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Once again 3HO are at it trying to justify their practices of yoga.  Through an article written by Harjinder Singh Khalsa, the claim is yoga (posture, breathing, mudras and mental techniques), specifically kundalini yoga aids the mind to where the person is able to focus on Shabad Guru.  This sounds very innocent and some are probably fooled by it too.  Let me rephrase, a lot of Punjabi Sikhs are fooled by this teaching of 3HO.  Harjinder Singh Khalsa tries his best to make a case for 3HO.  3HO have been sought after because they make many wild claims.  They use numerology to name one manmat practice.  Yet some Sikhs like Harjinder Singh Khalsa feel 3HO are being targeted for no reason.  I'm start off with what Harjinder Singh Khalsa says, yoga does not lead to mukti.  This is very true and yet he goes off on a tanget and says kundalini is approved in Gurbani to help aid the mind for meditating on Gurbani.  From Harjinder Singh Khalsa article it is evident he does not have the knowledge to interpret Gurbani or he intentionally went with an English translation that will sway his reader to approve of kundalini yoga as an aid.  Or he's lazy and did not check with credible sources on interpreting Gurbani. 

On ang 909 Satguru is speaking about what is the true way to achieve mukti.  Satguru directly speaks to yogis and their false show of being holy, they have lost the plot and don't know how to achieve mukti.  Harjinder Singh Khalsa at the beginning of the article accuses others of not presenting shabads in the correct manner, who speak against yoga.  But Harjinder Singh Khalsa leaves this line out when quoting ang 909. 

jogI jugiq gvweI hMFY pwKMif jogu n pweI ]10]

ਜੋਗੀ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਗਵਾਈ ਹੰਢੈ ਪਾਖੰਡਿ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਾਈ ॥੧੦॥

jogee jugat gavaae'ee handdai paakhandd jog na paae'ee ||10||

(ਹੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨੋ! ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਦੇ) ਪਖੰਡ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਹਾਸਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ; (ਜਿਹੜਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਿਰਾ ਇਸ ਪਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਉਸ) ਜੋਗੀ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਦੀ ਜੁਗਤੀ (ਹੱਥੋਂ) ਗਵਾ ਲਈ ਹੈ, ਉਹ (ਵਿਅਰਥ) ਭਟਕਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ ।੧੦।

Yogi, you have lost the Way; you wander around confused. Through hypocrisy, Yoga is not attained. ||10||

 

Harjinder Singh Khalsa went out of his way to accuse others, but get's caught in his own arrogances.  He quotes ang 909 to say the following:

siv nagaree mehi aasan baisai gur sabadhee jog paaee ||11||
Sitting in Yogic postures in the City of God, through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall find Yoga. ||11||

dhhaathur baajee sabadh nivaarae naam vasai man aaee ||12||
Restrain your restless wanderings through the Shabad, and the Naam will come to dwell in your mind. ||12||
(Guru Amar Das J; GGSJ: 909)

When I went on Sikhitothemax.com, I found the same translation into English on their site.   Whoever did these translations did a horrible job of representing the Guru.  The line in bold tells a lot about the person who did the translations.  "Siv nagaree" is being translated as "city of God".  Here the word "Siv" is referring to the devta Shiva as the Hindu God.  Yet the translator refuses to say shiva and writes God.  For whatever reason the translator refuses to do a literal translation for this first part.  But then for the second part of the tuk, the translator has no problem doing a literal translation of "mehi aasan baisai"....."sitting in yogic postures".  You can't have it both ways, when it comes to translating.  It's one or the other; be literal or describe the allegory.  Anyone reading this translation will be completely misdirected as Harjinder Singh Khalsa.  So how should this be translated.  We know from other Shabads, Shiva is not seen as Vaheguru and is not to be taken as the Guru either.  Therefore a literal translation of the line is not correct.  To translate "mehi aasan baisai" literally to suit a person's agenda will not be happening here.  Neither will "Siv nagaree" be translated to promote someone else's agenda.  "Siv nagaree" in Gurmat is speaking about dasam dwar.  A Sikh in the dasam dwar is to "mehi aasan baisai" which means to gain focus. On what do we gain focus on in the dasam dwar? Guru's Shabad and the end result is Jog (not yoga).  Jog means union with Vaheguru. So here is the whole line together:

siv nagaree mehi aasan baisai gur sabadhee jog paaee ||11||

In the dasam dwar focus on the Guru's Shabad and gain union with Vaheguru.

Here is another translation in Punjabi below.  Those who can read Punjabi can see, "siv nagaree" is being translated as sadh sangat and "mehi aasan baisai" is translated as focused on Guru Shabad.

isv ngrI mih Awsix bYsY gur sbdI jogu pweI ]11]

 
ਸਿਵ ਨਗਰੀ ਮਹਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਾਈ ॥੧੧॥

siv nagaree mahi aasaN baisai gur sabadhee jog paae'ee ||11||

(ਹੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨੋ! ਜਿਹੜਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਨੇ) ਗੁਰ-ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਹਾਸਲ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਜੋਗੀ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ (ਮਾਨੋ) ਆਸਣ ਉਤੇ ਬੈਠਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ ।੧੧।

When you look up Bhai Sahib Singh translation in Punjabi, he translates exactly the same as the Punjabi translation above

So at this point we have achieved the goal to say yoga, kundalini yoga postures are not promoted in Gurbani.   There is more to say on this article written by Harjinder Singh Khalsa, but I will have to save it for another day.  I have added the link to Harjinder Singh Khalsa article below.

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/yoga-sikhism

 

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1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

Once again 3HO are at it trying to justify their practices of yoga.  Through an article written by Harjinder Singh Khalsa, the claim is yoga (posture, breathing, mudras and mental techniques), specifically kundalini yoga aids the mind to where the person is able to focus on Shabad Guru.  This sounds very innocent and some are probably fooled by it too.  Let me rephrase, a lot of Punjabi Sikhs are fooled by this teaching of 3HO.  Harjinder Singh Khalsa tries his best to make a case for 3HO.  3HO have been sought after because they make many wild claims.  They use numerology to name one manmat practice.  Yet some Sikhs like Harjinder Singh Khalsa feel 3HO are being targeted for no reason.  I'm start off with what Harjinder Singh Khalsa says, yoga does not lead to mukti.  This is very true and yet he goes off on a tanget and says kundalini is approved in Gurbani to help aid the mind for meditating on Gurbani.  From Harjinder Singh Khalsa article it is evident he does not have the knowledge to interpret Gurbani or he intentionally went with an English translation that will sway his reader to approve of kundalini yoga as an aid.  Or he's lazy and did not check with credible sources on interpreting Gurbani. 

On ang 909 Satguru is speaking about what is the true way to achieve mukti.  Satguru directly speaks to yogis and their false show of being holy, they have lost the plot and don't know how to achieve mukti.  Harjinder Singh Khalsa at the beginning of the article accuses others of not presenting shabads in the correct manner, who speak against yoga.  But Harjinder Singh Khalsa leaves this line out when quoting ang 909. 

jogI jugiq gvweI hMFY pwKMif jogu n pweI ]10]

ਜੋਗੀ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਗਵਾਈ ਹੰਢੈ ਪਾਖੰਡਿ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਾਈ ॥੧੦॥

jogee jugat gavaae'ee handdai paakhandd jog na paae'ee ||10||

(ਹੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨੋ! ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਭੇਖ ਦੇ) ਪਖੰਡ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਹਾਸਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੁੰਦਾ; (ਜਿਹੜਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਨਿਰਾ ਇਸ ਪਖੰਡ ਵਿਚ ਪਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਉਸ) ਜੋਗੀ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਦੀ ਜੁਗਤੀ (ਹੱਥੋਂ) ਗਵਾ ਲਈ ਹੈ, ਉਹ (ਵਿਅਰਥ) ਭਟਕਦਾ ਫਿਰਦਾ ਹੈ ।੧੦।

Yogi, you have lost the Way; you wander around confused. Through hypocrisy, Yoga is not attained. ||10||

 

Harjinder Singh Khalsa went out of his way to accuse others, but get's caught in his own arrogances.  He quotes ang 909 to say the following:

siv nagaree mehi aasan baisai gur sabadhee jog paaee ||11||
Sitting in Yogic postures in the City of God, through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you shall find Yoga. ||11||

dhhaathur baajee sabadh nivaarae naam vasai man aaee ||12||
Restrain your restless wanderings through the Shabad, and the Naam will come to dwell in your mind. ||12||
(Guru Amar Das J; GGSJ: 909)

When I went on Sikhitothemax.com, I found the same translation into English on their site.   Whoever did these translations did a horrible job of representing the Guru.  The line in bold tells a lot about the person who did the translations.  "Siv nagaree" is being translated as "city of God".  Here the word "Siv" is referring to the devta Shiva as the Hindu God.  Yet the translator refuses to say shiva and writes God.  For whatever reason the translator refuses to do a literal translation for this first part.  But then for the second part of the tuk, the translator has no problem doing a literal translation of "mehi aasan baisai"....."sitting in yogic postures".  You can't have it both ways, when it comes to translating.  It's one or the other; be literal or describe the allegory.  Anyone reading this translation will be completely misdirected as Harjinder Singh Khalsa.  So how should this be translated.  We know from other Shabads, Shiva is not seen as Vaheguru and is not to be taken as the Guru either.  Therefore a literal translation of the line is not correct.  To translate "mehi aasan baisai" literally to suit a person's agenda will not be happening here.  Neither will "Siv nagaree" be translated to promote someone else's agenda.  "Siv nagaree" in Gurmat is speaking about dasam dwar.  A Sikh in the dasam dwar is to "mehi aasan baisai" which means to gain focus. On what do we gain focus on in the dasam dwar? Guru's Shabad and the end result is Jog (not yoga).  Jog means union with Vaheguru. So here is the whole line together:

siv nagaree mehi aasan baisai gur sabadhee jog paaee ||11||

In the dasam dwar focus on the Guru's Shabad and gain union with Vaheguru.

Here is another translation in Punjabi below.  Those who can read Punjabi can see, "siv nagaree" is being translated as sadh sangat and "mehi aasan baisai" is translated as focused on Guru Shabad.

isv ngrI mih Awsix bYsY gur sbdI jogu pweI ]11]

 
ਸਿਵ ਨਗਰੀ ਮਹਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਜੋਗੁ ਪਾਈ ॥੧੧॥

siv nagaree mahi aasaN baisai gur sabadhee jog paae'ee ||11||

(ਹੇ ਸੰਤ ਜਨੋ! ਜਿਹੜਾ ਜੋਗੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਵਿਚ ਜੁੜਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਨੇ) ਗੁਰ-ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੀ ਬਰਕਤ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਹਾਸਲ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ, ਉਹ ਜੋਗੀ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ (ਮਾਨੋ) ਆਸਣ ਉਤੇ ਬੈਠਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ ।੧੧।

When you look up Bhai Sahib Singh translation in Punjabi, he translates exactly the same as the Punjabi translation above

So at this point we have achieved the goal to say yoga, kundalini yoga postures are not promoted in Gurbani.   There is more to say on this article written by Harjinder Singh Khalsa, but I will have to save it for another day.  I have added the link to Harjinder Singh Khalsa article below.

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/yoga-sikhism

 

the english translation by Sant SIngh Khalsa is basically the same as Sahib SIngh's but tweaked to twist to yogic matlab ...you can go through the whole saroop and find examples such as the one you highlighted .

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11 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

I don't know much about 3ho but the argument you have presented against them is equally flawed. .. technically speaking. . 

How so? I read over it and didn't really find anything flawed in it. Maybe I missed something or OP missed something. 

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7 hours ago, Kira said:

How so? I read over it and didn't really find anything flawed in it. Maybe I missed something or OP missed something. 

Wasn't this the same guy posed nonsense on how he discredited Taksal? @Kira, don't waste your time on him, I've considered him a lost cause, (only Guru Sahib can fix his brain now:waheguru:)

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20 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

@Jacfsingh2 you slandered me can you provide any evidence. Trumpism? 

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Since your not letting the issue go, just go back to the entire interfaith Anand Karaj thread where you clearly denied Gurmat evidence against Guru Sahib's Beadbi, (which you endorsed in that thread), and then let the entire thing come-in. But ultimately I've accepted that you are a lost cause; therefore teaching you anything is like talking to some 3HO that their sex yoga is anti-Gurmat. So all I'll tell you is: Vaheguru. DON'T REPLY AGAIN TO @Jacfsing2, IF YOU AREN'T OPEN TO LEARNING! Second don't reply unless you admit you were on the wrong side of that issue. (without having basic common sense it's useless to argue any further). Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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Do any of you guys know what Yoga means?

@Akalifauj, you clearly don't know if gurbani speaks against yoga or not..

I challenge you for evidence.> shabad by shabad and line by line > your own words and then we shall see.

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On 3/19/2017 at 11:50 PM, JUSTAJATT said:

Do any of you guys know what Yoga means?

Yoga means union; however, the yoga that relates to the sex and the streches ain't true yoga. Instead of their sex yoga they should just have intercourse, maybe add a few of their personal exercise kinks and fetishes privately in their bedroom; without publicly involving all this nonsense in a public square.

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5 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Yoga means union; however, the yoga that relates to the sex and the streches ain't true yoga. Instead of their sex yoga they should just have intercourse, maybe add a few of their personal exercise kinks and fetishes privately in their bedroom; without publicly involving all this nonsense in a public square.

There is no yoga that relates to sex. Even if there were, it has nothing to do with yoga that the Sikh should be concerned about. You are foolishly implying that 3ho is all about some weird yoga and sex >>>>>you are very wrong my friend.

You will claim I am wrong and I will say you are. We can carry on like idiots doing this, which is why I asked where gurbani speaks against yoga. I mean pangti >>line for line and shabad by shabad>>using your own words.   >>Then we shall see.  I don' want no posting of videos or flanna themkhara said this and that. Plain gurbani and constructive workings by individual Sikhs.

Edited by JUSTAJATT
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On 19 March 2017 at 1:05 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Since your not letting the issue go, just go back to the entire interfaith Anand Karaj thread where you clearly denied Gurmat evidence against Guru Sahib's Beadbi, (which you endorsed in that thread), and then let the entire thing come-in. But ultimately I've accepted that you are a lost cause; therefore teaching you anything is like talking to some 3HO that their sex yoga is anti-Gurmat. So all I'll tell you is: Vaheguru. DON'T REPLY AGAIN TO @Jacfsing2, IF YOU AREN'T OPEN TO LEARNING! Second don't reply unless you admit you were on the wrong side of that issue. (without having basic common sense it's useless to argue any further). Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Jacfsing2, I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this post of yours! 

I just cannot fathom what is contained inside that wonderful tiny little mind of yours. You are always ranting on and on about how you hate Christians on this site even though you hardly know anything about them. What have the Christians ever done to you that was so evil or bad? Why do you always slander Jesus and his Bible? Do you not realise how sinful this can be for your spiritual advancement if you slander prophets of other religions? 

You appear to have so much hate against the White 3HOs too, but why? What are your reasons? What wrong have they ever done to you personally? I know there are still those that have a slave mentality and still view any White skinned person superior to themselves, regardless of their actions; but you claim to be a young person! I am not suggesting you lick their a**es just because they are White, for one minute, like the rest of the quam does!! You just need to be little bit unbiased as well as observant and only hate their (wrong) actions, that's all. Don't you realise how you are poisoning that fresh young mind of yours by indulging with such hateful thoughts about 3HOs and Jesus? 

Have you had very bad experiences with Jesus and his followers or the 3HOs? Just let it go if I were you. I wouldn't like to see that wonderful, beautiful young mind of yours turn into poison while you still have the chance to turn it into a priceless little gem or a jewel instead! You are still young so make an effort to feed your mind with nourishing positive stuff otherwise you will end up turning into a stale cabbage that stinks of you know what..........? 

Edited by muscleman
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51 minutes ago, muscleman said:

Jacfsing2, I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this post of yours! 

I just cannot fathom what is contained inside that wonderful tiny little mind of yours. You are always ranting on and on about how you hate Christians on this site even though you hardly know anything about them. What have the Christians ever done to you that was so evil or bad? Why do you always slander Jesus and his Bible? Do you not realise how sinful this can be for your spiritual advancement if you slander prophets of other religions? 

You appear to have so much hate against the White 3HOs too, but why? What are your reasons? What wrong have they ever done to you personally? I know there are still those that have a slave mentality and still view any White skinned person superior to themselves, regardless of their actions; but you claim to be a young person! I am not suggesting you lick their a**es just because they are White, for one minute, like the rest of the quam does!! You just need to be little bit unbiased as well as observant and only hate their (wrong) actions, that's all. Don't you realise how you are poisoning that fresh young mind of yours by indulging with such hateful thoughts about 3HOs and Jesus? 

Have you had very bad experiences with Jesus and his followers or the 3HOs? Just let it go if I were you. I wouldn't like to see that wonderful, beautiful young mind of yours turn into poison while you still have the chance to turn it into a priceless little gem or a jewel instead! You are still young so make an effort to feed your mind with nourishing positive stuff otherwise you will end up turning into a stale cabbage that stinks of you know what..........? 

He's got a lot to learn. He's gotta grab on to the bhakti marg and then he may start seeing the real jot amongst us all.

Don't worry,>>I used to be much worse than him with so much hate and krodh. Sikhi can be quite confusing if people are just stuck on the outer surface. Being a Sikh is supposed to make you realise where other spiritual teachers from different faiths have gone wrong NOT the  faiths. Guru or bani NEVER speaks against a single religion but it speaks against the fat controllers that distort the religions with blind practice. As for Christianity, it's very misunderstood and if a Sikh is slating it >>then that Sikh has a lot to learn yet

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1 hour ago, muscleman said:

Jacfsing2, I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this post of yours! 

I just cannot fathom what is contained inside that wonderful tiny little mind of yours. You are always ranting on and on about how you hate Christians on this site even though you hardly know anything about them. What have the Christians ever done to you that was so evil or bad? Why do you always slander Jesus and his Bible? Do you not realise how sinful this can be for your spiritual advancement if you slander prophets of other religions? 

You appear to have so much hate against the White 3HOs too, but why? What are your reasons? What wrong have they ever done to you personally? I know there are still those that have a slave mentality and still view any White skinned person superior to themselves, regardless of their actions; but you claim to be a young person! I am not suggesting you lick their a**es just because they are White, for one minute, like the rest of the quam does!! You just need to be little bit unbiased as well as observant and only hate their (wrong) actions, that's all. Don't you realise how you are poisoning that fresh young mind of yours by indulging with such hateful thoughts about 3HOs and Jesus? 

Have you had very bad experiences with Jesus and his followers or the 3HOs? Just let it go if I were you. I wouldn't like to see that wonderful, beautiful young mind of yours turn into poison while you still have the chance to turn it into a priceless little gem or a jewel instead! You are still young so make an effort to feed your mind with nourishing positive stuff otherwise you will end up turning into a stale cabbage that stinks of you know what..........? 

You want me to kiss Christian feet? Clean their homes? Say their religion is right? Call Jesus Pakhandi God? Don't know what you want from me, but if you expect me to do any of those things it's not happening. I respect individual humans not groups. (This includes Sikh people), people aren't good because of their organization, but rather from Vaheguru himself. Also, if I said anything that I personally offended you, @muscleman, then I apologize, but stop trolling my posts when it has nothing to do with you; otherwise peace ✌.

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46 minutes ago, JUSTAJATT said:

 

No disrespect, but I answered your yoga question without a bias answer: but Kaam is opposed in Gurbani and whatever personal problem one has with it we should assist them in fighting and controlling it; however, to openly have sex yoga is manmat especially around young kids. Also all tantric yoga is sex yoga; which 3HO does.

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13 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

You want me to kiss Christian feet? Clean their homes? Say their religion is right? Call Jesus Pakhandi God? Don't know what you want from me, but if you expect me to do any of those things it's not happening. I respect individual humans not groups. (This includes Sikh people), people aren't good because of their organization, but rather from Vaheguru himself. Also, if I said anything that I personally offended you, @muscleman, then I apologize, but stop trolling my posts when it has nothing to do with you; otherwise peace ✌

Edited by muscleman

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Gurbani speaks against Yoga in the sense that its the way to God. Yogis were an odd bunch, some walked around naked, some were living in mountains. Yoga like that, that's totally anti-gurmat for Sikhs. If there are Sikhs doing it for exercise then its fine, its a nice way to relax, release stress and stay healthy. That's fine as well, however actively encouraging it as a tool to get close to God is something completely different. 

Quote

There is no yoga that relates to sex.

Tantric Yoga has aspects of eroticism within it. I can't speak to if its done in other places but its got a huge following in certain parts of India. Though this whole topic is alot more deeper than people let on. 

Edited by Kira
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On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 1:17 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

No disrespect, but I answered your yoga question without a bias answer

No disrespect>much respect. You didn't answer without diverting.

Quote

 tantric yoga is sex yoga; which 3HO does.

Tantric yoga varies according to what energy you are dealing with. Where has 3HO been associated with sex yoga. They do kundalini yoga and white tantric. White tantric is NOT sexual, red tantric done by some hari dammas is twisted sexual form.

I aint got no more interest into listening to guys who refuse to even try and learn what the terms tantra actually mean and also to the jathabandi fanatics amogst us.

If you wanna argue with me, put the gurbani here and we can discuss it Sikh to Sikh, word for word, pangti to pangti. Otherwise, go wash your mouths, clean your ears and open your eyes.

 

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26 minutes ago, JUSTAJATT said:

No disrespect>much respect. You didn't answer without diverting.

Tantric yoga varies according to what energy you are dealing with. Where has 3HO been associated with sex yoga. They do kundalini yoga and white tantric. White tantric is NOT sexual, red tantric done by some hari dammas is twisted sexual form.

I aint got no more interest into listening to guys who refuse to even try and learn what the terms tantra actually mean and also to the jathabandi fanatics amogst us.

If you wanna argue with me, put the gurbani here and we can discuss it Sikh to Sikh, word for word, pangti to pangti. Otherwise, go wash your mouths, clean your ears and open your eyes.

Even Kira is telling you straight-up, but how much Gurbani you follow I don't know, but if I posted Anti-Caste Gurbani; you'd still argue, "No, Gurbani doesn't talk about ending caste, but rather castes being equal". We know your intention; just look at the username you picked for yourself.

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6 hours ago, JUSTAJATT said:

No disrespect>much respect. You didn't answer without diverting.

Tantric yoga varies according to what energy you are dealing with. Where has 3HO been associated with sex yoga. They do kundalini yoga and white tantric. White tantric is NOT sexual, red tantric done by some hari dammas is twisted sexual form.

I aint got no more interest into listening to guys who refuse to even try and learn what the terms tantra actually mean and also to the jathabandi fanatics amogst us.

If you wanna argue with me, put the gurbani here and we can discuss it Sikh to Sikh, word for word, pangti to pangti. Otherwise, go wash your mouths, clean your ears and open your eyes.

 

Point me to where I said 3HO deal with sexual tantric yoga. I only pointed out that there is aspects of eroticism in Yoga. Yoga as a wholesome exorcise is fine, there's nothing wrong there. But it doesn't impact spirituality at all, Plenty of Gursikhs reached Brahmgyan and none of them practiced Yoga in the physical sense. You claim to be a Sikh yet you have a username which is completely contradictory to it. If you want to speak about Gurbani then sure.

 

On 24/03/2017 at 7:26 PM, JUSTAJATT said:

Being a Sikh is supposed to make you realise where other spiritual teachers from different faiths have gone wrong NOT the  faiths. 

Eh have you even read Batichar Natek, if the teachers who started the faith are wrong then the faith is also wrong. Thus far the only people outside of Sikhi who reached Brahmgyan and to Akal ALL abandoned those faiths. 

Quote

Guru or bani NEVER speaks against a single religion but it speaks against the fat controllers that distort the religions with blind practice.

Once again, if you read Gurbani properly (infact if you read Batichar Natek) then you'll see that it does talk against other faiths. The propagators of the faiths were nothing more than flawed individuals, if the people who started it were flawed then so is the religion. 

ਤਬ ਜੇ ਜੇ ਰਿਖਰਾਜ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਆਪਨ ਪੁਨ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਚਲਾਏ ॥੧੭॥
Taba Je Je Rikharaaja Banaaee ॥ Tina Aapana Puna Sianmarita Chalaaee ॥17॥
 

ਜੇ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੀ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥
Je Sianmaritana Ke Bhaee Anuraagee ॥ Tini Tini Kariaa Barahama Kee Tiaagee ॥
 

ਜਿਨ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ ਸੋ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਹ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੧੮॥
Jina Mana Hari Charanana Tthahiraayo ॥ So Sianmaritana Ke Raaha Na Aayo ॥18॥
 

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਬੇਦ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਮ ਚਲਾਏ ॥
Barahamaa Chaar Hee Beda Banaaee ॥ Sarab Loka Tiha Karam Chalaaee ॥
 

ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲਿਵ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਤੇ ਬੇਦਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥੧੯॥
Jina Kee Liva Hari Charanana Laagee ॥ Te Bedana Te Bhaee Tiaagee ॥19॥

ਜਿਨ ਮਤ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਨ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੇ ਭਏ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ॥
Jina Mata Beda Katebna Tiaagee ॥ Paarbarahama Ke Bhaee Anuraagee ॥
 

 

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As for Christianity, it's very misunderstood and if a Sikh is slating it >>then that Sikh has a lot to learn yet

Now this is something I will agree with you on. Christianity is misunderstood, Jesus never propagated being the son of god and so on.  

Edited by Kira

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Looking at the article Harjinder Singh Khalsa wrote to promote kundalini yoga as an aid to help a person concentrate on Gurbani.  He never mentions once how 3HO take up certain hand positions (mudras).  Here are some examples of 3HO practicing and promoting mudras.

In this link they promote mudras and tell people what are the effects of doing certain mudras.

 https://www.3ho.org/kundalini-yoga/mudra

Gyan Mudra as they call it, Stimulates knowledge, wisdom, receptivity, and calmness. But does it really?  Listen to what Gurbani has to say on the topic of mudras.

ਭਗਉਤੀ ਮੁਦ੍ਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ

bhagautee mudhraa man mohiaa maaeiaa ||1|| rahaau ||

The sacred mudras - ritualistic hand gestures - are made, but the mind remains enticed by Maya. ||1||Pause|| ang 1348

performing mudras doesn't stimulate knowledge or wisdom, instead it drives a person further into maya as Gurbani says.  What about receptivity and calmness?  Well maya broken down means a person is in duality and full of doubts.  Which means you are not receptive and surely not calm.   So there you have it 3HOer's mudras are not going to help anyone become more attuned, concentrate, or help a person in anyway to connect to Shabad Guru in meditation. 

Next we make analyze breathing techniques or postures.  Stay tuned for the next Guru given teachings on Kundalini yoga.

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