Khalistanisinghni

The modern day "Kaurs"

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this is just one example of the open boasting of wasteful , self-indulgent twits  who consider their parents as amusingly quaint at the least or total pendus at the other end for believing in prudence, sikhi and being ethical

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ok even my daughter asked me what she was hindu or sikh, her parents just look like Oh God , just get out of the way.  She's wearing literally ghungroo for a gurdwara wedding ...this is pretty typical girl  totally empty in between the ears, living for the labels and parties. Could sikhi ever reach her type?

 

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There are many like her in Canada/Australia/The US/UK. With parents being gursikh and the daughters/sons quite so to the other side. Perhaps it's the fame they get or the attention 

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21 minutes ago, Khalistanisinghni said:

N Oh then it's not gurmat maryada, it's manmat maryada. Forget about it, was never a maryada approved by the panth, do read the disclaimer next time!

 

clearly not able to see why is it that women have so many other sewas at gurdwara but would love to participate in panj Pyare. Had they really believed the Khalsa to not have any gender, they would have know that the gurus, sahibzaade and pyares were physically male for a reason while spiritually same as us women.

Gender is of no consequence. You say women have other seva? What seva do women have that men don't? None... why is it that men always have to have something to hold over women? Why is it that people like you can't follow Gurbani?

"As Gurmukh look upon ALL with a single eye of equality for in each and every heart the divine light is contained" SGGSJ

If you start saying that male form holds some superior significance then you are unconsciously consigning all souls in female bodies to a lesser existence. Then you have to ask why were we born female in the first place? Male is privileged so we must have messed up somehow to be born female right? Since the male form has privilege over female? 

You do know the soul is genderless right? And hose who merge their light with Waheguru see no difference between them and Waheguru then where does gender matter?

And if the Gurus themselves allowed women masands to initiate Sikhs by charan Amrit then who are you to say it's wrong for a bibi of high avastha to initiate someone now as part of the Panj Pyaras? Let's stop playing man made Maryadas games and go to the source, Gurbani. Show me where in our only Guru, Guru Granth Sahib Ji where it says women should have any less rights than men in ANY sphere be it religious, social, family. 

You can keep looking down in yourself as femalemif you want to but I know my Gurus saw me in no lesser light than a male. Women can be just as brave and courageous and loyal and fight to the death as men can. 

Panthic Maryada took many years with many high level Sikhs present and referred to many rahitnamas and historical works and of course most emphasis was put on Gurbani, did it agree with Gurbani. The consensus was yes women can take part in Amrit sanchars as one of the Panj Pyaras. If you don't like it you can feel free to stick with your dera who sees you as lesser than a man. It's up to you. Ask yourself if you truly feel like you are lesser, are you being punished to be born female? Maybe read in a Gurbani where it says this HUMAN body is precious. Not just male human bodies. Waheguru doesn't give some humans preference over others based on what genitals they have. That's for procreation of species only. Get out of the Hindu mindset where women are seen as lesser spiritually than men. 

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47 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

ok even my daughter asked me what she was hindu or sikh, her parents just look like Oh God , just get out of the way.  She's wearing literally ghungroo for a gurdwara wedding ...this is pretty typical girl  totally empty in between the ears, living for the labels and parties. Could sikhi ever reach her type?

 

What is it with these girls, it's the same pouty facial expressions.

Selfies,  professional photos it does not matter, it's always the same.

The level of narcissism is beyond me.

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Just now, Ranjeet01 said:

What is it with these girls, it's the same pouty facial expressions.

Selfies,  professional photos it does not matter, it's always the same.

The level of narcissism is beyond me.

suddenly gursikh bibian seem more appealing huh?

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3 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

suddenly gursikh bibian seem more appealing huh?

Of course. Gursikh bibian do not pull silly faces 😁

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Just now, Ranjeet01 said:

Of course. Gursikh bibian do not pull silly faces 😁

course not they've had a humour bypass

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a couple of vlogs That give me hope 

and :

 

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Don't want to offend anyone, but women have no business in being in the Punj Pyare because the Punj Pyare represent Guru Sahib and the first 10 of the Gurus were male. (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only one who is genderless), among that if we believe that Punj Pyare represent Guru Sahib you'd realize why they can't be Punj Pyare. Amrit is still important for both genders, and anyone who gives Kirpan-Di-Amrit to a woman is a Pakhandi. There is one Amrit: which came from Charan Pahul to Khandi-Di-Pahul which is required for both genders!

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6 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Don't want to offend anyone, but women have no business in being in the Punj Pyare because the Punj Pyare represent Guru Sahib and the first 10 of the Gurus were male. (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only one who is genderless), among that if we believe that Punj Pyare represent Guru Sahib you'd realize why they can't be Punj Pyare. Amrit is still important for both genders, and anyone who gives Kirpan-Di-Amrit to a woman is a Pakhandi. There is one Amrit: which came from Charan Pahul to Khandi-Di-Pahul which is required for both genders!

That reasoning is the worst possible reasoning lol

It's simple. Panj piyare who gave their head were male so to represent them you need 5 Singhs no if and or buts about it. If one or more were Bibi jis then appropriately they would be in Panj 

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Just now, Jacfsing2 said:

Don't want to offend anyone, but women have no business in being in the Punj Pyare because the Punj Pyare represent Guru Sahib and the first 10 of the Gurus were male. (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only one who is genderless), among that if we believe that Punj Pyare represent Guru Sahib you'd realize why they can't be Punj Pyare. Amrit is still important for both genders, and anyone who gives Kirpan-Di-Amrit to a woman is a Pakhandi. There is one Amrit: which came from Charan Pahul to Khandi-Di-Pahul which is required for both genders!

but you have no objection to a female granthi ?  Because I agree that it would be improper to expect a bibi to get ready and change into bana with her bros as is part of the preparation of the panj . Each time one of the panj reads a bani to prepare the amrit he represents the Guru/ App parmeshvar , no female guru ji so no female panj. 

This whole female panj thing was introduced by 3HO manmat . Also that huge protest at harmandir Sahib about palkisahib sewa .

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7 minutes ago, Singh559 said:

That reasoning is the worst possible reasoning lol

It's simple. Panj piyare who gave their head were male so to represent them you need 5 Singhs no if and or buts about it. If one or more were Bibi jis then appropriately they would be in Panj 

So tell me why does their gender matter? Does their caste matter? Should we only allow those from the castes who volunteered that day? How about skin colour? Should no white singhs be allowed since no white singh volunteered heir head that day? Why is it only gender matters???? And please use Gurbani to support your answer. 

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7 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

but you have no objection to a female granthi ?  Because I agree that it would be improper to expect a bibi to get ready and change into bana with her bros as is part of the preparation of the panj . Each time one of the panj reads a bani to prepare the amrit he represents the Guru/ App parmeshvar , no female guru ji so no female panj. 

This whole female panj thing was introduced by 3HO manmat . Also that huge protest at harmandir Sahib about palkisahib sewa .

Not 3HO.... there were females in Panj Pyaras long before 3HO. And AKJ openly practices it. 

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5 minutes ago, Singh559 said:

That reasoning is the worst possible reasoning lol

It's simple. Panj piyare who gave their head were male so to represent them you need 5 Singhs no if and or buts about it. If one or more were Bibi jis then appropriately they would be in Panj 

What's wrong with what I said? The Punj Pyare represent the Guru.

 

4 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

but you have no objection to a female granthi ?  Because I agree that it would be improper to expect a bibi to get ready and change into bana with her bros as is part of the preparation of the panj . Each time one of the panj reads a bani to prepare the amrit he represents the Guru/ App parmeshvar , no female guru ji so no female panj. 

This whole female panj thing was introduced by 3HO manmat . Also that huge protest at harmandir Sahib about palkisahib sewa .

In a non-Amrit Sanchar session I have no objection to a female Granthis; however, for Amrit Sanchar I have no side but wouldn't want it personally. (Not an issue worth fighting for, but female in Punj Pyare is something I am completely against). Female Punj Pyare started with that Randhir Singh, who st one moment allowed a female Punj Pyare to give Amrit since their were no males, my view is this INVITE SOME OUTSIDER AMRITDHARI SINGH BEFORE ALLOWING A KAUR TO BE A PUNJ PYARE

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19 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Don't want to offend anyone, but women have no business in being in the Punj Pyare because the Punj Pyare represent Guru Sahib and the first 10 of the Gurus were male. (Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only one who is genderless), among that if we believe that Punj Pyare represent Guru Sahib you'd realize why they can't be Punj Pyare. Amrit is still important for both genders, and anyone who gives Kirpan-Di-Amrit to a woman is a Pakhandi. There is one Amrit: which came from Charan Pahul to Khandi-Di-Pahul which is required for both genders!

If you are reducing the Gurus to a gender you have really missed the mark! They were one with Akal purakh. Gender was meaningless. The reason for male form was that in that time a female form would have been ignored. Even today most men see women as inferior and lower spiritually. This thread is a good example.

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2 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

What's wrong with what I said? The Punj Pyare represent the Guru.

 

In a non-Amrit Sanchar session I have no objection to a female Granthis; however, for Amrit Sanchar I have no side but wouldn't want it personally. (Not an issue worth fighting for, but female in Punj Pyare is something I am completely against). Female Punj Pyare started with that Randhir Singh, who st one moment allowed a female Punj Pyare to give Amrit since their were no males, my view is this INVITE SOME OUTSIDER AMRITDHARI SINGH BEFORE ALLOWING A KAUR TO BE A PUNJ PYARE

Your post reeks of hatred towards women.  That and a bit of superiority complex since you are male. 

Edited by HarkiranKaur

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9 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

If you are reducing the Gurus to a gender you have really missed the mark! They were one with Akal purakh. Gender was meaningless. The reason for male form was that in that time a female form would have been ignored. Even today most men see women as inferior and lower spiritually. This thread is a good example.

8 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Your post reeks of hatred towards women.  That and a bit of superiority complex since you are male. 

My post is not hatred for women, but rather love for Guru Sahib. I haven't even mentioned anything that was about females being inferior to men. In fact from Gurbani mentions how from women even kings are born. If you think it's because of me wanting to be a Punj Pyare, let me tell you I don't feel good enough myself for such a duty. This Seva should require the ultimate strictness and one of those rules being male. The rest some other person can argue with you, because as far as I know you probably haven't even taken Amrit, yet still arguing on something far extended even normal rules. Someone else can do Seva of teaching you. This is my last post on this topic. I said what I needed to say.

Edited by Jacfsing2
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16 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Not 3HO.... there were females in Panj Pyaras long before 3HO. And AKJ openly practices it. 

sis,  3ho have been in circulation since the 1970s and they are the ones who circulated pictures of all female panj piare (some of the faces I have seen in connection with hindu worship also) ...I can't say I've seen a mixed Panj yet but due to the gurmat  kamai based selection criteria of akj panj I could imagine them having no objections.  

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13 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Your post reeks of hatred towards women.  That and a bit of superiority complex since you are male. 

Can you think of any Sikh women that lead sangat in Gurmat processions in Sikh history from 1469 to 1708?

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33 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

What's wrong with what I said? The Punj Pyare represent the Guru.

 

In a non-Amrit Sanchar session I have no objection to a female Granthis; however, for Amrit Sanchar I have no side but wouldn't want it personally. (Not an issue worth fighting for, but female in Punj Pyare is something I am completely against). Female Punj Pyare started with that Randhir Singh, who st one moment allowed a female Punj Pyare to give Amrit since their were no males, my view is this INVITE SOME OUTSIDER AMRITDHARI SINGH BEFORE ALLOWING A KAUR TO BE A PUNJ PYARE

mate don't you think that last comment was more than a little harsh , you admit yourself that there were no males  of the required calibre thus another khalsa of appropriate calibre was used ... Bhai Randhir Singh would have known their level of kamai due his own level . 

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I wonder if this is deja vu with discussion about who can be the punj pyare.

I am sure this has been discussed before.

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29 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

mate don't you think that last comment was more than a little harsh , you admit yourself that there were no males  of the required calibre thus another khalsa of appropriate calibre was used ... Bhai Randhir Singh would have known their level of kamai due his own level . 

I can understand why my views might be a bit harsh, but with someone like Randhir Singh, who's famous for not compromising on many parts he believed were Gurmat, to compromise something which is common knowledge is just ridiculous. Woman should take Amrit, which is something important; however, equally important in maintaining the sacredness of this Seva, there are so many other wonderful Sevas, Prachars, and Gurmat-oriented for a woman to do, all of them important and can inspire Kaurs of all ages to do right things. I'd really like to see Randhir Singh have the guts to do this at Mehta or Bhindran or even Nanded, he never did this there because he knew what was right and wrong. Baba Deep Singh Ji would've given him some form of punishment.

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1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

My post is not hatred for women, but rather love for Guru Sahib. I haven't even mentioned anything that was about females being inferior to men. In fact from Gurbani mentions how from women even kings are born. If you think it's because of me wanting to be a Punj Pyare, let me tell you I don't feel good enough myself for such a duty. This Seva should require the ultimate strictness and one of those rules being male. The rest some other person can argue with you, because as far as I know you probably haven't even taken Amrit, yet still arguing on something far extended even normal rules. Someone else can do Seva of teaching you. This is my last post on this topic. I said what I needed to say.

If you have such Love for the Guru then respect your only and eternal Guru, Guru Granth Sahib ji. Gurbani says as Gurmukh to see ALL with a single eye of equality (which means treat equally) for in each and every heart the divine light is contained. That divine light is the ONE and only light of Akal Purakh. By dismissing bibis with a statement like that to say an outsider Singh is still better than such a lowly Kaur, you are actually refusing Akal Purakh in female form to do this seva! Gurbani says he IS the male AND the female. The chess player and the board, it's the same ONE actor who is playing ALL the characters. This world is an illusion. A dream. Gender is transient and inconsequential. A <banned word filter activated> won't get you anywhere when this life is done. 

For your information yes I have taken Amrit at a historical Gurdwara in Kashmir. And the Panj Pyaras that day specifically told us Kaur's present that day they WANT to see some of us in their place some day and that there is NOTHING in Gurbani that prohibits it. Gurbani sees all humans as equal. It's male ego who can't let go of privilege. 

There is a saying that for those who have been always given privilege, equality seems like oppression to them. That's why men who have had it so good for so long feel so threatened to give Kaurs their due right to equality. 

Preparing amrit does not require male anatomy. It requires high avastha which both males and females can attain and it requires strict Rehet and physical ability to carry out the ceremony. The light of the Guru is genderless. Guru Ji will come if any five Sikhs with high avastha are preparing Amrit. Learn to see past the physical shell and see the divine light instead. 

Edited by HarkiranKaur
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3 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

If you have such Love for the Guru then respect your only and eternal Guru, Guru Granth Sahib ji. Gurbani says as Gurmukh to see ALL with a single eye of equality (which means treat equally) for in each and every heart the divine light is contained. That divine light is the ONE and only light of Akal Purakh. By dismissing bibis with a statement like that to say an outsider Singh is still better than such a lowly Kaur, you are actually refusing Akal Purakh in female form to do this seva! Gurbani says he IS the male AND the female. The chess player and the board, it's the same ONE actor who is playing ALL the characters. This world is an illusion. A dream. Gender is transient and inconsequential. A <banned word filter activated> won't get you anywhere when this life is done. 

For your information yes I have taken Amrit at a historical Gurdwara in Kashmir. And the Panj Pyaras that day specifically told us Kaur's present that day they WANT to see some of us in their place some day and that there is NOTHING in Gurbani that prohibits it. Gurbani sees all humans as equal. It's male ego who can't let go of privilege. 

There is a saying that for those who have been always given privilege, equality seems like oppression to them. That's why men who have had it so good for so long feel so threatened to give Kaurs their due right to equality. 

Preparing amrit does not require male anatomy. It requires high avastha which both males and females can attain and it requires strict Rehet and physical ability to carry out the ceremony. The light of the Guru is genderless. Guru Ji will come if any five Sikhs with high avastha are preparing Amrit. Learn to see past the physical shell and see the divine light instead. 

Don't know if your fluent in English but:

1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

This is my last post on this topic. I said what I needed to say.

From my side, I'm done with the arguing with you, argue with someone else now. :waheguru:

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