Jump to content

Caste in Sikh Minds


Guest Jacfsing2
 Share

Recommended Posts

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 2:58 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Can anyone explain logically why caste still exists in our Panth? Especially among those who tell everyone caste doesn't exist to the outside, but when it comes for actually putting it into practice they forget everything about the right side. There are Hindus today who value their personal caste less than some Sikhs which is just depressing if you asked anyone. Also how can we logically combat this idea in some old-aged Pakhandis minds. Especially among Pakhandidharis, (those who took Amrit yet still keep Non-Sikh practices), which makes people question the need for Amrit. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

caste is a misused term mate.

I understand caste as origin, trade and tribe, roots etc.  But, hang on>>>> Discriminating against other castes is indeed a crime. 

When one caste disregards or puts down others, then yeh boy>>>, that's wrong.  I see all castes as equal and only see them through a fair lens. Be proud of your caste, be proud of your origin, be proud of your colour. Don't go around slating other castes or acting like you are from highr origin than guy next door.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The lifestyle of jatts/ramghariyas/chamars can vary vastly. Perhaps, that is why a "jatt" would be hesitant in letting his kids marry someone who is not a "jatt". Most importantly, it is often the people from "lower" castes who don't abandon their habits, they use sikhi to justify their equality without following and respecting other parts of sikhi. Not say all of them are included but quite a few.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Khalistanisinghni said:

The lifestyle of jatts/ramghariyas/chamars can vary vastly. Perhaps, that is why a "jatt" would be hesitant in letting his kids marry someone who is not a "jatt". Most importantly, it is often the people from "lower" castes who don't abandon their habits, they use sikhi to justify their equality without following and respecting other parts of sikhi. Not say all of them are included but quite a few.

I wouldn't have no problem with my kids marrying non-jatt because in terms of tribal trade, we don't do jack all here in UK.  Obviously, my ancestral  trade will no longer be in my blood line which is probably why I am quite proud to call myself with my inherited clan label.

I used to look at caste on the surface and automatically associate with cultural prejudice. But another fellow gurmukh Sikh friend of mine, showed me how the gurus were all married within caste and how it wasn't associated with discrimination. It's just that we people wrongly stick the two labels together.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's just cultural bs brought over by the previous generation.

If your parents are doctors, does that mean you are automatically a doctor as well? No, you have to study. Just because your parents are Sikh, it doesn't automatically make you a Sikh, you need to take Amrit yourself. 

It is not your janam, but your karam that decide who you are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that Guru ji gave us the best solution of all: total  responsibility for total freedom , you have become the brahmin, the warrior, the farmer, the merchant the sweeper for yourself and others ...i.e. you do not rely on others to do your job for you, but look to improve and support society by all your abilities and efforts always, to not be a slacker. 

It is funny how shocked my cousins got when I informed them that in the west people clean their own bathrooms and loos ... that there were no servants doing jobs for you in the majority of homes. I remember one said well then I don't want to be married abroad then. Honestly is it really so hard to do the dirty work of life and yet be a spiritually aware active member of society? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My parents are over 65 and Amritdhari. Makes me laugh when we are watching Sikh program on sky and someone with a certain style of dastaar is on TV and mother always has to point out that the person is a Mistry. Or she says 'tarkhan lagda aa'. Then I'll be like 'oh so he doesn't look like a Sikh then? Why you be treating man's differently?' then she be like 'they say themselves they are different with their Ramgarhia gurdwaras etc.' lol

When I ask them why they still believe in castes. They say people who are amritdhari don't have caste but everyone else we should treat accordingly. But then they still point out so and so was this caste before Amritdharis chak. Old punjab folk like my parents are really petty when it comes to things like this.

Another thing just to give an example of their way of thinking. They'll say it's okay, or even good for us if my sister ties rakhri on my wrist because I'm not amritdhari. But for them it's a strict no no. But then they try encourage us to do. Same with Lohri and other things. 

We've had plenty of conversations about this and I know they will never change their thinking. Many of the older generation are like this. Some changed but others refuse to. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, HardeepCov said:

My parents are over 65 and Amritdhari. Makes me laugh when we are watching Sikh program on sky and someone with a certain style of dastaar is on TV and mother always has to point out that the person is a Mistry. Or she says 'tarkhan lagda aa'. Then I'll be like 'oh so he doesn't look like a Sikh then? Why you be treating man's differently?' then she be like 'they say themselves they are different with their Ramgarhia gurdwaras etc.' lol

When I ask them why they still believe in castes. They say people who are amritdhari don't have caste but everyone else we should treat accordingly. But then they still point out so and so was this caste before Amritdharis chak. Old punjab folk like my parents are really petty when it comes to things like this.

Another thing just to give an example of their way of thinking. They'll say it's okay, or even good for us if my sister ties rakhri on my wrist because I'm not amritdhari. But for them it's a strict no no. But then they try encourage us to do. Same with Lohri and other things. 

We've had plenty of conversations about this and I know they will never change their thinking. Many of the older generation are like this. Some changed but others refuse to. 

It's because they've been stuck in those ways and they have embedded within them as normal all their lives, that any change or awareness will not shift them. Unless they see other elders they know, change their ways or thoughts, to them it's normal and it's difficult now to introduce new ways. 

If it's done earlier, then would have been easier, that's why the younger generations have a better chance to understand themselves and adjust and be able to put it into practice. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, HardeepCov said:

My parents are over 65 and Amritdhari. Makes me laugh when we are watching Sikh program on sky and someone with a certain style of dastaar is on TV and mother always has to point out that the person is a Mistry. Or she says 'tarkhan lagda aa'. Then I'll be like 'oh so he doesn't look like a Sikh then? Why you be treating man's differently?' then she be like 'they say themselves they are different with their Ramgarhia gurdwaras etc.' lol

When I ask them why they still believe in castes. They say people who are amritdhari don't have caste but everyone else we should treat accordingly. But then they still point out so and so was this caste before Amritdharis chak. Old punjab folk like my parents are really petty when it comes to things like this.

Another thing just to give an example of their way of thinking. They'll say it's okay, or even good for us if my sister ties rakhri on my wrist because I'm not amritdhari. But for them it's a strict no no. But then they try encourage us to do. Same with Lohri and other things. 

We've had plenty of conversations about this and I know they will never change their thinking. Many of the older generation are like this. Some changed but others refuse to. 

the same problems kept us young anglo-punjabis quite confused for years. Most of my mates at school could never understand this hypocrisy amongst Punjabi people..  

I spent most of my childhood behaving and trying to do what apnay people like to be SEEN doing. All this ever did, was lead to disorientated youth and penjees running away. It screwed me mentally so much that I was the lowest of low on the streets until I found a reformed old buddy who btw. is on this forum sometimes. This guy helped me to really find myself and taught me naam japna techniques.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hanging onto any form of caste (or even being romotely proud of it) is extremely anti-gurmat. You can argue all you want that caste includes trade (so it does) but it was also a really stupid label. Bhai Gurdas Ji said Guru Nanak Dev Ji merged all of them into 1, so everyone has the same caste (i.e label). Caste in context of Jatt, Khatri etc are all extremely narcissistic and Manmukh concoctions of Maya. The reason Caste is extremely stupid and completely against Gurmat is because we have people from ALL over the world who associate with it. Bhai Gurdas Ji explains that because of these divisions (yes you can cry all you want that all castes are equal but the divisions are still there) are nothing more than an ugly look and a product of Kalyug, because of this ugly look people fought and still do. So Guru Nanak merged them all into 1 "caste" of humanity. All of humanity has 1 history, 1 beginning, will have 1 end.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use