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Jacfsing2    1,834
2 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The crux of this particular issue is in the context of hair.

Hair all over the body is seen as a masculine trait. Therefore, it is seen as acceptable for an Amritdhari male. 

However, in society hair outside the head area is not seen as a feminine trait.

The problem is Amritdharis are seen as somehow above being human and are enhanced spiritual beings. They are still humans and humans are going to human.

Several years of Amritdhari ness may not be enough over-ride thousands of years of hardwired biology.

 

28 minutes ago, kcmidlands said:

This is interesting because i know of a few Amritdhari Singhs who married non-amritdhari women and 2 of them have take Amrit a few years after they got married (one of the ladies even ties a dastaar) but their husband's still drop hint's about removing any excess hair and "shaping them eyebrows", double standards a-plenty from the men.

It take's a strong man, both in mentality and spirituality to accept his wife if she has taken amrit and her appearance doesn't "comply" with the norms of society but it takes an even stronger woman to take amrit reject the norms of society and follow Guru sahib.

 

Kesh is something that's a beautiful thing for men and women. But forget Kesh, if there isn't respect in a marriage then what is there going to be? 

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jkvlondon    3,419
38 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The crux of this particular issue is in the context of hair.

Hair all over the body is seen as a masculine trait. Therefore, it is seen as acceptable for an Amritdhari male. 

However, in society hair outside the head area is not seen as a feminine trait.

The problem is Amritdharis are seen as somehow above being human and are enhanced spiritual beings. They are still humans and humans are going to human.

Several years of Amritdhari ness may not be enough over-ride thousands of years of hardwired biology.

which society mate ? MUslim maybe but then again even the men do full Hijamit including the kacchera region. roman, greek, christian, jewish , hindu but all these are about doing things to please the men and the fact that women are supposed to be sexually available always shows that it is kaam based .

AMritdharis are not to do the four Hs hookah, Halal, Haram and Hijamat...  this is from the get go ... so no not in Sikh culture. 

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Ranjeet01    1,089
2 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

which society mate ? MUslim maybe but then again even the men do full Hijamit including the kacchera region. roman, greek, christian, jewish , hindu but all these are about doing things to please the men and the fact that women are supposed to be sexually available always shows that it is kaam based .

AMritdharis are not to do the four Hs hookah, Halal, Haram and Hijamat...  this is from the get go ... so no not in Sikh culture. 

I am generalising here. 

Are Sikhs a culture?

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sikhni777    551

The need for the modern day woman to go out and work is a great factor which determines why our girls are not ready to commit to being amritdhari. Most would say - even the Amritdhari would say one thing - we remember God from the depth of our heart and we are not too concerned about outward experience. 

In the olden days, when looks did not matter as much - a little facial hair or leg or arm hair would not make anyone self conscious. Therefore when our girls have to mingle with others who keep their skins looking clean and hairless - they get the inferiority complex. So girls would not like to commit the paap of taking amrit only to break it - as it is called - later. 

People had Amrit and they supported it in the olden days when they were actually faced with the prospect of extinction. If the Sikhs had not expanded and multiplied by the one son which the Hindus gave to become Sikh, then Sikhi would not survived up to today. It almost seems like there is no need for physical wars which was a necessity in the earlier times. 

Sikhi has to be redifined and preached as a saviour of our souls. Naam jap comes first. Kesha dhari Sikhs giving bad or rude words to ones to cut their hair - is not a solution. The proper understanding of the basics of our religion is the one which is going to save our religion.

 

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MisterrSingh    2,802
3 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Personally I'd not be too interested in a Jatha-fanatic to be spreading Gurmat, especially since each Jatha has it's Pakhand. We all know the Jatha which inspires the most women to take Amrit from before marriage, (not going to directly name it as some Jatha-fanatic would be complaining about it), and even that Jatha has it's personal problems. Keeping Rehat and taking Amrit are both wonderful things; however, if your not willing to comprimise on controversial issues especially when your side and the other Sikh persons views are radically different don't mention it, and don't try going to a Rishta if you view it important to you. Also we all hopefully remember that girl that married the Mahapurukh and just starting complaing that he wasn't wordly enough.

Totally agree.

Yet jatha adherence and fervour for certain personalities seems to be getting out of hand. I'm not sure you're referring to the same jatha I'm alluding to - let's not begin a guessing game - but it is a problem which, amazingly, isn't considered to be a big deal. Oh but it will be a huge deal one day. 

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jkvlondon    3,419
1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I am generalising here. 

Are Sikhs a culture?

i think so they have their own script , language (nihang boli , gurmukhi/old panjabi), festivals seperate from punjabi culture ones, customs for the main landmarks in life , sense of ethics, philosophy of life sangeet  schools, instruments etc etc

Edited by jkvlondon

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jkvlondon    3,419
44 minutes ago, sikhni777 said:

The need for the modern day woman to go out and work is a great factor which determines why our girls are not ready to commit to being amritdhari. Most would say - even the Amritdhari would say one thing - we remember God from the depth of our heart and we are not too concerned about outward experience. 

In the olden days, when looks did not matter as much - a little facial hair or leg or arm hair would not make anyone self conscious. Therefore when our girls have to mingle with others who keep their skins looking clean and hairless - they get the inferiority complex. So girls would not like to commit the paap of taking amrit only to break it - as it is called - later. 

People had Amrit and they supported it in the olden days when they were actually faced with the prospect of extinction. If the Sikhs had not expanded and multiplied by the one son which the Hindus gave to become Sikh, then Sikhi would not survived up to today. It almost seems like there is no need for physical wars which was a necessity in the earlier times. 

Sikhi has to be redifined and preached as a saviour of our souls. Naam jap comes first. Kesha dhari Sikhs giving bad or rude words to ones to cut their hair - is not a solution. The proper understanding of the basics of our religion is the one which is going to save our religion.

 

clean and hairless ? see how even you are using their language , kesh are not dirty if you bathe regularly . realise how those adverts seep into your subconcious so that we inadvertently use similar language ourselves. 

the way I am handling it with little Isher Kaur is explaining to her the jobs that her rom do for her, how it's part of her and she is lovely as Waheguru ji made her. 

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Jacfsing2    1,834
1 hour ago, sikhni777 said:

If the Sikhs had not expanded and multiplied by the one son which the Hindus gave to become Sikh, then Sikhi would not survived up to today.

Only Khatris did this, and among Khatris only Punjabi Khatris.

 

30 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

rom

Forgive me, but what's rom?

 

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Are Sikhs a culture?

Depends upon what you mean by culture?

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jkvlondon    3,419
1 minute ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Only Khatris did this, and among Khatris only Punjabi Khatris.

 

Forgive me, but what's rom?

 

Depends upon what you mean by culture?

rom the hair pores i.e. all the hair on the skin

 

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Jacfsing2    1,834
48 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Totally agree.

Yet jatha adherence and fervour for certain personalities seems to be getting out of hand. I'm not sure you're referring to the same jatha I'm alluding to - let's not begin a guessing game - but it is a problem which, amazingly, isn't considered to be a big deal. Oh but it will be a huge deal one day. 

Totally agree, when I Chacked Amrit I felt like I would be the only one in modern day without a Jatha; (gladly I was wrong on that). Also even among members of the same Jatha getting married there is a chance of divorces still happening because of not being open-minded to any differences from each other. (Hopefully this close-mindedness dies someday or else we'll just look like a joke of a group of people to an extent that still hasn't been seen). Sometimes I feel some people take looking for Rishtas as something like middle schoolers making-up some perfect boyfriend/husband who completely agrees in every mindset. (Sadly, to anyone who still thinks like that in past 20: perfection only exists in Vaheguru, and no offense to anyone but if you think you're all that great, and even if you probably are; you aren't seated on the true throne of Guru Sahib.) Hopefully people aren't so extreme and having divorces over something comparable to putting on your right shoe first or your left shoe first, (that's how silly Jatha-fanatics are these days). 

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jkvlondon    3,419
11 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Totally agree, when I Chacked Amrit I felt like I would be the only one in modern day without a Jatha; (gladly I was wrong on that). Also even among members of the same Jatha getting married there is a chance of divorces still happening because of not being open-minded to any differences from each other. (Hopefully this close-mindedness dies someday or else we'll just look like a joke of a group of people to an extent that still hasn't been seen). Sometimes I feel some people take looking for Rishtas as something like middle schoolers making-up some perfect boyfriend/husband who completely agrees in every mindset. (Sadly, to anyone who still thinks like that in past 20: perfection only exists in Vaheguru, and no offense to anyone but if you think you're all that great, and even if you probably are; you aren't seated on the true throne of Guru Sahib.) Hopefully people aren't so extreme and having divorces over something comparable to putting on your right shoe first or your left shoe first, (that's how silly Jatha-fanatics are these days). 

couldn't this be a simple case of adjustment e.g. someone reads extra bani the other wears a dastar even the women don't have to now  ...and they carry on progressing . I am surprised that divorces have happened due to  such small differences , but then again they are surrounded by narcisstic special snowflake attitudes in the general population

Mum and Dad had amrit with us at an AKJ rehnsabhai because it was the closest to us and we gained sangat of Akj people, DDT, independents we never got into the politics just paid attention to the real deal Gurbani , simran and sewa and that's I think it should be . I put a dastar on , but my sisters who just wear a chunni have my love and respect too there is no difference . The only thing that bothers me is the pretentiousness that the youth have and the increasing intolerance . Maybe it's a recent thing , maybe hate speech such as Dhumma did against Ranjit Singh (and other jathey) is something that is going on behind the scenes I'm not sure but it really is saddening after seeing the true love for each other that vadde Singhs had and have for each other  during the seventies and eighties .

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Jacfsing2    1,834
1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

couldn't this be a simple case of adjustment e.g. someone reads extra bani the other wears a dastar even the women don't have to now  ...and they carry on progressing . I am surprised that divorces have happened due to  such small differences , but then again they are surrounded by narcisstic special snowflake attitudes in the general population

Mum and Dad had amrit with us at an AKJ rehnsabhai because it was the closest to us and we gained sangat of Akj people, DDT, independents we never got into the politics just paid attention to the real deal Gurbani , simran and sewa and that's I think it should be . I put a dastar on , but my sisters who just wear a chunni have my love and respect too there is no difference . The only thing that bothers me is the pretentiousness that the youth have and the increasing intolerance . Maybe it's a recent thing , maybe hate speech such as Dhumma did against Ranjit Singh (and other jathey) is something that is going on behind the scenes I'm not sure but it really is saddening after seeing the true love for each other that vadde Singhs had and have for each other  during the seventies and eighties .

The entire situation is really sad to be honest. Gurbachana and Indra didn't go around looking for AKJs and Taksalis to kill; they looked to kill Sikhs. The rest of the world when they see us fighting see Sikhs fighting, not AKJs, Taksali, etc. fighting. Today that Prem that existed in 78 would be very hard to see, especially with intense disrespect for even Amrit of other Jathas, people shouldn't be saying one Amrit is right or another is right, since they only requirement should be it's made with Sarbloh Batta, Sarbloh Khanda, Punj Pyare Singhs all memorize Nitnem, and giving-out the Rehat.

Also about the divorce situations going around with Amritdharis; only Vaheguru can help us with that. It seems to be easier for Non-Amritdharis to just ask what is the benefit of it; when our people make simple excuses to break a Guru's Rishta. Also something that is sad is some Amritdharis who are normally all great and Chardi-Kala seem to make exceptions for being great when it comes to Anand Karajs, (it's so bad that they'll even bring their own manmat into it).

And to remind us of the title of the topic, there seems to clearly be a lack of Prachar for women being Amritdhari; then for men.

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jkvlondon    3,419
10 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

The entire situation is really sad to be honest. Gurbachana and Indra didn't go around looking for AKJs and Taksalis to kill; they looked to kill Sikhs. The rest of the world when they see us fighting see Sikhs fighting, not AKJs, Taksali, etc. fighting. Today that Prem that existed in 78 would be very hard to see, especially with intense disrespect for even Amrit of other Jathas, people shouldn't be saying one Amrit is right or another is right, since they only requirement should be it's made with Sarbloh Batta, Sarbloh Khanda, Punj Pyare Singhs all memorize Nitnem, and giving-out the Rehat.

Also about the divorce situations going around with Amritdharis; only Vaheguru can help us with that. It seems to be easier for Non-Amritdharis to just ask what is the benefit of it; when our people make simple excuses to break a Guru's Rishta. Also something that is sad is some Amritdharis who are normally all great and Chardi-Kala seem to make exceptions for being great when it comes to Anand Karajs, (it's so bad that they'll even bring their own manmat into it).

And to remind us of the title of the topic, there seems to clearly be a lack of Prachar for women being Amritdhari; then for men.

Amrit is made the same ,with the same Khanda , the same sarbloh baata,  with same banian , with the same blessings of Guru ji's nadar There IS ONLY ONE AMRIT , ONE NAAM    since when did Guru ji's blessing become wrong or right dependent on the people hosting the sanchar??

 We need to spread the love we have received from Guru Sahib and our elders on the Path

We need to remind apne that marriage is meant to be for this life time  and to be slow to wed after making sure that qualities and expectations of life are matched closely, and have counsellors preferably male and female versed in gurmat to help couples when they get stuck ... no matter what stage they are in life (so many older couples are struggling but would balk at airing dirty linen to goray)

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Jacfsing2    1,834
4 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

Amrit is made the same ,with the same Khanda , the same sarbloh baata,  with same banian , with the same blessings of Guru ji's nadar There IS ONLY ONE AMRIT , ONE NAAM    since when did Guru ji's blessing become wrong or right dependent on the people hosting the sanchar??

 We need to spread the love we have received from Guru Sahib and our elders on the Path

We need to remind apne that marriage is meant to be for this life time  and to be slow to wed after making sure that qualities and expectations of life are matched closely, and have counsellors preferably male and female versed in gurmat to help couples when they get stuck ... no matter what stage they are in life (so many older couples are struggling but would balk at airing dirty linen to goray)

Some people do think about right or wrong:

 

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sikhni777    551
5 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

clean and hairless ? see how even you are using their language , kesh are not dirty if you bathe regularly . realise how those adverts seep into your subconcious so that we inadvertently use similar language ourselves. 

the way I am handling it with little Isher Kaur is explaining to her the jobs that her rom do for her, how it's part of her and she is lovely as Waheguru ji made her. 

I am INdeed talking about them In their language 

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