• advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
Guest kaurrrrr

Singhnis with Dastaar look ugly?

82 posts in this topic

Let's not make it Amrit n Keski discussion.

Key words are "Turban" n "Marriage"

Nowadays women wear turban as a fashion statement. They are unable to control their urge to look good so they remove hair. This is unacceptable as per punjabi version of Rehat Maryada.

So what's the point of wearing one & promoting hypocrisy.

Kindly read Gurbani verses regarding Bhekh

http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart15.htm

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Any Taksali will tell you a man can't take Amrit without his wife, let's not forget in 1978 and 1984 it wasn't Anti-Woman Amrit Sanchars people who gave their lives for Sikhi, but rather Taksalis and AKJs. They weren't busy with killing goats, but rather bringing enemies to justice.

I asked for historical sources that predate 1900 that give evidence of women taking amrit... not emotional blackmail pappu parchar. Even if what your saying is right then that would mean that in 1699 the Panj Pyare would only have been allowed to take amrit WITH their wives & when Mahraj themselves took amrit they would only have been allowed to do so WITH Mata Sundri Ji, Mata Jeeto Ji & Mata Sahib Deva Ji! There's eye witness written accounts of what happened that day... of how mahraj asked for 5 heads.. beheaded 5 heads then bought back to life then bowed down & took amrit from panj pyare themselves... no where does it mention women or that the men could only take amrit with their wife. 

If women took amrit & became 'kaurs' then why are all handwritten hukamname of Mata Sahib Deva signed Mata Sahib Devi & not kaur??

Naamdharis have written sources that say they were the first to give women amrit & did so around 1850 onwards.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do not need to worry about men considering you as ugly. On the contrary, I foresee many Singhs showing interest in you when you tie a dastar. I remember having a conversation with one of my friends when she first started wearing her dastar. I asked her, has they way men treat you changed much? Her response was along the lines of "I still get hit on as much as before. Men are just as flirtatious." The truth is, it doesnt make a difference to most people, except the people that hate women wearing dastars and the backward pind type. And those are two groups of people that really don't matter. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

According to maryada of Hazoor Sahib & Buddha Dal women were never given Khande Di Pahul. Hazoor Sahib/Buddha Dal has maintained the original maryada since time of 10ve patshah.

Hazoor Sahib as Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji left it is very different than how it is today.  Many false practices are taking place at Hazoor Sahib today.  Not to mention it's run by a RSS leader/member currently by the name of Amrik Singh Varsikar. 

Buddha Dal claim their lineage goes back to the Sixth Guru and is named after Baba Budha ji.  Amrit was first introduced by Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji as Charan Pahul.  Bhai Gurdas ji has wrote this history in his vaaran (vaar 1, pauri 23).  Bhai Gurdas ji writes Sikhs were given Charan Pahul by the Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji.  There was no stipulation on which gender can take Charan Pahul or who can't, clearly stated Sikhs.  Sixth Guru kept up the lineage of Charan Pahul as Amrit from the Punj Pyare started much later in 1699.  Since Buddha Dal wants to claim their lineage all the way back to the first war fought by Sikhs (which were at the time of Sixth Guru), this would mean Buddha Dal followed Charan Pahul from the Guru given to Sikhs, which includes males and females.  So the question for you to answer now is, what changed from Charan Pahul to Punj Pyare where women were never given Khande Di Pahul?  This is your claim, women were never given amrit from the Punj Pyare, so substantiate it and tells us what changed.  Provide references to where you find the answers and links, so you can be given a good lesson.  Little kids shouldn`t play with fire...

Quote

 Sikhi in the area of Hazoor Sahib is much stronger then the whole of Punjab (man made maryada land). Every Sikh in Nanded is mostly kesadhari & shasterdhari.

Well when you define Sikhi including manmat practices, then its very easily for the locals to follow that fake version of Sikhi.  It's like the other deras who allow their followers to drink and smoke.  All they have to do is make a false claim they are apart of the dera and like magic the dera followers are much stronger in their beliefs.  Kesh and shastar only help when the shackles of manmat practices are lifted off the head.  These poor people are enslaved by hindu rituals in the disguise of a Sikh identity. 

Quote

They have Prakash of Sri Dasam Granth

So what, they worship the very devta and devis Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji tells them not to worship in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji. 

 

Quote

& never had a problem where Mahants bought murtis into the Gurdwara like what happened in Panjab but still get accused of being followers of Hindu traditions.

Very confusing sentences, but I believe you are saying, the Hazoor Sahib leaders had no problem with mahants bringing murtis in Gurdwaras.  If so, then you don`t have the basic understanding of Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji.  Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji called the murti worshipper a murakh (completely blind) and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says, he break murtis.  The first and 10 Guru have made it crystal clear on not to allow murtis in Gurdwaras, which will basically turn into murti worship.  Mahant were bringing in murtis of devta and devis who were never to be worshipped.  So take your head out of the murti and maybe start reading Gurbani.  

Quote

Naamdharis were the first to start giving amrit to women around the late 1800's, there's written proof of this. Watch this video to get knowledge about why & when women were given amrit & when it all started;

If you are going to believe the claim of Naamdharis, then you also must believe Baba Ram Singh ji said he was the Guru of the Sikhs.  Here I will give you a better example of your illogical reasoning.  I was the first one to claim this poster, Mahakaal is a pandit terrorist who believes in cow worship.  I claimed it, now it must be true.  So mahakaal how does it feels to drink the urine of cows as you worship them.

Edited by Akalifauj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

If women took amrit & became 'kaurs' then why are all handwritten hukamname of Mata Sahib Deva signed Mata Sahib Devi & not kaur??

Naamdharis have written sources that say they were the first to give women amrit & did so around 1850 onwards.

 

In your previous post you say amrit from Punj Pyare was not given to women.  You believe this to be true.  The other side claims kaur was given to women who took amrit.  Since you think women were never given Amrit before naamdhari started around 1850, you can`t say Mata Sahib Kaur ji never took amrit because her handwritten hukamname never put kaur in her name.  How could she place Kaur in her name when you don`t even believe the initial event of taking Amrit by a women never happened, which would have allowed her to place kaur in her name.  Once you use the primary claim of no women was given amrit.  The secondary reason (hand written hukamname never had kaur in them) is nulled and can`t be a support for the primary reason.  

Guess what.......I`m just getting started with you.  This will be a good brain refreshing exercise.       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, how does a woman have a Guru if she does not take amrit? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

I asked for historical sources that predate 1900 that give evidence of women taking amrit... not emotional blackmail pappu parchar. Even if what your saying is right then that would mean that in 1699 the Panj Pyare would only have been allowed to take amrit WITH their wives & when Mahraj themselves took amrit they would only have been allowed to do so WITH Mata Sundri Ji, Mata Jeeto Ji & Mata Sahib Deva Ji! There's eye witness written accounts of what happened that day... of how mahraj asked for 5 heads.. beheaded 5 heads then bought back to life then bowed down & took amrit from panj pyare themselves... no where does it mention women or that the men could only take amrit with their wife. 

If women took amrit & became 'kaurs' then why are all handwritten hukamname of Mata Sahib Deva signed Mata Sahib Devi & not kaur??

Naamdharis have written sources that say they were the first to give women amrit & did so around 1850 onwards.

 

bro you still didn't respond to itihass of Guru Gobind SIngh ji giving amrit to Mai Bhago ji after she was wandering around in enlightened state beparwah of bodily state... was this true or not ...did she become his Bodyguard (for that she would definitely have to be amritdhari and rehitvaan gursikh) 

Bhat vahis mentioned amritdhari women by name 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Guest Maya said:

SSA,

Yes most men find dastaar wearing singhni's its not cos of the dastaar its more to do with the kesh. Its extremism because Guru's didnt say women should wear dastaar or not cut kesh. Dashmesh pitta created kaur for Sikh women to be princesses to beautify themselves and not created singhni's (lionesses). Singhni's are a new innovation created by the singh sabha movement in 18th-19th century to separate their women from hindus and muslims. Guru ji knew women and men are different in nature with different bodys for a different purpose. Men are naturally attracted to hairless beautiful women and women are attracted to masculine hairy chest hunter gather brave confident men.

The false narrative of equality was given by liberal cuck Sikhs by the british to create weak sikhs and singh sabha movement to stop their women being attractive to non-khalsa men.

There are 3 type of women who become sikh women who tend to be daastar wearers

1) Those who believe in brainwashed false concept of equality and are feminists

2) Those who are weak minded and bullied into wearing it and keeping kesh by peers, family,etc

3) Liberal types who wear dastaar but may continue to cut their hair, wear makeup, have tattoo's and partake in anti-sikh lifestyle and activities.

In the end you should always go back to the Guru and what did Sikh women at the time wear. Did they wear dastaar or did they wear modest clothes and chuni? You will find most wore chuni's

 

 

 

you are aptly named because your theories deeply steeped in it.

ALL sikhs have to keep their kesh this is rehit from Guru Nanak Dev ji's time which mayadhari log forget conveniently.

you categorise women like they are objects , they are human beings and they have just as much love and desire to look like their father as guys so don't diminish them this way . 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Hazoor Sahib as Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji left it is very different than how it is today.  Many false practices are taking place at Hazoor Sahib today.  Not to mention it's run by a RSS leader/member currently by the name of Amrik Singh Varsikar. 

Buddha Dal claim their lineage goes back to the Sixth Guru and is named after Baba Budha ji.  Amrit was first introduced by Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji as Charan Pahul.  Bhai Gurdas ji has wrote this history in his vaaran (vaar 1, pauri 23).  Bhai Gurdas ji writes Sikhs were given Charan Pahul by the Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji.  There was no stipulation on which gender can take Charan Pahul or who can't, clearly stated Sikhs.  Sixth Guru kept up the lineage of Charan Pahul as Amrit from the Punj Pyare started much later in 1699.  Since Buddha Dal wants to claim their lineage all the way back to the first war fought by Sikhs (which were at the time of Sixth Guru), this would mean Buddha Dal followed Charan Pahul from the Guru given to Sikhs, which includes males and females.  So the question for you to answer now is, what changed from Charan Pahul to Punj Pyare where women were never given Khande Di Pahul?  This is your claim, women were never given amrit from the Punj Pyare, so substantiate it and tells us what changed.  Provide references to where you find the answers and links, so you can be given a good lesson.  Little kids shouldn`t play with fire...

Well when you define Sikhi including manmat practices, then its very easily for the locals to follow that fake version of Sikhi.  It's like the other deras who allow their followers to drink and smoke.  All they have to do is make a false claim they are apart of the dera and like magic the dera followers are much stronger in their beliefs.  Kesh and shastar only help when the shackles of manmat practices are lifted off the head.  These poor people are enslaved by hindu rituals in the disguise of a Sikh identity. 

So what, they worship the very devta and devis Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji tells them not to worship in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji. 

 

Very confusing sentences, but I believe you are saying, the Hazoor Sahib leaders had no problem with mahants bringing murtis in Gurdwaras.  If so, then you don`t have the basic understanding of Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji.  Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji called the murti worshipper a murakh (completely blind) and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says, he break murtis.  The first and 10 Guru have made it crystal clear on not to allow murtis in Gurdwaras, which will basically turn into murti worship.  Mahant were bringing in murtis of devta and devis who were never to be worshipped.  So take your head out of the murti and maybe start reading Gurbani.  

If you are going to believe the claim of Naamdharis, then you also must believe Baba Ram Singh ji said he was the Guru of the Sikhs.  Here I will give you a better example of your illogical reasoning.  I was the first one to claim this poster, Mahakaal is a pandit terrorist who believes in cow worship.  I claimed it, now it must be true.  So mahakaal how does it feels to drink the urine of cows as you worship them.

 

1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

In your previous post you say amrit from Punj Pyare was not given to women.  You believe this to be true.  The other side claims kaur was given to women who took amrit.  Since you think women were never given Amrit before naamdhari started around 1850, you can`t say Mata Sahib Kaur ji never took amrit because her handwritten hukamname never put kaur in her name.  How could she place Kaur in her name when you don`t even believe the initial event of taking Amrit by a women never happened, which would have allowed her to place kaur in her name.  Once you use the primary claim of no women was given amrit.  The secondary reason (hand written hukamname never had kaur in them) is nulled and can`t be a support for the primary reason.  

Guess what.......I`m just getting started with you.  This will be a good brain refreshing exercise.       

Don't know if you've ever been to Hazur Sahib or not but I'm sure most would agree that if they were following manmat practices then there's no way that place would have so much shakti & kirpa there.

You seem to lack understanding of evidence collecting & in general don't seem capable of having an intellectual adult conversation but never the less...

In my first post I wrote 'according' to maryada of Hazur Sahib & Buddha Dal women were not given khanda da amrit (they are given kirpan amrit at Hazur Sahib & Buddha Dal) in 1699. In support of this stance both Hazur Sahib & Buddha Dal claim that there is no evidence from 1699 that suggests women took Khanda da amrit. To further support this they say that handwritten hukamname of Mata Sahib Deva shows that Mata signed them as Mata Sahib Devi... but why would she do this if she had taken amrit & become a 'Kaur' as is popular practice at other takhts. There's apparently also hukamname by Mata Sundri Ji where Kaur has not been used but I don't know if that is true or not as I haven't seen them myself. Separate to these but of interest is the fact that around 1850s the naamdharis make written claims that they are the first ones to give women Khanda Da amrit... if women were already being given khanda da amrit why would they make such a claim that would be easily blown out the water? If men can only take amrit with their wives then what are the names of the wives of the panj pyare who would have also taken amrit? Why do eyewitness accounts from that actual day in 1699 not mention women at all apart from Mata adding patasee into the amrit. Accounts from 1699 unanimously state mahraj asked for 5 heads.... not 5 couples heads.

also you misunderstood the murti comment. Before formation of SGPC mahants had installed murtis of Devi Devte into the parkarma at Harimandir Sahib... in the Punjab, yet in Hazur Sahib where they are supposedly meant to be Hindu worshippers this never happened. Point being, not just based on the murti incident but a general feeling seems to be that Hazur Sahib sikhs seem more dedicated & committed to following a maryada & rehit that they claim has been unchanged since time of 10ve patshah. We can't just sideline Hazur Sahib & dismiss it as manmat... it's 1 of the 5 takhts so all their claims & practices need to be examined & looked at seriously in an intellectual adult way. 

Edited by Mahakaal96
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Koi said:

So, how does a woman have a Guru if she does not take amrit? 

patta nahin maybe someone will pipe up and say the Brahmin thing that she has to serve her pati parmeshwar to earn the right to be reborn as a Singh ... I've heard similar before .

For those doubting use of Kaur for singhnees other than royals remember this :

Bibi Harsharan Kaur: The Final Shaheed of the Battle of Chamkaur In the battle of Chamkaur, Guru Gobind Singh jee and 40 starving Singhs battle the Mughal army. The battle which took place in Chamkaur's mud fort lasted 72 hours and saw the loss of many Mughal soldiers and also 36 of Guru Gobind Singh jee's companions along with the two Sahibzadas. Fighting an army of hundreds of thousands, Guru Gobind Singh jee gave an exhibition of his battle skills. Guru jee, following the orders of the Panth Khalsa (in the form of the Punj Pyaaray) left the fort along with Bhai Daya Singh, Bhai Maan Singh and one other Singh, after giving his clothes to Bhai Sangat Singh jee to wear. Only Bhai Sangat Singh and Bhai Sant Singh fought the battle to its end. They too were martyred. Seeing Guru jee's clothes on Bhai Sangat Singh, the Mughals were ecstatic and taking him to be Guru Gobind Singh, cut off his head and took it to Delhi. In every village it was announced that Guru Gobind Singh had been killed, "Look here at his chopped off head! His family is also finished. His two sons were killed in the battle and the two younger ones will also die abandoned. The revolution has been crushed. No one should go to the Chamkaur Fort. No one should cremate the dead Singhs." A tight cordon was put around the Fort. As the soldiers were going from village to village making their announcement, the people were retreating in terror into their homes. However, in village Khroond, a daughter of Guru Gobind Singh, Bibi Harsharan Kaur, asked for her mother's permission to peform the final rites for the Shaheeds. Her old mother replied, "it is total darkness outside and soldiers are everywhere around the fort, how will you even go near?" Hearing this, Kalgeedhar's lioness daughter replied with resolve "I will avoid the soldiers and perform the cremation, and if need be, I'll fight and die." The mother gave her courage and hugged her daughter and then explained the maryada to follow for the cremation. After performing Ardaas, Bibi Harsharan Kaur left for the Chamkaur Fort. The battlefield which saw iron smashing against iron, the bellows of elephants, the trotting of hooves and calls of "Kill! Capture!", was now totally silent and enveloped in complete darkness. In such a situation, the 16 year old girl Bibi Harsharan Kaur avoided the guards and arrived at the Fort. She saw that bodies were lying everywhere and distinguishing between Sikh and Mughal was very difficult. She still had faith and began to find arms with kaRas and torsos with kachheras and heads with long kesh. As she found a body, she would wipe the face of every shaheed. Both Sahibzadas and about 30 The stories of one's ancestors make the children good children. They accept what is pleasing to the Will of the True Guru, and act accordingly. ( Guru Granth Sahib Ji - 951) www.tuhitu.blogspot.com 16 of 154 shaheeds were found and then she began to collect wood. Fearing the approaching light of dawn, Bibi Harsharan Kaur worked very quickly and soon prepared a pyre. She then lit the fire. Seeing the rising flames, the guards were shocked and advanced towards the pyre. Bibi Harsharan Kaur was seen in the light of the flames sitting beside the pyre. She was quietly reciting Keertan Sohilaa. The guards were shocked and confused as to how a lone woman could come into the fort on such a dark night. The guards asked in a loud voice, "Who are you?!" Bibi jee: I am the daughter of Guru Gobind Singh Officer: What are you doing here? Bibi Jee: I am cremating my martyred brothers. Officer: Don't you know about the order that coming here is a crime? Bibi Jee: I know it. Officer: Then why have you disobeyed that order? Bibi Jee: The orders of a false king do not stand before the orders of the Sachay Patshah (True King) Officer: Meaning? Bibi Jee: Meaning that I have respect for the Singhs in my heart and with the Guru's grace I have done my duty. I don't care about your King's orders. Hearing such stern answers from Bibi Harsharan Kaur, the infuriated Mughal soldiers attempted to capture her and attacked. Bibi jee grabbed her kirpaan and fought back with determination. After killing and maiming many soldiers, Bibi Harsharan Kaur was injured and fell to the ground. The soldiers picked Bibi Harsharan Kaur up and threw her into the pyre, burning her alive. The next day the cordon around the Fort was lifted because it was clear that the Sahibzadas and most of the Shaheed Singhs had been cremated. The ancestors of the Phulkiaan family, Rama and Triloka, then cremated whichever Singhs remained. The story of Bibi Harsharan Kaur reached Guru Gobind Singh jee Mahaaraaj in Talvandee Sabo (Damdama Sahib). Upon hearing of her daughter's martyrdom, the old mother thanked Akaal Purakh. She said, "my daughter has proven herself worthy." The story of the cremation of the Chamkaur Shaheeds will forever serve as a glowing star of inspiration for all Singhs and Singhnees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

extract from DDT amrit sanskar maryada about suitability of Panj :

The Panj Pyare and the Granthi Singh are to all wear the same colour clothes and these should be from the following colours, saffron, blue or white. Their Kirpans are to be worn over their clothes, a Kamar-Kasa (waistband) is to be tied and a parna (scarf like cloth) is to be placed around their neck before entering the Darbar.  Their Gatra’s are not to be of leather.  The Pehradaar is to be a highly disciplined Sikh.  The five Singh’s are to humbly bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and stand up, the sixth Singh is to do the same and stand holding his hands together.  The Jathedar is to hold a large Sri Sahib in his right hand and do the Chaur Sahib Seva with his left. He is to question the sixth Singh – "Are you a highly disciplined Sikh? Do you keep the discipline of the 5 Kakkaars? Have you committed any of the four cardinal sins?  Do you recite the specified daily Nitnem prayers? If the Singh is married, he is to be asked if his spouse is living in accordance with the Rehat Maryada. The Singh is to face the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and reply humbly that with the Guru Jee’s blessing I am living according to the Rehat Maryada. I have not committed any cardinal sin and do recite the daily Nitnem prayers. I am physically complete, fit and healthy. He should say that he is forever erroneous due to the entrapments of the mind (showing his humility).  If he is married, then he should say that his wife is also a highly disciplined Sikh and lives by the Rehat Maryada. The Jathedar is to question all the six Singh’s individually, moving from his right to his left. After the questioning is over – if all are suitable, one Singh becomes the Granthi Singh and the rest join the Jathedar in becoming Panj Pyare.

 

if a bibi has no true amrit i.e. just gurti/kirpan da amrit then she is being held at lower rehit so then that would create problems for SInghs too because they cannot truthfully say she is amritdhari because the amrit should would have been subjected to only has the two first banian and six pauri of anand sahib maximum . It is clear from discussions that amrit can only be made by the panj which doesn't happen with kirpan-di -amrit that is just one singh , also gurti/kirpan-di-amrit is not considered sufficient for a child to be fully initiated into the panth so how can a woman be by this method ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Guest Gupt said:

Jasbir Kaur Villaschi,

Give it a rest.

Are you sure you are an Amritdhari Sikh? You certainly do not act nor speak like one. If you are, please consider visiting the Panj Pyare and asking for Pesh. Making violent threats and using potty-mouth language is not Gurmat. Samjh?

Also, I doubt your husband would do that as violence seeing as he is a Brazilian who knows very, very little about Sikhi itihaas.

You are not fooling anyone here.

Ok you may be just making new names for yourself and presenting silly things and personal attacks because your logic is awry ..Waheguru knows  I frankly do not care what you believe because it's arguments presented like yours and this :

Its extremism because Guru's didnt say women should wear dastaar or not cut kesh. Dashmesh pitta created kaur for Sikh women to be princesses to beautify themselves and not created singhni's (lionesses) "

which makes me sad for the panth  because it is foolishness such as this that drags people down . Why are you so blind that you cannot see strong rehitvaan females will bring up and encourage strong rehitvaan kids or maybe like Jathedar Gurmukh SIngh Musafir you want put back sikhi's progress too and want chanchal mat dollies who don't look after anything but preen themselves to make themselves objects for you to ogle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

 

Don't know if you've ever been to Hazur Sahib or not but I'm sure most would agree that if they were following manmat practices then there's no way that place would have so much shakti & kirpa there.

The kirpa and Shakti at Hazur Sahib is because of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and current Guru Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  If a place having so much Shakti and kirpa is your reason to say the place is not corrupt then how come in a previous post you say the following:

Quote

Sikhi in the area of Hazoor Sahib is much stronger then the whole of Punjab (man made maryada land).

When we know people who were blind have received the blessing of sight at Sri Harmandir Sahib.  So this mean the SGPC thieves and Badal using Sri Harmandir Sahib golak as his personal bank account and the fact SGPC maryada is wrong never takes place because there is so much Shakti and kirpa there.  Clearly logic and linking claim to reason was never taught to you.   

You're clown college teachings don't stand a chance to Gurmat.  I had a whole post written up but it got deleted by mistake.  Currently I don't have time to write it back up.  Don't go anywhere, there is a lot more to come.

Edited by Akalifauj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

The kirpa and Shakti at Hazur Sahib is because of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and current Guru Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.  If a place having so much Shakti and kirpa is your reason to say the place is not corrupt then how come in a previous post you say the following:

When we know people who were blind have received the blessing of sight at Sri Harmandir Sahib.  So this mean the SGPC thieves and Badal using Sri Harmandir Sahib golak as his personal bank account and the fact SGPC maryada is wrong never takes place because there is so much Shakti and kirpa there.  Clearly logic and linking claim to reason was never taught to you.   

You're clown college teachings don't stand a chance to Gurmat.  I had a whole post written up but it got deleted by mistake.  Currently I don't have time to write it back up.  Don't go anywhere, there is a lot more to come.

seems like you have selective vision that alters what is actually written so that it can be changed to fit a narrative that suits you... My post said '

  Quote

Sikhi in the area of Hazoor Sahib is much stronger then the whole of Punjab (man made maryada land). Obviously there is kirpa & shakti at Harimandir Sahib but can it be said that Panjab as a whole is flourishing when it come to sikhi? I think we all know the answer to that. Anyone who has even spent a few days in Nanded can see how dedicated to Guru & Sikhi people are there.... it's a world apart from Panjab.

you can come out with whatever you want... there's a reason why Hazur Sahib & Buddha Dal only give kirpan amrit to women, there's a reason Mata signed her handwritten hukamname using Sahib Devi & not Kaur, there's a reason why naamdharis claim they were the first to give women Khanda da amrit, theres a reason why eyewitness accounts from 1699, some even written by our enemies & there's no mention of women, there's a reason why there's apparently no written evidential source pre 1900 that proves women were given Khanda da amrit... you can conjur up whatever phantom narratives, emotional blackmail stories you want but please try & disprove the above points IF you can. Do that & I'll be a happy man... I'm looking for answers myself 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/03/2017 at 1:51 PM, jkvlondon said:

I will not tolerate beadbhi of our mahaan gursikhs  so you can choose to call me hot headed I don't care  but that was your warning the three times is coming close ...

And as for my husband he would have handed you your teeth by now for being disrespectful to Mahaan Gursikh Bibian of our panth. 

oh so now we know civil in BJ's vocab means meek and will not speak even when something bad is happening. Sure you aren't a closet pandit?

Yeah, but isnt your husband brazilian? What does he know about sikhi? And unless he is also amridhari convert, arent a lot of your extremist posts hypocritical e.g. did you have anand karaj? just sayin'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Mahakaal96 said:

You seem to lack understanding of evidence collecting & in general don't seem capable of having an intellectual adult conversation but never the less...

This is coming from a person who used said a reason didn't exist and then turned around and said a doesn't exist because the second reason which I already said didn't happens is the reason why the first claim never happened.  Also it's coming from a person who changed his position after being caught in his illerate assessment of Khande da Amrit, once charan pahul factual point was brought up and was given to both genders without any stipulation.  Here let me show you

Quote

In my first post I wrote 'according' to maryada of Hazur Sahib & Buddha Dal women were not given khanda da amrit (they are given kirpan amrit at Hazur Sahib & Buddha Dal) in 1699.

This is the first time you have mentioned kirpan amrit and never say it in your first post.  You do say the following:

Quote

According to maryada of Hazoor Sahib & Buddha Dal women were never given Khande Di Pahul.

Then later in the post you speak about amrit and say the following:

Quote

Naamdharis were the first to start giving amrit to women around the late 1800's, there's written proof of this.

If you had not changed your position, the above would have said women were first given kirpan amrit by Buddha dal and naamdhari were the first to give khande da amrit.  Let's say you made a mistake and was not clear on your post.  Okay, I'm giving you a chance to clear it up.  So one member quotes your post and poster jkvlondon gives you and example of Mata Bhago Kaur taking amrit.  Now here is a perfect chance for clown college poster mahakaal to clear up according to his beliefs, woman did take amrit but they took kirpan amrit.  But this never happens instead poster mahakaal writes the following:

Quote

Mata Bhago ji's final resting place & tap asthan is just south of Hazur Sahib... no one there refers to Mata Ji using 'Kaur'. 

In the same post poster mahakaal is asking for proof of women taking amrit when he himself want to change his position later to say women were given amrit through kirpan amrit.  Here it is:

Quote

Please provide historical written source that predates 1900 that gives evidence that women were given amrit

Now poster jkvlondon directly challenged you to present evidence to say Mata Bhao Kaur never took amrit.  You did not provide any comment saying women were given kirpan amrit.  Instead you say no women were given amrit.  Clown college has done a number on your ability use logic.  But let's go with your clown college taught rationality and say you made a mistake and forgot to mention women were given kirpan amrit.

In his last post before he is presented with charan pahul being given to all Sikhs regardless of gender he writes the following.  Again, I am giving him a lot to clear up his post and he had three post where he could have cleared up amrit was given to women through kirpan the amrit.  But in his last post he repeats what he said in the first two post.  Here it is:

Quote

If women took amrit & became 'kaurs' then why are all handwritten hukamname of Mata Sahib Deva signed Mata Sahib Devi & not kaur??

Naamdharis have written sources that say they were the first to give women amrit & did so around 1850 onwards.

Nope didn't clear it up here either.  Such a crucial point of how women were given amrit after being challenged by two poster and this clown college member couldn't remember to write women took amrit through kirpan amrit?  Poster mahakaal, I officially give you the title of Mr. Bigly Trump. Then to add damage to insult he makes up the following example of how Punj Pyare would have to take amrit with their wives as a previous poster said a spouse can't take amrit without their spouse.  Here it is:

Quote

I asked for historical sources that predate 1900 that give evidence of women taking amrit... not emotional blackmail pappu parchar. Even if what your saying is right then that would mean that in 1699 the Panj Pyare would only have been allowed to take amrit WITH their wives & when Mahraj themselves took amrit they would only have been allowed to do so WITH Mata Sundri Ji, Mata Jeeto Ji & Mata Sahib Deva Ji! There's eye witness written accounts of what happened that day... of how mahraj asked for 5 heads.. beheaded 5 heads then bought back to life then bowed down & took amrit from panj pyare themselves... no where does it mention women or that the men could only take amrit with their wife. 

Read the first line, again he ask for proof for women receiving amrit.  Amrit and women being or not being given amrit was clearly in his head, but his clown college brain couldn't pull out of his thick head, oooooo by the way women were given kirpan amrit.  This poster mahakaal clearly changed his position after I presented charan pahul was given to all Sikhs regardless of gender and in the same way.  I can't believe I am wasting my time on this thick headed child.  I told him don't play with fire, but Mr. Bigly Trump couldn't resist.  Chalo let's get into rest of his nonsense post. 

 

Quote

 In support of this stance both Hazur Sahib & Buddha Dal claim that there is no evidence from 1699 that suggests women took Khanda da amrit. To further support this they say that handwritten hukamname of Mata Sahib Deva shows that Mata signed them as Mata Sahib Devi... but why would she do this if she had taken amrit & become a 'Kaur' as is popular practice at other takhts.

Humpty dumpty claims there is no evidence of him sitting on the wall, so how could he fall off the wall?  I will provide evidence humpty dumpty sat on the wall after you provide what evidence Hazur Sahib Sikhs and Buddha dal have to say women never took khande da amrit. 

 

Quote

There's apparently also hukamname by Mata Sundri Ji where Kaur has not been used but I don't know if that is true or not as I haven't seen them myself.

Okay, finally some hint of honesty.  But I won't take the bait.  Provide evidence for Mata Sundri ji and Mata Sahib Kaur ji as well.  You made the claim and now it's time to present it.  And no humpty dumpty business.

 

Quote

Separate to these but of interest is the fact that around 1850s the naamdharis make written claims that they are the first ones to give women Khanda Da amrit... if women were already being given khanda da amrit why would they make such a claim that would be easily blown out the water?

For the same reason naamdhari claim Baba Ram Singh says he was the next Guru of the Sikhs.  baba Ram Singh ji never claimed he was the Guru, but naamdhari continue to do so.  Again stop with the humpty dumpty business or I will be forced to call you Mr. Bigly Trump from this day forward. 

 

Quote

 If men can only take amrit with their wives then what are the names of the wives of the panj pyare who would have also taken amrit? Why do eyewitness accounts from that actual day in 1699 not mention women at all apart from Mata adding patasee into the amrit. Accounts from 1699 unanimously state mahraj asked for 5 heads.... not 5 couples heads.

Okay, I'm drop the clown college business because I can see your problem.  I won't mention it here because it will only embarrass you even more than you have been.  The Punj Pyare took amrit and so did Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji from the Punj Pyare and then Sikhs from the sangat took amrit.  Which may or may not have included the Punj Pyare wives and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's wife.  DamDami Taksal Rehat Maryada was written after Amrit was given to the sangat.  Spouses receiving amrit together is instructions for Sikhs.  Just to stay consistent, provide evidence on 1699 Amrit was given and it was given in the way you want to promote it.   

Quote

also you misunderstood the murti comment. Before formation of SGPC mahants had installed murtis of Devi Devte into the parkarma at Harimandir Sahib... in the Punjab, yet in Hazur Sahib where they are supposedly meant to be Hindu worshippers this never happened.

I clearly said before addressing your murti comment, your sentence is not clear.  The murti got into Sri Harmandir Sahib because the British allowed it as the British had control of Sri Harmandir Sahib at the time.  British didn't really care about Hazur Sahib because the hub, main place where Sikhs got directions from was Sri Akal Takht Sahib.  Yet Hazur Sahib still was corrupted by the very same people who were set to protect it.     

In this whole mess of a post, you never answered my question, why would women not be given khande da amrit when they were equally given charan pahul?  Since you changed your position.  Here is another question, why are women given kirpan amrit and men are given khande da amrit according to your proof.  If you have not caught on yet, I want proof for all your claims.  You asked others for proof and now it's only fair to ask proof from you.  I will be waiting for this proof.  Don't run and hide.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

This is coming from a person who used said a reason didn't exist and then turned around and said a doesn't exist because the second reason which I already said didn't happens is the reason why the first claim never happened.  Also it's coming from a person who changed his position after being caught in his illerate assessment of Khande da Amrit, once charan pahul factual point was brought up and was given to both genders without any stipulation.  Here let me show you

This is the first time you have mentioned kirpan amrit and never say it in your first post.  You do say the following:

Then later in the post you speak about amrit and say the following:

If you had not changed your position, the above would have said women were first given kirpan amrit by Buddha dal and naamdhari were the first to give khande da amrit.  Let's say you made a mistake and was not clear on your post.  Okay, I'm giving you a chance to clear it up.  So one member quotes your post and poster jkvlondon gives you and example of Mata Bhago Kaur taking amrit.  Now here is a perfect chance for clown college poster mahakaal to clear up according to his beliefs, woman did take amrit but they took kirpan amrit.  But this never happens instead poster mahakaal writes the following:

In the same post poster mahakaal is asking for proof of women taking amrit when he himself want to change his position later to say women were given amrit through kirpan amrit.  Here it is:

Now poster jkvlondon directly challenged you to present evidence to say Mata Bhao Kaur never took amrit.  You did not provide any comment saying women were given kirpan amrit.  Instead you say no women were given amrit.  Clown college has done a number on your ability use logic.  But let's go with your clown college taught rationality and say you made a mistake and forgot to mention women were given kirpan amrit.

In his last post before he is presented with charan pahul being given to all Sikhs regardless of gender he writes the following.  Again, I am giving him a lot to clear up his post and he had three post where he could have cleared up amrit was given to women through kirpan the amrit.  But in his last post he repeats what he said in the first two post.  Here it is:

Nope didn't clear it up here either.  Such a crucial point of how women were given amrit after being challenged by two poster and this clown college member couldn't remember to write women took amrit through kirpan amrit?  Poster mahakaal, I officially give you the title of Mr. Bigly Trump. Then to add damage to insult he makes up the following example of how Punj Pyare would have to take amrit with their wives as a previous poster said a spouse can't take amrit without their spouse.  Here it is:

Read the first line, again he ask for proof for women receiving amrit.  Amrit and women being or not being given amrit was clearly in his head, but his clown college brain couldn't pull out of his thick head, oooooo by the way women were given kirpan amrit.  This poster mahakaal clearly changed his position after I presented charan pahul was given to all Sikhs regardless of gender and in the same way.  I can't believe I am wasting my time on this thick headed child.  I told him don't play with fire, but Mr. Bigly Trump couldn't resist.  Chalo let's get into rest of his nonsense post. 

 

Humpty dumpty claims there is no evidence of him sitting on the wall, so how could he fall off the wall?  I will provide evidence humpty dumpty sat on the wall after you provide what evidence Hazur Sahib Sikhs and Buddha dal have to say women never took khande da amrit. 

 

Okay, finally some hint of honesty.  But I won't take the bait.  Provide evidence for Mata Sundri ji and Mata Sahib Kaur ji as well.  You made the claim and now it's time to present it.  And no humpty dumpty business.

 

For the same reason naamdhari claim Baba Ram Singh says he was the next Guru of the Sikhs.  baba Ram Singh ji never claimed he was the Guru, but naamdhari continue to do so.  Again stop with the humpty dumpty business or I will be forced to call you Mr. Bigly Trump from this day forward. 

 

Okay, I'm drop the clown college business because I can see your problem.  I won't mention it here because it will only embarrass you even more than you have been.  The Punj Pyare took amrit and so did Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji from the Punj Pyare and then Sikhs from the sangat took amrit.  Which may or may not have included the Punj Pyare wives and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's wife.  DamDami Taksal Rehat Maryada was written after Amrit was given to the sangat.  Spouses receiving amrit together is instructions for Sikhs.  Just to stay consistent, provide evidence on 1699 Amrit was given and it was given in the way you want to promote it.   

I clearly said before addressing your murti comment, your sentence is not clear.  The murti got into Sri Harmandir Sahib because the British allowed it as the British had control of Sri Harmandir Sahib at the time.  British didn't really care about Hazur Sahib because the hub, main place where Sikhs got directions from was Sri Akal Takht Sahib.  Yet Hazur Sahib still was corrupted by the very same people who were set to protect it.     

In this whole mess of a post, you never answered my question, why would women not be given khande da amrit when they were equally given charan pahul?  Since you changed your position.  Here is another question, why are women given kirpan amrit and men are given khande da amrit according to your proof.  If you have not caught on yet, I want proof for all your claims.  You asked others for proof and now it's only fair to ask proof from you.  I will be waiting for this proof.  Don't run and hide.   

A lot of effort & hot air but still no ACTUAL evidence or historical evidence. 

you seem to love the exhibition of your so called knowledge... even though it is based on no real evidence.

unlike you I'm not going to talk much, I'm just going to post up some actual evidence for you. I'm not going to do all the work for you... go research it yourself but anyhow 

Mata Sahib Deva hukamname;

 

 

IMG_1958.JPG

IMG_1959.JPG

IMG_1960.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

This is coming from a person who used said a reason didn't exist and then turned around and said a doesn't exist because the second reason which I already said didn't happens is the reason why the first claim never happened.  Also it's coming from a person who changed his position after being caught in his illerate assessment of Khande da Amrit, once charan pahul factual point was brought up and was given to both genders without any stipulation.  Here let me show you

This is the first time you have mentioned kirpan amrit and never say it in your first post.  You do say the following:

Then later in the post you speak about amrit and say the following:

If you had not changed your position, the above would have said women were first given kirpan amrit by Buddha dal and naamdhari were the first to give khande da amrit.  Let's say you made a mistake and was not clear on your post.  Okay, I'm giving you a chance to clear it up.  So one member quotes your post and poster jkvlondon gives you and example of Mata Bhago Kaur taking amrit.  Now here is a perfect chance for clown college poster mahakaal to clear up according to his beliefs, woman did take amrit but they took kirpan amrit.  But this never happens instead poster mahakaal writes the following:

In the same post poster mahakaal is asking for proof of women taking amrit when he himself want to change his position later to say women were given amrit through kirpan amrit.  Here it is:

Now poster jkvlondon directly challenged you to present evidence to say Mata Bhao Kaur never took amrit.  You did not provide any comment saying women were given kirpan amrit.  Instead you say no women were given amrit.  Clown college has done a number on your ability use logic.  But let's go with your clown college taught rationality and say you made a mistake and forgot to mention women were given kirpan amrit.

In his last post before he is presented with charan pahul being given to all Sikhs regardless of gender he writes the following.  Again, I am giving him a lot to clear up his post and he had three post where he could have cleared up amrit was given to women through kirpan the amrit.  But in his last post he repeats what he said in the first two post.  Here it is:

Nope didn't clear it up here either.  Such a crucial point of how women were given amrit after being challenged by two poster and this clown college member couldn't remember to write women took amrit through kirpan amrit?  Poster mahakaal, I officially give you the title of Mr. Bigly Trump. Then to add damage to insult he makes up the following example of how Punj Pyare would have to take amrit with their wives as a previous poster said a spouse can't take amrit without their spouse.  Here it is:

Read the first line, again he ask for proof for women receiving amrit.  Amrit and women being or not being given amrit was clearly in his head, but his clown college brain couldn't pull out of his thick head, oooooo by the way women were given kirpan amrit.  This poster mahakaal clearly changed his position after I presented charan pahul was given to all Sikhs regardless of gender and in the same way.  I can't believe I am wasting my time on this thick headed child.  I told him don't play with fire, but Mr. Bigly Trump couldn't resist.  Chalo let's get into rest of his nonsense post. 

 

Humpty dumpty claims there is no evidence of him sitting on the wall, so how could he fall off the wall?  I will provide evidence humpty dumpty sat on the wall after you provide what evidence Hazur Sahib Sikhs and Buddha dal have to say women never took khande da amrit. 

 

Okay, finally some hint of honesty.  But I won't take the bait.  Provide evidence for Mata Sundri ji and Mata Sahib Kaur ji as well.  You made the claim and now it's time to present it.  And no humpty dumpty business.

 

For the same reason naamdhari claim Baba Ram Singh says he was the next Guru of the Sikhs.  baba Ram Singh ji never claimed he was the Guru, but naamdhari continue to do so.  Again stop with the humpty dumpty business or I will be forced to call you Mr. Bigly Trump from this day forward. 

 

Okay, I'm drop the clown college business because I can see your problem.  I won't mention it here because it will only embarrass you even more than you have been.  The Punj Pyare took amrit and so did Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji from the Punj Pyare and then Sikhs from the sangat took amrit.  Which may or may not have included the Punj Pyare wives and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's wife.  DamDami Taksal Rehat Maryada was written after Amrit was given to the sangat.  Spouses receiving amrit together is instructions for Sikhs.  Just to stay consistent, provide evidence on 1699 Amrit was given and it was given in the way you want to promote it.   

I clearly said before addressing your murti comment, your sentence is not clear.  The murti got into Sri Harmandir Sahib because the British allowed it as the British had control of Sri Harmandir Sahib at the time.  British didn't really care about Hazur Sahib because the hub, main place where Sikhs got directions from was Sri Akal Takht Sahib.  Yet Hazur Sahib still was corrupted by the very same people who were set to protect it.     

In this whole mess of a post, you never answered my question, why would women not be given khande da amrit when they were equally given charan pahul?  Since you changed your position.  Here is another question, why are women given kirpan amrit and men are given khande da amrit according to your proof.  If you have not caught on yet, I want proof for all your claims.  You asked others for proof and now it's only fair to ask proof from you.  I will be waiting for this proof.  Don't run and hide.   

Rehitnama written by Bhai Chaupa Singh (if you don't know who Bhai Chaupa Singh is then research it)

This rehitnama was written in 1700 which means Guru Gobind Singh Ji were still on this mortal world (maharaj returned to sach kand in 1708)

heres translation for you, it is written that khanda da amrit should not be given to women;

I've asked several times but will ask once more, please provide written historical source which predates 1900 that proves women did take Khanda da amrit. Bhai Chaupa Singhs rehitnama from 1700 says women should not be given khanda da amrit & hukamname from Mata Sahib Deva from early 1700's show Mata never used Kaur in her name (which she would have had she taken khanda da amrit)

Hazur Sahib have written historical sources from the time of mahraj to back up their maryada, unless you provide some ACTUAL evidence then this conversation is at a standstill & pointless.

 

IMG_1947.PNG

IMG_1951.PNG

Edited by Mahakaal96

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Rehitnama written by Bhai Chaupa Singh (if you don't know who Bhai Chaupa Singh is then research it)

This rehitnama was written in 1700 which means Guru Gobind Singh Ji were still on this mortal world (maharaj returned to sach kand in 1708)

heres translation for you, it is written that khanda da amrit should not be given to women;

I've asked several times but will ask once more, please provide written historical source which predates 1900 that proves women did take Khanda da amrit. Bhai Chaupa Singhs rehitnama from 1700 says women should not be given khanda da amrit & hukamname from Mata Sahib Deva from early 1700's show Mata never used Kaur in her name (which she would have had she taken khanda da amrit)

 

IMG_1947.PNG

IMG_1951.PNG

I could find  not the bit proscribing Khande di amrit but I certainly saw something else , a Gursikh bibi cannot recite gurshabad by taking vaak in satsang.... I know that Chaupa SIngh was a Brahmin and somewhere else in the same rehitnama he tells gursikhs that they should respect Brahmin singhs more than others and that women should consider their worldly husband as pati parmeswar (not a sikh belief) . They are some questionable ideas especially even if we compare against rehit of Guru Nanak Dev ji and subsequent Guru Sahiban . Sword is written in english but where is the original ? because a Khanda is a sword as well as a kirpan. Explain to me how kirpan di amrit is not sufficient in itself for male children (at least ) and yet is for women  who have to cook for their men who are not supposed to eat from non-amritdhari , does this mean they only ever ate langar prepared by men?

Edited by jkvlondon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

I could find  not the bit proscribing Khande di amrit but I certainly saw something else , a Gursikh bibi cannot recite gurshabad by taking vaak in satsang.... I know that Chaupa SIngh was a Brahmin and somewhere else in the same rehitnama he tells gursikhs that they should respect Brahmin singhs more than others and that women should consider their worldly husband as pati parmeswar (not a sikh belief) . They are some questionable ideas especially even if we compare against rehit of Guru Nanak Dev ji and subsequent Guru Sahiban . Sword is written in english but where is the original ? because a Khanda is a sword as well as a kirpan. Explain to me how kirpan di amrit is not sufficient in itself for male children (at least ) and yet is for women  who have to cook for their men who are not supposed to eat from non-amritdhari , does this mean they only ever ate langar prepared by men?

Bhai Chaupa singh was the nephew of Shaheed Bhai Mati Dass Ji & a Shaheed himself.

Hazur Sahib would be more then happy to answer your questions or anyone else's. Baba Kulvant Singh jathedar of Hazur Sahib is easily approachable as is Baba Prem Singh Ji from Gurdwara Mata Sahib Deva. 

Edited by Mahakaal96

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/03/2017 at 8:02 PM, Guest Gupt said:

Jasbir Kaur Villaschi,

Give it a rest.

Are you sure you are an Amritdhari Sikh? You certainly do not act nor speak like one. If you are, please consider visiting the Panj Pyare and asking for Pesh. Making violent threats and using potty-mouth language is not Gurmat. Samjh?

Also, I doubt your husband would do that as violence seeing as he is a Brazilian who knows very, very little about Sikhi itihaas.

You are not fooling anyone here.

I couldn't agree more. Jkvlondon, over and over again you adopt an aggressive tone to your discussion, accusing others of beadbi if they disagree with your militant views - which on many an occasion are a misrepresentation of facts, retrospective rewriting of history or declaring that others are not Sikhs.

However the elephant in the room is that despite your attempts to show that you are pious, the inconvenient truth is that metaphorically you choose to do the Brazilian lambada in front of SGGS as your choice in life. 

So keep spouting nonsense, the forum sangat are well aware of your hypocrisy. And no amount of militant nonsense will undo that.

Is your husband a teetotal amridhari convert? If not, then clearly you have chosen kaum as your path. So live with it. Did you have an Anand karaj? How long were you dating before you were married? Is that pious?

Like the guest said, you're not fooling anyone here.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Bhai Chaupa singh was the nephew of Shaheed Bhai Mati Dass Ji & a Shaheed himself

I know the family tree , but the problem is there are some thing there in the written rehitnama which we know that go against Khalsa Rehit (if we are just talking men) when you have amrit you break the bonds to previous belief systems such as caste system and recognise all as one jaat , humanity so why does he do this in the rehitnama:

"7.. Doctrine. A second reason for rejecting the extant text as the unadulterated work of
Chaupa Singh is presumably the presence of attitudes and injunctions which conflict with
twentieth-century orthodoxy. A prominent example is provided by the following item.

Any Gursikh who is a Brahman should receive twice the service and consideration that other
Sikhs receive. He who renders such service shall earn a double reward. 38

The rahit-nama's attitude towards Muslims is similarly unacceptable to orthodox ideals.

A Gursikh should never touch a Muslim woman. He should never become friendly with a
Muslim, nor should he trust his word. Never drink water from the hands of a Muslim and do
not sleep in the company of Muslims. Never trust the oalh of a Muslim ... 39

The notion that Guru Gobind Singh could have sanctioned privilege for Brahmans or the
contemptuous ostracising of all Muslims is unthinkable. No work inspired by the Guru could
possibly include such instructions. If the rahit-nama is truly the work of the Guru's servant
Chaupa Singh then these injunctions and others like them must surely be later interpolations.
conflict with later orthodoxy is also implied in some notable omissions. These include the
text's failure to mention the panj kakke (the five K's)40 and the absence of a distinctive
marriage ritual."
l

 

actually he was great grand nephew as they were grand uncles to Kesar Singh his father

under treatment of women he has put 

" (li) A Gursikh should never trust a woman, neither his own nor another's. Never entrust
a secret to them. Regard them as the embodiment of deceit. [100]"

This is a very Brahmin attitude to women not the Guru's  so you have to be intelligent and weigh it up against Gurbani and Gur Karni ..

under the section on caste :

" 3. Caste133
(i) Personal relationships amongst Sikhs should be based on the belief that there is only
one caste (gotra) and only one lineage for those who are followers of the one true
Guru. [79]"

then immediately contradicts:

" (ii) Sikhs should, however, observe the distinctive customs of their various castes, and
they should marry according to the traditional prescriptions of caste and lineage. This
they should do in order that no stigma may attach to their narne. 134 [II, 121]
(iii) Sikh marriages should be performed by Brahmans. [120]
(iv) Brahman Sikhs should receive double the deference and attention normally bestowed
on a Sikh. Any Sikh who imparts the teachings of the Guru should be similarly
honoured. [24]
At meals, however, Brahmans should not be seated in front of others. All should be
required to sit in the same line and Brahmans should not necessanly be served flrst.[499]"

then you have seperate satsangs for men and women mentioned later  etc too many to-ings and fro-ings , We know that women were admitted into Guru ji's darbar e.g. Rani visiting Guru Amar Das ji  so what's going on ? Has these Rehitnama been messed with at a later time ? Chaupa SIngh was Shaheed in 1723.

it is strange to see under marriage that a Singh can only marry the daughter of a mona if she has CHARAN DA PAHUL  and yet we are told by Guru Sahib himself from 1699 charan di pahul will be replaced by Khande da pahul .  A daughter of a sikh can be married to a Mona if he promises to take intiation :

"(v) A. Gursikh should not marry his daughter to a mona unless he agrees to accept
initiation. ThlS lS performed with sweetened water which has been used to wash a
Granth Sahib lectern (manji). Five stanzas of Japji and five of Anand Sahib should be
recited. The couple should then drink the water. If the bridegroom has previously
worn a sacred thread he may .continue to do so during the wedding ceremony, but he
should subsequently remove 11. [16, 21)"

so confusing ...as this initiation is not even equal to sikh initiation , charan pahul

 

Edited by jkvlondon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

So much hate for one-eyed Singhs. Harsh.

it is because all pairs of eyes imbibe the amrit with energy , even abilakhees are told to do naam jap whilst listening and look at the surface of the amrit .(at least I was told to by my elders) plus the panj are supposed to embody Guru Sahib , who was untainted by disfigurement or handicap

Edited by jkvlondon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"(v) A. Gursikh should not marry his daughter to a mona unless he agrees to accept
initiation. ThlS lS performed with sweetened water which has been used to wash a
Granth Sahib lectern (manji). Five stanzas of Japji and five of Anand Sahib should be
recited. The couple should then drink the water. If the bridegroom has previously
worn a sacred thread he may .continue to do so during the wedding ceremony, but he
should subsequently remove 11. [16, 21)"

I assume this became the process by which charan pahul was prepared once SGGS were given gurgaddi;

' ThlS lS performed with sweetened water which has been used to wash a
Granth Sahib lectern (manji). Five stanzas of Japji and five of Anand Sahib should be recited'

Edited by Mahakaal96

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Loading...



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • If you can't do it in one sitting, then it's ok to do what you can and carry on the rest in another sitting. 
    • International Sikh Research Conference 2017 TIME Sat Jun 17 2017 at 09:00 am  VENUE University of Warwick, Coventry, United Kingdom CREATED BY  Sikh Research Conference                                                                                      The 4th International Sikh Research Conference(ISRC).The annual International Sikh Research Conference (ISRC) is running for the forth time at the University of Warwick on 17th June 2017. The conference will bring together renowned and upcoming Scholars from the UK and around the world. Researchers have previously presented innovative research into important subjects such as *Sikh identity * Sikh Martial Tradition *Gender issues* Sikh religious texts* Sikhs and the Internet* Sikh philosophy *Radicalisation and other important topics.You can still sumbit a paper for the conference visit:  http://www.sikhconference.co.uk/c4p/ Book your place now. Register at  http://www.sikhconference.co.uk/registerandpay/ Please note that you cannot pay on the day.

      The programme starts between 9.00am-9.30am and the program aims to be finished by 6pm.      Source - https://allevents.in/coventry/international-sikh-research-conference-2017/236610506797022
    • Just saying, if there is a ban on our turban(s) then there will be a new era of protests. 
    • Speaking up against the Indian Govt might cause problems and horrible propagandas so I think we should do this low key since we need to do MORE than just Protesting, we need to actually INVEST!