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Once again 3HO are at it trying to justify their practices of yoga.  Through an article written by Harjinder Singh Khalsa, the claim is yoga (posture, breathing, mudras and mental techniques), specifically kundalini yoga aids the mind to where the person is able to focus on Shabad Guru.  This sounds very innocent and some are probably fooled by it too.  Let me rephrase, a lot of Punjabi Sikhs are fooled by this teaching of 3HO.  Harjinder Singh Khalsa tries his best to make a case for 3HO.  3HO have been sought after because they make many wild claims.  They use numerology to name one manmat practice.  Yet some Sikhs like Harjinder Singh Khalsa feel 3HO are being targeted for no reason.  I'm start off with what Harjinder Singh Khalsa says, yoga does not lead to mukti.  This is very true and yet he goes off on a tanget and says kundalini is approved in Gurbani to help aid the mind for meditating on Gurbani.  From Harjinder Singh Khalsa article it is evident he does not have the knowledge to interpret Gurbani or he intentionally went with an English translation that will sway his reader to approve of kundalini yoga as an aid.  Or he's lazy and did not check with credible sources on interpreting Gurbani. 

On ang 909 Satguru is speaking about what is the true way to achieve mukti.  Satguru directly speaks to yogis and their false show of being holy, they have lost the plot and don't know how to achieve mukti.  Harjinder Singh Khalsa at the beginning of the article accuses others of not presenting shabads in the correct manner, who speak against yoga.  But Harjinder Singh Khalsa leaves this line out when quoting ang 909. 

jogI jugiq gvweI hMFY pwKMif jogu n pweI ]10]

ਜੋਗੀ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਗਵਾਈ ਹੰਢੈ ਪਾਖੰਡਿ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਾਈ ॥੧੦॥

jogee jugat gavaae'ee handdai paakhandd jog na paae'ee ||10||

(ਹੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨੋ! ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਦੇ) ਪਖੰਡ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਹਾਸਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ; (ਜਿਹੜਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਿਰਾ ਇਸ ਪਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਉਸ) ਜੋਗੀ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਦੀ ਜੁਗਤੀ (ਹੱਥੋਂ) ਗਵਾ ਲਈ ਹੈ, ਉਹ (ਵਿਅਰਥ) ਭਟਕਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ ।੧੦।

Yogi, you have lost the Way; you wander around confused. Through hypocrisy, Yoga is not attained. ||10||

 

Harjinder Singh Khalsa went out of his way to accuse others, but get's caught in his own arrogances.  He quotes ang 909 to say the following:

siv nagaree mehi aasan baisai gur sabadhee jog paaee ||11||
Sitting in Yogic postures in the City of God, through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall find Yoga. ||11||

dhhaathur baajee sabadh nivaarae naam vasai man aaee ||12||
Restrain your restless wanderings through the Shabad, and the Naam will come to dwell in your mind. ||12||
(Guru Amar Das J; GGSJ: 909)

When I went on Sikhitothemax.com, I found the same translation into English on their site.   Whoever did these translations did a horrible job of representing the Guru.  The line in bold tells a lot about the person who did the translations.  "Siv nagaree" is being translated as "city of God".  Here the word "Siv" is referring to the devta Shiva as the Hindu God.  Yet the translator refuses to say shiva and writes God.  For whatever reason the translator refuses to do a literal translation for this first part.  But then for the second part of the tuk, the translator has no problem doing a literal translation of "mehi aasan baisai"....."sitting in yogic postures".  You can't have it both ways, when it comes to translating.  It's one or the other; be literal or describe the allegory.  Anyone reading this translation will be completely misdirected as Harjinder Singh Khalsa.  So how should this be translated.  We know from other Shabads, Shiva is not seen as Vaheguru and is not to be taken as the Guru either.  Therefore a literal translation of the line is not correct.  To translate "mehi aasan baisai" literally to suit a person's agenda will not be happening here.  Neither will "Siv nagaree" be translated to promote someone else's agenda.  "Siv nagaree" in Gurmat is speaking about dasam dwar.  A Sikh in the dasam dwar is to "mehi aasan baisai" which means to gain focus. On what do we gain focus on in the dasam dwar? Guru's Shabad and the end result is Jog (not yoga).  Jog means union with Vaheguru. So here is the whole line together:

siv nagaree mehi aasan baisai gur sabadhee jog paaee ||11||

In the dasam dwar focus on the Guru's Shabad and gain union with Vaheguru.

Here is another translation in Punjabi below.  Those who can read Punjabi can see, "siv nagaree" is being translated as sadh sangat and "mehi aasan baisai" is translated as focused on Guru Shabad.

isv ngrI mih Awsix bYsY gur sbdI jogu pweI ]11]

 
ਸਿਵ ਨਗਰੀ ਮਹਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਾਈ ॥੧੧॥

siv nagaree mahi aasaN baisai gur sabadhee jog paae'ee ||11||

(ਹੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨੋ! ਜਿਹੜਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਨੇ) ਗੁਰ-ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਹਾਸਲ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਜੋਗੀ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ (ਮਾਨੋ) ਆਸਣ ਉਤੇ ਬੈਠਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ ।੧੧।

When you look up Bhai Sahib Singh translation in Punjabi, he translates exactly the same as the Punjabi translation above

So at this point we have achieved the goal to say yoga, kundalini yoga postures are not promoted in Gurbani.   There is more to say on this article written by Harjinder Singh Khalsa, but I will have to save it for another day.  I have added the link to Harjinder Singh Khalsa article below.

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/yoga-sikhism

 
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1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

Once again 3HO are at it trying to justify their practices of yoga.  Through an article written by Harjinder Singh Khalsa, the claim is yoga (posture, breathing, mudras and mental techniques), specifically kundalini yoga aids the mind to where the person is able to focus on Shabad Guru.  This sounds very innocent and some are probably fooled by it too.  Let me rephrase, a lot of Punjabi Sikhs are fooled by this teaching of 3HO.  Harjinder Singh Khalsa tries his best to make a case for 3HO.  3HO have been sought after because they make many wild claims.  They use numerology to name one manmat practice.  Yet some Sikhs like Harjinder Singh Khalsa feel 3HO are being targeted for no reason.  I'm start off with what Harjinder Singh Khalsa says, yoga does not lead to mukti.  This is very true and yet he goes off on a tanget and says kundalini is approved in Gurbani to help aid the mind for meditating on Gurbani.  From Harjinder Singh Khalsa article it is evident he does not have the knowledge to interpret Gurbani or he intentionally went with an English translation that will sway his reader to approve of kundalini yoga as an aid.  Or he's lazy and did not check with credible sources on interpreting Gurbani. 

On ang 909 Satguru is speaking about what is the true way to achieve mukti.  Satguru directly speaks to yogis and their false show of being holy, they have lost the plot and don't know how to achieve mukti.  Harjinder Singh Khalsa at the beginning of the article accuses others of not presenting shabads in the correct manner, who speak against yoga.  But Harjinder Singh Khalsa leaves this line out when quoting ang 909. 

jogI jugiq gvweI hMFY pwKMif jogu n pweI ]10]

ਜੋਗੀ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਗਵਾਈ ਹੰਢੈ ਪਾਖੰਡਿ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਾਈ ॥੧੦॥

jogee jugat gavaae'ee handdai paakhandd jog na paae'ee ||10||

(ਹੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨੋ! ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਦੇ) ਪਖੰਡ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਹਾਸਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ; (ਜਿਹੜਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਿਰਾ ਇਸ ਪਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਉਸ) ਜੋਗੀ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਦੀ ਜੁਗਤੀ (ਹੱਥੋਂ) ਗਵਾ ਲਈ ਹੈ, ਉਹ (ਵਿਅਰਥ) ਭਟਕਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ ।੧੦।

Yogi, you have lost the Way; you wander around confused. Through hypocrisy, Yoga is not attained. ||10||

 

Harjinder Singh Khalsa went out of his way to accuse others, but get's caught in his own arrogances.  He quotes ang 909 to say the following:

siv nagaree mehi aasan baisai gur sabadhee jog paaee ||11||
Sitting in Yogic postures in the City of God, through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall find Yoga. ||11||

dhhaathur baajee sabadh nivaarae naam vasai man aaee ||12||
Restrain your restless wanderings through the Shabad, and the Naam will come to dwell in your mind. ||12||
(Guru Amar Das J; GGSJ: 909)

When I went on Sikhitothemax.com, I found the same translation into English on their site.   Whoever did these translations did a horrible job of representing the Guru.  The line in bold tells a lot about the person who did the translations.  "Siv nagaree" is being translated as "city of God".  Here the word "Siv" is referring to the devta Shiva as the Hindu God.  Yet the translator refuses to say shiva and writes God.  For whatever reason the translator refuses to do a literal translation for this first part.  But then for the second part of the tuk, the translator has no problem doing a literal translation of "mehi aasan baisai"....."sitting in yogic postures".  You can't have it both ways, when it comes to translating.  It's one or the other; be literal or describe the allegory.  Anyone reading this translation will be completely misdirected as Harjinder Singh Khalsa.  So how should this be translated.  We know from other Shabads, Shiva is not seen as Vaheguru and is not to be taken as the Guru either.  Therefore a literal translation of the line is not correct.  To translate "mehi aasan baisai" literally to suit a person's agenda will not be happening here.  Neither will "Siv nagaree" be translated to promote someone else's agenda.  "Siv nagaree" in Gurmat is speaking about dasam dwar.  A Sikh in the dasam dwar is to "mehi aasan baisai" which means to gain focus. On what do we gain focus on in the dasam dwar? Guru's Shabad and the end result is Jog (not yoga).  Jog means union with Vaheguru. So here is the whole line together:

siv nagaree mehi aasan baisai gur sabadhee jog paaee ||11||

In the dasam dwar focus on the Guru's Shabad and gain union with Vaheguru.

Here is another translation in Punjabi below.  Those who can read Punjabi can see, "siv nagaree" is being translated as sadh sangat and "mehi aasan baisai" is translated as focused on Guru Shabad.

isv ngrI mih Awsix bYsY gur sbdI jogu pweI ]11]

 
ਸਿਵ ਨਗਰੀ ਮਹਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਾਈ ॥੧੧॥

siv nagaree mahi aasaN baisai gur sabadhee jog paae'ee ||11||

(ਹੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨੋ! ਜਿਹੜਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਨੇ) ਗੁਰ-ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਹਾਸਲ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਜੋਗੀ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ (ਮਾਨੋ) ਆਸਣ ਉਤੇ ਬੈਠਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ ।੧੧।

When you look up Bhai Sahib Singh translation in Punjabi, he translates exactly the same as the Punjabi translation above

So at this point we have achieved the goal to say yoga, kundalini yoga postures are not promoted in Gurbani.   There is more to say on this article written by Harjinder Singh Khalsa, but I will have to save it for another day.  I have added the link to Harjinder Singh Khalsa article below.

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/yoga-sikhism

 

the english translation by Sant SIngh Khalsa is basically the same as Sahib SIngh's but tweaked to twist to yogic matlab ...you can go through the whole saroop and find examples such as the one you highlighted .

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11 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

I don't know much about 3ho but the argument you have presented against them is equally flawed. .. technically speaking. . 

How so? I read over it and didn't really find anything flawed in it. Maybe I missed something or OP missed something. 

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Guest Jacfsing2
7 hours ago, Kira said:

How so? I read over it and didn't really find anything flawed in it. Maybe I missed something or OP missed something. 

Wasn't this the same guy posed nonsense on how he discredited Taksal? @Kira, don't waste your time on him, I've considered him a lost cause, (only Guru Sahib can fix his brain now:waheguru:)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Jacfsing2
20 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

@Jacfsingh2 you slandered me can you provide any evidence. Trumpism? 

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Since your not letting the issue go, just go back to the entire interfaith Anand Karaj thread where you clearly denied Gurmat evidence against Guru Sahib's Beadbi, (which you endorsed in that thread), and then let the entire thing come-in. But ultimately I've accepted that you are a lost cause; therefore teaching you anything is like talking to some 3HO that their sex yoga is anti-Gurmat. So all I'll tell you is: Vaheguru. DON'T REPLY AGAIN TO @Jacfsing2, IF YOU AREN'T OPEN TO LEARNING! Second don't reply unless you admit you were on the wrong side of that issue. (without having basic common sense it's useless to argue any further). Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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Guest Jacfsing2
On 3/19/2017 at 11:50 PM, JUSTAJATT said:

Do any of you guys know what Yoga means?

Yoga means union; however, the yoga that relates to the sex and the streches ain't true yoga. Instead of their sex yoga they should just have intercourse, maybe add a few of their personal exercise kinks and fetishes privately in their bedroom; without publicly involving all this nonsense in a public square.

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5 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Yoga means union; however, the yoga that relates to the sex and the streches ain't true yoga. Instead of their sex yoga they should just have intercourse, maybe add a few of their personal exercise kinks and fetishes privately in their bedroom; without publicly involving all this nonsense in a public square.

There is no yoga that relates to sex. Even if there were, it has nothing to do with yoga that the Sikh should be concerned about. You are foolishly implying that 3ho is all about some weird yoga and sex >>>>>you are very wrong my friend.

You will claim I am wrong and I will say you are. We can carry on like idiots doing this, which is why I asked where gurbani speaks against yoga. I mean pangti >>line for line and shabad by shabad>>using your own words.   >>Then we shall see.  I don' want no posting of videos or flanna themkhara said this and that. Plain gurbani and constructive workings by individual Sikhs.

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On 19 March 2017 at 1:05 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Since your not letting the issue go, just go back to the entire interfaith Anand Karaj thread where you clearly denied Gurmat evidence against Guru Sahib's Beadbi, (which you endorsed in that thread), and then let the entire thing come-in. But ultimately I've accepted that you are a lost cause; therefore teaching you anything is like talking to some 3HO that their sex yoga is anti-Gurmat. So all I'll tell you is: Vaheguru. DON'T REPLY AGAIN TO @Jacfsing2, IF YOU AREN'T OPEN TO LEARNING! Second don't reply unless you admit you were on the wrong side of that issue. (without having basic common sense it's useless to argue any further). Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Jacfsing2, I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this post of yours! 

I just cannot fathom what is contained inside that wonderful tiny little mind of yours. You are always ranting on and on about how you hate Christians on this site even though you hardly know anything about them. What have the Christians ever done to you that was so evil or bad? Why do you always slander Jesus and his Bible? Do you not realise how sinful this can be for your spiritual advancement if you slander prophets of other religions? 

You appear to have so much hate against the White 3HOs too, but why? What are your reasons? What wrong have they ever done to you personally? I know there are still those that have a slave mentality and still view any White skinned person superior to themselves, regardless of their actions; but you claim to be a young person! I am not suggesting you lick their a**es just because they are White, for one minute, like the rest of the quam does!! You just need to be little bit unbiased as well as observant and only hate their (wrong) actions, that's all. Don't you realise how you are poisoning that fresh young mind of yours by indulging with such hateful thoughts about 3HOs and Jesus? 

Have you had very bad experiences with Jesus and his followers or the 3HOs? Just let it go if I were you. I wouldn't like to see that wonderful, beautiful young mind of yours turn into poison while you still have the chance to turn it into a priceless little gem or a jewel instead! You are still young so make an effort to feed your mind with nourishing positive stuff otherwise you will end up turning into a stale cabbage that stinks of you know what..........? 

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51 minutes ago, muscleman said:

Jacfsing2, I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this post of yours! 

I just cannot fathom what is contained inside that wonderful tiny little mind of yours. You are always ranting on and on about how you hate Christians on this site even though you hardly know anything about them. What have the Christians ever done to you that was so evil or bad? Why do you always slander Jesus and his Bible? Do you not realise how sinful this can be for your spiritual advancement if you slander prophets of other religions? 

You appear to have so much hate against the White 3HOs too, but why? What are your reasons? What wrong have they ever done to you personally? I know there are still those that have a slave mentality and still view any White skinned person superior to themselves, regardless of their actions; but you claim to be a young person! I am not suggesting you lick their a**es just because they are White, for one minute, like the rest of the quam does!! You just need to be little bit unbiased as well as observant and only hate their (wrong) actions, that's all. Don't you realise how you are poisoning that fresh young mind of yours by indulging with such hateful thoughts about 3HOs and Jesus? 

Have you had very bad experiences with Jesus and his followers or the 3HOs? Just let it go if I were you. I wouldn't like to see that wonderful, beautiful young mind of yours turn into poison while you still have the chance to turn it into a priceless little gem or a jewel instead! You are still young so make an effort to feed your mind with nourishing positive stuff otherwise you will end up turning into a stale cabbage that stinks of you know what..........? 

He's got a lot to learn. He's gotta grab on to the bhakti marg and then he may start seeing the real jot amongst us all.

Don't worry,>>I used to be much worse than him with so much hate and krodh. Sikhi can be quite confusing if people are just stuck on the outer surface. Being a Sikh is supposed to make you realise where other spiritual teachers from different faiths have gone wrong NOT the  faiths. Guru or bani NEVER speaks against a single religion but it speaks against the fat controllers that distort the religions with blind practice. As for Christianity, it's very misunderstood and if a Sikh is slating it >>then that Sikh has a lot to learn yet

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