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22 minutes ago, chatanga said:

 

But it is though. A woman takes her husband's palla to follow him around Guru Granth Sahib. She is following in the footsteps he has already trodden.

But your husband is all about equality. tell him when there is a next family wedding, to get the male to hold the females palla and follow her around the lavan, because it's not about leading is it? Wonder why you were silent about it on your own wedding day?

That was a whole lot to digest. But glad to see someone who actually has some real knowledge 

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1 hour ago, chatanga said:

 

It's not a great point at all. After taking pahul you lose your caste, previous dharam affiliations etc. You do not lose your gender. You stop being whatever you were and become a Khalsa, but you dont stop being male or female.

 

Do you lose your age, height and various other personal characteristics?

 

I'm a really stupid person, so please explain to me what you lose and what you retain once you become a khalsa.

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jkvlondon    3,510
2 hours ago, Khalistanisinghni said:

What about taksal's maryada? 

Puratan maryada of dal is still khande da amrit since scholars from the dals stand by women who take khande da amrit. (The absence of any amrit for women in the beginning and the the development of kirpan da amrit just show that pita ji forgot about for the women and they had to add it when they realised there was "mistake" I.e. Amritdhari singhs couldn't eat the food cooked by their non-amritdhari women)

err Guru ji forgot or perhaps others didn't choose to give weight to the command that all sikhs who wanted charan di pahul would now have to take Khande di pahul? Guru Pita is abhul so it must be the latter.

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Akalifauj    792
3 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Why are you guys entertaining this lost cause.  She was causing a mess at Sikh awareness with her illogical posts.  She has a problem.  She has no true knowledge of Gurbani, Sikh history, or writings.  She flaps her arms around hoping someone will pay attention to her.  She has anger issues and self hate.  Remember the cartoons where the cat holds the ticking bomb hoping it won't explode but it does all the time.  She is the cat.  The bomb will go off and she will self destruct. 

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Mahakaal96    246
3 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

And what if the woman is the one who has 'already trodden' these footsteps by taking Amrit while the husband has yet to? You assume that the husband is the one who already is on spiritual path and that the woman requires to be led on to the spiritual path. 

The lavaans have nothing to do with delegating someone in charge over the other. If you think that then you are mistaken. The husband and wife as ONE are embarking on a NEW journey as ONE together. You can't assume that the husband was already pious while she needs to be led to spiritual path. She could be the more spiritually advanced of the two and in that case she would be the leader in their spiritual journey regardless of who's home they live or who walks in front. 

In our marriage I had just as much control of him as he had of me. If I wanted him to slow down all I had to do was pull back on the Palla. Remember in who's hand the palla is and around who's neck it is!!! My favourite analogy for those who want to make it into some statement of who gets to be in charge... think of the palls like reins and a chariot. The wife is the rider in control holding the reins. (Since you want to make it into something it's not). It actually has nothing to do with who gets to be 'in charge' and it has nothing to do with human marriage even. It's symbolic for soul journey back to Waheguru and the couple as ONE making that journey. It's all about who is in the centre. Guru Ji is at front not us. If you are after some hierarchy let marriage where you get to order your wife around (not sure if you are married because you never said so) but if that's what you want then there are plenty of other paths. 

For our marriage, my husband and I put Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the one 'in charge' and leading and neither one of us. We treat each other equally. He may have been 'in front' at the marriage but you'll find most times in our day to day life I am or we switch and that's where it matters more because that's our life. I know that bothers you that I have authority in my marriage as an equal. But our life is beautiful and we work together as a team with SGGSJ at centre stage. Even for paath we take turns reciting together meaning no one person leads. It's beautiful. 

By the way there are people who say 100 years ago their great grandparents never even circled SGGSJ they just stayed in front for all 4 lavaans. 

Tell me why all 10 Gurus were men? tell me why all 15 Bhagats with gurbani in SGGS are all men? Tell me why all panj pyare were men?

Most of the Gurus had more then 1 wife & in some cases had several wives... tell me how many wives had more then 1 husband? 

Tell me why all the the founders of all the major religions of the world were men? 

The truth is, men & women are equal in that they were both created by God but that's where the equality stops. They were created by God but created to fulfil different roles & duties....

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Akalifauj    792

Faithless cynics have this idea the social structure of society did not allow women to play a leader role in society at the time of the Gurus, hence their was no women Guru's in Sikhi.   Throughout Sikh history there have been women who took the lead in Sikh processions.  Sikh women have been given leader roles by the Gurus.  Sikh women took the leader role for Manji Sahib's.  The faithless cynics argument is baseless.  So why were their only Guru's who took the male form?  Because Akal Purakh made it that way.  As he commands things come into play.  Akal Purakh also asked for heads on 1699.  The people who stood up to this call were all men.  Men only stood up because that's what Akal Purakh hukam (command) was.  No one, but those 5 men would have stood up and given their head that day.  Did not matter if their was a Sant sitting in the sangat on that day.  Only those 5 men were commanded by Akal Purakh to stand up and present themselves to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji.  Bhai Jaita ji (after taking amrit became Bhai Jeevan Singh ji) was sitting in the sangat when the call was made by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji.  If you know the history of Bhai Jaita ji, you would understand the deep meaning of mentioning his name.  Bhai Jaita ji was the one who risked his life and household to bring back Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib ji head to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji.  This Gurmukh was sitting in the sangat, do you not think he would have given his head for the next Guru, when he risked his life for the last Guru?  We can play the "what if" game all day and nothing of value would become of it because we are not following Akal Purakh hukam to accept his decision.    Do you think it was just by chance the five men who stood up, just happened to be from different caste?  What do you take Akal Purakh to be some poker player?....I need 5 heads....Brahma bets 2 men and 3 women, Krishna bets 16000 women, shiva bets on one man?  It was going to be 5 men in the position of Punj Pyare and that was his command.  Jap ji Sahib says look at how many are singing Vaheguru's praises in so many different ways, but only those who follow his command are approved.  The faithless cynics believe they are in control, I want to go left, I go left.  It's all arrogant beliefs. Vaheguru's hukam can't be changed or altered.  Vaheguru hukam is perfect.   

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6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

So using your logic then no white singh can be one of Panj Pyaras, nor someone not of the same castes or from same area or same heights/ weight etc. Because the physical saroop has to be replicated 100% right? 

But guaranteed you will jump just to gender. Please explain to us why none of the other things matter but gender does? Please also tell us what is meant by sargun saroop. Are the five males we choose looking exactly like the original 5? Should we try to clone in science? If you think having a male genetalia is what sargun saroop means then you don't know anything at all. 

To be in his roop means to don the uniform he gave us including turban. It means to wear our good deeds and practice our Rehet with strict accordance. It means to be a living image of our Guru and set aside ego haume identity and find the light of Akal Purakh in all. It has nothing to do with having a male anatomy dangling down there. 

Try reading Gurbani sometime. GGSJ tells us that Akal Purakh IS the male and the female. It tells us INSTRUCTS us to see ALL equally. It says to base on our deeds and not our physical body. It says every human has the SAME capacity for spiritual advancement without hinderance.

Without realizing maybe, you have turned women into only being valued as a breeding machine and not valued in our own right. Are we only valued for being able to produce male children who can become the leaders in sikhi? Women were never supposed to be leaders or prominent? Just breeding machines here to serve men??? That's how other religions see us. Not how our Guru sees us!!!! 

TBH, your language just proves the brothers correct. What about go ask guru ji? I dare not say what Sant giani jarnail singh ji said was untrue and you are "smarter". So good day.

WJKK WJKF

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9 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

bro ,itihassic records say that the crowds at Anandpur were over 35,000 and Dal historians say there were not many women present , would it not be harsh to condemn women on the basis that they were not 5 out 35,000 ? They are not any less Children of Guru Pita ji and often in our history been the sole carers and makers of mahaan gursikhs  e.g. Bhai Taru Singh ji 

bros may consider being less condemning and more encouraging of your lost sisters ...return the favour 

There were over 80,000 Sikhs. Not sure where did you get the 35K.

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chatanga    1,068
7 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

Do you lose your age, height and various other personal characteristics?

 

I'm a really stupid person, so please explain to me what you lose and what you retain once you become a khalsa.

Yes you lose all those. Because you are a stupid person you will beleive it.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

So using your logic then no white singh can be one of Panj Pyaras, nor someone not of the same castes or from same area or same heights/ weight etc. Because the physical saroop has to be replicated 100% right?

 

And on it goes. We are no talking about physical sarop. You have dragged that into it. We are talking about gender.

You won't get away with your nonsense here.

 

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Without realizing maybe, you have turned women into only being valued as a breeding machine and not valued in our own right. Are we only valued for being able to produce male children who can become the leaders in sikhi? Women were never supposed to be leaders or prominent? Just breeding machines here to serve men??? That's how other religions see us. Not how our Guru sees us!!!! 

 

 

Other religions do not see us that way. It's really deceitful of you to try and play that card. You talk about Sri Guru Granth Sahib a lot, but yet haven't accepted the core principle of honesty.

 

As I told yo on Sikhawareness, once you do, your life will become a lot better.

 

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6 minutes ago, chatanga said:

Yes you lose all those. Because you are a stupid person you will beleive it.

 

 

And on it goes. We are no talking about physical sarop. You have dragged that into it. We are talking about gender.

You won't get away with your nonsense here.

 

 

 

Other religions do not see us that way. It's really deceitful of you to try and play that card. You talk about Sri Guru Granth Sahib a lot, but yet haven't accepted the core principle of honesty.

 

As I told yo on Sikhawareness, once you do, your life will become a lot better.

 

 

She is the same person commenting on this video as well ...

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jkvlondon    3,510
11 minutes ago, Khalistanisinghni said:

There were over 80,000 Sikhs. Not sure where did you get the 35K.

it was the number that were initiated  on that day according to more than one retelling I read including mughal spy account who became Ajmer Singh , I'm sure the ikatt was bigger but I didn't want to put down something I couldn't be sure of .

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chatanga    1,068
6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

And what if the woman is the one who has 'already trodden' these footsteps by taking Amrit while the husband has yet to?

 

O twisted one, we are talking lavan and now you want to bring in amrit sinchar to it?

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

The lavaans have nothing to do with delegating someone in charge over the other.

 

Who said they did? It's you who is throwing this muck around that if the man steps one foot in front of his wife then he is the leader and she is subservient. No-one else here is saying that women are subservient, in Gurmat or otherwise.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

In our marriage I had just as much control of him as he had of me. If I wanted him to slow down all I had to do was pull back on the Palla.

 

And if he wanted to drag you round all he had to do was put his back into it!

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 

 Remember in who's hand the palla is and around who's neck it is!!!

 

To add to all the stupid things you have repeated on  forums to the point pof making people vomit, this is one of the few that are equally hilarious. You are describing yourself as a noose around your husbands neck. How stupid is that? What do nooses do? They restrict breath until the victim dies. Is that what you really are? You can choose when to end your husbandds life?

You have said some realy stupid things on this forum. I would give up whilst you are  still a joke, rather than give up when you are a mental case.

 

For the benefit of other readers, I would like to point out that the palla is not worn around the neck but over the shoulder. Neither does the female pulling on the palla achieve anything The man still still have total control of the palla. Even if the woman stands stil, all that will happen is the pala will fall from her hands.

 

Something this harkiran creature did a long time ago, when she tried to place her own mat over the Guru's mat.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 My favourite analogy for those who want to make it into some statement of who gets to be in charge... think of the palls like reins and a chariot. The wife is the rider in control holding the reins.

 

And now your husbands a horse. Still his manure will go to mask the stench of manmat coming from you.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 He may have been 'in front' at the marriage but you'll find most times in our day to day life I am or we switch and that's where it matters more because that's our life. I know that bothers you that I have authority in my marriage as an equal.

 

There is no "may" about it. he was at tyhe front, you were behind hijm following in his EVERY footstep. And I couldn't care less about your married life. I feel sorry for your husband though, having to use his tail constantly to swat away all those flies and now there is one massive fly who won't stop buzzing.

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

 Even for paath we take turns reciting together meaning no one person leads.

 

You haven't even progressed beyond the Panjabi alphabet in the last 20 years, how can you be reading any paath?

 

6 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

By the way there are people who say 100 years ago their great grandparents never even circled SGGSJ they just stayed in front for all 4 lavaans. 

 

By the way, there are people who say that women never took Khande ki pahul 100 years ago. So what?

 

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chatanga    1,068
7 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

When I said 'us' I meant women not Sikhs. Other religions see women as subordinate and here to just serve men and bear children but never be leaders over men.

 

I meant women when I posted it.  No other religions say that Gurmat sees women as subordinate. Stop your lying...

 

7 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Our Gurus never saw us (as in women) in that way and women masands is proof...

 

of what? The greatest proof would have been if a woman was made Guru.

And there it ends heopfully. You haven't got anything to add to this topic so just give this forum and all other forums a break. Work on yourself first. Good luck.

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19 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

it was the number that were initiated  on that day according to more than one retelling I read including mughal spy account who became Ajmer Singh , I'm sure the ikatt was bigger but I didn't want to put down something I couldn't be sure of .

Guess i have to work on readings and katha :grin

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chatanga    1,068
22 minutes ago, Khalistanisinghni said:

She is the same person commenting on this video as well ...

 

Have just  had a look at those comments. the usual rubbish. She has said much worse about Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib. Each and every opportunity she gets, she is in there doing nindya. And for someone who can't even read basic gurmukhi, she tries to set herself up as some bastion of knowledge on Gurmat.

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