Premi5

London attack: Four dead in Westminster terror incident

86 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, genie said:

 

 

Come on guys both of you make valid contributions on various topics but can you stop dragging the thread into a personal attacks against each other. Lets keep it civil and control the kahrod. And just agree to disagree...

I am OK with Dally. 

Brothers disagree on things from time to time.

This dumb farmer has some gardening to do 😉

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3 minutes ago, Preeet said:

Can you guys share opinions without insulting each other?? 

Dally's background is Bhatra, they are not like mainstream Sikhs.

They are quite insular and tribal in their thinking  and I think he finds certain traits unusual in most of us other Sikhs, particularly with Jatts.

Which I think is one of the reasons he finds a lot of the traits in Muslims quite appealing because they are very similar to Sikhs of his background. 

He is also an inner-city Sikh, very much "ghetto" from my interactions with him.

I think he finds it very difficult to digest the fact that most Sikhs have moved on from the "ghetto", he still lives in it.

 

 

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Anyone else noticed the unconscious cultural and social effect of the masculine and dominant image of Islam having an impact on the cultural milieu in the West, the most noticeable sign being the adoption of facial hair - beards - by whites across various social and class divisions?

I'm no psychologist, but i think it's hilarious to notice how whites have been subconsciously influenced by various media of apparently hyper-masculine Islamists over the past 15 or so years, doing all sorts of things that westerners are conditioned to eschew as brutal and backwards, yet over this period of time beards have become this fashionable accessory amongst males in the west, almost as if a beard by itself is enough to paper over the lack of inner masculinity that's being wrung out of western males by an increasingly feminised culture and society. They're adopting the appearance of the very people they ostensibly would never identify with, and they can't even see they're doing it, lmao. That's the power that culture has over a person. Fascinating. 

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8 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Anyone else noticed the unconscious cultural and social effect of the masculine and dominant image of Islam having an impact on the cultural milieu in the West, the most noticeable sign being the adoption of facial hair - beards - by whites across various social and class divisions?

I'm no psychologist, but i think it's hilarious to notice how whites have been subconsciously influenced by various media of apparently hyper-masculine Islamists over the past 15 or so years, doing all sorts of things that westerners are conditioned to eschew as brutal and backwards, yet over this period of time beards have become this fashionable accessory amongst males in the west, almost as if a beard by itself is enough to paper over the lack of inner masculinity that's being wrung out of western males by an increasingly feminised culture and society. They're adopting the appearance of the very people they ostensibly would never identify with, and they can't even see they're doing it, lmao. That's the power that culture has over a person. Fascinating. 

bro hipsters aren't doing cos of effect of Muslaman but steampunk trend which looks at the feel of Victorian/Edwardian era and mixes it up with a modern twist ...ALL goray sported some facial hair and very managed like the lamb chops, handle bar moustaches, goatees and beards .back then as they didn't want to be feminine ...then the 1900s and by the twenties everything was androgynous

 

Edited by jkvlondon

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23 minutes ago, genie said:

 

 

Come on guys both of you make valid contributions on various topics but can you stop dragging the thread into a personal attacks against each other. Lets keep it civil and control the kahrod. And just agree to disagree...

I feel like many apnay get insecure and scared when another apna points out just how unprepared we are as a society for any craziness that might happen out there - that is the root of Ranjeet's issues. I'm not in this boat myself because I was fortunate enough to meet some far-sighted and intelligent brothers in the past, and I don't physically laze about either. 

We need a community wide discussion about this to avoid a false sense of security. We have lessons from all those Delhi Sikhs in 1984 to remind us of what having our heads in cloud cuckoo land can lead to.  Now I don't think it will boil down to anything more than opportunist attacks on vulnerable Sikhs here in the UK, in a worse case scenario (by either goray or sullay), but Ranjeet crying because I've pointed out how effeminate we've become is ridiculous. Don't shoot the messenger - and I walk the walk.  Also, dispassionately and honestly analysing the strengths and weaknesses of Islamists isn't a stupid idea either. Underestimating them is as foolish as inflating their capabilities. Same with any other potential threats, like racist goray.

I thought this thread was informative, especially as the majority of apnay are closeted and a lot of these types use the internet quite a bit - but obviously ranjeet sees it differently.  

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16 minutes ago, Preeet said:

I can see why you are thinking that about Bhatra(s), in fact Ive been bullied by a Bhatra in school before.. Makes me surprised to why he does not talk about his own caste as much as he does when it comes to Jats. & when it comes to caste anyways, it's silly how some say that they aren't real, but then they continue to generalize and regard people by their caste. But whatever, I judge people individually, and when it comes to people who use profanity, that is not a very good lakshan if you claim to be religious. "41. Kaurha bachan nahee kahinaa - Do not speak in bitterness." 

I bear no resentment towards Dally.

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18 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

bro hipsters aren't doing cos of effect of Muslaman but steampunk trend which looks at the feel of Victorian/Edwardian era and mixes it up with a modern twist ...ALL goray sported some facial hair and very managed like the lamb chops, handle bar moustaches, goatees and beards .back then as they didn't want to be feminine ...then the 1900s and by the twenties everything was androgynous

 

I knew someone would mention hipsters, but this phenomenon is beyond the posing of that particular group. Yeah, some of it is a cyclical, fashion thing, but not all of it. There's white men who can't express any of their inner aggression in any meaningful way, and they see these images and videos of bearded men killing and destroying things, and the timid amongst them are stirred to emulate that particular image, because they know there's no other way they can hope to project an image of masculinity beyond their appearance. Sportsmen, actors, students, they're all doing it. And it's the long, unrestricted Asian type beards, not the uber-styled types in fashion magazines.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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13 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I bear no resentment towards Dally.

I ain't got no problem with you. If we are going to discuss important things, of course things may get heated sometimes. Yeah, brothers do argue - sometimes more than others because closeness does that. 

But as long as important stuff is uncovered in these discussions - it's all good to me. 

For the record, I don't find 'those traits' in Muslims appealing - I'm just acknowledging successful strategies on their part.  We'd be fools not to see them. 

30 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

...then the 1900s and by the twenties everything was androgynous

I bet you this was because closet gays infiltrated the establishment by then and subtly promoted effeminate males. Like the gay run fashion industry has been for the past few decades. 

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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

 

I bet you this was because closet gays infiltrated the establishment by then and subtly promoted effeminate males. Like the gay run fashion industry has been for the past few decades. 

You'd be surprised. Most mainstream Homosexuals actually hate that stereotype of them. They think this weird branch of "gay pride" thats sweeping the media is nothing more than a curse for them.

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On 3/24/2017 at 4:00 PM, MisterrSingh said:

Once you start falling down that rabbit hole, you'll struggle to comprehend even the most straightforward events occurring before your eyes. Not everything is a conspiracy. The question you should be asking is "How did this all begin, and why?" not "Is what I'm seeing real?" You're missing the point entirely if that's how you're approaching this situation.

What is the point, please?

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Just now, Premi5 said:

What is the point, please?

Gosh, how long do you have, lol? 

Don't look at the symptoms in isolation (terror attacks) but try to trace how we've entered a situation where these things are occuring, and what political and social reasons are in play that allow such events to happen. 

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Just now, MisterrSingh said:

Gosh, how long do you have, lol? 

Don't look at the symptoms in isolation (terror attacks) but try to trace how we've entered a situation where these things are occuring, and what political and social reasons are in play that allow such events to happen. 

I'm guessing you mean the whole interaction between West and Arab world/Islam in the past 100 years, and how it benefitting West economically but opposite effect on the other side

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Just now, Premi5 said:

I'm guessing you mean the whole interaction between West and Arab world/Islam in the past 100 years, and how it benefitting West economically but opposite effect on the other side

Definitely, in part. 

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4 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Gosh, how long do you have, lol? 

Don't look at the symptoms in isolation (terror attacks) but try to trace how we've entered a situation where these things are occuring, and what political and social reasons are in play that allow such events to happen. 

This thing is so deep, simple pendus like us Panjabis have to concede that we are already over our heads in the matters. 

Reading that Confessions of an economic hitman book made me realise (more than ever) that there are deep international political games being played over power and wealth that are so ruthlessly executed by 'pillars of society' that it would shock many of us. 

A lot of what we are seeing today is a blowback from Bush and Blair's kartootaan. 

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4 hours ago, Premi5 said:

I'm guessing you mean the whole interaction between West and Arab world/Islam in the past 100 years, and how it benefitting West economically but opposite effect on the other side

I don't think it hasn't benefitted the Arabs. I think it's made many wealthy beyond imagination and empowered them politically. 

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I have noticed today that the 'terrorist' is black. Coincidence? South Asian and Arabs are already seen in peoples' minds as linked with terrorism.

is the plan to marginalise all minorities and cause race-related civil unrest between whites and non-whites? 

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1 hour ago, Premi5 said:

I have noticed today that the 'terrorist' is black. Coincidence? South Asian and Arabs are already seen in peoples' minds as linked with terrorism.

is the plan to marginalise all minorities and cause race-related civil unrest between whites and non-whites? 

Whites have been conditioned to become so apathetic that it's quite alarming how much they're willing to tolerate for a peaceful existence. There'll come a tipping point, but we're not quite there.

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16 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Whites have been conditioned to become so apathetic that it's quite alarming how much they're willing to tolerate for a peaceful existence. There'll come a tipping point, but we're not quite there.

What has made them apathetic? And whet would trigger a tipping point? 

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17 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

What has made them apathetic? And whet would trigger a tipping point? 

Their political leaders and their intelligentsia.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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2 hours ago, Premi5 said:

I have noticed today that the 'terrorist' is black. Coincidence? South Asian and Arabs are already seen in peoples' minds as linked with terrorism.

is the plan to marginalise all minorities and cause race-related civil unrest between whites and non-whites? 

Give the man a prize ... same old techniques ...same old globalist agenda

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Observe these chalakhiyan:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/25/westminster-attack-khalid-masoon-acted-alone

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/26/intelligence-services-access-whatsapp-amber-rudd-westminster-attack-encrypted-messaging

So, first we're told he acted alone; a lone wolf without any direct guidance from an overseeing hand, and that's the narrative they're pushing, in terms of mentally unstable social outcasts acting out of a sense of misplaced grievance against society. Nothing to do with Islam, apparently. Then we have the home secretary telling us WhatsApp will need to be accessible to intelligence services. Why? If the perpetrators of these attacks are mentally disturbed social pariahs whose problems are solely internalised, without any third party influencing their decisions and actions, then why do the security services need access to encrypted messages? Are these guys sending WhatsApp messages to themselves in the lead up to these attacks?

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I've been wondering: just how much of the current indigenous 'anger' at immigration in England is down to certain white people feeling angry that their nation is not able to ruthlessly follow a greedy and violent foreign policy without violent retaliation on their own soil by 'immigrants' or their offspring?

 

Also, some people are talking about apathy. Well, I think a certain percentage of the indigenous may secretly feel that their own government is largely responsible for the havoc that is taking place around the globe and so shut up about all this terrorist stuff because of their own perceived culpability in matters. What do you think of that MisterrSingh?

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7 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I've been wondering: just how much of the current indigenous 'anger' at immigration in England is down to certain white people feeling angry that their nation is not able to ruthlessly follow a greedy and violent foreign policy without violent retaliation on their own soil by 'immigrants' or their offspring?

Also, some people are talking about apathy. Well, I think a certain percentage of the indigenous may secretly feel that their own government is largely responsible for the havoc that is taking place around the globe and so shut up about all this terrorist stuff because of their own perceived culpability in matters. What do you think of that MisterrSingh?

Ultimately I see it this way: you (as in western powers) cannot hope to enact expansionist policies for economic gain under the pretence of benevolent motives of freedom, democracy, etc., whilst simultaneously enacting political policies at home that essentially disadvantage those in your home country who are already on the bottom rung of society. THEN if you continue to invite a particular group of people into Western countries as immigrants, who have directly been affected by the aforementioned expansionism in their home countries, and then hope some of these immigrants don't seek some sort of retribution which is tacitly endorsed by their religious beliefs (either directly through violence, or a gradual, indirect process of subversion through democratic means), then I'd say you're either mentally retarded, naive, or a traitor to your own kind. Throw a particularly virulent political and social climate into the mix, and trouble is inevitable. So either stop messing around in other countries, or prevent those from the affected places entering your country, whilst cracking down on those already here from those locations if there's sufficient evidence of wrongdoing. If not, then you deserve everything you get. 

Edit: I'm aware most terrorist attacks in Europe are perpetrated by home grown or converted individuals, so curbing immigration isn't going to prevent them from doing what they do. The perception is that immigration is fuel for these attacks, so either tackle that misconception, or reduce immigration from certain countries.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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21 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Ultimately I see it this way: you (as in western powers) cannot hope to enact expansionist policies for economic gain under the pretence of benevolent motives of freedom, democracy, etc., 

Do you think they should be doing this I the first place in this day and age?

As Sikh citizens of the nations that attempt to do this, how should we feel about? Indifferent, supportive, condemning? Quietly supportive? 

Are there no ethical/moral dimensions to this type of thing that we should be reflecting upon? More so given the outright carnage these escapades have caused abroad (which DO play a big part in the terrorist attacks here in my opinion).

Lately, we've seen two ex-soldiers who've converted to Sikhi (Tegh Singh and Fatehpal Singh Tarney on Sikhchic) talk about the trauma or psychological issues  and emptiness they've felt having been involved in some of these dubious wars. Isn't this more important for us in the UK, as the indigenous here go well out of their way to represent and encourage Sikh loyalties in such endeavours given some sections of our communities history with their previous colonialist agenda?

21 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

So either stop messing around in other countries, or prevent those from the affected places entering your country, whilst cracking down on those already here from those locations if there's sufficient evidence of wrongdoing. If not, then you deserve everything you get. 

When you say this, it almost sounds like you are saying that it is okay to pursue destructive policies abroad as long as you insulate yourself from any potential violent repercussions. 

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42 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

When you say this, it almost sounds like you are saying that it is okay to pursue destructive policies abroad as long as you insulate yourself from any potential violent repercussions. 

There's a certain realpolitik that has to take place in matters of statehood. Is it unsavoury and underhand? No doubt. If the next man has no compunction in playing the game and winning, then it would be incredibly naive and damaging to cling to notions of honour and integrity whilst everyone else is doing the opposite. Leading by example and hoping your opponent does the same is fantasy. Unfortunately, there's no place for noble and holy intentions in these things. I wish it wasn't so. The way human life and all it entails is reduced to something so inconsequential is a huge tragedy.

Only a complete and drastic shift in human consciousness would allow for the things you're advocating. I'm looking at things from a wider perspective with no fear or favour, for or against a particular race or region. Acknowledging the reality of these things doesn't mean i agree with their practice.

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