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5akaalsingh

The lost Sikh turban style

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1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Their is a difference in the types of jewellery and the pictures can be misleading.. As one can see the distinction.. Categorically 'mundara' of the type worn by many panjabi boys in the 90s were not considered good form, as they were in the mughal period a identifier of 'ghulams'. I was in anandpur sahib for 300 year anniversary of vaisakhi and staying in shaheed bagh amongst the akali nihangs when one of them whilst speaking to some guys from the UK one of whom was wearing 'mundara' educated him on the history. It was a fierce looking mahakaal but spoke as a parent does to a child. He did not reprimand him or chastise him simply told him that as a singh you are never a ghulam and it was these symbols  were historically ways of controlling people and outwardly reinforcing social hierarchy. He simply said why would you want to identify yourself as a slave 

That doesn't sound right. I've always heard that mundara are worn mainly by ascetic Saadhus/Yogis (hence it being looked down on), such as those similar to the ones Shiv Ji is depicted wearing. Many Devi Devte are depicted wearing earrings in both ancient and modern imagery. As far as I know men wearing earrings is an Indic tradition that predates Islam.

The kind of earrings that most boys wore in the 90s were not mundara anyhow, they were nantiyaan which are much smaller. Mundara are large hoop style earrings.

They might have been come to possibly represent those who are ghulaam by default, as those who wore earrings in the first place were the ones being forced into ghulaami. But many were also wearing turbans/other articles of clothing etc which are not considered a sign of ghulaami.

Other than that it sounds like a ploy to get people to stop wearing earrings.

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I have seen of old pics of nihangs wearing earings. 

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21 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

I have seen of old pics of nihangs wearing earings. 

 

Self edit.

Edited by MrDoaba

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6 hours ago, Singh123456777 said:

I have seen of old pics of nihangs wearing earings. 

strange since I thought there was a hukam to refrain from wearing jewellery which required piercings and also against tattoos ... besides wearing jewllery is self-adornment isn't it and we are supposed to be ready for action , girls have pulled out their hoops before going into a scrap ...

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If it is not a portrait of Guru ji then it is imagination. In the olden times, people had to travel far by foot to meet anyone. If someone said Guru ji dressed like a king, then it is possible the artist imagined the king complete with jewellery. 

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2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

strange since I thought there was a hukam to refrain from wearing jewellery which required piercings and also against tattoos ... besides wearing jewllery is self-adornment isn't it and we are supposed to be ready for action , girls have pulled out their hoops before going into a scrap ...

I'm sure piercings weren't strictly forbidden as they are now. There's quite a few pics of Singhs wearing them.

And I don't get the self-adornment thing. I don't see the biggie in wearing jewllery tbh. People bling up with kapre and all sorts. However I can understand removing it for sucham purposes etc.

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4 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

If it is not a portrait of Guru ji then it is imagination. In the olden times, people had to travel far by foot to meet anyone. If someone said Guru ji dressed like a king, then it is possible the artist imagined the king complete with jewellery. 

 

Agreed. It is one person's imagination.

I think it's a good idea overall to view some of these artists depictions with a healthy dose of scepticism. Especially considering some of their (Non-Sikh) backgrounds.

Don't forget that male artists generally gravitate towards the effeminate side of the spectrum. Art and painting aren't skills that come naturally to most blokes.

It's no surprise then that some of these artists might want to depict their subjects wearing things like earrings, and even ankle bracelets(!).

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13 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

That doesn't sound right. I've always heard that mundara are worn mainly by ascetic Saadhus/Yogis (hence it being looked down on), such as those similar to the ones Shiv Ji is depicted wearing. Many Devi Devte are depicted wearing earrings in both ancient and modern imagery. As far as I know men wearing earrings is an Indic tradition that predates Islam.

The kind of earrings that most boys wore in the 90s were not mundara anyhow, they were nantiyaan which are much smaller. Mundara are large hoop style earrings.

They might have been come to possibly represent those who are ghulaam by default, as those who wore earrings in the first place were the ones being forced into ghulaami. But many were also wearing turbans/other articles of clothing etc which are not considered a sign of ghulaami.

Other than that it sounds like a ploy to get people to stop wearing earrings.

Dude I don't particularly care whether people wear earrings or not as far I'm concerned it's their actions that matter. I'm just retelling the reasoning given and which I was present to witness 

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5 hours ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Dude I don't particularly care whether people wear earrings or not as far I'm concerned it's their actions that matter. I'm just retelling the reasoning given and which I was present to witness 

Good for you. I was simply providing a response to your post. I don't particularly care whether it was your reasoning or not. This is a public forum after all so it wasn't necessarily directed at you per se.

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4 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

Good for you. I was simply providing a response to your post. I don't particularly care whether it was your reasoning or not. This is a public forum after all so it wasn't necessarily directed at you per se.

Fair play bro 

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YOU GUYS ARE ABSOLUTELY CRAZY !

The Guru Shaiban and Bhagat Shaiban never adorned an earrring. And also I absolutely adorn the old puratan sikh dastar as I am doing some research on it myself.

Here are the facts... 

1. Guru Hargobind Singh Ji Maharaj to Guru Gobind Singh JI Maharajah all wore kalgi, beautiful attire and shoes, and kirpans (Miri and Piri) as well as the dumalla( maybe the modern ones that we have today..however I must research more on that topic)... However why did  the Guru Sahiban wore this... to define against the tragically and oppressive regime. However with that being said, they did not adorn any earrings here's why and with some proof...

2. FIRST OFF ! Have you guys actually looked at the dates of the old portraits. Most of them were done during the early 1800's to 1850's as Sikh Art thrived.There is not accurate portrait what so ever of the Gurus.... EXCEPT ONE !

The self-portrait of Guru Tegh Bahadur Shaib, which was commissioned by Shaista Khan the Governor of Nepal in 1668.

As the story goes, when Guru Sahib was about to leave the Bengal region, an older lady and the Governor of Bengal requested for the Guru not to leave as they would miss him very much. So the Governor instead inquired a artist to paint Guru Sahib. But the artist had one trouble... he couldn't draw Guru Sahib's beautiful and radiant face..so Guru sahib offered to help draw it out himself....the painting is attached below. Full history can be searched on some online sites... Please also do spend some times in hearing and reflectig on  Dr.Udhoke and other Sikh Historians as well !

3. According to Gurbani itself, changing or hurting the God made creation is forbidden. Just like your body came..it should go back. Also the Guru did not adore or have any love for worldly materials such as gold and diamonds.But some beautiful gifts were delivered to the Guru, to again remind the people of the true Sache Patshah

IT IS HOWEVER TRUE... That the earring only came to be a sign of nobility shortly after Mughal Rule..... Don't believe me check out Aurangzeb's portraits...That's why a lot of portraits that were made all shows earrings..

Any questions please contact or link me ... WJKK!  WJKF !

 

If anyone knows how to tie the puratan old Sikh turban please email me or cotnact me ASAP...Im dying to learn..

 

teg-bahadur-copy.jpg

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2 hours ago, amritpal732 said:

YOU GUYS ARE ABSOLUTELY CRAZY !

Excuse me sir, do you know where I can get earrings similar to the ones worn by the Gurus?

Many thanks.

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9 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

do you know where I can get earrings similar to the ones worn by the Gurus?

 

Easy geezer.

There's a line between banter and taking the p1$$.

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10 minutes ago, jashb said:

Easy geezer.

There's a line between banter and taking the p1$$.

Indeed there is. And I do not believe I have crossed such a line. Instead of highlighting a section of my comment which looks offensive on its own, why don't you read the whole thing for context, you'll see it's clearly humour.

Or is humour on its way to being added to the list of bajjar kurehats?

Edited by MrDoaba

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2 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

I do not believe I have crossed such a line.

On this occasion, I humbly disagree.

 

3 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

Instead of highlighting a section of my comment which looks offensive on its own, why don't you read the whole thing for context, you'll see it's clearly humour.

Lol, obviously I read the "whole thing". I only highlighted the part I'm referring to. It's only five words short for gods sake.

 

3 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

Or is humour on its way to being added to the list of bajjar kurehats?

Depends on who's the subject of the said "humour". I'd venture to say it's generally a good policy to leave any mention of Guru Sahiban out of jokes.

As for bajjar kurehats, what is or isn't one is no business of mine.

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      ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੇ ਜੀਵ ਕਾ ਵਿਛੋੜੇ ਅਰੁ ਮਿਲਾਪ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰੁ ਦੇਖਾਵਤੇ ਹੂਏ ਵਾਰ ਅੁਚਾਰਨ 
      ਕਰਤੇ ਹੈਣ॥ 
      ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮ ੩ ॥ 
      ਸੂਹੈ ਵੇਸਿ ਦੋਹਾਗਂੀ ਪਰ ਪਿਰੁ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ ॥ 
      ਛੁਟੜ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਮੇਸਰ ਸੇ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਹੈਣ ਸੂਹੇ ਵੇਸ ਵਿਸੋਣ ਮੇਣ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰਕੇ 
      (ਪਰੁ ਪਿਰ ਰਾਵਣ ਜਾਇ) ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਤੋਣ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰਨੇਣ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਪਿਰੁ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਮੋਹੀ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥ 
      (ਪਿਰੁ) ਪਤੀ ਜੋ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਸੋ (ਘਰਿ) ਅਪਨੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਮੈਣ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਦੂਜੇ ਭਾਵ ਮੈਣ 
      ਬੁਧੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਗਈ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਮਿਠਾ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਖਾਇਆ ਬਹੁ ਸਾਦਹੁ ਵਧਿਆ ਰੋਗੁ ॥ 
      (ਮਿਠਾ) ਭਾਵ ਸੁਖ ਰੂਪ ਕਰਕੈ ਬਿਸੋਣ ਕੋ ਭੋਗਾ ਥਾ ਬਿਸੇ ਰਸੋਣ ਸੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਰੋਗੁ ਵਧ 
      ਗਿਆ॥ 
      ਸੁਧੁ ਭਤਾਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਲਗਾ ਜਾਇ ਵਿਜੋਗੁ ॥ 
      ਸੁਧ ਭਰਤਾ ਜੋ ਹਰੀ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਹੈ ਫਿਰ ਜਨਮ ਕਰ ਵਿਛੋੜਾ ਹੀ ਲਾਗ ਜਾਤਾ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੁ ਪਲਟਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੀਗਾਰਿ ॥ 
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      ਹੈ॥ 
      ਆਗਿਆਕਾਰੀ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਆਪਿ ਮੇਲੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥ 
      ਸੋ ਆਗਾਕਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਅਰ ਵਹੁ ਆਪ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ ਮੇਲ ਲਈ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਤੇ ਓਹੁ ਸਦਾ 
      ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥ 
      ਨਾਨਕ ਪਿਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੁੋਹਾਗਂਿ ਨਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ 
      ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਹਤੇ ਹੈਣ ਜਿਸਨੇ ਹਰੀ ਰੂਪ ਸਜ਼ਚਾ ਭਰਤਾ ਪਾਯਾ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਜੀਵ ਰੂਪ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ 
      ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਸੁਹਾਗਂਿ ਹੈ॥੧॥    Like a woman separated from her husband goes to ravish (be ravished by) other men, the man who turns away from Parmesar goes to serve devis and devtas. She has forsaken the Husband (Waheguru) in her heart and has been ensnared with duja bhav. She thinks it to be sweet, and eats it with relish, increasing the disease. She has abandoned the pure Husband and suffers separation. The one who is faithful to the Guru does devotional worship of Waheguru and embellishes herself being in God. Enshrining the name of Waheguru in her heart she obtains bliss. Obedient, she is always in marital bliss and the Creator Himself has allowed her to meet Him. Guru Nanak Dev ji says that whoever has found the true Husband, she is the true holder of marital bliss.  
    • Fair enough. While I'm in agreement that idol worship is not part of Sikhi, I believe the tuks you have posted have been posted out of context here. The bani above is referring to those whose spritual mode of worship is only idol worship. Those who think that Parmeshwar resides only in the idol. Those who have no other forms of worship and still think they are saved by doing puja of a pathar/image. That's not really what's happening in the video (I don't think so anyway). Do bear in mind I'm not completely justifying what they're doing. I would need to know more details before I could personally comment what side of the fence this lands on. For example, if this is a regular thing or only done on a certain day i.e. Vishwakarma Day etc, what they believe about Vishwakarma and what he represents for them, and what their intentions are as well as what their sharda and bhaavna is, in performing this Aarti? And of course their maksad. As I always say, things are rarely black and white.  
    • Brother, the reason we (or at least, some Sikhs) do Aarti of Guru Sahib is because we worship Guru Sahib. The reason it's a "big deal" is because it's spiritual adultery. Even if it were accepted that you can do aarti of a saint or elder, they are not doing that. They are not doing Aarti of Lord Vishwakarma, but rather of a picture of Vishwakarma, which sets them up for the spiritual transgression of idol worship. Guru Nanak Dev ji on idol worship: ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Salok Mehalaa 1 || ਸਾਰੰਗ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ: (ਮਃ ੧) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੦  ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods. ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ ॥ You wash your stone gods and worship them. ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ ॥ You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.   ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ ॥ Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.   ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ ॥ Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat. ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ ॥ For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished. ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਨ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ ॥ Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying. ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥ The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1|| ਸਾਰੰਗ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੯) ਸ. (੧) ੧:੮ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨ 
      Raag Sarang Guru Nanak Dev   Guru Arjan Dev ji in Raag Bharo: ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Mehala 5 || ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਕਹਤੇ ਦੇਵ ॥ Those who call a stone their god ਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਵ ॥ Their service is useless. ਜੋ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਪਾਂਈ ਪਾਇ ॥ Those who fall at the feet of a stone god ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਘਾਲ ਅਜਾਂਈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ - their work is wasted in vain. ||1||   The people who do this (idol worship) will sink in the worldly ocean: ਕਬੀਰ ਪਾਹਨੁ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰੁ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜੈ ਸਭੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ Kabeer, someone sets up a stone idol and all the world worships it as the Lord. ਇਸ ਭਰਵਾਸੇ ਜੋ ਰਹੇ ਬੂਡੇ ਕਾਲੀ ਧਾਰ ॥੧੩੬॥ Those who hold to this belief will be drowned in the river of darkness. ||136|| ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੩੬):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੧ ਪੰ. ੧੫ 
      Salok Bhagat Kabir    
    • Like I said maybe they shouldn't have been doing Aarti, not in the Gurdwara anyway. But the picture in itself shouldn't be a problem. Mahapurkhs have been known to keep pictures of Devi Devte, they weren't allergic to imagery, especially imagery you could say that makes up "Dharam" as a whole. Maybe not the picture shown in the video, but such imagery was commonplace and is part of our heritage. As is evident from the small selection of pictures I posted. The level of Hinduphobia amongst our people borders on idiocy.
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