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London attack: Four dead in Westminster terror incident

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53 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Of course, as long as we have tough guys like yourself, we have nothing to worry about.

You do harp on this 5hite hitting the fan a lot, just wondering if it happens whether you are going be there at the front or if you are just talk.

You sound like someone who is itching for a fight. I can guarantee if push comes to shove those "soft" Sikhs will show more balls than talkers like yourself.

For all the faults of our people, and boy do we love to whine, we do a lot of things right and we do it better than a lot of people.

I prefer to look at the glass half full rather than the glass half empty.

 

Well, I just hope those 'soft' Sikhs don't fold like unexperienced pajamay if the time comes. Are you one of them by the way? 

If you think we don't need more sharp 'tough' apnay, (if that's how you want to put it) in this day and age, you must be more thick than you appear.

 

I ain't itching for a fight - but I know there are loads of people on the other sides who are. Face up to it. 

 

Edited by dallysingh101

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15 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Well, I just hope those 'soft' Sikhs don't fold like unexperienced pajamay if the time comes. Are you one of them by the way? 

If you think we don't need more sharp 'tough' apnay, (if that's how you want to put it) in this day and age, you must be more thick than you appear.

 

I ain't itching for a fight - but I know there are loads of people on the other sides who are. Face up to it. 

 

I have seen plenty tough Sikhs out there and there are plenty of them around doing what is needed when they have to.

But they don't go on like yourself.

I've seen your type before. You are just a keyboard warrior, you talk a good game.

I am under no illusions of how hard or how soft I am. I give as good as I get and got the scars to prove it.

Everyone's gotta a plan until they get punched in the face.

 

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Just now, Ranjeet01 said:

I have seen plenty tough Sikhs out there and there are plenty of them around doing what is needed when they have to.

But they don't go on like yourself.

I've seen your type before. You are just a keyboard warrior, you talk a good game.

I am under no illusions of how hard or how soft I am. I give as good as I get and got the scars to prove it.

Everyone's gotta a plan until they get punched in the face.

 

Good. 

Now stop acting like a pu55y because someone is trying to give hordes of our other closeted brothers a heads up on what might come. 

I don't talk a good game, I live the life, from young too. Didn't have a f**kin option w**ker. 

It's sad that people like me have to even do this, because it's really (yet another) failure of our lot to confront reality. And don't talk your sh1t about the glass being half full. It took decades just to get apnay to face up to grooming when it was rampant in our society, and they still struggle with it. 

Next time don't b1tch out because someone's doing the sh1t (but important) work people like you seem incapable of. 

Dumb farmer. 

 

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3 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Good. 

Now stop acting like a pu55y because someone is trying to give hordes of our other closeted brothers a heads up on what might come. 

I don't talk a good game, I live the life, from young too. Didn't have a f**kin option w**ker. 

It's sad that people like me have to even do this, because it's really (yet another) failure of our lot to confront reality. And don't talk your sh1t about the glass being half full. It took decades just to get apnay to face up to grooming when it was rampant in our society, and they still struggle with it. 

Next time don't b1tch out because someone's doing the sh1t (but important) work people like you seem incapable of. 

Dumb farmer. 

 

Are you a Bhatra by any chance?

It will explain a lot.

 

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9 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Are you a Bhatra by any chance?

It will explain a lot.

 

 

13 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Dumb farmer. 

 

 

Come on guys both of you make valid contributions on various topics but can you stop dragging the thread into a personal attacks against each other. Lets keep it civil and control the kahrod. And just agree to disagree...

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2 minutes ago, genie said:

 

 

Come on guys both of you make valid contributions on various topics but can you stop dragging the thread into a personal attacks against each other. Lets keep it civil and control the kahrod. And just agree to disagree...

I am OK with Dally. 

Brothers disagree on things from time to time.

This dumb farmer has some gardening to do 😉

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3 minutes ago, Preeet said:

Can you guys share opinions without insulting each other?? 

Dally's background is Bhatra, they are not like mainstream Sikhs.

They are quite insular and tribal in their thinking  and I think he finds certain traits unusual in most of us other Sikhs, particularly with Jatts.

Which I think is one of the reasons he finds a lot of the traits in Muslims quite appealing because they are very similar to Sikhs of his background. 

He is also an inner-city Sikh, very much "ghetto" from my interactions with him.

I think he finds it very difficult to digest the fact that most Sikhs have moved on from the "ghetto", he still lives in it.

 

 

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Anyone else noticed the unconscious cultural and social effect of the masculine and dominant image of Islam having an impact on the cultural milieu in the West, the most noticeable sign being the adoption of facial hair - beards - by whites across various social and class divisions?

I'm no psychologist, but i think it's hilarious to notice how whites have been subconsciously influenced by various media of apparently hyper-masculine Islamists over the past 15 or so years, doing all sorts of things that westerners are conditioned to eschew as brutal and backwards, yet over this period of time beards have become this fashionable accessory amongst males in the west, almost as if a beard by itself is enough to paper over the lack of inner masculinity that's being wrung out of western males by an increasingly feminised culture and society. They're adopting the appearance of the very people they ostensibly would never identify with, and they can't even see they're doing it, lmao. That's the power that culture has over a person. Fascinating. 

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8 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Anyone else noticed the unconscious cultural and social effect of the masculine and dominant image of Islam having an impact on the cultural milieu in the West, the most noticeable sign being the adoption of facial hair - beards - by whites across various social and class divisions?

I'm no psychologist, but i think it's hilarious to notice how whites have been subconsciously influenced by various media of apparently hyper-masculine Islamists over the past 15 or so years, doing all sorts of things that westerners are conditioned to eschew as brutal and backwards, yet over this period of time beards have become this fashionable accessory amongst males in the west, almost as if a beard by itself is enough to paper over the lack of inner masculinity that's being wrung out of western males by an increasingly feminised culture and society. They're adopting the appearance of the very people they ostensibly would never identify with, and they can't even see they're doing it, lmao. That's the power that culture has over a person. Fascinating. 

bro hipsters aren't doing cos of effect of Muslaman but steampunk trend which looks at the feel of Victorian/Edwardian era and mixes it up with a modern twist ...ALL goray sported some facial hair and very managed like the lamb chops, handle bar moustaches, goatees and beards .back then as they didn't want to be feminine ...then the 1900s and by the twenties everything was androgynous

 

Edited by jkvlondon

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23 minutes ago, genie said:

 

 

Come on guys both of you make valid contributions on various topics but can you stop dragging the thread into a personal attacks against each other. Lets keep it civil and control the kahrod. And just agree to disagree...

I feel like many apnay get insecure and scared when another apna points out just how unprepared we are as a society for any craziness that might happen out there - that is the root of Ranjeet's issues. I'm not in this boat myself because I was fortunate enough to meet some far-sighted and intelligent brothers in the past, and I don't physically laze about either. 

We need a community wide discussion about this to avoid a false sense of security. We have lessons from all those Delhi Sikhs in 1984 to remind us of what having our heads in cloud cuckoo land can lead to.  Now I don't think it will boil down to anything more than opportunist attacks on vulnerable Sikhs here in the UK, in a worse case scenario (by either goray or sullay), but Ranjeet crying because I've pointed out how effeminate we've become is ridiculous. Don't shoot the messenger - and I walk the walk.  Also, dispassionately and honestly analysing the strengths and weaknesses of Islamists isn't a stupid idea either. Underestimating them is as foolish as inflating their capabilities. Same with any other potential threats, like racist goray.

I thought this thread was informative, especially as the majority of apnay are closeted and a lot of these types use the internet quite a bit - but obviously ranjeet sees it differently.  

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16 minutes ago, Preeet said:

I can see why you are thinking that about Bhatra(s), in fact Ive been bullied by a Bhatra in school before.. Makes me surprised to why he does not talk about his own caste as much as he does when it comes to Jats. & when it comes to caste anyways, it's silly how some say that they aren't real, but then they continue to generalize and regard people by their caste. But whatever, I judge people individually, and when it comes to people who use profanity, that is not a very good lakshan if you claim to be religious. "41. Kaurha bachan nahee kahinaa - Do not speak in bitterness." 

I bear no resentment towards Dally.

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18 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

bro hipsters aren't doing cos of effect of Muslaman but steampunk trend which looks at the feel of Victorian/Edwardian era and mixes it up with a modern twist ...ALL goray sported some facial hair and very managed like the lamb chops, handle bar moustaches, goatees and beards .back then as they didn't want to be feminine ...then the 1900s and by the twenties everything was androgynous

 

I knew someone would mention hipsters, but this phenomenon is beyond the posing of that particular group. Yeah, some of it is a cyclical, fashion thing, but not all of it. There's white men who can't express any of their inner aggression in any meaningful way, and they see these images and videos of bearded men killing and destroying things, and the timid amongst them are stirred to emulate that particular image, because they know there's no other way they can hope to project an image of masculinity beyond their appearance. Sportsmen, actors, students, they're all doing it. And it's the long, unrestricted Asian type beards, not the uber-styled types in fashion magazines.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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13 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I bear no resentment towards Dally.

I ain't got no problem with you. If we are going to discuss important things, of course things may get heated sometimes. Yeah, brothers do argue - sometimes more than others because closeness does that. 

But as long as important stuff is uncovered in these discussions - it's all good to me. 

For the record, I don't find 'those traits' in Muslims appealing - I'm just acknowledging successful strategies on their part.  We'd be fools not to see them. 

30 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

...then the 1900s and by the twenties everything was androgynous

I bet you this was because closet gays infiltrated the establishment by then and subtly promoted effeminate males. Like the gay run fashion industry has been for the past few decades. 

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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

 

I bet you this was because closet gays infiltrated the establishment by then and subtly promoted effeminate males. Like the gay run fashion industry has been for the past few decades. 

You'd be surprised. Most mainstream Homosexuals actually hate that stereotype of them. They think this weird branch of "gay pride" thats sweeping the media is nothing more than a curse for them.

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On 3/24/2017 at 4:00 PM, MisterrSingh said:

Once you start falling down that rabbit hole, you'll struggle to comprehend even the most straightforward events occurring before your eyes. Not everything is a conspiracy. The question you should be asking is "How did this all begin, and why?" not "Is what I'm seeing real?" You're missing the point entirely if that's how you're approaching this situation.

What is the point, please?

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  • Topics

  • Posts

    • As per usual,  our openness and tolerance is seen as weakness for others, and they take full advantage. 
    • This is nothing new. I tried setting up an initiative to defeat this trend; happened a good few years back on this forum, but some of us decided to establish a body of sorts which would publish and distribute literature regarding the falsity spread by other faiths vis-a-vis Sikhi. Because we were based in different countries we used to stay in contact via email to exchange ideas and finalize publications in our own respective countries. I wrote and dispatched a particular article on the falsity that Bhagat Fareed was a hardcore Muslim and by incorporating his Bani into the Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Sikh Gurus proved their respect for Islam and hence all Sikhs should become Muslims. Here are some examples of what I wrote: "For Bhagat Farid, and Sufis in general, life is but nihilistic. Such a perception, logically, leads to renunciation and asceticism. Farid asserts:

      'Farid, had my throat been slit on the same day as my umbilical cord, I would not have been prey to trouble nor weathered such hardship. Farid, I alone thought I was in pain, but the whole world is in pain. I ascended my roof and witnessed each and every house in flame.' 
      -Saloks 76 and 81, ASGGS, Ang. 1381-82.

      When Guru Nanak Dev Ji had entered Multan, the local Sufis had tried to eject him on the pretext of his criticism of the Sufi order. The Guru had rejected their renunciation and described their acts of obeisance as charades. With this particular incident in mind, Guru Arjan Dev Ji elected to reply to Farid with the following:

      'The world is akin to a garden, Farid, in which poisonous plants take root. They for whom the Master cares suffer not at all.' 

      And:

      'How sweet be this life oh Farid! With health the body blooms, but they who love their dear beloved Lord are rarely found.' 
      -Mohalla 5, Saloks 82-83, ASGGS, Ang. 1382.

      The writings of Farid were incorporated into the Sikh canon to refute the notion that life, in general, is painful. For the Gurus life is what one makes out of it. Ignorance, naturally, leads to pain whilst knowledge leads to joy. By positing their views below Farids', the Sikh Gurus refuted the Sufi notion of life being suffering in toto.'   "The Sufi path of asceticism is best summed up in the following conversation between Sayid Muhammad Gesu Daraz and a suppliant. Daraz was the acolyte of Shaikh Farid Nasir-u'd-Din-Chiarg-i-Delhi, the disciple of Nizam-u'd-din Auliya who was the successor to Baba Farid. This conversation is recorded in the 'Jawama-u'l-Kilam' and focuses on the physical suffering weathered by Baba Farid in his search for the Divine. Pledging his mind to the Lord's path, the latter Farid hung upside down in a well for forty days and nights. 

      'Then one day when Sayid Muhammad Gesu Daraz was recounting the pledge of (Baba Farid), a man queried: "how is it that blood does not run out of the eyes and mouth of the person who undertakes it and how is it that foodstuff and other bodily elements do not come out of him?" The Saint explained that in a body as emaciated as that of Farid, the question of food and blood no longer lingers as austerities have reduced such a body to mere skeleton.' 

      Bhagat Farid writes:

      'Farid, if one were to hack my body, not a drop of blood would ooze from it. Those who are imbued with the Lord's love have no blood left in their beings.' 
      -Salok 51, ASGGS, Ang. 1380.

      Guru Amardass Ji comments on this Shabad in the following way:

      'The body is all blood, without blood it cannot exist. Those who are imbued with the Lord's love have not a single drop of selfish blood in their bodies. When the fear of Divine enters one's being, it becomes emaciated, and the blood of greed departs. As flames purify metal, so too does the fear of the Divine cast out impure inclinations. They alone are beautiful, Nanak, who are dyed with the love of the Lord.'
      -Mohalla 3, ASGGS, Salok 52, Ang. 1380. 

      Farid's ascetic undertones are sidelined, by the Guru, to provide a more rational interpretation of his words. Farid's "blood" becomes "selfish blood" and the external is transformed into the internal. It is not the physical frame which matters but the internal, the spiritual. Only through spiritual austerities can inimical inclinations depart; physical austerities only invite weakness and prolonged suffering."   "Now, we will look at the Bani of Bhagat Farid along with the relevant commentary by the Sikh Gurus. 

      'Farid, she who did not enjoy her spouse when black-haired, will she enjoy him when grey-haired? Love the Lord with such love that your hair's color will never change!'
      -Salok 12, ASGGS, Ang. 1378.

      Bhagat Farid holds that youth is conducive to following the spiritual path, in old age it is a lost cause. Guru Amardass Ji, who became the third Nanak at the age of 72, provides a commentary on this shabad:

      'Farid, whether one's hair be black or grey, the Lord is ever present if one remembers him. True love does not come from one's own desire, that cup of the Master's love he himself gives to whomever he desires.'
      -Mohalla 3, Salok 13, ASGGS, Ang. 1378.

      Bhagat Farid believes effort to be necessary vis-a-vis the spiritual path; the Sikh Gurus concur but to an extent. All transpires due to the Divine Will and man's efforts have a limit. Divine Will is more pontificate than man's efforts; man should elect to reside in this will and recognize where effort ends. From a Nanakian perspective effort is necessary in the temporal paradigm, but in the spiritual paradigm success depends on the Divine initiative. Guru Nanak Dev Ji states:

      'Does it matter if one is a swan or heron on whom the Lord casts his glance? Sayeth Nanak that if he so desires, crowns turn into swans.'
      -Mohalla 1, Salok 124, ASGGS, Ang. 1384. 

      The Lord is supreme in all that he does.

      Bhagat Farid then utilizes martial scenery:

      'One who is not welcome by her in-laws, and who has not place at her parents' house; and whose spouse does not care an iota for her, is she truly a happily married wife?'
      -Salok 31, ASGGS, Ang. 1379. 

      The 'parents' house' symbolizes societal life, the 'in-laws' spiritual life and the 'spouse' the Lord. Bhagat Farid is commenting on those spiritualists, those devotees, who desire the best of both spiritualism and societal living. He feels that by pursuing both concepts, one ultimately fails in all that he/she commits to. Guru Nanak Dev Ji comments:

      'At her in-laws and at her parents' house, she belongs to her spouse, the Divine beloved who is inaccessible and unfathomable. Oh Nanak! That one is indeed a happily married bride, who pleases the indifferent one.'
      -Mohalla 1, Salok 32, ASGGS, Ang. 1379.

      In contrast to Farid, the Guru elaborates that via Divine Grace both the temporal and spiritual paradigms become successful for the devotees. The true spiritualist is one who pursues both fields rather than renouncing one over the other. Nonetheless, hypocrisy in both fields should be avoided."   "In Suhi Lalit, Bhagat Farid forewarns:

      'You could not construct a raft when required. Now that the ocean is full and overflowing, it is hard to traverse. Do not touch the saffron flower for it's color will depart, my beloved. Rahau.
      The bride is weak and her husband's command is too hard to bear. As the milk does not return to her breast, nor will the soul return to the body. Sayeth Farid, friends, when the spouse calls this soul departeth crestfallen and the body is reduced to ashes.'
      -Suhi Lalit 1, ASGGS, Ang. 794.

      Guru Nanak Dev Ji, prior to Farid's verse, expounds:

      'Make meditation and restraint the raft via which to traverse the flowing stream. Your pass will be comfortable as if there is no ocean or overflowing stream. Your name alone is the unfading matter with which this cloak is dyed; my Beloved Lord, this color is perennial. My dear companions have departed, how will they meet the Lord? If they are united in virtue, the Lord will unite them with himself. Once united the mortal does not separate if the union be true. The cycle of birth and death is nullified by the True, Eternal Lord. She who removes her own self-centrism sews herself a garment to please her spouse. By the Guru's words, she obtained the fruit of the nectar of the Lord's word. Sayeth Nanak, my companions, my spouse be dear to me. We be the Lord's handmaidens; he our husband.'
      -Mohalla 1, Suhi 4, Ang. 729.

      Bhagat Farid provides a picture of doom and gloom by lamenting lost opportunities. He focuses on old age, where mental and physical faculties are too frail to be attuned to Divine contemplation. Guru Nanak Dev Ji, instead, expounds that it is never too late to focus on the Lord (one should remember Guru Amardass Ji here) for the Beloved is not harsh nor his commands. Via the saffron flower, Bhagat Farid warns of the fleeting pleasures of the world -here today, gone tomorrow- Guru Nanak Dev Ji instead elaborates that all pleasures belong to the Lord and via merging with him, all pleasures become permanent for he is the highest pleasure of all. 

      For Farid, death is the final test; even the faithful, in his view, should fear it for the soul never returns to the body. Guru Nanak Dev Ji however believes death to be a joy and a privilege of the valorous, for it is via death that one perfects his/her union with the Divine.

      From a Nanakian perspective, Farids's words apply to the manmukh and not the Gurmukh. But even a manmukh is worthy of Divine Grace, provided he recants at the ultimate moment."   "Bhagat Farid, a Sufi, informs us:

      'My physical frame is oven-hot; my bones are the firewood. If my feet fail, I shall walk upon my head to meet my Beloved.'
      -Salok 119, ASGGS, Ang. 1384.

      Bhagat Farid utilizes the metaphor of a kiln to depict his love for the Lord. A Sufi, his ascetic concepts however were not in line with Gurmat. Guru Nanak Dev Ji refutes his call for such asceticism by commenting:

      'Do not heat your physical frame oven-hot; burn not your bones like firewood. What harm have they committed that you torture them such? Rather behold the Beloved within your soul, Farid.'
      -Salok 120, ASGGS, Ang. 1384.

      Bhagat Farid is of the mind that the human body is but a prison and the soul it's captive. The Sikh Gurus believe that the human body is a temple, a locus where the Lord resides and awaits his devotee. By utilizing this Shabad of Farid, the Gurus desired that their Sikhs imbue the same zeal as the Sufi did whilst also discarding his asceticism; hence the refutation. Throughout Bhagat Bani we find a similar concept at play. The Sikh Gurus initiate a written dialogue with the radicals of their time and provide an unalloyed picture of the Divine Truth. For Farid, creation is a falsity; for the Gurus it is a truth. Farid's asceticism renders the body as simply an object; the Gurus however perceive it to be divine and encourage their Sikhs to employ it in the service of the Divine by societal living." I printed all this out in pamphlet form and took it to a local Nagar Kirtan when I was in Australia and man, some of the Muslims burned. A few confrontations occurred, "how can you say Guru Nanak was a non-Muslim?!" "Gobind Singh made you anti-Muslim." "Your history is a lie, all Gurus were Muslims and they even married Muslims!" Basically they were clutching at straws. The pamphlets were enough to make the Sikhs ignore these idiots and they grew worried and left the scene. Later a famous attendant Gyani, from Taksal (and who I will not name), got hold of one of the pamphlets. After having it explained to him he called me over and asked me what jatha I belonged to. I told him none. Then he asked me where I got this information from. I told him my sources. Basically his problem was that I was not crediting any jatha on my pamphlet. He asked me to mention Taksal in them but I refused. Few days later all the pamphlets were thrown in the trash and I was told to abstain from publishing such (and here's how they described them) lies. The youth wanted more, but the Gurughar committee would have none of it. The main problem, here, is the liberal fuddu attitude our qaum has that respect all faiths at the expense of your own.  After this some of us decided to stick to the social media. There was veer Bijla Singh Ji with his Search Sikhism page which, back in the heyday of grooming, forced several Muslim preachers to quit their anti-Sikh proselytizing. There were a few more who set up Tisarpanth. Then there was The Truth of Sikhi and Shamshir Publications. Bijla Singh Ji advised us but out of the three initiatives set up, only one is going strong and the others were forced to close down. Why? Because they had to hit the streets and they faced the same problem which I did- our own elders were and still are shooting us down. If we had claimed affiliation with some jatha, then we would have been lionized.   
    • In that way you're right. It is a big deal. My heart would pain to see anyone lost to Islam especially on a large scale. And your cautionary message is well founded.  But in the fake news, shame Sikhi, propaganda way I feel it was being used. Pfft. In that context I feel more a response of "And? Big deal. Who gives a ****"
    • That's her father in law Tarsem Singh of Hushiarpur, he is the village Granthi.   Her father's name is Monohar Lal of Delhi and her name is Kiran Bala. Sikhs don't have names like Lal and Bala. These are typical Hindu names.
    • I'm surprised to learn there are differences in Bani. If Ram rai can be excommunicated for changing the meaning of a verse (to please the emporer), then it should be impossible for a Sikh to change the words or spellings of Bani. Apart from layout differences (which would occur due to variations in handwriting style and page size), the Bani should be identical in all versions. To allow variations can lead to questioning the authenticity and hence validity of Bani.    Yes it can lead to attacks from without by muslims and others looking to destroy Sikhs faith in Bani, but it can also lead to disruption from within. 
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