SIKH WOMEN GATHER AT MAI BHAGO RETREAT

[MisterrSingh]

Can we remain on-topic instead of turning this thread into another crapfest destined for closure? 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

57 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Oh really? Better to read history! Prior to 1699 masands were given authority to confer Amrit by charan Amrit in absence of the Guru. Did you know that there were women masands who had all the authority of the male masands?? One in fact was in charge of Sikhs in kashmir and yes she had authority to confer charan Amrit. It's a matter of general knowledge here. 

Massands were proven to be Anti-Gurmat, for this very reason? Only Guru Sahib can give Amrit; this is proven in Gurbani 24/7 when imperfect humans start putting their feet in water, and calling it Amrit then we have problems. Guru Sahib is allowed to give Amrit because he is God's form.

1 hour ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Ummm women already CAN be Panj Pyaras so it's a moot point. Only small amount of Sikhs are Taksalis. What they do is their own business. 

I was asking what is so scary to singhs abouta Group of Kaurs getting together and speaking about equality? 

And justajatt: what exactly do you mean by roles? Women make the rotia and serve men while men do all the cool stuff and then give lip service trying to say making the rotia and serving men is worth just as much?? Haha maybe Someone should have told Mai Bhago to stay home and continuing making the rotia because that's her 'role'?? 

Nihangs also don't believe in female Punj Pyare; the only groups that do believe in it are man-made Jathas and not Jathas made by Vaheguru; Taksali and Nihangs; (note, not all Nihangs were formed by Guru Sahib).

23 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Can we remain on-topic instead of turning this thread into another crapfest destined for closure? 

+1, nobody should be changing the topic, but O.P. really got to stop msking threads like this; he has not even bothered to post anything in this topic he knew would lead into a fight. (I'd give him 9000 troll points for this).

[MisterrSingh]

43 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

...but O.P. really got to stop msking threads like this; he has not even bothered to post anything in this topic he knew would lead into a fight. (I'd give him 9000 troll points for this).

I don't disagree with OP for making these threads. There are valid discussions to be had on issues such as these. The problem is there aren't discussions and exchanges of opinions and ideas taking place. What's happening is people trying to be clever and play games. There's no desire for vichaar between brothers and sisters; it's typical Internet posturing and promotion of certain ways hidden by agendas and doublespeak. 

[jkvlondon]

For Harkiran ,

This retreat is just for leaders not AAM Kaurs so I reject it on the basis it undermines the other Kaurs as  not being as important as these individual self-appointed Leaders . Just because I claim I am a leader does it make me so ?

If they were so concerned they would create workshops to introduce Aam Kaurs to leadership roles and the necessary skills , create networks to support all lonely females in their sikhi etc , instead of what could become a haumai fest in the name of sikhi.

Don't you think all people need langar ? in the jungles the SInghs were making langar , in the Homes the women were making langar NONE of them saw anything wrong in it as it was NECESSARY  . If you are going to be so infantile to chuck a wobbly over cooking when it was totally interchangeable  when needed (all my male relatives cook , fact it was my Dad who taught me how to make atta and rotian) , what hope have you to convince people you are  a capable calm under fire person? 

The main fight ahead of sikh females is the increased sikhi illiteracy/apostacy of our sisters  , we could devote time alongside family duties into doing gurbani vichar, authoring instructional texts, generating new history texts , inspirational art, caligraphy, poetry , becoming the linguists the panth need, the researchers . SIkhi needs a renaissance and diaspora females could be an essential key. we have access to schools which teach document/art preservation , how to restore artifacts and keep them in correct conditions . We could be the end of the marblisation of our history ...

This week I was on the point of tears when I saw the insulting sight of a choola of Guru ji's family apparently Mata Gujri cooked on a choola made of white marble ....

This the state of play , they are bulldozing our history away and replacing it with touristically friendly white marble monstrosities , rewriting texts to cast many doubts in people's minds , our language is maligned as coarse. 

Forget fighting people about small potatoes , let's try to be farsighted ...and see the bigger picture.

 

 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Just now, MisterrSingh said:

I don't disagree with OP for making these threads. There are valid discussions to be had on issues such as these. The problem is there aren't discussions and exchanges of opinions and ideas taking place. What's happening is people trying to be clever and play games. There's no desire for vichaar between brothers and sisters; it's typical Internet posturing and promotion of certain ways hidden by agendas and doublespeak. 

If he joined the conversation; then I may hold some sympathy for him, but what he's doing is posting articles and not doing anything about it. He's making us do all the talking, without at least bringing himself in, (to be honest it seems like a bot, is producing his information),

[MisterrSingh]

5 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

If he joined the conversation; then I may hold some sympathy for him, but what he's doing is posting articles and not doing anything about it. He's making us do all the talking, without at least bringing himself in, (to be honest it seems like a bot, is producing his information),

It's a mild form of incitement. Like dropping a lit match into a room full of gas, lol. You can easily tell the ones who want to discuss things and improve their understanding of certain issues. Then there's the other kind who want to stir the pot.

[jkvlondon]

12 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

I'm not the domestic type sorry. I never will be able to stand by cooking and doing laundry while Singh's fight. I have 20 years military career. You think I should have been home cleaning and cooking instead?

I guess you wouldn't have kids either , read books, learn languages or do research because they are not GI Jane enough for you... there are loads of aspects to a sikh's life not just fighting . There is training, praying, teaching , learning etc etc 

[jkvlondon]

9 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

The Masands were given their authority BY THE GURU. Just because some became corrupt doesn't mean they were never given the authority to begin with! And for what very reason? You're suggesting that because women masands were initiating people that was the corruption???!!!! The corruption was some of them were taking money in return. Hence having five meant that could not happen or was very much less apt to happen. Having one person with all authority creates situation for corruption. Having five nearly eliminates it because they keep each other honest. That has nothing to do with gender however. And I don't really care what Taksalis or some Nigangs do to their women... makes no difference to me. They don't have a majority. Oh and the PANTH as a whole was created by Guru Ji not jathas or sects. 

HONESTLY STOP!  Being a sikh woman is not a curse quite unlike you would have everyone believe , you cannot reinterpret history to suit a warped viewpoint ..... Sikh women are stronger than steel without having to whine and complain ..we do not deny our male siblings skills /history/roles  in the panth but look to them as partners to build a stronger panth.

 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

23 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

HONESTLY STOP!  Being a sikh woman is not a curse quite unlike you would have everyone believe , you cannot reinterpret history to suit a warped viewpoint ..... Sikh women are stronger than steel without having to whine and complain ..we do not deny our male siblings skills /history/roles  in the panth but look to them as partners to build a stronger panth.

 

Arguing with her is pointless; she keeps repeating the same lies over and over again; and that is Guru Sahib didn't create Damdami Taksal; if she's denying history that basic which is common sense; does anyone really have time to argue with her? Next she's going to deny Baba Deep Singh Ji, (first Jathedar of Damdami Taksal as well as Taruna Dal), fought with his hand on his head and that he fought headless, (because feminism and hate to Taksal and Nihangs). Our Kaurs were so amazing that even the Hindu and Muslim Khatri and Brahmin women were jealous of their freedom.

[jkvlondon]

20 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Freedom maybe but still seen as subordinate. 

only in your eyes , you are guilty of what you accuse others of ... does a lioness end up  being weak in your eyes even though they are how the whole pride prospers , and how does she do that , looking after the young , whilst sourcing sustenance through her own physical prowess and intelligence  ?