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The lost Sikh turban style

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1 hour ago, Balkaar said:

and since Guru Tegh Bahadur was known more for his bhagti than for any military feat (to my knowledge he undertook no campaigns against foes), this is how Sobha Singh imagined he must have looked. An honest mistake probably. 

He was involved in his father's (Guru Hargobind ji's) earliest battles as a young man. As jkv points out, his bravery and ability with a sword caused a name change, hence Tegh Bahadur (The brave sword). So he did take part in campaigns from a young age. The surviving images of him point at Guru ji's well built, regal warrior essence, so I think the modern Sobha Singh depiction is a complete re-imagining. 

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I am always in disbelief whenever someone says that Guru Gobind singh ji were short in height . Yogi bhajan said 10th guru were only 5feet 4 inches. and his hands reached till his knees when standing . I heard this from other people also.

I always thought puratan singhs were always 6 feet tall or more . Pathans are very tall , so if you gotta fight them, u have to be tall . Marathas were known to be short-heighted on the other hand. 

I am only 5'5" in height . Whenever I come across a well-built singh who is taller than 6 feet, I feel like he's from olden times lol 

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi

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This is photo of Guru Gobind Singh ji in Hazur sahib . It looks quite different from their standard pics, no ? also that kalgi though looks nothing of the sort we see in today's pics . also turbans not covering ear

 

350th-birth-anniversary-celebrations-of-Guru-Gobind-Singh-in-Patna.jpg

Edited by AjeetSinghPunjabi
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38 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I am always in disbelief whenever someone says that Guru Gobind singh ji were short in height . Yogi bhajan said 10th guru were only 5feet 4 inches. and his hands reached till his knees when standing . I heard this from other people also.

I always thought puratan singhs were always 6 feet tall or more . Pathans are very tall , so if you gotta fight them, u have to be tall . Marathas were known to be short-heighted on the other hand. 

I am only 5'5" in height . Whenever I come across a well-built singh who is taller than 6 feet, I feel like he's from olden times lol 

genetically speaking sons are always taller than their fathers (studies indicate average of 5cm) , so being the grandson of Guru Har Gobind ji I would imagine him to be fairly tall and having seen his swords and arms that indicates it too. I would put everything Yogi Harbhajan in to the bin , he had total disrespect of Guru Sahiban and has openly said that Guru Pita ji didn't know what he was doing . 

The statement about Guru Pita ji's arms was lifted from those who have had partak darshan and sakhis .

Mai Bhago was a six footer as well ...My Mother was telling me as she had kirpa of going to Nanded to do darshan . 

Dairy makes people tall -Dutch are major dairy eaters and they are the tallest country in Europe .

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2 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I am always in disbelief whenever someone says that Guru Gobind singh ji were short in height . Yogi bhajan said 10th guru were only 5feet 4 inches. and his hands reached till his knees when standing . I heard this from other people also.

I always thought puratan singhs were always 6 feet tall or more . Pathans are very tall , so if you gotta fight them, u have to be tall . Marathas were known to be short-heighted on the other hand. 

I am only 5'5" in height . Whenever I come across a well-built singh who is taller than 6 feet, I feel like he's from olden times lol 

The 6th guru was over 7 feet. The 9th guru who was the 6th gurus son would be at least 6 feet. The 10th guru would have to be at least 6 feet if not more if you look at genetics. It's not possible for the grandfather to be 7 feet or higher and the grandson being 5 foot four

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12 hours ago, Singh123456777 said:

The 6th guru was over 7 feet. The 9th guru who was the 6th gurus son would be at least 6 feet. The 10th guru would have to be at least 6 feet if not more if you look at genetics. It's not possible for the grandfather to be 7 feet or higher and the grandson being 5 foot four

Genetics certainly plays a role. I'm told my paternal grandfather was 6ft 6. My mum says my father was 5ft 5 yet I was just under 6ft 3 at my peak, but I'm now just over 6ft due to a none permanent back injury that placed a lot of stress on my spine for a long time. I guess I shrunk, lol. It's a lottery at times. Pertaining to Dasme Paatshah, most who've had darshan claim they are no less than 6ft but certainly nowhere near the height of Guru Hargobind Sahib. Ultimately it's irrelevant as their legacy is not to be found in their height. Like skin tone, we Punjabis love to obsesss over height. 

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On 2/26/2017 at 6:43 AM, Singh123456777 said:

Seli topi of Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj 

IMG_7342.PNG

Some of the sources I have speak of a semi (silk) thread. Not being a doubting Thomas, but other than Giani Gian Singh Nirmala- I believe- no other scholar mentions any topis. Guru Nanak Dev Ji, obviously, dressed as per the cultures of the regions he traveled. 

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On 2/27/2017 at 5:29 AM, Balkaar said:

The Guru Sahibaan may have worn earrings, I don't know enough about Sikh art to say and I don't really believe its a big deal. 

But art isn't always a mirror of the truth, rather a reflection of the artist. There is no certainty that the Gurus commissioned these paintings of themselves, or that they were even present as subjects for the painter. How else does one explain all the portrayals of the same Guru which look completely different from one another? As OP has said, there is not enough consistency in these images for us to come to a conclusion about this. Every one of these paintings was painted well after the decease of the Gurus they depict, as well as by Pahari Hindu masters. Just as European artists are always representing Christ as a white guy, why wouldn't a Hindu or Mughal painter depict Guru Sahib in the manner of a Hindu Raja? Accuracy clearly wasn't the intention of these artists - that painting of Akali Phoola Singh posted earlier shows him wearing red garments when we know for a fact that Akalis were forbidden from wearing red as per puraatan rehtinamaay. 

Some of these pictures were commissioned by disciples, the Baba Bidhi Chand Dal still has one commissioned by their namesake which depicts the sixth master. I think it has already been posted on this thread.

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On 2/26/2017 at 6:26 AM, Singh123456777 said:

The first pic is a pic of Sri Guru gobind singh ji maharaj in his youth( notice the earrings)

Second pic is of Akali Baba Phula Singh(again notice the earrings)

Third pic is of Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji Maharaj(earrings!!!)

Fourth pic is of Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Maharaj(again earrings!!!)

The next two pictures are of Sri Guru Har Gobind Sahib Maharaj which are in Baba Atal Rai Gurduwara(earrings on most of the Sikhs)

The second to last picture is a picture that somebody made which depicts Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj meeting Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj(Notice that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj is wearing earrings and Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj wearing a seli topi which was worn from the 1st Guru up until the 6th Guru)

And the last picture is of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj(earrings galore!!)

Some of these pics are contemporary pics that were made at the times of the gurus such as the Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji Maharaj picture.

All the credit goes to Bhagat Singh artist who found this information

Satpal Singh, a connoisseur of such art, informed me that the sixth picture is one of Guru Arjan Dev Ji. This was a few years back...

Edited by 13Mirch

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1 hour ago, 13Mirch said:

Satpal Singh, a connoisseur of such art, informed me that the sixth picture is one of Guru Arjan Dev Ji. This was a few years back...

Thank you for the correction 🙂

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1 hour ago, 13Mirch said:

Satpal Singh, a connoisseur of such art, informed me that the sixth picture is one of Guru Arjan Dev Ji. This was a few years back...

Actually we both are wrong. I just looked at the picture using zoom and it's written that it's sri Guru ram das Ji maharaj. The person who is putting the tika on guru sahib is sri Guru amar das Sahib Ji.

IMG_7392.PNG

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1 hour ago, Singh123456777 said:

Actually we both are wrong. I just looked at the picture using zoom and it's written that it's sri Guru ram das Ji maharaj. The person who is putting the tika on guru sahib is sri Guru amar das Sahib Ji.

IMG_7392.PNG

It might have been Guru Ramdass Ji, my memory is fuzzy but thank you for the clarification.

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On 2/25/2017 at 9:26 AM, Singh123456777 said:

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj wearing a seli topi which was worn from the 1st Guru up until the 6th Guru

Can you please provide me with a source for this claim? Im genuinely curious 

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Their is a difference in the types of jewellery and the pictures can be misleading.. As one can see the distinction.. Categorically 'mundara' of the type worn by many panjabi boys in the 90s were not considered good form, as they were in the mughal period a identifier of 'ghulams'. I was in anandpur sahib for 300 year anniversary of vaisakhi and staying in shaheed bagh amongst the akali nihangs when one of them whilst speaking to some guys from the UK one of whom was wearing 'mundara' educated him on the history. It was a fierce looking mahakaal but spoke as a parent does to a child. He did not reprimand him or chastise him simply told him that as a singh you are never a ghulam and it was these symbols  were historically ways of controlling people and outwardly reinforcing social hierarchy. He simply said why would you want to identify yourself as a slave 

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3 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

Can you please provide me with a source for this claim? Im genuinely curious 

 

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