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London attack: Four dead in Westminster terror incident

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30 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

We acknowledge our issues, people like you, I, and others on this site. We don't live in denial and say we wuz kangz, even though Sikhs did have a kingdom once upon a time, lmao.

I know a few Kangs. Jas Kang and Aman Kang and they is still kangz,  lol

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5 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I know a few Kangs. Jas Kang and Aman Kang and they is still kangz,  lol

Legends in their own lunchtime, lol.

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30 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Mike Tyson was also converted in prison.

I think prison lends itself to potential spiritual growth (dukh daru) but also, naturally, tribal instincts (especially given the violence that is the norm there). So it's no shock that kalay convert in prison. The black Muslims in prison (in the US) are probably less animalistic than the nonMuslim blacks, and joining a religion would mean they will have discussions and prayers together which can help to endure the conditions and even help some grow spiritually/intellectually? Whatever else we might say about Islam (I'm no fan), they do frequently have a much better sense of brotherhood between them than some other religions (i.e. us lol). They also try and cook their own halal food when possible, and given how people sometimes behave in prison kitchens (spitting in food etc.) that's another benefit they get.

Let's not forget the matter of self-protection too in those environments. 

So there are lots of sound reasons why someone might convert there. They aren't all being mugs. 

Edited by dallysingh101

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Its mostly those black and white converts to salafi islam that become these nutjob muslim terrorists

You dont get those who are from shia and sufi sects if you do the analysis.

Also isnt it strange that islam seems to attract these kinda violent criminal losers in life whereas Sikhi attracts whites and blacks who want to better themselves. I havent seen one bad black convert to sikhi yet all have been good people from what I have seen about them. Yet black converts to Islam (particularly salafi sect) have mostly been thugs who want to harm and kill innocent people in one way or another.

I was talking to a white guy convert to islam few days ago asked him why he chose islam he said cos he wanted to find a woman who was traditional and strict and not like the easy whoesih feminist white women had become. He wanted to find a nice traditional desi muslim girl thinking he would have no problem as he is a muslim now but he found out even western desi girls have lost the quality of what muslim guys want and thought desi girls were like. So now he is stuck and is frustrated with how his life has turned out and what has become of muslim girls who are brainwashed with feminism and other non-family values nonsense.

Edited by genie
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8 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think prison lends itself to potential spiritual growth (dukh daru) but also, naturally, tribal instincts (especially given the violence that is the norm there). So it's no shock that kalay convert in prison. The black Muslims in prison (in the US) are probably less animalistic than the nonMuslim blacks, and joining a religion would mean they will have discussions and prayers together which can help to endure the conditions and even help some grow spiritually/intellectually? Whatever else we might say about Islam (I'm no fan), they do frequently have a much better sense of brotherhood between them than some other religions (i.e. us lol). They also try and cook their own halal food when possible, and given how people sometimes behave in prison kitchens (spitting in food etc.) that's another benefit they get.

Let's not forget the matter of self-protection too in those environments. 

So there are lots of sound reasons why someone might convert there. They aren't all being mugs. 

How many of them are "religious" and "spiritual" in prison like they are "gay for the stay"

And the ones that go to Syria to fight for ISIS are hardly less animalistic.

There are a lot of perks to be muslim in prison, it's like being bribed. I very much doubt they cook their own food, they probably get their food from outside. What it means is that prison services are discriminating against non muslim prisoners.

This muslim conversion is like a gang and yes it is like a brotherhood but muslim brotherhood is built on a "us" versus "them" mentality. Which makes sense because they are in a constant state of war "Dar Ul Harb vs Darl Ul Salam ".

It is not like a Sikh brotherhood. True brotherhood is not built on antagonism.

However, if you feel this great respect for this being that you are an east end cockney bad boy tearaway ensure you are not becoming a dhimmi.

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8 hours ago, genie said:

Its mostly those black and white converts to salafi islam that become these nutjob muslim terrorists

You dont get those who are from shia and sufi sects if you do the analysis.

Also isnt it strange that islam seems to attract these kinda violent criminal losers in life whereas Sikhi attracts whites and blacks who want to better themselves. I havent seen one bad black convert to sikhi yet all have been good people from what I have seen about them. Yet black converts to Islam (particularly salafi sect) have mostly been thugs who want to harm and kill innocent people in one way or another.

I was talking to a white guy convert to islam few days ago asked him why he chose islam he said cos he wanted to find a woman who was traditional and strict and not like the easy whoesih feminist white women had become. He wanted to find a nice traditional desi muslim girl thinking he would have no problem as he is a muslim now but he found out even western desi girls have lost the quality of what muslim guys want and thought desi girls were like. So now he is stuck and is frustrated with how his life has turned out and what has become of muslim girls who are brainwashed with feminism and other non-family values nonsense.

In the increasingly feminised world, Islam is seen by some as the last bastion of masculinity.

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3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

How many of them are "religious" and "spiritual" in prison like they are "gay for the stay"

And the ones that go to Syria to fight for ISIS are hardly less animalistic.

There are a lot of perks to be muslim in prison, it's like being bribed. I very much doubt they cook their own food, they probably get their food from outside. What it means is that prison services are discriminating against non muslim prisoners.

This muslim conversion is like a gang and yes it is like a brotherhood but muslim brotherhood is built on a "us" versus "them" mentality. Which makes sense because they are in a constant state of war "Dar Ul Harb vs Darl Ul Salam ".

It is not like a Sikh brotherhood. True brotherhood is not built on antagonism.

 

I can only talk about what I've witnessed and experienced. And I do give that weight, because most apnay w**kers are too scared to even go out there and mix it up with anyone remotely threatening to them, yet think they know what is going on from their closeted positions. I know fighters when I see them, and I can recognise pu55ies too. 

And what would apnay know about brotherhood in this day and age anyway? Only a warped <banned word filter activated> would think we've got things right in that department right now. How much of Amritdhari 'brotherhood' is actually the result of strong parental pressure to conform these days? And are you seriously telling me we don't have this 'them and us' mentality rampant amongst our lot in various ways too - be it in peasant mentalities that make them feel different to all other Sikhs, or inter-jatha mentalities, or amritdhari versus mona mentality. Are you living in some dream world mate? Right now, we are a fractured disunited people. That's not an excuse to become despondent though because there is everything to play for.

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However, if you feel this great respect for this being that you are an east end cockney bad boy tearaway ensure you are not becoming a dhimmi.

 

What is a dhimmi? If you're suggesting that I might convert to Islam, there is no chance of that. I'm happy where I am. However, that doesn't mean I sulk about like some snidey pendu, full of cry baby emotions just because I can see some other communities are doing some things better than us. 

That's just a signal for us to bring up our game and not act like village-idiots as too many of us do. 

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Another point about converts to Islam in prison:

One great thing about religion is that it can bring much needed structure into your life. Especially with daily practices (like nitnem). I think another reason why so many people from certain types of backgrounds convert to Islam in prison is because it gives them a readily accessible (and in comparison to some other faiths, a relatively easier) structure to follow. 

Prayers seem very short in Islam. There is that whole sort of physical coordination thing they have when they pray etc. And they've had centuries of experience of converting  and dialoguing with nonMuslims (by both fair and foul means!). So someone can quickly get an identity and sense of belonging there. Our lot are different in that respect (and I'm not saying if this is bad or good), we are infinitely more fractious than a lot of other groups. 

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20 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I can only talk about what I've witnessed and experienced. And I do give that weight, because most apnay w**kers are too scared to even go out there and mix it up with anyone remotely threatening to them, yet think they know what is going on from their closeted positions. I know fighters when I see them, and I can recognise pu55ies too. 

And what would apnay know about brotherhood in this day and age anyway? Only a warped <banned word filter activated> would think we've got things right in that department right now. How much of Amritdhari 'brotherhood' is actually the result of strong parental pressure to conform these days? And are you seriously telling me we don't have this 'them and us' mentality rampant amongst our lot in various ways too - be it in peasant mentalities that make them feel different to all other Sikhs, or inter-jatha mentalities, or amritdhari versus mona mentality. Are you living in some dream world mate? Right now, we are a fractured disunited people. That's not an excuse to become despondent though because there is everything to play for.

What is a dhimmi? If you're suggesting that I might convert to Islam, there is no chance of that. I'm happy where I am. However, that doesn't mean I sulk about like some snidey pendu, full of cry baby emotions just because I can see some other communities are doing some things better than us. 

That's just a signal for us to bring up our game and not act like village-idiots as too many of us do. 

The muslims are brave because they fight in numbers.

They are more fractious than us which is why they focus on the siege mentality to keep themselves united.

Our so called fractures are mere petty squabbles compared to the Islamic fractures.

Our concept of unity is not the same as theirs.

Theoretically, if there were Sikhs in prison who became Amritdhari, you would not have these gangs developing with this "If you want our halal food, convert!".

Our brothers would probably prepare langar for the whole prison and would do far more to unite prisoners. It won't be perfect but it reduce a lot of these tensions.

Our way ultimately is the better way.

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29 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The muslims are brave because they fight in numbers.

They are more fractious than us which is why they focus on the siege mentality to keep themselves united.

Our so called fractures are mere petty squabbles compared to the Islamic fractures.

Our concept of unity is not the same as theirs.

Theoretically, if there were Sikhs in prison who became Amritdhari, you would not have these gangs developing with this "If you want our halal food, convert!".

Our brothers would probably prepare langar for the whole prison and would do far more to unite prisoners. It won't be perfect but it reduce a lot of these tensions.

Our way ultimately is the better way.

If I didn't believe that I would have converted to something else a long time ago. 

That all being said, you don't have a straight clue about human nature, especially in tough situations. 

When the 5h1te hits the fan, all these nice guy notions fly out of the window.

If brothers were to act all 'kumbh baa yaa' in prison like you are suggesting, and they couldn't tear off heads to defend themselves (and I mean literally here!), they'd actually make themselves into targets for their perceived soft/weakness by all the other predators there (and not just muslim ones!) You need to get in your head, society gets made up of all sorts, including people on the psychopathic or sociopathic scale. A lot of these types go on to become leaders in various organisations due to their characteristics. That's why you have all these leaders who can act all nice yet give orders which they know will lead to lots of innocent deaths or sack people with no remorse. In any case statistically there are a disproportionate amount of such people in prison (in comparison to the general public), so all these notions you have of how people will react to altruism are completely off. Such things will get interpreted as effeminate weak behaviour by many and a reason to attack. 

I like the way you play down our fractures like a regular peasant by the way. Yes, ours might be petty compared to theirs, but our small numbers means our fractures impact upon us on a more profound level than theirs (in my opinion). A small fractured group, is infinitely weaker than a massive fractured group, which is more like a giant monster with multiple heads. 

Anyways....

 

It don't hurt to have worldly knowledge here. There was a time when I'd see bunches of black salafist/wahhabi converts giving it large on Vasaikhi in Southall. For the time being they seem distracted by goray and their politics (which is a nice break). But whenever that ends, we should be ready to become the focus of attention again. 

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3 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

If I didn't believe that I would have converted to something else a long time ago. 

That all being said, you don't have a straight clue about human nature, especially in tough situations. 

When the 5h1te hits the fan, all these nice guy notions fly out of the window.

If brothers were to act all 'kumbh baa yaa' in prison like you are suggesting, and they couldn't tear off heads to defend themselves (and I mean literally here!), they'd actually make themselves into targets for their perceived soft/weakness by all the other predators there (and not just muslim ones!) You need to get in your head, society gets made up of all sorts, including people on the psychopathic or sociopathic scale. A lot of these types go on to become leaders in various organisations due to their characteristics. That's why you have all these leaders who can act all nice yet give orders which they know will lead to lots of innocent deaths or sack people with no remorse. In any case statistically there are a disproportionate amount of such people in prison (in comparison to the general public), so all these notions you have of how people will react to altruism are completely off. Such things will get interpreted as effeminate weak behaviour by many and a reason to attack. 

I like the way you play down our fractures like a regular peasant by the way. Yes, ours might be petty compared to theirs, but our small numbers means our fractures impact upon us on a more profound level than theirs (in my opinion). A small fractured group, is infinitely weaker than a massive fractured group, which is more like a giant monster with multiple heads. 

Anyways....

 

It don't hurt to have worldly knowledge here. There was a time when I'd see bunches of black salafist/wahhabi converts giving it large on Vasaikhi in Southall. For the time being they seem distracted by goray and their politics (which is a nice break). But whenever that ends, we should be ready to become the focus of attention again. 

Of course, as long as we have tough guys like yourself, we have nothing to worry about.

You do harp on this 5hite hitting the fan a lot, just wondering if it happens whether you are going be there at the front or if you are just talk.

You sound like someone who is itching for a fight. I can guarantee if push comes to shove those "soft" Sikhs will show more balls than talkers like yourself.

For all the faults of our people, and boy do we love to whine, we do a lot of things right and we do it better than a lot of people.

I prefer to look at the glass half full rather than the glass half empty.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

In the increasingly feminised world, Islam is seen by some as the last bastion of masculinity.

Yes I think its a sort of rebellion against feminised pro-homosexual western world, they want to retain that masculinity so they opt to convert for Islam which is seen as the ultimate male dominance faith and clamps down on womens rights servery.

Christianity has failed them because strong christians get rolled over by feminists (women bishops issue) and gays during legal cases (christian hotels, gay cakes,etc). Atheism isnt an option as its an anarchy free for all Marxist ideology where violence and crimes against anyone is justified because theres no higher power to answer to and already they are living the life of an atheist usually so they want a change.

They dont look into eastern faiths because they feel its too complicated to understand usually these violent offenders have very low IQ and do not have the ability to understand dharmic faiths or they think other religions are too small a religion to convert to. So Islam is the attractive choice because its closer to abrahmic Christianity, they have a large support group of converts and born muslims and it gives a military type structure and discipline that these violent criminal minded loosers of society want and crave for. Plus it gives them justification to vent their anger and rage at the system and governments of their home countries for attacking muslim countries and civilians aboard.

So all in all they all the violent nutjobs are attracted to salafi Islam and this threat wont go away as its been with islam since it was founded. The only solution to the madness is to clamp down on the islamic ideology altogether to prevent them converting people and making it so easy to have large demographics in non-muslim societies.

 

Edited by genie
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27 minutes ago, genie said:

Yes I think its a sort of rebellion against feminised pro-homosexual western world, they want to retain that masculinity so they opt to convert for Islam which is seen as the ultimate male dominance faith and clamps down on womens rights servery.

Christianity has failed them because strong christians get rolled over by feminists (women bishops issue) and gays during legal cases (christian hotels, gay cakes,etc). Atheism isnt an option as its an anarchy free for all Marxist ideology where violence and crimes against anyone is justified because theres no higher power to answer to and already they are living the life of an atheist usually so they want a change.

They dont look into eastern faiths because they feel its too complicated to understand usually these violent offenders have very low IQ and do not have the ability to understand dharmic faiths or they think other religions are too small a religion to convert to. So Islam is the attractive choice because its closer to abrahmic Christianity, they have a large support group of converts and born muslims and it gives a military type structure and discipline that these violent criminal minded loosers of society want and crave for. Plus it gives them justification to vent their anger and rage at the system and governments of their home countries for attacking muslim countries and civilians aboard.

So all in all they all the violent nutjobs are attracted to salafi Islam and this threat wont go away as its been with islam since it was founded. The only solution to the madness is to clamp down on the islamic ideology altogether to prevent them converting people and making it so easy to have large demographics in non-muslim societies.

 

Furthermore, feminists keep very quiet on misogyny from Islamics.

They get a free pass.

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17 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Furthermore, feminists keep very quiet on misogyny from Islamics.

They get a free pass.

yup especially western leftist white middle and upper class feminists they wont say a word against their Stockholm syndrome masters the islamist's probably because they get shouted down by the oxy-moronic group called "muslim feminists" for being racist if they say anything against muslim criminal's or corrupt islamic theology.

These video's below some it up nicely

 

 

Edited by genie

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  • Topics

  • Posts

    • As per usual,  our openness and tolerance is seen as weakness for others, and they take full advantage. 
    • This is nothing new. I tried setting up an initiative to defeat this trend; happened a good few years back on this forum, but some of us decided to establish a body of sorts which would publish and distribute literature regarding the falsity spread by other faiths vis-a-vis Sikhi. Because we were based in different countries we used to stay in contact via email to exchange ideas and finalize publications in our own respective countries. I wrote and dispatched a particular article on the falsity that Bhagat Fareed was a hardcore Muslim and by incorporating his Bani into the Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Sikh Gurus proved their respect for Islam and hence all Sikhs should become Muslims. Here are some examples of what I wrote: "For Bhagat Farid, and Sufis in general, life is but nihilistic. Such a perception, logically, leads to renunciation and asceticism. Farid asserts:

      'Farid, had my throat been slit on the same day as my umbilical cord, I would not have been prey to trouble nor weathered such hardship. Farid, I alone thought I was in pain, but the whole world is in pain. I ascended my roof and witnessed each and every house in flame.' 
      -Saloks 76 and 81, ASGGS, Ang. 1381-82.

      When Guru Nanak Dev Ji had entered Multan, the local Sufis had tried to eject him on the pretext of his criticism of the Sufi order. The Guru had rejected their renunciation and described their acts of obeisance as charades. With this particular incident in mind, Guru Arjan Dev Ji elected to reply to Farid with the following:

      'The world is akin to a garden, Farid, in which poisonous plants take root. They for whom the Master cares suffer not at all.' 

      And:

      'How sweet be this life oh Farid! With health the body blooms, but they who love their dear beloved Lord are rarely found.' 
      -Mohalla 5, Saloks 82-83, ASGGS, Ang. 1382.

      The writings of Farid were incorporated into the Sikh canon to refute the notion that life, in general, is painful. For the Gurus life is what one makes out of it. Ignorance, naturally, leads to pain whilst knowledge leads to joy. By positing their views below Farids', the Sikh Gurus refuted the Sufi notion of life being suffering in toto.'   "The Sufi path of asceticism is best summed up in the following conversation between Sayid Muhammad Gesu Daraz and a suppliant. Daraz was the acolyte of Shaikh Farid Nasir-u'd-Din-Chiarg-i-Delhi, the disciple of Nizam-u'd-din Auliya who was the successor to Baba Farid. This conversation is recorded in the 'Jawama-u'l-Kilam' and focuses on the physical suffering weathered by Baba Farid in his search for the Divine. Pledging his mind to the Lord's path, the latter Farid hung upside down in a well for forty days and nights. 

      'Then one day when Sayid Muhammad Gesu Daraz was recounting the pledge of (Baba Farid), a man queried: "how is it that blood does not run out of the eyes and mouth of the person who undertakes it and how is it that foodstuff and other bodily elements do not come out of him?" The Saint explained that in a body as emaciated as that of Farid, the question of food and blood no longer lingers as austerities have reduced such a body to mere skeleton.' 

      Bhagat Farid writes:

      'Farid, if one were to hack my body, not a drop of blood would ooze from it. Those who are imbued with the Lord's love have no blood left in their beings.' 
      -Salok 51, ASGGS, Ang. 1380.

      Guru Amardass Ji comments on this Shabad in the following way:

      'The body is all blood, without blood it cannot exist. Those who are imbued with the Lord's love have not a single drop of selfish blood in their bodies. When the fear of Divine enters one's being, it becomes emaciated, and the blood of greed departs. As flames purify metal, so too does the fear of the Divine cast out impure inclinations. They alone are beautiful, Nanak, who are dyed with the love of the Lord.'
      -Mohalla 3, ASGGS, Salok 52, Ang. 1380. 

      Farid's ascetic undertones are sidelined, by the Guru, to provide a more rational interpretation of his words. Farid's "blood" becomes "selfish blood" and the external is transformed into the internal. It is not the physical frame which matters but the internal, the spiritual. Only through spiritual austerities can inimical inclinations depart; physical austerities only invite weakness and prolonged suffering."   "Now, we will look at the Bani of Bhagat Farid along with the relevant commentary by the Sikh Gurus. 

      'Farid, she who did not enjoy her spouse when black-haired, will she enjoy him when grey-haired? Love the Lord with such love that your hair's color will never change!'
      -Salok 12, ASGGS, Ang. 1378.

      Bhagat Farid holds that youth is conducive to following the spiritual path, in old age it is a lost cause. Guru Amardass Ji, who became the third Nanak at the age of 72, provides a commentary on this shabad:

      'Farid, whether one's hair be black or grey, the Lord is ever present if one remembers him. True love does not come from one's own desire, that cup of the Master's love he himself gives to whomever he desires.'
      -Mohalla 3, Salok 13, ASGGS, Ang. 1378.

      Bhagat Farid believes effort to be necessary vis-a-vis the spiritual path; the Sikh Gurus concur but to an extent. All transpires due to the Divine Will and man's efforts have a limit. Divine Will is more pontificate than man's efforts; man should elect to reside in this will and recognize where effort ends. From a Nanakian perspective effort is necessary in the temporal paradigm, but in the spiritual paradigm success depends on the Divine initiative. Guru Nanak Dev Ji states:

      'Does it matter if one is a swan or heron on whom the Lord casts his glance? Sayeth Nanak that if he so desires, crowns turn into swans.'
      -Mohalla 1, Salok 124, ASGGS, Ang. 1384. 

      The Lord is supreme in all that he does.

      Bhagat Farid then utilizes martial scenery:

      'One who is not welcome by her in-laws, and who has not place at her parents' house; and whose spouse does not care an iota for her, is she truly a happily married wife?'
      -Salok 31, ASGGS, Ang. 1379. 

      The 'parents' house' symbolizes societal life, the 'in-laws' spiritual life and the 'spouse' the Lord. Bhagat Farid is commenting on those spiritualists, those devotees, who desire the best of both spiritualism and societal living. He feels that by pursuing both concepts, one ultimately fails in all that he/she commits to. Guru Nanak Dev Ji comments:

      'At her in-laws and at her parents' house, she belongs to her spouse, the Divine beloved who is inaccessible and unfathomable. Oh Nanak! That one is indeed a happily married bride, who pleases the indifferent one.'
      -Mohalla 1, Salok 32, ASGGS, Ang. 1379.

      In contrast to Farid, the Guru elaborates that via Divine Grace both the temporal and spiritual paradigms become successful for the devotees. The true spiritualist is one who pursues both fields rather than renouncing one over the other. Nonetheless, hypocrisy in both fields should be avoided."   "In Suhi Lalit, Bhagat Farid forewarns:

      'You could not construct a raft when required. Now that the ocean is full and overflowing, it is hard to traverse. Do not touch the saffron flower for it's color will depart, my beloved. Rahau.
      The bride is weak and her husband's command is too hard to bear. As the milk does not return to her breast, nor will the soul return to the body. Sayeth Farid, friends, when the spouse calls this soul departeth crestfallen and the body is reduced to ashes.'
      -Suhi Lalit 1, ASGGS, Ang. 794.

      Guru Nanak Dev Ji, prior to Farid's verse, expounds:

      'Make meditation and restraint the raft via which to traverse the flowing stream. Your pass will be comfortable as if there is no ocean or overflowing stream. Your name alone is the unfading matter with which this cloak is dyed; my Beloved Lord, this color is perennial. My dear companions have departed, how will they meet the Lord? If they are united in virtue, the Lord will unite them with himself. Once united the mortal does not separate if the union be true. The cycle of birth and death is nullified by the True, Eternal Lord. She who removes her own self-centrism sews herself a garment to please her spouse. By the Guru's words, she obtained the fruit of the nectar of the Lord's word. Sayeth Nanak, my companions, my spouse be dear to me. We be the Lord's handmaidens; he our husband.'
      -Mohalla 1, Suhi 4, Ang. 729.

      Bhagat Farid provides a picture of doom and gloom by lamenting lost opportunities. He focuses on old age, where mental and physical faculties are too frail to be attuned to Divine contemplation. Guru Nanak Dev Ji, instead, expounds that it is never too late to focus on the Lord (one should remember Guru Amardass Ji here) for the Beloved is not harsh nor his commands. Via the saffron flower, Bhagat Farid warns of the fleeting pleasures of the world -here today, gone tomorrow- Guru Nanak Dev Ji instead elaborates that all pleasures belong to the Lord and via merging with him, all pleasures become permanent for he is the highest pleasure of all. 

      For Farid, death is the final test; even the faithful, in his view, should fear it for the soul never returns to the body. Guru Nanak Dev Ji however believes death to be a joy and a privilege of the valorous, for it is via death that one perfects his/her union with the Divine.

      From a Nanakian perspective, Farids's words apply to the manmukh and not the Gurmukh. But even a manmukh is worthy of Divine Grace, provided he recants at the ultimate moment."   "Bhagat Farid, a Sufi, informs us:

      'My physical frame is oven-hot; my bones are the firewood. If my feet fail, I shall walk upon my head to meet my Beloved.'
      -Salok 119, ASGGS, Ang. 1384.

      Bhagat Farid utilizes the metaphor of a kiln to depict his love for the Lord. A Sufi, his ascetic concepts however were not in line with Gurmat. Guru Nanak Dev Ji refutes his call for such asceticism by commenting:

      'Do not heat your physical frame oven-hot; burn not your bones like firewood. What harm have they committed that you torture them such? Rather behold the Beloved within your soul, Farid.'
      -Salok 120, ASGGS, Ang. 1384.

      Bhagat Farid is of the mind that the human body is but a prison and the soul it's captive. The Sikh Gurus believe that the human body is a temple, a locus where the Lord resides and awaits his devotee. By utilizing this Shabad of Farid, the Gurus desired that their Sikhs imbue the same zeal as the Sufi did whilst also discarding his asceticism; hence the refutation. Throughout Bhagat Bani we find a similar concept at play. The Sikh Gurus initiate a written dialogue with the radicals of their time and provide an unalloyed picture of the Divine Truth. For Farid, creation is a falsity; for the Gurus it is a truth. Farid's asceticism renders the body as simply an object; the Gurus however perceive it to be divine and encourage their Sikhs to employ it in the service of the Divine by societal living." I printed all this out in pamphlet form and took it to a local Nagar Kirtan when I was in Australia and man, some of the Muslims burned. A few confrontations occurred, "how can you say Guru Nanak was a non-Muslim?!" "Gobind Singh made you anti-Muslim." "Your history is a lie, all Gurus were Muslims and they even married Muslims!" Basically they were clutching at straws. The pamphlets were enough to make the Sikhs ignore these idiots and they grew worried and left the scene. Later a famous attendant Gyani, from Taksal (and who I will not name), got hold of one of the pamphlets. After having it explained to him he called me over and asked me what jatha I belonged to. I told him none. Then he asked me where I got this information from. I told him my sources. Basically his problem was that I was not crediting any jatha on my pamphlet. He asked me to mention Taksal in them but I refused. Few days later all the pamphlets were thrown in the trash and I was told to abstain from publishing such (and here's how they described them) lies. The youth wanted more, but the Gurughar committee would have none of it. The main problem, here, is the liberal fuddu attitude our qaum has that respect all faiths at the expense of your own.  After this some of us decided to stick to the social media. There was veer Bijla Singh Ji with his Search Sikhism page which, back in the heyday of grooming, forced several Muslim preachers to quit their anti-Sikh proselytizing. There were a few more who set up Tisarpanth. Then there was The Truth of Sikhi and Shamshir Publications. Bijla Singh Ji advised us but out of the three initiatives set up, only one is going strong and the others were forced to close down. Why? Because they had to hit the streets and they faced the same problem which I did- our own elders were and still are shooting us down. If we had claimed affiliation with some jatha, then we would have been lionized.   
    • In that way you're right. It is a big deal. My heart would pain to see anyone lost to Islam especially on a large scale. And your cautionary message is well founded.  But in the fake news, shame Sikhi, propaganda way I feel it was being used. Pfft. In that context I feel more a response of "And? Big deal. Who gives a ****"
    • That's her father in law Tarsem Singh of Hushiarpur, he is the village Granthi.   Her father's name is Monohar Lal of Delhi and her name is Kiran Bala. Sikhs don't have names like Lal and Bala. These are typical Hindu names.
    • I'm surprised to learn there are differences in Bani. If Ram rai can be excommunicated for changing the meaning of a verse (to please the emporer), then it should be impossible for a Sikh to change the words or spellings of Bani. Apart from layout differences (which would occur due to variations in handwriting style and page size), the Bani should be identical in all versions. To allow variations can lead to questioning the authenticity and hence validity of Bani.    Yes it can lead to attacks from without by muslims and others looking to destroy Sikhs faith in Bani, but it can also lead to disruption from within. 
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