singhbj singh

Emotional journey of an ex-army Black American into Sikhi

48 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, kcmidlands said:

The full video is up on youtube.

 

Irrelevant of whether you agree or disagree it's always worth listening to an "outsiders" experience of Sikhi and what draw's them to it and also, what brings people back into Sikhi.

I think this is the couple that Bhai Sukha Singh talks about in the video about the power of the living Guru and BHai Baljit SIngh ji also

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Tegh Singh & Rusveer Kaur's life reminded me of the song 

It's a Long Road - Dan Hill (Theme from First Blood '1985)

Waheguru ji mehar karan tuhadi family te

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4 minutes ago, singhbj singh said:

Tegh Singh & Rusveer Kaur's life reminded me of the song 

It's a Long Road - Dan Hill (Theme from First Blood '1985)

Waheguru ji mehar karan tuhadi family te

aint no doubt Waheguru reached in and pulled them out .... What to take out of this :

1. need to get rid of the illiterate bigots in gurdwarey by making it normal for non-punjabi speaking people to have support and friendly faces to deal with by encouraging the youth to watch out for them and engage .

2. Each gurdwara across the planet needs a strategy and resources to support newcomers

3. we need support for domestic violence sufferers and posters for helplines etc in the loos and foyers of gurdwarey in multiple languages.

4. in-house counselling if possible 

5. Gursikhs manning sikhi drop-ins at the gurdwara so people can get their questions answered in a non-judgemental way.

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On 3/13/2017 at 5:10 PM, GuestSingh said:

Another Black hipster adopting Sikhi because he has no culture of his own? It seems to be a recent trend with Kaleh and Goreh in the US. A lot of outsiders are jumping on it as if it is in fashion. My question is why?

Many seem to say the same thing i.e. 'I heard Prayer/Kirtan and started crying' or 'I could not bear to turn away from my Guru, heart aches, cries etc...'. OK. Well, how can you do that when you do not have a Sikh background and do not understand the meaning of each shabad? They are not translated to English in Gurdware and it can up to a lifetime for the purest and devout of Sikhs to comprehend such wisdom, unless you happen to be fluent in around a dozen Asian languages. The whole thing looks to be somewhat scripted to me.

I understand they are searching for something, inner-peace, and that is fair enough as everyone is on a 'journey' but why talk in cliches? Who are you trying to impress? Are you being paid?

Basics of Sikhi, are you trying to convert outsiders through 'camps'? Leave that to the Muslims and Christians. A lot of parchaaraks today seem to be treating Sikhi as salesmanship. Have they forgot the concept of Parchaar? Punjabis do not need to appease the Goreh/West by forcing Sikhi on others. If they want to know, they can use the internet, libraries etc. Travel and living costs from donations to fund such trips could be used for important causes. Do not put religion before humanity. I would be interested to know the ratio of such balances within Sikh educational charities.

To finish on the OP, what I also do not understand and what really annoys me is why outsiders use the names of the Gurus i.e. 'Tegh' or the Chaar Sahibzaade etc. It displays pretentiousness and ego as well as a clear lack of respect and understanding of their legacy.

The name of a person can you tell you a lot about them. In the case with these individuals, they just think it is 'cool'. Who are these nobodies compared to our Gurus and great Gursikhs?

I am not trying to attack anyone. I am just sad about the state of Sikhi today.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh.

You sound like a <banned word filter activated>.I hope you dont make anymore posts here this site already has enough idiots. I also gotta question for the member Preeet and that is why are u on this forum pretending to be a sikh its painfully obvious to everyone here that your a hindu why dont you just admit it? Its alright you dont have to be a sikh to post on this forum and you dont have to hide your religion instead you should be proud of it but this pretending to be a sikh stuff is really childish everyone can see right through you. If you u want to convert to sikhi than that is fine too but please leave all your old baggage behind with you because it is really stupid and annoying

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On 14/03/2017 at 0:38 AM, jkvlondon said:

err who are you to decide who is worthy of sikhi ?

...

Those who are being brought to sikhi is through Waheguru ji's hukham ...accept it

Jasbir Kaur Vilashca? You do not sound like a Amritdhari Gursikh at all.

Not everyone because not everything is Hukam. If Wahehguru is without fear and hate then why there is so war and poverty in the world? Is the answer not misused free will of man and woman?

I know my opinion and outlook will be lost on some of you but I prefer to call it as I see it and I do not like PC. I have seen these converts that masquerade as 'Sikhs' as if it is the latest craze but I am wise to their lies and I can see right trough them. These idiots do not fool me. Sikhi is not a game. Don't believe me? Google '3HO fake Sikh white cult'.

By the way, I accept only what is written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, not what a nobody tells me over the internet.

On 14/03/2017 at 2:25 AM, genie said:

You maybe  HP in disguise of a Sikh

...

I read somewhere on another forum once that Guru Nanak dev ji once said if you live and spread the goodness of sikhi you will be saved in the after life with the lords grace.

The internet is full of lies. How do you know whether stories like these are created or exaggerated just to emphasise a point? Should a Sikh not refer only to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji for the truth, not a Sikh forum?

Now I am maybe a Hindu in the eyes of people like you and others on this forum because you all do not agree with what I said? How do I know all of you are are Sikhs. You could all be Hindus.

On 14/03/2017 at 7:01 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Note to Mods: delete this racist nonsense. We got a million problems and we don't want racism to influence the lost people within our Panth. To be honest when this guy in the video mentioned that nobody considering him a Sikh, I honestly noticed the dumalla before his skin color, (a turban is more visible than the skin color if you ask me).

What racism? Are you only saying that because he is black? If he was white then my opinion would remain the same, as mentioned in the OP if you read it properly. Have you not heard of 3HO? I see the same with Punjabis too. Some turn to Sikhi but how many of them are truly and purely Sikh? Not all Punjabis are Sikhs and not all Sikhs are Sikhs. Is that racism too?

I have seen and heard people like you who love to accuse someone of it when a different skin colour is present before making yourself look good by saying you noticed the colour of his turban first. As if I am going to fall for that bakvaas. Do you have your own mind or do you just follow the crowd?

18 hours ago, ThunderousDominator said:

You sound like a <banned word filter activated>.I hope you dont make anymore posts here this site already has enough idiots.

Are these people only idiots because their opinion is different from your opinion? Ask yourself who is the real idiots here.

I am entitled to post here just as much as you and I will continue to do so, unfortunately for you and your forum buddies, because I am on the path of Sikhi and I care about the problems against it.

Edited by GuestSingh

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6 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:

What racism? Are you only saying that because he is black? If he was white then my opinion would remain the same, as mentioned in the OP if you read it properly. Have you not heard of 3HO? I see the same with Punjabis too. Some turn to Sikhi but how many of them are truly and purely Sikh? Not all Punjabis are Sikhs and not all Sikhs are Sikhs. Is that racism too?

I have seen and heard people like you who love to accuse someone of it when a different skin colour is present before making yourself look good by saying you noticed the colour of his turban first. As if I am going to fall for that bakvaas. Do you have your own mind or do you just follow the crowd?

I don't endorse racism, but if you want to find my biggest chance of racism I recommend this thread: 

I don't like black people, or white people, or Hispanics, or Orientals, or Subcontinentals. I can be referenced from a previous thread that I don't like labels. Honestly I wasn't lying when I noticed the dumalla before his skin color; if he had an accent he could claim he's some dark-skinned Subcontinental for all I care.

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6 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:

Not everyone because not everything is Hukam. If Wahehguru is without fear and hate then why there is so war and poverty in the world? Is the answer not misused free will of man and woman?

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I mean everything isn't Hukam at all...oh wait...

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

 

Why do you keep using another users (?) real name? for someone that's harping on about being so wise you seem to think internet safety is a really funny thing.

oh and another thing since you seem to be oh so wise about Sikhism. 

 

Quote

To finish on the OP, what I also do not understand and what really annoys me is why outsiders use the names of the Gurus i.e. 'Tegh' or the Chaar Sahibzaade etc. It displays pretentiousness and ego as well as a clear lack of respect and understanding of their legacy.

"outsiders" lmao, So please tell me how your entire family all came from Sikhs. How right down to the first cells they were always Sikh, fun fact for you the use of these names was never exclusively for the Sahibzadhe. At one time in your family's life you were outsiders, its ironic the person you're spewing so much hatred for probably felt love and respect for Gurbani you have yet to experience. Want to know an even funnier story, people who cried and were touched by Gurbani include Bhai Lehna Ji and Bhai Amardas Ji. Where did they end up? oh yes on the Gurgaddi. Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji also felt touched by Gurbani and this was all on the first meeting/hearing of Gurbani. None of them had the "knowledge" you keep harping on about and all of them ended up being Brahmgyanis and in the case of Bhai Lehna Ji and Bhai Amardas Ji, became Satguru Nanak. So please tell me more about how its impossible to be touched by all this Gurbani. All you've done so far is shown you don't have the same knowledge you want others to have and haven't made the smallest attempt to go and learn about it.

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1 hour ago, GuestSingh said:

Jasbir Kaur Vilashca? You do not sound like a Amritdhari Gursikh at all.

don't worry you could spell it ...as you can see it doesn't give you a clue who I am...much like your name 

Quote

Not everyone because not everything is Hukam. If Wahehguru is without fear and hate then why there is so war and poverty in the world? Is the answer not misused free will of man and woman?

I know my opinion and outlook will be lost on some of you but I prefer to call it as I see it and I do not like PC. I have seen these converts that masquerade as 'Sikhs' as if it is the latest craze but I am wise to their lies and I can see right trough them. These idiots do not fool me. Sikhi is not a game. Don't believe me? Google '3HO fake Sikh white cult'.

Japji sahib not your thing huh? the reason why wars,people starve, predjudice,  happen is Human egoes drunk on maya and let loose with the 5 chor running the show . I don't think even free will is a factor any more it is purely animalistic. See what Guru ji is saving you from ...

I think struggling to be accepted as a sikh for over 8 years eliminates that argument as despite blatant to the face racism and slurs they both perservered . They have zero to do with 3HO so that's not even a factor here.

Quote

By the way, I accept only what is written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, not what a nobody tells me over the internet.

well you better read on ...

Quote

The internet is full of lies. How do you know whether stories like these are created or exaggerated just to emphasise a point? Should a Sikh not refer only to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji for the truth, not a Sikh forum?

 

this couple I had heard about in a gupt form in 2 other katha vichar videos by two seperate Parchaariks who witnessed/took  the gurvaak  at the camp that inspired them to come home to sikhi . The fact escapes you that it was a HUKHAM directly by Guru ji for them to become full sikhs (I suspect you didn't watch the full video) 

Dhanaasree mehlaa 5. ang 678.

 

jin tum bhayjay tineh bulaa-ay sukh sahj saytee ghar aa-o.

(The One who sent you, has now recalled you; return to your home now in peace and pleasure. )

 

anad mangal gun gaa-o sahj Dhun nihchal raaj kamaa-o.

(In bliss and ecstasy, sing His Glorious Praises; by this celestial tune, you shall acquire your everlasting kingdom.) ||1||

 

tum ghar aavhu mayray meet.

(Come back to your home, O my friend. )

 

tumray dokhee har aap nivaaray apdaa bha-ee biteet. rahaa-o.

(The Lord Himself has eliminated your enemies, and your misfortunes are past.) ||Pause||

 

pargat keenay parabh karnayhaaray naasan bhaajan thaakay.

(God, the Creator Lord, has glorified you, and your running and rushing around has ended)

 

ghar mangal vaajeh nit vaajay apunai khasam nivaajay

(In your home, there is rejoicing; the musical instruments continually play, and your Husband Lord has exalted you)

 

asthir rahhu dolahu mat kabhoo gur kai bachan aDhaar

(Remain firm and steady, and do not ever waver; take the Guru`s Word as your Support.)

 

jai jai kaar sagal bhoo mandal mukh oojal darbaar

(You shall be applauded and congratulated all over the world, and your face shall be radiant in the Court of the Lord)

 

jin kay jee-a tinai hee fayray aapay bha-i-aa sahaa-ee.

(All beings belong to Him; He Himself transforms them, and He Himself becomes their help and support)

 

achraj kee-aa karnaihaarai naanak sach vadi-aa-ee.

(The Creator Lord has worked a wondrous miracle; O Nanak, His glorious greatness is true)

 

Quote

What racism? Are you only saying that because he is black? If he was white then my opinion would remain the same, as mentioned in the OP if you read it properly. Have you not heard of 3HO? I see the same with Punjabis too. Some turn to Sikhi but how many of them are truly and purely Sikh? Not all Punjabis are Sikhs and not all Sikhs are Sikhs. Is that racism too?

because you specifically differentiated on his colouring and seperate cultural roots

and because in Gurbani's court you are guilty of discriminating on irrelevant basis

Everyone says that there are four castes,

 four social classes.
They all emanate from the drop of God's
 Seed. || 2 ||

The entire universe is made of the same clay.
The Potter has shaped it into all sorts of vessels. || 3 ||


The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body.
Who can say which is less, and which is more? || 4 ||

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ang 1127, 1128

And again:

First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power,

He made all mortal beings. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up.
So who is good, and who is bad? || 1 ||

O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt.

The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation,

totally pervading and permeating all places. || 1|| Pause ||

The clay is the same, but the Fashioner has fashioned it in various ways.

There is nothing wrong with the pot of clay,
There is nothing wrong with the Potter. || 2 ||

The One True Lord abides in all; by His making, everything is made.

Whoever follows His Message knows the One Lord.
He alone is said to be the Lord's slave. || 3 ||

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, ang 1349, 1350

Quote

Are these people only idiots because their opinion is different from your opinion? Ask yourself who is the real idiots here.

I am entitled to post here just as much as you and I will continue to do so, unfortunately for you and your forum buddies, because I am on the path of Sikhi and I care about the problems against it.

you ARE entitled to write what you feel but you have no right to criticise Sikh bandhap without cause just because of you inadequate embodiment of gurbani principles of manas ka ek jaat.

Edited by jkvlondon

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23 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I don't endorse racism, but if you want to find my biggest chance of racism I recommend this thread: 

I don't like black people, or white people, or Hispanics, or Orientals, or Subcontinentals. I can be referenced from a previous thread that I don't like labels. Honestly I wasn't lying when I noticed the dumalla before his skin color; if he had an accent he could claim he's some dark-skinned Subcontinental for all I care.

Fair enough but you have now confused me.

You say my post is racist and that you don't endorse racism, yet you call white people 'crackers' and then say you don't like blacks, whites, Hispanics, Orientals or subcontinentals. That makes you a hypocrite.

However, I agree with what you and some others said in the quoted thread. I think of white people i.e. Anglos, as the devil. Once they see something they like, they feel it belongs to them and they must have it. The fact is they are shameless thieves. They have even began to delude themselves that they created it. One example is British Museums possessing many Sikh artifacts as well as the Koh-i-noor diamond. Another is Americans trying to copyright Yoga. Can you believe that?

Theft aside, I hold them responsible for much of the evil in the world today. They say: "Where the white man goes, evil follows". I believe it to be true.

3HO are nothing more than a farcical cult who have been brainwashed by a corrupt yogi and distorted Sikhi to an extent that is not Sikhi at all. These jokers masquerade as Sikhs and pretend to act holy and pure. In reality, they dance on Gurbani and to Bhangra, practice Hindu rituals and conduct same-sex marriages. They even display images of the Gurus with Christianity. As I'm sure you and many others on this forum know, that is just the tip of the iceberg. They are weird and beyond help. 3HO are not Sikh.

23 hours ago, Kira said:

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I mean everything isn't Hukam at all...oh wait...

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

 

Why do you keep using another users (?) real name? for someone that's harping on about being so wise you seem to think internet safety is a really funny thing.

oh and another thing since you seem to be oh so wise about Sikhism. 

 

"outsiders" lmao, So please tell me how your entire family all came from Sikhs. How right down to the first cells they were always Sikh, fun fact for you the use of these names was never exclusively for the Sahibzadhe. At one time in your family's life you were outsiders, its ironic the person you're spewing so much hatred for probably felt love and respect for Gurbani you have yet to experience. Want to know an even funnier story, people who cried and were touched by Gurbani include Bhai Lehna Ji and Bhai Amardas Ji. Where did they end up? oh yes on the Gurgaddi. Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji also felt touched by Gurbani and this was all on the first meeting/hearing of Gurbani. None of them had the "knowledge" you keep harping on about and all of them ended up being Brahmgyanis and in the case of Bhai Lehna Ji and Bhai Amardas Ji, became Satguru Nanak. So please tell me more about how its impossible to be touched by all this Gurbani. All you've done so far is shown you don't have the same knowledge you want others to have and haven't made the smallest attempt to go and learn about it.

I am honest enough to admit I have not read much of Gurbani and there is a lot more I must learn and understand but you seem to know more about it so rather than dump a shabad of the Guru in your post just to prove your point, why not provide me with a translation of it? Tell me what each word means and explain it, without referencing the Sri Guru Granth Sahib online? You posted neither a translation nor discussion of it so I assume you already know it and can do this with ease.

My point about names was that outsiders... sorry my PC friend, I mean 'non-Punjabi's should respect and understand the meaning of them. What would be your reaction if you met a non-Punjabi Sikh one day and asked their name and they said 'Gobind Singh', 'Bibi Bhani' or 'Guru Nanak Singh'? You may laugh at this but you should understand that is being misused for personal greed and benefit with no understanding it. How many people take Amrit yet don't change their bad habits? I think it is only a matter of time. Would you find it funny and say 'lmao'? After all, we do live in Kaljug, which is, also, referenced in numerous shabads. Could you post, translate and discuss them too, without external reference?

Finally, what on earth are you talking about when you say I "keep using the real name of another person"? Where have I done that? Who else is called "GuestSingh" here? I was not aware that was a real name but where have I kept using it? This is my first profile on this forum.

21 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

Japji sahib not your thing huh? the reason why wars,people starve, predjudice,  happen is Human egoes drunk on maya and let loose with the 5 chor running the show . I don't think even free will is a factor any more it is purely animalistic. See what Guru ji is saving you from ...

this couple I had heard about in a gupt form in 2 other katha vichar videos by two seperate Parchaariks who witnessed/took  the gurvaak  at the camp that inspired them to come home to sikhi . The fact escapes you that it was a HUKHAM directly by Guru ji for them to become full sikhs (I suspect you didn't watch the full video) 

 

I didn't watch the full video and I don't intend to do so either because I do not care about their story, in the same way the wife does not seem to care about her heritage and forgetting where she comes from. I wonder if she would still have married him if neither practiced Sikhi? I will never know.

Is free will not just a misused attachment of the 5 chor? By misuse I mean, channeling kaam into pyaar for others, krodh into bir rass, lobh to langar, moh to love for Waheguru and Ego to Seva. After all, no person can have both them and a connection to Waheguru.

I know the 5 thieves are different and the opposite of Sikhi principles but a comparison shows me some similarity.

because you specifically differentiated on his colouring and seperate cultural roots

and because in Gurbani's court you are guilty of discriminating on irrelevant basis

Everyone says that there are four castes,

 four social classes.
They all emanate from the drop of God's
 Seed. || 2 ||

The entire universe is made of the same clay.
The Potter has shaped it into all sorts of vessels. || 3 ||


The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body.
Who can say which is less, and which is more? || 4 ||

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji ang 1127, 1128

And again:

First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power,

He made all mortal beings. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up.
So who is good, and who is bad? || 1 ||

O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt.

The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation,

totally pervading and permeating all places. || 1|| Pause ||

The clay is the same, but the Fashioner has fashioned it in various ways.

There is nothing wrong with the pot of clay,
There is nothing wrong with the Potter. || 2 ||

The One True Lord abides in all; by His making, everything is made.

Whoever follows His Message knows the One Lord.
He alone is said to be the Lord's slave. || 3 ||

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, ang 1349, 1350

Yes the four castes refer to the four classes of Hindu society: Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras, not colour. I wonder how many Sikhs, during the time of the Gurus, would have seen whites, blacks, Orientals, Hispanics, Native Americans, Aboriginals etc? I know Guru Gobind Singh ji was treated by a European for a wound during his attempted assassination but it makes you think. People mistakenly use colour as context.

My OP was actually about people misusing Sikhi today. If you had bothered to read my second post then you would know that I feel the same about whites and Punjabis.

To make it clear to you and others, I don't mind non-Punjabis practicing Sikhi so as long as they do so with sincerity. I wouldn't be bothered if I saw an African or Asian practicing it if they were searching for Waheguru and finding peace. I am just wary of Westerners (3HO, British, Americans, Europeans, commercialised jathe etc.) whose minds are corrupt and portray a fake image of looking and acting 'holy' or trying to be 'different' or 'mysterious' or treating Sikhi as something 'cool/funky'. That is what annoys me.

Corruption and evil are everywhere but I believe there are more people outside the West who are more pure, like those who have nothing, live in poverty/war/dictatorships yet practice the faith. You cannot trust anyone but I have more time for those people.

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Just saw the first half of the vid (Tegh Singh's section). I thought it was quite inspiring myself. It was refreshing to see an American not blindly following some twisted notion of patriotism and actually questioning the morality of the wars Bush and Blair started. 

 

It was also very interesting to see mention of the psychological effects of finding out you had been lied to about your mission as a soldier. 

 

Edited by dallysingh101
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21 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Just saw the first half of the vid (Tegh Singh's section). I thought it was quite inspiring myself. It was refreshing to see an American not blindly following some twisted notion of patriotism and actually questioning the morality of the wars Bush and Blair started.

What about the Kurds, you can compare their genocide to Sikhs randomingly getting picked-up from the streets and getting shot at during what the Indians call the militancy. If someone has any Daya they wouldn't once sympathize with Saddam like you seem to be doing. Do you believe Saddam Hussein was right for killing innocent people, (non-revolutionary civilians)? The only reason isis was allowed to be created was because we let Muslims alone, when you let Muslims do what they want, even if it starts out liberal they become extremists. Look at the history of Iran, when they knew right from wrong they were allies with America: once the West let Iran free, they became an Islamic Theocracy, (first in the world for Shias), now Turkey is going in the same direction, the West is giving them freedom, and they are becoming Radical Muslims. It's the same fault Ranjit Singh did by not allowing Muslims to find some way to Vaheguru, and not saving them by teaching them Gurmat and because of his SJW behavior when it came for Punjab's destruction in 1947: Muslims were the majority and Hindus were the largest minority. (Also let's not forget these Muslims also caused the Crusades, conquered the birth place of Jesus, caused forced conversions throughout the world and killed many Sikhs in between all of that). 

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9 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

Fair enough but you have now confused me.

You say my post is racist and that you don't endorse racism, yet you call white people 'crackers' and then say you don't like blacks, whites, Hispanics, Orientals or subcontinentals. That makes you a hypocrite.

However, I agree with what you and some others said in the quoted thread. I think of white people i.e. Anglos, as the devil. Once they see something they like, they feel it belongs to them and they must have it. The fact is they are shameless thieves. They have even began to delude themselves that they created it. One example is British Museums possessing many Sikh artifacts as well as the Koh-i-noor diamond. Another is Americans trying to copyright Yoga. Can you believe that?

Theft aside, I hold them responsible for much of the evil in the world today. They say: "Where the white man goes, evil follows". I believe it to be true.

3HO are nothing more than a farcical cult who have been brainwashed by a corrupt yogi and distorted Sikhi to an extent that is not Sikhi at all. These jokers masquerade as Sikhs and pretend to act holy and pure. In reality, they dance on Gurbani and to Bhangra, practice Hindu rituals and conduct same-sex marriages. They even display images of the Gurus with Christianity. As I'm sure you and many others on this forum know, that is just the tip of the iceberg. They are weird and beyond help. 3HO are not Sikh.

I am honest enough to admit I have not read much of Gurbani and there is a lot more I must learn and understand but you seem to know more about it so rather than dump a shabad of the Guru in your post just to prove your point, why not provide me with a translation of it? Tell me what each word means and explain it, without referencing the Sri Guru Granth Sahib online? You posted neither a translation nor discussion of it so I assume you already know it and can do this with ease.

My point about names was that outsiders... sorry my PC friend, I mean 'non-Punjabi's should respect and understand the meaning of them. What would be your reaction if you met a non-Punjabi Sikh one day and asked their name and they said 'Gobind Singh', 'Bibi Bhani' or 'Guru Nanak Singh'? You may laugh at this but you should understand that is being misused for personal greed and benefit with no understanding it. How many people take Amrit yet don't change their bad habits? I think it is only a matter of time. Would you find it funny and say 'lmao'? After all, we do live in Kaljug, which is, also, referenced in numerous shabads. Could you post, translate and discuss them too, without external reference?

Finally, what on earth are you talking about when you say I "keep using the real name of another person"? Where have I done that? Who else is called "GuestSingh" here? I was not aware that was a real name but where have I kept using it? This is my first profile on this forum.

Yes the four castes refer to the four classes of Hindu society: Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras, not colour. I wonder how many Sikhs, during the time of the Gurus, would have seen whites, blacks, Orientals, Hispanics, Native Americans, Aboriginals etc? I know Guru Gobind Singh ji was treated by a European for a wound during his attempted assassination but it makes you think. People mistakenly use colour as context.

My OP was actually about people misusing Sikhi today. If you had bothered to read my second post then you would know that I feel the same about whites and Punjabis.

To make it clear to you and others, I don't mind non-Punjabis practicing Sikhi so as long as they do so with sincerity. I wouldn't be bothered if I saw an African or Asian practicing it if they were searching for Waheguru and finding peace. I am just wary of Westerners (3HO, British, Americans, Europeans, commercialised jathe etc.) whose minds are corrupt and portray a fake image of looking and acting 'holy' or trying to be 'different' or 'mysterious' or treating Sikhi as something 'cool/funky'. That is what annoys me.

Corruption and evil are everywhere but I believe there are more people outside the West who are more pure, like those who have nothing, live in poverty/war/dictatorships yet practice the faith. You cannot trust anyone but I have more time for those people.

Bro , you need to reattach to Guru ji because something got lost in translation... Guru ji says ALL come from the ONE , the ONE creates the HUKHAM and creation bends to it . These people you are so scatching on actually went through the fire to reach Guru ji's charan  , she went through physical and sexual abuse thus left home instead of taking the coward's way out .

 Even though she went through it from SIKHs she never lost her connection with her Guru in her heart. It was 'sikhs' who destroyed her happiness, innocence and security and they did not try to support her in all those years before she met her husband. So I can understand her position , and she didn't just forget her Guru in worldly love , Guru ji gave her someone who could support through the pain of her past and get her to back to the path , they both had sanjog to become the Guru 's again . 

your analysis is tainted with lack of faith , understanding and truth.   

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17 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

I am honest enough to admit I have not read much of Gurbani and there is a lot more I must learn and understand but you seem to know more about it so rather than dump a shabad of the Guru in your post just to prove your point, why not provide me with a translation of it? Tell me what each word means and explain it, without referencing the Sri Guru Granth Sahib online? You posted neither a translation nor discussion of it so I assume you already know it and can do this with ease.

 

 

The line I posted is basic Punjabi. If you have trouble understanding that then please seek help with learning Punjabi. The Shabad is also from Japji Sahib, infact its the second pauri of Gurbani. So let me get this straight, you've come on here. Attacked just the newly converted Sikh because of his skin but also other members but you, yourself haven't even bothered reading the first 8 angs of your own Shabad Guru, you can't even understand basic Punjabi. But the bad guy here is someone who's had Gurbani resonate with them? Right sure I guess I'll sit down and break it up for you since its apparent you enjoy talking out of your backside. 

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
 

ਹੁਕਮੈ = Order of God (the order)

 ਅੰਦਰਿ = within

 ਸਭੁ ਕੋ = everything

 ਬਾਹਰਿ = outside

ਹੁਕਮ = order

 ਨ ਕੋਇ = no one.

Translates to Everything is within the order of God, there is nothing outside of it.  So please tell me how not everything is hukam.

 

Quote

My point about names was that outsiders... sorry my PC friend, I mean 'non-Punjabi's should respect and understand the meaning of them.

 

Quote

What would be your reaction if you met a non-Punjabi Sikh one day and asked their name and they said 'Gobind Singh', 'Bibi Bhani' or 'Guru Nanak Singh'? You may laugh at this but you should understand that is being misused for personal greed and benefit with no understanding it. 

PC? lmao. Right, because unlike you I've not exhibited a hatred of people who want to Sikhism, so i guess I must be PC. 

ehm what? lol. You don't even know that Guru is a title and not a name, the only time Guru is used in a name is with the conjunction of other words for example Gursevak (servant of the Guru). Bhani is also a very common name, and get this Gobind (the name) is also common in India. So I guess all those names loss all meaning. I wonder if you know where your name comes from? I'm willing to bet no because you already stated you know little Gurbani, yet you have the hypocrisy to sit there and lecture others over the fact that they don't understand the meaning of it. Unless of course you keep names like Harry Singh or maybe Happy Singh. If you knew your own history you'd know that Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's name was given to him by Guru Hargobind Ji after he fought in a war. The word "Tegh" means holder of the sword, plenty of Sikhs have shared that name, but of course all of them must have known the meanings and all of them must be masters of 4 languages.

If you bothered listening to his interview video you'd know he spent his time listening to Kirtan, listening to Katha and doing his own research, they'd listen to Sakhis and how the Sakhis inspired him. 

Quote

How many people take Amrit yet don't change their bad habits? I think it is only a matter of time. Would you find it funny and say 'lmao'?

So I guess we should all stop taking Amrit? How many Punjabis break Rehit? Why are you applying one standard to them and another to this man? its highly amusing how you know nothing about this guy but you'll hate on him because he's black. If it had been a Punjabi dude, you'd sit there and congratulate him, but because of his skin colour you can't even do that. You claim its out of love for Sikhi but you can't even be arsed to sit there and learn Gurbani, let alone Japji Sahib the most basic of all Bani, the first 8 angs of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. All you've shown is you're an intolerant individual who'll tell others to do something but wont do it himself.

Quote

fter all, we do live in Kaljug, which is, also, referenced in numerous shabads. Could you post, translate and discuss them too, without external reference?

Depends on the region of Gurbani picked. I can translate and discuss Shabads from Guru Sahib providing they don't contain Bhagat Banis as some of them are a bit harder for me to translate but yes I could I like to think as when I do read Gurbani (currently doing Sehaj Path) I can understand the basic linguistics behind it and going by and applying my own knowledge/level and thought provide a discussion on the basis of what was uttered.

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7 minutes ago, Kira said:

 

The line I posted is basic Punjabi. If you have trouble understanding that then please seek help with learning Punjabi. The Shabad is also from Japji Sahib, infact its the second pauri of Gurbani. So let me get this straight, you've come on here. Attacked just the newly converted Sikh because of his skin but also other members but you, yourself haven't even bothered reading the first 8 angs of your own Shabad Guru, you can't even understand basic Punjabi. But the bad guy here is someone who's had Gurbani resonate with them? Right sure I guess I'll sit down and break it up for you since its apparent you enjoy talking out of your backside. 

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਹੁਕਮ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
 

ਹੁਕਮੈ = Order of God (the order)

 ਅੰਦਰਿ = within

 ਸਭੁ ਕੋ = everything

 ਬਾਹਰਿ = outside

ਹੁਕਮ = order

 ਨ ਕੋਇ = no one.

Translates to Everything is within the order of God, there is nothing outside of it.  So please tell me how not everything is hukam.

 

 

PC? lmao. Right, because unlike you I've not exhibited a hatred of people who want to Sikhism, so i guess I must be PC. 

ehm what? lol. You don't even know that Guru is a title and not a name, the only time Guru is used in a name is with the conjunction of other words for example Gursevak (servant of the Guru). Bhani is also a very common name, and get this Gobind (the name) is also common in India. So I guess all those names loss all meaning. I wonder if you know where your name comes from? I'm willing to bet no because you already stated you know little Gurbani, yet you have the hypocrisy to sit there and lecture others over the fact that they don't understand the meaning of it. Unless of course you keep names like Harry Singh or maybe Happy Singh. If you knew your own history you'd know that Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's name was given to him by Guru Hargobind Ji after he fought in a war. The word "Tegh" means holder of the sword, plenty of Sikhs have shared that name, but of course all of them must have known the meanings and all of them must be masters of 4 languages.

If you bothered listening to his interview video you'd know he spent his time listening to Kirtan, listening to Katha and doing his own research, they'd listen to Sakhis and how the Sakhis inspired him. 

So I guess we should all stop taking Amrit? How many Punjabis break Rehit? Why are you applying one standard to them and another to this man? its highly amusing how you know nothing about this guy but you'll hate on him because he's black. If it had been a Punjabi dude, you'd sit there and congratulate him, but because of his skin colour you can't even do that. You claim its out of love for Sikhi but you can't even be arsed to sit there and learn Gurbani, let alone Japji Sahib the most basic of all Bani, the first 8 angs of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. All you've shown is you're an intolerant individual who'll tell others to do something but wont do it himself.

Depends on the region of Gurbani picked. I can translate and discuss Shabads from Guru Sahib providing they don't contain Bhagat Banis as some of them are a bit harder for me to translate but yes I could I like to think as when I do read Gurbani (currently doing Sehaj Path) I can understand the basic linguistics behind it and going by and applying my own knowledge/level and thought provide a discussion on the basis of what was uttered.

I didn't like him insulting our people, (as in Subcontinentals), he seemed a bit racist if you asked me because of him complaining that they didn't completely gravel to him at the Gurdwara? What was he seriously about? But Vaheguru kirpa on him, he seems like a nice guy with a sincere heart, it's good that Guru Sahib granted him grace; hopefully Vaheguru blesses the entire a world with Sikhi. Genuinely I think he's a good guy, (not one of them stereotypical Khalas), but he's got to be quite about the whole discrimination at the Gurdwara thing, other than that he's reasonable.

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8 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I didn't like him insulting our people, (as in Subcontinentals), he seemed a bit racist if you asked me because of him complaining that they didn't completely gravel to him at the Gurdwara? What was he seriously about? But Vaheguru kirpa on him, he seems like a nice guy with a sincere heart, it's good that Guru Sahib granted him grace; hopefully Vaheguru blesses the entire a world with Sikhi. Genuinely I think he's a good guy, (not one of them stereotypical Khalas), but he's got to be quite about the whole discrimination at the Gurdwara thing, other than that he's reasonable.

imo he had every right to complain. Again I don't know the full story, only what he shared but if its exactly accurate then yes they were really rude to him. We need to be welcoming of newcomers even if they are just visiting. I attended a sermon done in a Christian church (observed, didn't recite any hymns or stand etc, nor did I take any pledges, just really listened) and the people there were really friendly and warm. We need to mimic the same thing as its exactly how our Guru's court is and should be.

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4 minutes ago, Kira said:

imo he had every right to complain. Again I don't know the full story, only what he shared but if its exactly accurate then yes they were really rude to him. We need to be welcoming of newcomers even if they are just visiting. I attended a sermon done in a Christian church (observed, didn't recite any hymns or stand etc, nor did I take any pledges, just really listened) and the people there were really friendly and warm. We need to mimic the same thing as its exactly how our Guru's court is and should be.

Some people just don't talk much, (one of those people is me), it's not being rude, but for me I would do my best not to give anyone special treatment during the little bit I do Seva. (Some Sikhs could be shy for all we know.) The best Sikhs from what I see don't seem to talk way too much or get involved too much overtly in politics. 

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On 13/03/2017 at 9:27 PM, genie said:

I noticed alot of haters which include punjabi Christians. black Christians, south asian muslims and off course punjabi hindu's really hate it when blacks or whites convert to sikhi. Alot of these scumbags always leave negative comments on these kinda videos out of pure jealously and hatred for non-punjabis/non-indians embracing Sikhi.

Something I've noticed over the years when it comes to non-Sikh reactions to issues that affect us and that we have every right to highlight, is how there's an insidious desire to drown out our voice. It's a very dismissive attitude, and one that suggests we shouldn't speak up for ourselves. It happens quite regularly in the West, and i do wonder how that's come about. 

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27 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Some people just don't talk much, (one of those people is me), it's not being rude, but for me I would do my best not to give anyone special treatment during the little bit I do Seva. (Some Sikhs could be shy for all we know.) The best Sikhs from what I see don't seem to talk way too much or get involved too much overtly in politics. 

if he watch his full interview its alot more than that. They spoke to his wife just fine but ignored him, i.e reply to anything the wife asked but never to him. If he asked something the people would ignore him, but if his wife asked they'd talk just fine.

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4 hours ago, Kira said:

The line I posted is basic Punjabi. If you have trouble understanding that then please seek help with learning Punjabi. The Shabad is also from Japji Sahib, infact its the second pauri of Gurbani. So let me get this straight, you've come on here. Attacked just the newly converted Sikh because of his skin but also other members but you, yourself haven't even bothered reading the first 8 angs of your own Shabad Guru, you can't even understand basic Punjabi. But the bad guy here is someone who's had Gurbani resonate with them? Right sure I guess I'll sit down and break it up for you since its apparent you enjoy talking out of your backside.

How do you know whether I can or cannot understand that shabad or 'basic' Panjabi? I just asked you for a translation.

ਬੈਫਦੂਫ. ਮੈ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਆਊਂਦੀ ਹੈ. ਸਝਦਾ ? ਤੁ ਬਹੁਤ ਬਕਵਾਸ ਬੋਲਦਾ ਹੈ.

How silly do you feel now, kid?

Quote

You don't even know that Guru is a title and not a name, the only time Guru is used in a name is with the conjunction of other words for example Gursevak (servant of the Guru).

Are you sure about that?

http://www.3ho-kundalini-yoga.eu/rus/dejatelnost/festival-iogi-v-evrope/programma-festivalja/seminary-2012/guru-shabad-singh-de-santis-rome-italy/

http://www.spiritvoyage.com/artists/Guru-Shabad-Singh-Khalsa.aspx

http://www.nanakdevsingh.com/

I am sure there are more but these are what I have so far encountered. White people masquerading as Sikhs are comedy.

Yes 'Tegh Bahadur' can mean 'might of the sword' and 'Guru' is a title. It is actually compound word and roughly translates as 'one who brings lightness from darkness'. In other words, an enlightener or wise person or a teacher, just like all ten blessed messengers of Waheguru.

Now you have appear to shown yourself up twice in as many posts yet you have the cheek to say I enjoy talking rubbish. I don't know what to say but either way, that is some achievement. Shabash. Bahut acha.

Quote

So I guess we should all stop taking Amrit? How many Punjabis break Rehit? Why are you applying one standard to them and another to this man? its highly amusing how you know nothing about this guy but you'll hate on him because he's black. If it had been a Punjabi dude, you'd sit there and congratulate him, but because of his skin colour you can't even do that.

Ih ki majak hai?

I do not think you are very good at reading. If you were then you would have already seen the following:

21 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

To make it clear to you and others, I don't mind non-Punjabis practicing Sikhi so as long as they do so with sincerity. I wouldn't be bothered if I saw an African or Asian practicing it if they were searching for Waheguru and finding peace.

 

On 16/03/2017 at 1:19 AM, GuestSingh said:

Not all Punjabis are Sikhs and not all Sikhs are Sikhs.

 

Quote

Depends on the region of Gurbani picked. I can translate and discuss Shabads from Guru Sahib providing they don't contain Bhagat Banis as some of them are a bit harder for me to translate but yes I could I like to think as when I do read Gurbani (currently doing Sehaj Path) I can understand the basic linguistics behind it and going by and applying my own knowledge/level and thought provide a discussion on the basis of what was uttered.

Where are the shabads? I cannot see them.

As stated above, I do not think you are very good at reading. I asked you to post, translate and discuss shabads referencing Kaljug. Clearly you could not do this. Never mind.

I have nothing more to say to you.

Edited by GuestSingh

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3 hours ago, Kira said:

if he watch his full interview its alot more than that. They spoke to his wife just fine but ignored him, i.e reply to anything the wife asked but never to him. If he asked something the people would ignore him, but if his wife asked they'd talk just fine.

I don't know if they talked fine to her judging by the slurs and open hostility she received , but yes they talked to her .

Edited by jkvlondon

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chop chop...double post.

Edited by Kira

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2 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

How do you know whether I can or cannot understand that shabad or 'basic' Panjabi? I just asked you for a translation.

ਬੈਫਦੂਫ. ਮੈ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਆਊਂਦੀ ਹੈ. ਸਝਦਾ ? ਤੁ ਬਹੁਤ ਬਕਵਾਸ ਬੋਲਦਾ ਹੈ.

 

I don't feel silly at all since all because you said it yourself you couldn't understand the shabad and asked for a translation. So either you don't know Punjabi or you're extremely dim.  That Shabad is one of the easiest to translate, rather than accept that you were wrong you've decided to act like a smart <banned word filter activated>. Cute. A racist with a sense of humour.

Quote

Yes 'Tegh Bahadur' can mean 'might of the sword' and 'Guru' is a title. It is actually compound word and roughly translates as 'one who brings lightness from darkness'. In other words, an enlightener or wise person or a teacher, just like all ten blessed messengers of Waheguru.

Now you have appear to shown yourself up twice in as many posts yet you have the cheek to say I enjoy talking rubbish. I don't know what to say but either way, that is some achievement. Shabash. Bahut acha.

e. No they weren't messengers, They were Akaal Purkh's light, They were God themselves. Messengers are completely different. 

Congratulations though, you know what the correct English altered definition of a Guru is. Now please enlighten us on what the meaning of Guru is from Gurbani. 

Quote

Ih ki majak hai?

I do not think you are very good at reading. If you were then you would have already seen the following:

You had a go at the guy because he's black, no ifs or buts. Had it been a Punjabi guy you'd be sending him your congratulations and begging to lick his proverbial feet.

Quote

So let me get this straight. You hate white people masquerading as Sikhs but when your own "apni" do it, its fine, in fact your so called "apni" probably outnumber them. You decide to target this guy because of his race purely because of your own preconceived notions.  To try and refute my point (which once again you failed to do as this person isn't even affiliated with 3HO and if you bothered listening to his interview, I'm sure the concept of listening to someone other than your own ego is new to you, you'd know this guy did his own research and isn't affiliated with the organisation) about SIKHS keeping this name you post stuff from 3H0 and what some random Shiv yogi? I wonder if you knew that the name Singh isn't even unique to Sikhism, it was a very common surname before Guru Sahib gave it to Sikhs. 

3HO aren't even accepted by the mainstream Sikh populous, it's well known through a quick google search they are pariahs and most people don't accept their cancerous strain of whatever the hell they preach is. 

Sikhs don't own a copyright on any of those names, They've existed since well before Sikhism was established. Now then, please show me how this new convert is associated with any of these organisations.

Quote

Where are the shabads? I cannot see them.

As stated above, I do not think you are very good at reading. I asked you to post, translate and discuss shabads referencing Kaljug. Clearly you could not do this. Never mind.

There is entire angs on that topic, doing a search brought up 115 of them (based on word search alone), factor in other things like indirect mentions and you're looking well into the hundreds in terms of angs. If you honestly expect me to sit here and translate multiple angs because somehow you feel that trying to learn Gurbani yourself is a chore, yeah nice try. So far you've shown everyone here you're nothing more than a hypocrite who's crying about the very things he can't follow.  You couldn't even translate basic words from Punjabi that were in Gurbani, Yet suddenly other people must learn 4 languages to be even considered a Sikh in your own eyes,before Gurbani is allowed to make sense to them. You mocked people because of how Gurbani touched them (again if u did your own research you'd know there's a nice science explanation and a whole point of raags) and clearly consider them liars. I should be saying Well Done to you, way to show people that you know next to nothing about your own religion!

 

So once again, watch his interview and point me where you think he's behaving unsikh-like. This much is apparent you didn't even bother watching that and just jumped on a hate train. Good day to you, its apparent to anyone here you came on here purely to hate on someone based on stuff you decided was true without even looking at his interview. Further more you clearly know next to nothing about your own faith (one you zealously defend) and just enjoy being a total hypocrite about your own points. I suggest going back to the basics, learning/reading/reciting Japji sahib and moving on from there. That should illuminate many of your incredibly stupid opinions about other people you don't know and also about the faith you try to defend.  Being a total Hypocrite isn't good for anyone's soul.

 

Edited by Kira
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11 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Can you please define what 'black hipster' means.. Also you say 'another' suggesting a plethora of 'black hipster' taking amrit.. I haven't seen them.. Please share how you formed this opinion.

I define it as someone who follows or adopts something outside mainstream norms just to be different or look 'mysterious/cool'.

I don't know if they all take Amrit but I believe they think Sikhi is a fashion and confuse Punjabi and Western culture with Sikh culture.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk6OyQb-di2QHTa7WeWBjFQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1xqh5StJKY

However there was one who took Amrit and talking nonsense but I cannot find it on YouTube. I will try to look again and post if found.

The same applies to Goreh/white hipsters. They are easy to find on YouTube, online or on other Sikh forums.

11 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

So in this paragraph you have contradicted yourself.. Whilst you recognize or allude to the notion that no one can ever no the meaning of every shabad you seem to suggest that a black person should be held to a greater standard? 

Not at all.

My point was just that many 'Sikhs', including Punjabi's, can recall a shabad but provide only a generic or widely accepted translation. We should be careful of such translations as each word will have its own definition according to each person and may contain some bias to suit an agenda e.g. changing a definition and using a shabad as a weapon.

11 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

May then I ask to explain or rather define just one shabad. The most well-known of all 'ੴ' '' 

If you can provide a definition or actually a translation I will say no more.

Ik Oankar means one God, one creator, the 'doer' (kar) of everything in this world, even from each single atom. I am aware of its importance as it begins both the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as well as the Mool Mantar of Guru Nanak Dev ji.

11 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

There are many 'Punjabi hipsters' these days who just by the fact they come from a 'Sikh background' feel they need to be defenders of the faith, holier than though.. 

If I'm honest your obvious  provocations suggest their's something not quite genuine in your motivation to post on here

My intention was just to highlight a bit of darkness in which Sikhi is in now. If people are genuine and respectful then there is not much to argue about is there?

What you say about 'Punjabi hipsters' today is true. Not all are Sikh, as I have already mentioned more than once to certain posters, but this is something that is not going to change as Sikhi was created in the Punjab. I am not saying this means they are given the right to call themselves Sikh but as the world's fifth largest religion, it is bound to be a part of Punjabi identity. Some may be sincere, others just take pride and pick and choose what they wish to practice so they have the best of both worlds e.g. meat-eating mona Sikhs.

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