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Could you name 10 Sikhs in the west that did something for Sikhi?

35 posts in this topic

15 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Be bReductivism leads to hate.. This is where you end up 

I don't hate anyone. I just hurt inside when I see Singh's come up with any and all excuses to give their sisters, daughters, Mothers less rights than they have simply because of something which one has no control over. I don't feel hatred I feel sad and upset. I feel frustrated and hurt. Especially when on one hand Sikhi touts itself being a religion (the only religion) which has equity but when you really look it doesn't. Males still have privilege not just in jathas which won't allow women to do seva as Panj Pyaras but also keep them from gurdwara management, keep them from seva during time of the month, perpetuate the idea that a wife is subordinate to and must serve her husband (while he enjoys the privilege of higher position over her and doesn't have to serve her). Women are kept from kirtan at Darbar Sahib and I know of some absolutely beautiful female kirtanis who's voices would hit anyone in their heart with such emotion for Waheguru. Women are kept from Granthi positions at Darbar Sahib and most other Gurdwaras as well. Also ishnan seva. Sikh girls last year were kicked out of a nagar kirtan parade as nishanshis police called to remove them and the police were told 'girls are not allowed to do this'. If you all believe in equality why does this all happen? Why is Sikh Rehet Maryada and Gurbani not enough? Why does one persons opinion from a specific jatha (ddt) hold so much weight over panthic decision and Gurbani on these issues? 

So no I hate nobody. I have never even called anyone names. Only you guys have. I only feel hurt and seen as lesser by Singh's because of something I had no control over, my gender and it's not even something I can change like if I do something wrong I can fix it and improve but I can't change my gender. So if it's bad to be female or itsbsomehownlesser in Waheguru eyes then how did I end up this way and why and how can I fix it? Is it punishment? If the divine light is in all equally then why can't everyone be treated equally and not have statuses that are related to things they can't control like gender? As soon as we start to put people in hierarchies based on birth then we are no better than Hindus with caste are we? 

I do not hate anyone. I feel devastated when I see these things. 

I have never had venom for anyone rathe ryou guys have all had for me because of Chatanga and what he had siad and because I pointed out what Sikh Rehet Maryada says? I still have not even called Chatanga any names for what he did but have you noticed how many names I have been called in just the last 24 hours on here? 

And my comments on 3HO still stand. I have seen members using yoga mats with Gurbani and they are sitting and stretching and doing tantric couple yoga on that. 

 

Edited by HarkiranKaur

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Chardikala jatha are hazoori rages. Linking them with 3ho has got nothing to do with Sikhism. It's like linking me with the ragamuffin rastas that I used to hang out with.  So what you guys wanna call me a "ganja Sikh" ???

I can't believe how members can just rant the same thing and absolutely have no idea what yoga really is. shame on you!!

most importantly for me, I wouldn't have discovered what Sikhi was about until some 3ho goray caught my attention and opened my eyes. and if any of you guys think that my vision is distorted, then I respectfully challenge you to show me as per gurbani and nothing else. No videos, no hearsay, just the ultimate truth of gurbani.

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15 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

do you know what the true qualification is to be hazoori raagi?

This is what the bare minimum you need to have to be able to do kirtan sewa at Harmandir sahib and other Gurdwarey. you need to have mastered all 31 raags in Guru ji and have memorised over 100 shabads  as you are not allowed to be reading off pothian and phones . Shudh uccharan is also a major issue for kirtaniyas.

I doubt seriously Anyone in yogi Bhajan's group who visited and performed in 1971 qualified  but the committee stretched the rules because the outfit were supported by Indira  and they were Goray ... Truth is most of them hadn't had amrit until they got to India and didn't know what it entailed or its significance but Yogi sold it to them . 

Ask any kirtaniya how many years it takes to achieve that level of mastery and they'll tell you many many years.

are you serious here??

You are saying that chardikala jatha are some Back door hazoori ragees ..shame on you again,

 

 

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3 minutes ago, JUSTAJATT said:

Chardikala jatha are hazoori rages. Linking them with 3ho has got nothing to do with Sikhism. It's like linking me with the ragamuffin rastas that I used to hang out with.  So what you guys wanna call me a "ganja Sikh" ???

I can't believe how members like jkv can just rant the same thing and absolutely have no idea what yoga really is. shame on you!!

most importantly for me, I wouldn't have discovered what Sikhi was about until some 3ho goray caught my attention and opened my eyes. and if any of you guys think that my vision is distorted, then I respectfully challenge you to show me as per gurbani and nothing else. No videos, no hearsay, just the ultimate truth of gurbani.

I am not saying all 3HO are full of bad people but just that on the one hand being raagis and long term sikhs , the members of the jatha should know better than to say such disrespectful things towards Guru ji . I have no problem with their kirtan or pronounciation of bani , rehit but on that issue I have to say No that is not right. 

Those who are just learning i.e. at the start may take away that sikhi  is incomplete by itself from what they said and that is just wrong . Do yoga to strengthen your body or deepen your calm but don't diss Guru ji . Guru ji is app parmeshvar so one should not be so foolish to suggest that Yoga is what makes Gurbani better.

Yoga is union( union with Akal Purakh), Sikh bhagti is described as Raj Yoga because it is the uttam panth the highest path. Sewa and and simran are so powerful there are no words... but Guru ji has told us in Bani that bodily manipulations, austerities and the like will not get us to where we want to go , you have to have kirpa .

I watch the people and their comments  are linked mainly to the mantras i.e. Gurbani. Even my Brasilian BIL came to me and told me I have been learning your prayers in my yoga class can you explain what the translations are because I have a doubt. He had been taught Mool Mantar  , now he is not a very Godly person but he admitted he enjoyed naam japna, and the mool mantar. I say it's good that people are getting exposure to gurbani and then investigating further but respect and not putting Gurbani on a secondary level is important.

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25 minutes ago, JUSTAJATT said:

 

No I am saying that one who has performed for Guru ji at Harmandir Sahib has criteria they are supposedly judged on to be named Hazoori .

The early group were not clearly and yet somehow history shows that allowances which amounted to lowering of standards was done for them. 

A Hazoori raagi would have deeper knowledge than those guys so I could understand if they said something silly in unjaan state but a hazoori raagi never. If they want to claim it they have to also Honour Guru ji above everything else , simply.

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2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

No I am saying that one who has performed for Guru ji at Harmandir Sahib has criteria they are supposedly judged on to be named Hazoori .

The early group were not clearly and yet somehow history shows that allowances which amounted to lowering of standards was done for them. 

A Hazoori raagi would have deeper knowledge than those guys so I could understand if they said something silly in unjaan state but a hazoori raagi never. If they want to claim it they have to also Honour Guru ji above everything else , simply.

It seems that you are just convincing yourself with some reasons to hide your own inner weakness and insecurity. >>> to that say,>>Whatever it takes for you to keep your conscience clear!!!

I'm not going to waste my personal "UP" energies from recent morning nitnem, but all I can say is that I have learned to expose and confront my own weaknesses over the last few years. I'm getting better and better every day. Today I'm a better Sikh than yesterday and tomorrow morning, when I get up for nitnem, I want to be better than today. >>> So, I honestly have no desire to argue with your narrow minded arguments and your misinformed slating of yoga.

I'm lucky to have one or two high avastha gurmukh friends that have really helped straighten my dogtail(kuthay dee pooch) out.  One of them told me that I've got to make repeated efforts to improve, day by day and every day. Gurbani says that a dogtail can never be straightened which means you have to keep repeating and repeating the process every day. You straighten it out, but then it bends back again.   He said the key to working on my kuthay dee pooch is to first, stop CHASING the damned tail.   So,>>you know when you keep singing the same argument, time and time again about how bad flanna jatha is and how much beadbi this jatha does and that..>>>you gotta  stop all that>> cuz you are just singing the same song over again and again, like chasing the tail again and again. INSTEAD, you've gotta put energy into straightening the tail, because a short while later the damned thing bends back.

I hope you see what I'm saying. I don't mean no disrespect phenji but it's just that your understanding is misinformed and narrow minded because yoga is huge topic at all levels of perception.  Saying that, gurbani makes it clear that it's all a game of the mind, and whatever it takes for you to grab and control the mind to put it towards guru, then you should do it.   If Bhagat dhana could sit with a stone as centre, to put his mind on akaal purakh, then why can't us moorakhs put it on waheguru, using breath as centre???  >>well, we can. This is saas giraas and saas saas simran which are actually taken from Patanjali yoga and many references by Bhagat Kabir ji and Namdev are referencing raj/patanjali yoga. To understand that, i first had to understand why we had techniques like saas giraas and saas saas. This is how my real journey started and then the treasures that hide behind the veils, began to reveal themselves..  slowly and slowly, holleee hollee, one by one, the revelations came and lead me to take amrit. Therefore, I can never slate the gurmukh friends that helped guide me and all the varieties of Sikhs that inspired me. and Yes, a lot of chardikala jathas kirtan and many 3ho meditation videos were inspiring and are ingredients in the outcome of gurus blessing for me>>> which is probably why I get a little offended when people start slating any jatha as a whole.

Again, no offence and I'm not singling you out cuz you are quite intelligent and have very respectable views imo. I have learned and taken a lot of giaan from some of your posts. Us learning Sikhs have to continue this process of learning, re-learning and correcting ourselves with the help of others until our last breaths at anth-kaal. So lets make some effort for tomorrows amrit vela to keep increasing in power than todays.

 

Edited by JUSTAJATT

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5 minutes ago, JUSTAJATT said:

It seems that you are just convincing yourself with some reasons to hide your own inner weakness and insecurity. >>> to that say,>>Whatever it takes for you to keep your conscience clear!!!

I'm not going to waste my personal "UP" energies from recent morning nitnem, but all I can say is that I have learned to expose and confront my own weaknesses over the last few years. I'm getting better and better every day. Today I'm a better Sikh than yesterday and tomorrow morning, when I get up for nitnem, I want to be better than today. >>> So, I honestly have no desire to argue with your narrow minded arguments and your misinformed slating of yoga.

I'm lucky to have one or two high avastha gurmukh friends that have really helped straighten my dogtail(kuthay dee pooch) out.  One of them told me that I've got to make repeated efforts to improve, day by day and every day. Gurbani says that a dogtail can never be straightened which means you have to keep repeating and repeating the process every day. You straighten it out, but then it bends back again.   He said the key to working on my kuthay dee pooch is to first, stop CHASING the damned tail.   So,>>you know when you keep singing the same argument, time and time again about how bad flanna jatha is and how much beadbi this jatha does and that..>>>you gotta  stop all that>> cuz you are just singing the same song over again and again, like chasing the tail again and again. INSTEAD, you've gotta put energy into straightening the tail, because a short while later the damned thing bends back.

I hope you see what I'm saying. I don't mean no disrespect phenji but it's just that your understanding is misinformed and narrow minded because yoga is huge topic at all levels of perception.  Saying that, gurbani makes it clear that it's all a game of the mind, and whatever it takes for you to grab and control the mind to put it towards guru, then you should do it.   If Bhagat dhana could sit with a stone as centre, to put his mind on akaal purakh, then why can't us moorakhs put it on waheguru, using breath as centre???  >>well, we can. This is saas giraas and saas saas simran which are actually taken from Patanjali yoga and many references by Bhagat Kabir ji and Namdev are referencing raj/patanjali yoga. To understand that, i first had to understand why we had techniques like saas giraas and saas saas. This is how my real journey started and then the treasures that hide behind the veils, began to reveal themselves..  slowly and slowly, holleee hollee, one by one, the revelations came and lead me to take amrit. Therefore, I can never slate the gurmukh friends that helped guide me and all the varieties of Sikhs that inspired me. and Yes, a lot of chardikala jathas kirtan and many 3ho meditation videos were inspiring and are ingredients in the outcome of gurus blessings for me>>> which is probably why I get a little offended when people start slating any jatha as a whole.

look I didn't slate the chardikala jatha as a whole even just gave an example where they should have been a bit deeper thinking about the implications of what they said . In the end we all strive for that true yoga but the path is individual , Gurbani is enough in itself to open and transform one's inner life but I agree that some may need the support to their journey. Saas Giraas is there to imbed naam into our subconcious mind so it becomes constant unthought simran  di taar running through our lives. Bhagat Dhanna's innocent love for 'Thakur' Akal Purakh was rewarded , that means our love should be full flow and innocent /niskaam . You are lucky that you had such blessings of inspiring sangat but the hand that gave is the hand you now hold , stay in chardikala . For me it is hard to hear Guru ji's status being pushed down or eliminated because of his apaar kirpa in my life , through my darkest days.  For me all gursikhs are my family don't care for labels or politics.

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Justajatt, believe there will be a spiritual stage in your life where you will understand the complexity of such issues. As you stated that you are new into this, so it will take time for you to learn thru experience. Buckle up as it's a long journey- some come and go as their karma took them off track. Very few stay on the sikhi path. As gurbani says the path to walk on is sharp edge of kirpan which is thinner than human hair.

have patience brother!

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Another person I'd like to nominate: Bhai Balpreet Singh Ji of World Sikh Organization in Canada. He is legal advocate for WSO and has successfully won the case for kirpans in Quebec, the boys patka case playing soccer, several turban case she including mine and many other Sikh issues nearly all at the national level. He has done so much for awareness of Sikhi!! He regularly speaks at Sikh Kid camps and online and regularly advises Canadian parlaiment.

 

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