga was a seasoned warrior, a skilled fighter and immensely powerful. To the point She obliterated 3 top king demons who even men couldn't kill.

and even the king of Devte couldn't kill

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Jacfsing2    1,884
2 hours ago, BeantSingh20 said:

WJKK WJKF 

I was reading some gurbani quotes on feminism etc and one quote stuck out:

jit jameh raajaan

Guru Nanak empowered women by saying "from her kings are born" and previously within this Bhangti Maharaj empowers women through the experience of men, noting that when a man's wife dies he seeks another woman so he is bound to woman. During the times of Guru Nanak these words were revolutionary... but now is it not fair to say that empowering woman through powerful men is somewhat outdated? And therefore should we read GGSJ in the context of when it was written. 
 

Bhul Chuk Maaf karo

Women aren't treated equal to men in western society; if you thought that then you are brainwashed by lower levels of equality from Gurbani, in the west it means sex, in Gurmat it is practical! Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's ideals were not revolutionary just then but even now, because now people are completely brainwashed; if a Sikh followed Guru Sahib completely they'd be called a radical. The world has actually gone downwards since the first Guru has come and the only thing that is keeping Earth on its feet from completely collapsing; (if you believe in Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaarans), is Guru Sahib is the only one tilting the balance to keep earth going. And just a benti don't refer to my king as "GGSJ", especially when you put Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's name by name. Also your western feminism will end one day especially with your lot letting Muslims take over; however, my Guru won't ever end for all of eternity and will give a superior ideology than your Feminazis could ever imagine.

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16 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Women aren't treated equal to men in western society; if you thought that then you are brainwashed by lower levels of equality from Gurbani, in the west it means sex, in Gurmat it is practical! Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's ideals were not revolutionary just then but even now, because now people are completely brainwashed; if a Sikh followed Guru Sahib completely they'd be called a radical. The world has actually gone downwards since the first Guru has come and the only thing that is keeping Earth on its feet from completely collapsing; (if you believe in Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaarans), is Guru Sahib is the only one tilting the balance to keep earth going. And just a benti don't refer to my king as "GGSJ", especially when you put Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji's name by name. Also your western feminism will end one day especially with your lot letting Muslims take over; however, my Guru won't ever end for all of eternity and will give a superior ideology than your Feminazis could ever imagine.

You're not addressing the point though. Should Gurbani be read in context. Should we read certain lines like this one through the eyes of somebody in the 1400's?

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2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

You also have to think that back in the day Kings had to be qualified by being dharmic also vidhvaan and jodhe BEFORE being considered worthy to lead a kingdom  so this not about power but depth of character impeccable ethics and wisdom . All those internal qualities are born in the mother to be passed to the sons and daughters. Think of Bacchitar Natak Mata Gujri was named in the reason why Akal Purakh sent Guru ji to the world again... Reading Bhand Jamiy Bhand Nimiye on a superficial level may not make one realise just how deep the gift of womankind is ... Please DO NOT use second/third wave Feminism to judge Jug Jug Atal Guru Granth Sahib ji  , because  they have failed where Guru ji is still empowering women truly.

So you're saying we do need to read gurbani using contextual knowledge? I had no idea Kings had to be qualified by their level of their dharam. So is the answer yes? 

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jkvlondon    3,468
2 minutes ago, BeantSingh20 said:

You're not addressing the point though. Should Gurbani be read in context. Should we read certain lines like this one through the eyes of somebody in the 1400's?

no Gurbani is timeless...because the truth will always be true . look at the other side being pointed out man cannot survive with his counterpart , he needs to be complete . i.e. Worldly power is incomplete without gurmat gian

Edited by jkvlondon

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2 hours ago, monatosingh said:

We read the SGGSJ no matter how long ago it was written.

We should always mark the Guru's words and keep it as strict rehit.

To Waheguru we are all equal, no matter what our gender, ethnicity, race and/or religion is.

Of course we read it... but do we apply a 1400's thinking or attitude to certain lines in order to fully assimilate the meaning of MAhraj's words?

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jkvlondon    3,468
2 minutes ago, BeantSingh20 said:

So you're saying we do need to read gurbani using contextual knowledge? I had no idea Kings had to be qualified by their level of their dharam. So is the answer yes? 

Don't modern leaders get judged according to their ethics and gunn as humans?

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jkvlondon    3,468
2 minutes ago, BeantSingh20 said:

Of course we read it... but do we apply a 1400's thinking or attitude to certain lines in order to fully assimilate the meaning of MAhraj's words?

1400's attitude was antithetical too this so no that doesn't make sense 

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Jacfsing2    1,884
11 minutes ago, BeantSingh20 said:

You're not addressing the point though. Should Gurbani be read in context. Should we read certain lines like this one through the eyes of somebody in the 1400's?

What context are you talking about? The world only looks like it changed but really humans are still the same. We read Gurbani not from the contextual standpoint like Christians, but rather as something that's never changing. Also just because Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji revealed himself in 1400s doesn't mean he thought anything like those people. The Gurbani context doesn't work from a historical standpoint, but rather a spiritual one, (even Sri Dasam Granth isn't a historical text, but rather one based on the internal individual and Vaheguru). Also there are some Sikhs who still think like ancient pre-Sikh times, so you aren't really making a point.

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Akalifauj    791
2 hours ago, BeantSingh20 said:

WJKK WJKF 

I was reading some gurbani quotes on feminism etc and one quote stuck out:

jit jameh raajaan

Guru Nanak empowered women by saying "from her kings are born" and previously within this Bhangti Maharaj empowers women through the experience of men, noting that when a man's wife dies he seeks another woman so he is bound to woman. During the times of Guru Nanak these words were revolutionary... but now is it not fair to say that empowering woman through powerful men is somewhat outdated? And therefore should we read GGSJ in the context of when it was written. 
 

Bhul Chuk Maaf karo

Gurbani must be read in the context it is written and then interpreted.  Starting from the beginning of the Shabad to the last line.  Taking one tuk from the middle of the Shabad out of context produces doubts as you have above.  Ever seen constitutional lawyers fight over the law of the land?  Many times one lawyer is taking the law in question out of context by stressing one word to support his thought what the law should say.  

The tuk you are talking about starts off by saying, from woman a man is born.  This right here says nothing about powerful men.  This includes every man from the alley junky to the king who runs the land.  Then Guru Sahib goes further and elaborates on how a woman plays many roles in a man's life.  The touchstone point to the arrogant man, Guru Sahib says even woman give birth to Kings.  It's telling the men that hate women, who is known as poster Mahakaal on this site.....you are a lowly peasant of the king and a woman giving birth to the king becomes higher?  Some feminist take this line and tell men they are lower than women because you came from me.  To such women Guru Sahib says, Only Vaheguru is without a woman.  This slaps down the egotistical woman to say you came from Vaheguru and so did the man.  Both came from the same source, neither are higher.  Guru Sahib is speaking to all of humanity regardless of status.  What has changed today?  Before the leader of lands were called King's, today they are called Prime Minister's and Presidents.   Gurbani is and will be read from the historical perspective.  But Gurbani is not bound to the historical surroundings and has a universal message for everyone regardless of time.   

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Akalifauj    791
3 hours ago, BeantSingh20 said:

WJKK WJKF 

I was reading some gurbani quotes on feminism etc and one quote stuck out:

Also please stop putting Gurbani into these labels of feminism.  Gurbani doesn't support feminism.  Feminism is stuck in worldly wants and needs.  Gurbani connects a person to Vaheguru while a person is renting a temporal body.  Women and men come from the one source so they are given equal opportunity to unite back with Vaheguru.  In a perfect world where everyone is treated fairly, will such a thing as feminism exist? NO!!!  Yet in this perfect world all people will still have to connect to Gurbani to unite with Vaheguru.  My point, if not clear from above, Gurbani is Gurbani and can't be put in labels from eastern or western concepts.      

Edited by Akalifauj

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