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Help marriage issue

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Jacfsing2    1,845
8 minutes ago, gurvir101 said:

I wouldn't want to lie to them, it does not set a good tone for the relationship! But that is a funny thought.

There are too many conflicted sikhs in the world, they are almost more punjabi than sikh. Castes is a punjabi thing not a sikh thing and people need to recognise the difference and affiliate themselves with sikhi rather than punjabi traditions.

In my opinion, within the next 2/3 generations i see the caste system dissolving as the youth become more educated and see the hypocrisy of being sikh and believing in castes. I see it a lot with my generation so hopefully it continues.

According to Gurmat you wouldn't be lying: "

<> siqgur pRswid ] (1127-18)
ik-oaNkaar satgur parsaad.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

jwiq kw grbu n krIAhu koeI ] (1127-19)
jaat kaa garab na karee-ahu ko-ee.
No one should be proud of his social class and status.

bRhmu ibMdy so bRwhmxu hoeI ]1] (1127-19)
barahm binday so baraahman ho-ee. ||1||
He alone is a Brahmin, who knows God. ||1||" Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1127

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simran345    2,426
On 01/04/2017 at 1:19 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

You could mess with them and tell them you're the highest caste of Brahmin, (it doesn't really mean anything these days), and after you are married you could admit to being Chamar.

 

1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

According to Gurmat you wouldn't be lying: "

<> siqgur pRswid ] (1127-18)
ik-oaNkaar satgur parsaad.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

jwiq kw grbu n krIAhu koeI ] (1127-19)
jaat kaa garab na karee-ahu ko-ee.
No one should be proud of his social class and status.

bRhmu ibMdy so bRwhmxu hoeI ]1] (1127-19)
barahm binday so baraahman ho-ee. ||1||
He alone is a Brahmin, who knows God. ||1||" Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Ang 1127

@Jacfsing2 paji, this isn't wise to advice Gurvir ji to do by applying Gurbani to his situation by lieng. I understand what you are trying to say, of what Guruji words are, but advising OP to say he's so n so caste and then saying he's something else would worsen the situation. 

Gurvir ji, I would not suggest you lieing to the girl's parents, as then they will resent you for it and will have an excuse to not accept you as you are. Do the right thing and don't keep nothing from them and the rest is in God's hands. 

Good luck with it and hope it works out, and that caste does not be a barrier to your marriage. 

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Jacfsing2    1,845
4 hours ago, simran345 said:

 

@Jacfsing2 paji, this isn't wise to advice Gurvir ji to do by applying Gurbani to his situation by lieng. I understand what you are trying to say, of what Guruji words are, but advising OP to say he's so n so caste and then saying he's something else would worsen the situation. 

Gurvir ji, I would not suggest you lieing to the girl's parents, as then they will resent you for it and will have an excuse to not accept you as you are. Do the right thing and don't keep nothing from them and the rest is in God's hands. 

Good luck with it and hope it works out, and that caste does not be a barrier to your marriage. 

What's a caste mean? If I wanted to marry some low-caste person, and I was higher caste, I wouldn't be making-up some excuses like, "My parents won't accept it" B.S. The problem is that his mate isn't even attempting to stand-up to the parents about this, and is just sitting away. Either they both stick together and stand-up together; or they break-up, (once they are married Gurbani says to view the spouse as like Vaheguru). But yeah, I wouldn't lie to my mate and be saying stuff like, "My parents don't like your caste, so I can't continue with this relationship", if they are Sikh parents they shouldn't be saying stuff like this. (Maybe I would never understand that as since according to some Brahminwaad caste system; they'd consider me one of the high castes and also since I'm a male?)

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simran345    2,426
7 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

What's a caste mean? If I wanted to marry some low-caste person, and I was higher caste, I wouldn't be making-up some excuses like, "My parents won't accept it" B.S. The problem is that his mate isn't even attempting to stand-up to the parents about this, and is just sitting away. Either they both stick together and stand-up together; or they break-up, (once they are married Gurbani says to view the spouse as like Vaheguru). But yeah, I wouldn't lie to my mate and be saying stuff like, "My parents don't like your caste, so I can't continue with this relationship", if they are Sikh parents they shouldn't be saying stuff like this. (Maybe I would never understand that as since according to some Brahminwaad caste system; they'd consider me one of the high castes and also since I'm a male?)

You're right about one thing, you don't understand about lieing to them. What need is there to lie to them? He's done nothing wrong or to be ashamed of his caste, so why lie? That's like running away from the problems he's facing. Ok, the parents are wrong to be discriminating against caste, but he won't know properly until he tells them and what if they're ok with it. Unfortunately there are some parents who do stick by caste, but that doesn't mean to try and act clever and be like them does it? 

Say what you want, but you're still wrong by telling him to lie to his future in laws.  There's no need to, either they accept him as he is or they don't, but lieing to fit in is stupid. 

If he feels he needs to say anything, then I suggest he says, "no caste, as I don't believe in it". 

Edited by simran345
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Jacfsing2    1,845
23 minutes ago, simran345 said:

You're right about one thing, you don't understand about lieing to them. What need is there to lie to them? He's done nothing wrong or to be ashamed of his caste, so why lie? That's like running away from the problems he's facing. Ok, the parents are wrong to be discriminating against caste, but he won't know properly until he tells them and what if they're ok with it. Unfortunately there are some parents who do stick by caste, but that doesn't mean to try and act clever and be like them does it? 

Say what you want, but you're still wrong by telling him to lie to his future in laws.  There's no need to, either they accept him as he is or they don't, but lieing to fit in is stupid. 

If he feels he needs to say anything, then I suggest he says, "no caste, as I don't believe in it". 

I just don't see the girl standing-up to the parents; just the guy doing all the standing-up. But saying the whole, "no caste", would only escalate the situation especially if they want to marry into a particular caste.

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simran345    2,426
1 minute ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I just don't see the girl standing-up to the parents; just the guy doing all the standing-up. But saying the whole, "no caste", would only escalate the situation especially if they want to marry into a particular caste.

Yes you are right there, the girl needs to stand up to her parents when it comes to caste. If he has suitable spouse, son in law qualities and is a decent guy, and she wants to marry him, then she should be telling them about his qualities and he needs to tell her the no caste and how it's irrelevant as she will then tell her parents, because he should not be doing that. But making out he's another caste to them is not wise either, as it a bad start and they will not trust them after. She needs to be firm in what she believes in if she wants to marry him. 

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gurvir101    4

Just an update for you brothers and sisters

She spoke to her parents and tried to convince them but they said it would bring too much shame to the family because of my caste. They said she should try to find someone like me but in caste so it is obvious that they approve of me as marriage material just not my caste. They said to her if she does try to marry me they will disown her and not speak to her ever again. She even told them that infact my grandfather and great grandfather owned a farm in india and did not do leather work traditionally associated with chamars, which is true. She argued with them for 3 hours before bursting into tears and calling me to tell me about it.

I have left her next decision up to her as i can not tell her to choose me and abandon her family, she must choose me herself else she may begin to resent me for telling her to choose me over her parents.

It is a difficult time for me as i must wait to hear her answer as she has asked for a few days to think about it. I am not hopeful as she has been more distant since her discussion with her parents.

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Guest Her parents not Sikh   
Guest Her parents not Sikh

One Dhobi (washerman) from Gujarat

One Jheer (water carrier) from Orissa

One Nai (barber) from Karnataka

One Gujjar (goatherd) from Hastinapur

+ one Labana (salt carrier) from Sialkot.

The Panj Pyare.

Manas ki jaath sabhe ek hi pehchaan bo.

Recognise the human race as one.

Blessings for a meaningful Vaisakhi.

Praying that she marries you Gurvir Singh

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Jacfsing2    1,845
9 hours ago, gurvir101 said:

Just an update for you brothers and sisters

She spoke to her parents and tried to convince them but they said it would bring too much shame to the family because of my caste. They said she should try to find someone like me but in caste so it is obvious that they approve of me as marriage material just not my caste. They said to her if she does try to marry me they will disown her and not speak to her ever again. She even told them that infact my grandfather and great grandfather owned a farm in india and did not do leather work traditionally associated with chamars, which is true. She argued with them for 3 hours before bursting into tears and calling me to tell me about it.

I have left her next decision up to her as i can not tell her to choose me and abandon her family, she must choose me herself else she may begin to resent me for telling her to choose me over her parents.

It is a difficult time for me as i must wait to hear her answer as she has asked for a few days to think about it. I am not hopeful as she has been more distant since her discussion with her parents.

At this poin5 it's either you break-up or if she's truly dedicated marriage with disownmemt. But you have to tell her she only has a limited amount of time. None of this would have happened if you listened to my advice.

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simran345    2,426
15 hours ago, gurvir101 said:

Just an update for you brothers and sisters

She spoke to her parents and tried to convince them but they said it would bring too much shame to the family because of my caste. They said she should try to find someone like me but in caste so it is obvious that they approve of me as marriage material just not my caste. They said to her if she does try to marry me they will disown her and not speak to her ever again. She even told them that infact my grandfather and great grandfather owned a farm in india and did not do leather work traditionally associated with chamars, which is true. She argued with them for 3 hours before bursting into tears and calling me to tell me about it.

I have left her next decision up to her as i can not tell her to choose me and abandon her family, she must choose me herself else she may begin to resent me for telling her to choose me over her parents.

It is a difficult time for me as i must wait to hear her answer as she has asked for a few days to think about it. I am not hopeful as she has been more distant since her discussion with her parents.

Sorry to hear this. Quite surprised by the parents behaviour, especially in the times of now. Thought they would have been a bit more understanding and not given a straight no or they disown her. 

They said she should try to find someone like me but in caste so it is obvious that they approve of me as marriage material just not my caste."  - This is hypocritical of them to say 😏🤔. Like as if it's that easy to find somebody else, yeah right just walk into Morrisons and scan on through the checkout 😐. "Eh leo, discount vi milgea" oh dear. 

Seems like you are doubting her already, chalo at least this will show how serious she is about marrying you.  And the parents, I think they are just using the caste as an excuse to show they are in control, they would need more persuading, as on the first announcement there were bound to be some disagreements. 

Hope it works out in the end. 

 

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muscleman    203
On 24 March 2017 at 0:36 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

I know this sounds impractical, but either you elope with her and get married anyway without her parents approval; or you completely cut this relationship off

It is not only impractical but absolutely absurd Jacfsing2!! Can you imagine the hurt these options will cause to the concerned parties?  Surely, you can try to be little more humane than this? Sometimes I just give up on people like you honestly. They never change!  It doesn't matter how much Sikhee you feed them with but it is all of little or no avail. It simply doesn't work! 

Edited by muscleman

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Jacfsing2    1,845
2 minutes ago, muscleman said:

It is not only impractical but absolutely absurd Jacfsing2!! Can you imagine the hurt these options will cause to the concerned parties?  Surely, you can try to be little more humane than this? Sometimes I just give up on people like you honestly. They never change!  It doesn't matter how much Sikhee you feed them with but it is all of little or no avail. It simply doesn't work! 

Can you stop trolling me and troll someone else.

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muscleman    203
6 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Can you stop trolling me and troll someone else.

By jove, trolling you? Have you gone completely bonkers? All I have said is your choice of options is absolutely absurd! Good heavens!

Edited by muscleman

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Jacfsing2    1,845
Just now, muscleman said:

Trolling you? Have you gone complete bonkers? All I have said is your choice of options are absolutely absurd! Good heavens!

You've been trolling everything I post for a while mate. Look at your post here: 

"...", 

You are clearly here to troll and you have nothing to say to anyone except me.

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muscleman    203

I like reading your posts but that doesn't mean I agree with everything you say!  I agree with most of the stuff you say but not everything! Sorry to disappointment you.

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