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AjeetSinghPunjabi

Why don't sikhs increase their numbers , like muslims do ? Why are we so complacent ?

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I started this thread with the hope that we shall discuss "Why sikhs are decreasing and how we can multiply?" lol, islamic people were just a reference , not the main topic of this thread.

Coming to point, 

1) Ranjeet01 said sikhs have quality, not quantity . I would refer you sir to some of videos of Sukhpreet Singh Udhoke , a great pracharak of our times , and in one of his videos he says how quality and "ucha sucha jeevan" status of sikhs have detoriated considerably ! He says how back then , when a muslim woman approached Hari Singh Nalwa for marriage, the latter cited his Guru's maryada of not marrying second time when spouse is alive . But today we have turbaned singers make punjabi songs like "chakk ke le jaana tainu" (I will drag you from home). Earlier nihangs would say "Khol de buha nih sang , aaye ne nihang" (O daughter, open your door without shyness, its only nihangs).

I remember an article in print media few years back titled "Where went all sikh taxi drivers?" . Back then sikhs here in mumbai were predominantly into taxi or trucking , and still are, but many former of past generation moved on as their kids prospered .

In that article it said "how women felt safe with sikh men and thats why sardaarji always meant trust".

Is it true with our youth today who eye young women with lust and catcall random girls on street (I have seen myself).

Where is our quality ?? Our quality is diminishing and so are our quantity . 

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2) Muslims in india are a mere 14% of population but its enough to send SOS signal among right wing hindu establishment. Thats the power of numbers ! And apparently hindus have quantity much, but no quality ! 1000 yrs of slavery under foreign rule and destruction of temples has definitely broken their back . 

Sikhs reduced from 61% of population in punjab in 2001 to mere 57% in 2011 . And this is population of people who identify as "sikh" which means even the monay sikhs . 

Wasn't that agitation back in the 1960s for Punjabi suba merely a sugercoat way of asking for a sikh majority state . Everyone knew what our real demand was back then ! But we've reached a stage where our immigration to foreign countries is causing a population vacuum in punjab and its naturally filled by hindu migrants from UP, bihar, etc. But they then settle there, and ultimately gain political power.

And then they rear their ugly heads . Like hindus in phagwara last year mimicked sikh ardas in their function. Challenging sikh power by taking out ralleys wearing gaatrey . You get the point ? 

Numbers are crucial .

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Ranjeet01    1,140
11 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I started this thread with the hope that we shall discuss "Why sikhs are decreasing and how we can multiply?" lol, islamic people were just a reference , not the main topic of this thread.

Coming to point, 

1) Ranjeet01 said sikhs have quality, not quantity . I would refer you sir to some of videos of Sukhpreet Singh Udhoke , a great pracharak of our times , and in one of his videos he says how quality and "ucha sucha jeevan" status of sikhs have detoriated considerably ! He says how back then , when a muslim woman approached Hari Singh Nalwa for marriage, the latter cited his Guru's maryada of not marrying second time when spouse is alive . But today we have turbaned singers make punjabi songs like "chakk ke le jaana tainu" (I will drag you from home). Earlier nihangs would say "Khol de buha nih sang , aaye ne nihang" (O daughter, open your door without shyness, its only nihangs).

I remember an article in print media few years back titled "Where went all sikh taxi drivers?" . Back then sikhs here in mumbai were predominantly into taxi or trucking , and still are, but many former of past generation moved on as their kids prospered .

In that article it said "how women felt safe with sikh men and thats why sardaarji always meant trust".

Is it true with our youth today who eye young women with lust and catcall random girls on street (I have seen myself).

Where is our quality ?? Our quality is diminishing and so are our quantity . 

Like I explained to MisterrSingh,  when I am speaking of quality I am talking in terms of standard of living.

The less kids you have, the less mouths you need to feed. Therefore you can increase the quality in standard of living.

What is happening with Sikhs is happening all over the world with other groups of people.

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Esmiralda    1

Mister Singh, you are so correct, sir.  Where has the dignity gone? 

Rather than concerning ourselves with the declining number of Sikhs in the world (if in fact the claim is true) we should perhaps be concerning ourselves with the declining number of adherents to Sikhism. 

How will Sikhs be successful as a people, regardless of numbers and regardless of status, if they loose their cultural dignity?   

 

 

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Jonny101    4,078
1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Like I explained to MisterrSingh,  when I am speaking of quality I am talking in terms of standard of living.

The less kids you have, the less mouths you need to feed. Therefore you can increase the quality in standard of living.

What is happening with Sikhs is happening all over the world with other groups of people.

True quality of a Sikh is with religious values only not with money. Today's Sikhs have lost religious/conservative values and can be best described as secularists. Sant Bhindranwale knew this which is why he tried to revive Sikhi amongst the Sikh masses. And thats why Sikhs fought back during the 80s. Todays sikhs have lost their religion. Our boys are addicted to drugs, our girls are increasingly becoming slutty.  It's a horrible situation we are in.

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MisterrSingh    2,803
28 minutes ago, Esmiralda said:

Mister Singh, you are so correct, sir.  Where has the dignity gone? 

Rather than concerning ourselves with the declining number of Sikhs in the world (if in fact the claim is true) we should perhaps be concerning ourselves with the declining number of adherents to Sikhism. 

How will Sikhs be successful as a people, regardless of numbers and regardless of status, if they loose their cultural dignity?   

Don't get me wrong, I'm no way painting everyone in broad strokes, or suggesting I'm somehow above it all. But in terms of a spiritual Sikh perspective, we are too easily hoodwinked by surface pretensions, whereas if that surface is scratched in the slightest way, it reveals either outright deception in the most extreme cases, or at the less severe end of the scale a noticeable and underwhelming shallowness not too far removed from the supposed godless amongst us. I suppose, strange as it is to mention it, things are much the same for everyone, Sikh or non-Sikh alike.

Edited by MisterrSingh

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genie    1,109
9 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I must say one impressive thing about  muslims is their numbers, atleast here in india ! the way they multiply sends shivers down these right-wingers lol

Why are sikhs so shy ? Why don't we have many kids . Most governments today are democratic which means numbers is power.

No politician cares for sikhs because we don't have numbers 

But at the same time if you look at jews, they have lesser numbers but still power.

Muslims, christians and hindus have quantity, Jews and parsis have quality. What about sikhs?

Several reasons for this:

1) Lack of control of our own Sikh institutions. The SGPC is either been hijacked or has been purposefully created to ensure we never regained religious political power in punjab/northern india.

2) No chief strategist to foresee political events in present and near future / long term future. Most religions have their centers of power with political power even so called "peaceful" buddhists have buddhist majority countries that kill minorities (rohinga muslims in burma and tamil hindus in sri lanka) to safeguard their interests. The only religion that doesnt is the Sikh religion, and its to the shame and humiliation of our kaum we have not even one nation to stand up for our rights in the world.

3) No Central Sikh Military Intelligence which is key to safeguard interests of the Sikh nation

4) Economics meaning its hard to have a large family and sustain them in a unstable world where long term jobs hard to find and alot of competition.

5) Our females are have been and are being brainwashed with non-sikh ideologies like homosexuality, total equality and feminism we even have far left cuck liberal atheist punjabi's from sikh families who tell Sikhs what our religion should teach people. And thus females think its ok to breed with non-sikhs and create non-sikh offspring or think its beneath them to be house-mothers in pursuit of their careers so tend to have just one or two kids max.

6) Lack of Parchar and spreading Sikhi to non-sikhs in particular to muslims in afghanistan and pakistan has made Sikh demographics vulnerable to extinction there.

7) The lack of focus on attacking abrahamic missionaries like christians who plague the punjab for some reason and have a mission to convert Sikhs to christians by underhand devious methods using Sikhi saroop but preaching crazy abrahmic nonsense to the easily misled people there.

8) Since 1930s the rise of Jattwad the new brahmins who took over brahminwad, promoting their jattism castism over Sikh values and principles. In 1940s Dr ambedkar wanted to convert all the dalits under his leadership to Sikhs. This would have gave the Sikhs enough population to demand a huge Sikhistan/khalistan. Because the argument was that because Sikhs only constituted a small percentage population of punjab they couldnt form their own country. Had hindu dalits been allowed to convert it would have forced the demographic shift balance in favor of Sikhs being a majority in many areas but the SGPC jattward castists were against the idea and forced Ambedkar to opt for buddhism and thus we are in the situation we are in now without a country.

If we compare and contrast the days of Sikh raj we can see how Sikhs were confident about going about there business because they had military strength they were afraid to use warfare to get hostile non-sikhs to conform to Sikh to run away to other lands. The hostile powers see Sikhs as weak and non-threatening people and that was the plan all along to convert Sikhs back into pacifists like the times of Guru Nanak Dev Ji but minus the parchar that he gave people and encouraged to give others to.

The list can go on and on....

When situations like 1984 anti-sikh genocide came along those Delhi Sikhs whose family members even served in the Indian military and were the middle class of Delhi got taken out quick unless they had good hindu neighbours to save them and/or access to modern weapons. The ones who got targeted and killed the most were the poor defenseless ones who were left to the mercy of the congress hindu/muslim secular indian govt sponsored terrorist mob. As seen in reports of the time the Sikhs who took out their guns and weapons were able to save themselves and their families.

A lesson for all Sikhs to note..... especially Sikhs in south asia (India/pakistan/afghanista/kashmir).... always make sure you have access to well hidden modern automatic rifle weapons for defence purposes as there's no justice nor safety for religious minorities when things kick off.

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sikhni777    582

Muslims stand a better chance to multiply due to the man getting married to many wives. Some of these are in different countries. A single man can have upto 30 children if he can manage to have 6 wives with 5 children each. They marry young which helps them to have larger families. 

The benefits system in the UK has been totally milked by them so that they can get all the support they need especially the housing needed to raise these children. 

Their loyalty to their religion and their committment to teaching their children how to read their scriptures from an early age ensures that their children too follow in the same path. Their belief of God having told mankind to multiply and fill the earth has its origins in the Bible. 

The demand for extra women if a man is to marry many is met by women from other cultures who are then converted. Once women are converted then their children are automatically required to embrace their culture and religious beliefs owing to the complacency of other religious groups over theirs.

Their ladies are very serious about teaching their children how to read the koran. They hold tuition classes in their houses to teach children and parents also take this education just as seriously as they take other formal education. Due to their large families, the children are able to support the younger ones reducing the educational strain on the parents. Due to their large family structure, they are able to work as well, because they can leave their children for free with sisters etc. 

Sikhs on the other hand are monogamous - greatly reducing the maximum number of children to about 5. The lack of girls who are available for most practising Sikh boys is greatly reduced as the girls give more importance to higher education and ultimately want to lead a comfortable life. Late marriages, homosexuals, high rate of divorce and lack of taking our punjabi  learning seriously all contribute to us following other cultures or none at all.

Parchaar is taking place at the Guradwaras, however because we ourselves do not have a serious committment - we miss it all. The past generation have also not been taking religion seriously which contributes to children who are raised without the knowledge of their religion. They discover or stumble upon the basics a bit too late and struggle to catch up or turn into proper practising Sikhs.   

The rate of fertility problems has generally increased in all communities. People are having to resort to IVF and surrogacy and this limits the number of children they can eventually raise. Alcohol increases the problems faced both in physical health and reproductive health, lets forget practising the religious bit especially when people only visit or socialise with others if drink and meat is on the offer. 

All is not lost however, because there are large numbers who do respond to quality parchaar and quality services offered by some Guradwaras. The internet can serve as a weapon to encourage those weak and ignorant of faith to become stronger and also serve as a base for the sharing of information and arguments. i have seen larger families of proud mothers who regularly attend the Guradwara and the kids wear dastar and are totally committed. So yes in the near future - there is hope that these youngsters will contribute to a new more successful face of the Sikh religion. 

 

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Jacfsing2    1,885
11 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I generally agree with the opinions expressed in this thread, but i think there's only so long we can repeat the "quality over quantity" mantra until someone asks where this quality is hiding itself. Such quality would, eventually, manifest itself in some measurable or discernible form beyond the scope of appearances. Yet in my opinion we're actually regressing in many respects.

I don't want to say anything negative, but there are some people in our lot who should reproduce more; while others reproduce less; (the Gursikhs should have more kids, while the aam Sunday Sikh Liberals should have at best 1 kid; 6 kids vs 1, and our Panth would be restored to a religious majority, instead of every one in our community having some communist amount of kids). Today when we see these confused parents kids; their children usually end-up like Sunny Hundal; while children of Gursikhs usually tend to have a Gursikh standard, the fertility rate for the first one should one should be low; while the second type should reproduce like rabbits. (Bhai Jugraj Singh is an exceptional case, as Guru Sahib himself helped him, but that's a rare case). Some of our Punjabi/Subcontinental, (Non-Punjabi Subcontinental Sikhs), tend to have really bad things going on behind closed doors which makes children leave Sikhi.

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There's no doubt that power is in numbers (in many instances), and we need a greater number.  But I don't think blindly increasing the population is the answer.

So many Sikh families in Punjab who rely on agriculture have rather meager landholdings as it is.  What will happen if such families have many kids?  What will a family with 2 acres of land and 4 sons do?  Marginal landowners having a lot of kids will just propagate poverty.

 

In the west, on the other hand, I am all for Sikhs families strategically having 3-5 kids.  We desperately need the numbers.

Edited by californiasardar1
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Jacfsing2    1,885
10 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Muslims etc largely keep their women uneducated, and under control of males. It means their lives become literally as a breeding machine and servant to the husband. Women in general have seen what a raw deal that is... men get to live life while women are stuck living as a serf. So in general not just Sikhs but women also want a slice of life as well now. Doesn't mean they don't want kids at all but maybe 1 or 2 instead of spending their entire adult lives either pregnant or breast feeding. I'd rather produce 1 upstanding child than have a whole litter that I can't care for and at the same time have a life for myself too where I can also contribute to society in some way and be educated.

You can do what you want for yourself, but there is Seva in for a woman who gives birth to the future of Panth. 

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muscleman    203
1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

You can do what you want for yourself, but there is Seva in for a woman who gives birth to the future of Panth. 

You utter some of the most outrageous none sense as a man/woman on this board. *************************************

There is a world of difference between giving birth to the future panth with sikhi running through their veins than producing JANWARS left, right and centre prior any afore thought. No point in producing your 'litter' with diminished sikhi, civility and gentility. Manners maketh man.

*******************************************

You are making noises through your ars*ho*e when you say quantity is better over quality. 

*****************************************

Most reasonably sensible people would choose QUALITY over QUANTITY, but not you. Oh, no. You just need to do some time travel and transport yourself to the dark ages where you belong. Honestly, for a young person, for, you claim you are one, you talk rubbish only fit for the 6th/7th century.

*******************************************

The panth requires only few super brilliant people to lead it in the right direction and not trillions of JANWARS to bring its DOWNFALL.

********************************************

Edited by muscleman
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MisterrSingh    2,803
7 minutes ago, muscleman said:

There is a world of difference between giving birth to the future panth with sikhi running through their veins than producing JANWARS left, right and centre prior any afore thought. No point in producing your 'litter' with diminished sikhi, civility and gentility. Manners maketh man.

That's my thoughts on the subject summed up. For some reason that upsets a few people.

Crapping out a litter of feral little scrotes is somehow meant to translate into a superb fauj of Sikhs who somehow manage to embody all the qualities requires to navigate the tough terrain ahead of us. 

Muslims are NOT an example to aspire to. Their numbers mean NOTHING in the darbaar of the Lord.

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muscleman    203
6 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Muslims are NOT an example to aspire to. Their numbers mean NOTHING in the darbaar of the Lord.

Spot on!

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Jacfsing2    1,885
1 hour ago, muscleman said:

You utter some of the most outrageous none sense as a man/woman on this board. *************************************

There is a world of difference between giving birth to the future panth with sikhi running through their veins than producing JANWARS left, right and centre prior any afore thought. No point in producing your 'litter' with diminished sikhi, civility and gentility. Manners maketh man.

*******************************************

You are making noises through your ars*ho*e when you say quantity is better over quality. 

*****************************************

Most reasonably sensible people would choose QUALITY over QUANTITY, but not you. Oh, no. You just need to do some time travel and transport yourself to the dark ages where you belong. Honestly, for a young person, for, you claim you are one, you talk rubbish only fit for the 6th/7th century.

*******************************************

The panth requires only few super brilliant people to lead it in the right direction and not trillions of JANWARS to bring its DOWNFALL.

********************************************

I've never said quality is less than quanity if you read my first you'd notice what I said. I've merely mentioned that quality as well as quanity matter. Don't accuse me of saying I have never said.

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